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View Full Version : Pactio in the Nasuverse, Open Idea/Discussion thread



Prince Charon
September 18th, 2011, 02:39 PM
First, since not everyone is that into Negima, here's the Negima wiki article on the Pactio (http://negima.wikia.com/wiki/Pactio).

The short version:


Pactio is a magical contract used by many mages in Negima. The word is based on the Latin word "pactio", the action of making a "pactum" or "agreement". The word 'pactio' is also fairly often called a "provisional contract." Pactios can be created with any magic user, although not all magic users can create a magica circle. The partner with whom the pactio is formed attain abilities related to their personalities. In the remake series, Negima!? (http://negima.wikia.com/wiki/Negima!%3F), the formation is known as a "neo-pactio."

So, in other settings, with other magic systems, the pactio, or an equivalent thereof, would be mechanically different, if it would be possible at all, and would change the setting to varying degrees.

In the Nasuverse, a pactio would probably be a variant on the process of creating a living, human familiar (http://tatari.byethost33.com/fuyuki/magic.htm#Familiars), and might involve opening any magic circuits the Minister/Ministra has. Given the nature of Nasuverse magic, it might not be all that widespread, unless it has some means of bypassing the 'peak magic' limits, or there's a good chance of getting an Ala Alba level partner out of it.

Let's say its something Zelretch came up with, derived from the Kaleidostick. The circle and ceremony connect you to the Mystic Code that creates the pactios (and paired Mystic Codes in the form of the pactio cards), which draws power from other worlds, thus bypassing the peak mana problem, and explaining why magi are so inclined to use it, despite the drawbacks: it was created after Zel read the Negima manga (first published in 2003, so, just before the Fifth Holy Grail War), and the Mystic Code has both a sense of humour, and a strong belief in the Powers of Love and Friendship (it makes sense, given how weird the Kaleidostick is; as for why he'd do this, this is a Zelretch who is really that concerned about the peak mana problem... or maybe there's something coming that he's even more worried about). Thus, if you don't care about your partner, you really don't get much more prana out of it than you put in, and if you do care, you get rather a lot. Likewise, the strength of you belief in the Power of Love and the Power of Friendship could grant a bonus or penalty. Also, the decision of who is the Magister/Magistra, and who the Minister/Ministra, is up to the MC, which I'm thinking of calling Chamo (http://negima.wikia.com/wiki/Chamo). Shirou has a Reality Marble, and thus is usually the Magister despite his few and low quality magic circuits, unless he makes a pactio with someone who also has a RM and is more powerful (Sacchin could go either way, in that case, considering the WTF?! levels of both their situations), has a Marble Phantasm, or possess True Magic. This is especially ironic because Shirou is much more of a front-line fighter, personality-wise, than some of his potential Ministrae are.

Most likely, Shirou's Ministrae would have Artifacts, which would be swords (or other items compatable with Unlimited Blade Works) from other worlds, that are especially fitting for them. In general, Artifacts tend to be either copied or summoned from their dimentions of origin, hence being fairly rare. If/when Shirou pactios with Saber (which may require Rin teaching him how), she would at least get a copy of Avalon (after all, its right there, so Chamo doesn't need to go hunting for it), and might also get one of more of the other significant items she owned in life, that she didn't have on her when summoned.

When the Magister/a and Minister/a care about each other to different degrees, and have differing levels of belief in the Powers, the one with more prana can still transfer it to the one with less, which can lead to the Minister being able to control the flow of prana to the Magister, instead of the other way around (even though the Magister/a can activate or cancel the Minister/a's use of the card, s/he can only control the flow of prana if s/he is the one with more of it; water flows downhill). If Sakura made a pactio with Shinji, they'd be a fairly typical Magistra and Minister, powerwise: Shinji gets nothing she doesn't give him, because she cares about him, but he cares nothing for her. However, he'd be a pretty crappy Minister, all told, thanks to his personality. If Rin made a contract with Kotomine, neither would get much out of it, as they really don't care for each other, or believe in those Powers (well, Rin sort of does, a little, but she's tried to kill that part of her self).

Pactio pairs/groups where each cares about the other work out much better, of course. Shirou, Rin, and Saber from something like the UBW Good End would be bloody terrifying as a Magister and Ministrae. Shirou, Sakura, and Rider from something like the HF True End, even more so, thanks to the prana boost Sakura has in that route. Likewise, Bazett and Lancer would be a hell of a pair, and might be able to avoid getting pwn'd by Kotomine (really, pactioing with your Servant is just good sense). So, there is now a clear and somewhat quantifiable benefit to a magus being a nice person.

Let me repeat that: There is now a clear and somewhat quantifiable benefit to a magus being a nice person.

That could change magi culture quite a bit, no?

Mike1984
September 18th, 2011, 03:04 PM
Well, if you made it worthwhile for magi to be nice people in the past, it would change a hell of a lot. I'm not sure it would make much difference now.

Although, if you followed HF True, would Sakura be the Magister or Ministra? After all, she is the one with the infinite prana....

burningclaw2
September 18th, 2011, 03:09 PM
The artifact actually depends on the ministra, not the magister. Sakura might get something akin to Nodoka's Diarium Ejus artifact. Powerful and dangerous if you know how to use it, but the wielder tends to be morale enough not to break it out for every little thing.

Dark Descent
September 18th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Problem is, if you decide to implement one detail from the Negimaverse into the Nasuverse, chances are, the Nasu Magi are likely going to be extremely curious as to what other kind of esoteric magic is available, and where Zelretch had found it. Given that the changes are implemented around 800 years in the past of the verse, Negima magic will most likely be discovered, and used more frequently, or downright replacing the Nasu magic, due to how ridiculously powerful the higher end magi can be. You'd have to consider every element of Negima, and decide which parts of the magic systems you'd like to implement.

nununu
September 18th, 2011, 03:15 PM
Pactio would be more in line with Rin's and Shirou's arrangement in UBW rather than 'human familiar'; Rin boosting Shirou enough to allow him to use UBW.

Shirou wouldn't make much of a Magistra, with his low output, though he'd be an excellent Ministra due to his exotic ability. Either Rin or Sakura would work well as Magistra for him; Rin as a combat-able partner and Sakura as a Magistra who could grant a bigger boost.

For added fun, Shirou gets Excalibur as his Pactio Artifact~

burningclaw2
September 18th, 2011, 03:20 PM
Zelretch shall blame television.

shiningphoenix
September 18th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Well, if you made it worthwhile for magi to be nice people in the past, it would change a hell of a lot.
You make an excellent point here.


Although, if you followed HF True, would Sakura be the Magister or Ministra? After all, she is the one with the infinite prana....

Is there any reason not to do it reciprocally (presuming both sides have significant prana supplies)? More artifacts, after all.

Mike1984
September 18th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Is there any reason not to do it reciprocally (presuming both sides have significant prana supplies)? More artifacts, after all.

Well, if that could work....

Dark Descent
September 18th, 2011, 03:33 PM
Shirou would most realistically get something along the lines of Rakan's artifact, whatever it was called again :/

Heroslayer
September 18th, 2011, 03:50 PM
Hero of a Thousand Faces, I think.

Lianru
September 18th, 2011, 04:55 PM
Nasuverse pactios? Excellent?
But who would draw them?

Garlak
September 18th, 2011, 05:32 PM
I haven't been very vocal or visible about these Pactio threads of yours, except for posting in one of them, but let me say that this idea greatly amuses me.


Especially the "being good has actual benefits; being a dick has penalties" part. That's just fucking hilarious and perfect.

eddyak
September 18th, 2011, 08:23 PM
Zelretch
I thought it was a good idea, right up until you said this.

reborn214
September 18th, 2011, 08:40 PM
Meh, Zeltrach can always be changed to something like crackpot magus.
For example Waver Velvet wants to research how the bonds between people can effect magic inspired by Alexander's great reality marble. After Waver disassembles the grail system and studies the master-servant system he tries applying it to his apprentices after all who wouldn't want to be able to teleport across the world, and realizes that it causes X affect. Cue the realization that the more you love someone the stronger the servant system bond goes and the greater the effects. Mystic codes can be improved by the bond etc....

Xamusel
September 18th, 2011, 08:43 PM
Actually, reborn, that's a good idea. I might have to try something like that at some point.

burningclaw2
September 18th, 2011, 08:55 PM
Pure True Love shall create a weapon of doom an destruction unlike any before seen, bwahahahahahahaha!!!!...Sakura shall 'befriend' you if you displease her, since her artifact shall be raising heart.

nununu
September 18th, 2011, 08:58 PM
Pure True Love shall create a weapon of doom an destruction unlike any before seen, bwahahahahahahaha!!!!...Sakura shall 'befriend' you if you displease her, since her artifact shall be raising heart.

Sakura does not strike me as someone who would 'befriend' her adversaries.

burningclaw2
September 18th, 2011, 09:32 PM
She's a kind and lovable young woman 'befriending' with city destroying firepower is in her blood.

amado
September 18th, 2011, 11:06 PM
well how about we go like this to bridge both of them(without having to do the whole zelretch thing):
the earth of nasuverse is actually jupiter/saturn/any planet and vice versa for both of them(it would look diff from their point of view).

negi's plan about finding a new place for the magical beings leads him to the nasuverse world.

burningclaw2
September 18th, 2011, 11:08 PM
Negi then fights Gil and punches him in the face ^^

Prince Charon
September 18th, 2011, 11:23 PM
Well, if you made it worthwhile for magi to be nice people in the past, it would change a hell of a lot. I'm not sure it would make much difference now.

Although, if you followed HF True, would Sakura be the Magister or Ministra? After all, she is the one with the infinite prana....
I rather think Sakura wouldn't mind being Shirou's Ministra (Sakura: Mmm, Goshujiin-sama). Besides, its not just a matter of power, its also a matter of abilities. Shirou is the one with a Reality Marble, after all.

Also, there's some people here that need to reread the OP: the amount of power you get out of the Pactio is in no way dependent on the amount of power you have, as this is not quite the same as the Negimaverse system.

shiningphoenix
September 18th, 2011, 11:28 PM
Negi then fights Gil and punches him in the face ^^
With lightning. And darkness.

burningclaw2
September 18th, 2011, 11:42 PM
With lightning. And darkness.Gil's face shall forever be ruined

lethum
September 19th, 2011, 12:13 AM
Sorry, darkness and lighting aren't enough to do much to the face of an ego that rejected all the evils of mankind. Eva might, though./easyModoTroll

amado
September 19th, 2011, 12:55 AM
Sorry, darkness and lighting aren't enough to do much to the face of an ego that rejected all the evils of mankind. Eva might, though./easyModoTroll

yeah. a fight between those two would be epic!

Ergast
September 19th, 2011, 03:30 AM
I'll just nitpick something.

Who is the magister and the minister/ministra doesn't depend on skills or raw power, but it is a decision made before the pactio is done. By example, in Negima, when the princess Theodore made a (very) temporal pactio with Negi, she was the magister even when Negi is way stronger in every field than her, except their pool of magic, where Negi was still stronger. And the same with Konoka (in fact, her pool of magic is greater than Negi's one when they made the pactio, and she is still the ministra)

But this isn't a theory of mine. The author said it in some of his notes, it depends on the runes used when the pactio is done. This lets both parts of the pactio be at the same time minister and magister, if they wished (though the only real advantage would be the teleport and the artifact if used at the same time). Although this last sentence is a theory of mine.

Besides that, this idea has potential.

VelspertheCat
September 19th, 2011, 03:53 AM
Who gets the orbital cat themed laser cannon? I vote we give it to Sakura so she can finally have revenge against all her naysayers in forums everywhere.

Mike1984
September 19th, 2011, 04:37 AM
I rather think Sakura wouldn't mind being Shirou's Ministra (Sakura: Mmm, Goshujiin-sama). Besides, its not just a matter of power, its also a matter of abilities. Shirou is the one with a Reality Marble, after all.

No, of course she wouldn't mind (and that article even states that Magisters and Ministras often marry), but she could provide him with a lot more prana than he could provide her with, especially post-HF.

Although, are the Magisters generally considered "above" the Ministra (with the Ministra expected to "obey" them), or are they equals?

Techlet
September 19th, 2011, 04:55 AM
Who gets the orbital cat themed laser cannon? I vote we give it to Sakura so she can finally have revenge against all her naysayers in forums everywhere.

Beams are so unisex.

VelspertheCat
September 19th, 2011, 04:56 AM
She'll rain Neco Arcs down from the skies. That'll show them! That'll show them all! Hahahaha!

shiningphoenix
September 19th, 2011, 07:33 AM
Can someone be several people's Ministra if everyone agrees?

Prince Charon
September 19th, 2011, 07:51 AM
I'll just nitpick something.

Who is the magister and the minister/ministra doesn't depend on skills or raw power, but it is a decision made before the pactio is done.
Again, this is not an exact copy of the Negima system. Its close, but there are differences.

Mind you, two people could decide in advance who got to be on top, and Chamo (the Mystic Code, not the talking ermine he's named for) would take than into consideration, but he might not agree.

Silly thought: depending on how much of ermine-Chamo's personality is in MC-Chamo, after the pactio is performed, any women involved might find their panties missing... if they were wearing them in the first place. Possibly bras, too, but I don't recall if ermine-Chamo ever showed an interest in bras.

Ergast
September 19th, 2011, 10:25 AM
Yes, he did. It's just that is easier to get access to panties in the Akamatsu verse (almost always every female character is wearing skirts or (more probably) mini-skirts)

In fact, the first scene with Chamo he was stealing panties and bras, and he managed to unbutton Asuna's shirt before she punched him to the floor.

nununu
September 19th, 2011, 11:58 AM
Can someone be several people's Ministra if everyone agrees?

Not sure if it only applies because it's the trial version, but Setsuna is Ministra to two.

Dark Descent
September 19th, 2011, 09:11 PM
Magistras can be the Ministras of others. Ministras can be the Magistras of others. You can be a Magistra to an unlimited amount of people, and you can be a Ministra to many others as well.

Lots and lots of kissing.

Lianru
September 19th, 2011, 09:14 PM
^It depends.
People don't think Nagi kissed anyone. Kissing's just the easiest way (according to Chamo​).

nununu
September 19th, 2011, 09:15 PM
What? Chamo is a perfectly trustworthy fey creature.

Heroslayer
September 19th, 2011, 09:16 PM
Not to mention, that isn't a full contract yet... right?

I mean, it's a provisional contract. We still haven't really seen what a 'normal' contract does or entails. The thing about them marrying probably has more to do with the full contract in my mind.

shiningphoenix
September 19th, 2011, 09:18 PM
So, is there any good reason not to be both magistra and ministra to everyone you trust?

Heroslayer
September 19th, 2011, 09:39 PM
I don't really see the issue. I mean, that seems to be the way Negi is operating. Though it also has to do with Magical energy. An average mage probably can't handle several Ministra pulling magical energy from them.

Prince Charon
September 19th, 2011, 09:45 PM
Yes, he did. It's just that is easier to get access to panties in the Akamatsu verse (almost always every female character is wearing skirts or (more probably) mini-skirts)

In fact, the first scene with Chamo he was stealing panties and bras, and he managed to unbutton Asuna's shirt before she punched him to the floor.
OK, so, all her underwear, not just her panties. I wonder if Shirou would notice Rin or Sakura having a little more... 'bounce in her step' than she did before the kiss.


So, is there any good reason not to be both magistra and ministra to everyone you trust?
That's a good question. For the Negimaverse, the only one I can think of is not everyone you trust might be powerful enough to be a Magister, or to support more than one Ministra, but it may be something in chapters I haven't read, yet.

For just this thread, it depends on whether Chamo feels like letting you be Magister and Minister to the same person, but otherwise, there's no good reason. The only absolute limit is that the Magister must already have opened their magic circuits, or have a substitute, like Shirou did (IOW, Shinji can never be a Magister). I didn't mention that in the OP, as I thought it went without saying. Maybe it does.

Mike1984
September 20th, 2011, 04:34 AM
OK, so, all her underwear, not just her panties. I wonder if Shirou would notice Rin or Sakura having a little more... 'bounce in her step' than she did before the kiss.

Heh, lol.

Well, with Sakura, I'd say it would probably be pretty obvious, given how big she is. Rin just might get away with it.

Although, didn't you say that he has to actually remove their tops to get at the bra...?

Ergast
September 20th, 2011, 06:54 AM
OK, so, all her underwear, not just her panties. I wonder if Shirou would notice Rin or Sakura having a little more... 'bounce in her step' than she did before the kiss.

I like where this is going, so tell me more :cool:



That's a good question. For the Negimaverse, the only one I can think of is not everyone you trust might be powerful enough to be a Magister, or to support more than one Ministra, but it may be something in chapters I haven't read, yet.

For just this thread, it depends on whether Chamo feels like letting you be Magister and Minister to the same person, but otherwise, there's no good reason. The only absolute limit is that the Magister must already have opened their magic circuits, or have a substitute, like Shirou did (IOW, Shinji can never be a Magister). I didn't mention that in the OP, as I thought it went without saying. Maybe it does.

In the manga, both Nagi and Negi have multiple ministers. You don't need to give them energy for the pactio to be useful. The artifact (if you gain one, you can just gain a conexion with the magister but not the artifact) is usually a very good advantage to do the pactio even if you don't give energy to your minister.

Negi, before the magic world saga, could support at the same time 4 ministras and shoot 199 magic arrows before collapsing... at the beggining of his training. At the end he would probably fight at half his power. And then it comes the magic world saga.

So, in this setting, by example, Shirou could be Rin's magister, and with the pactio she could win the artifact Jewelled sword Zelretch or the Kaleidoruby, and Rin could be Shirou's magister, and he could win *insert artifact here*. And then, in a fight, Rin could empower Shirou with her energy, as she has way more prana than him.

Prince Charon
September 20th, 2011, 07:04 AM
Heh, lol.

Well, with Sakura, I'd say it would probably be pretty obvious, given how big she is. Rin just might get away with it.
Luckily for Shirou, Sakura's the one least likely to punch him for noticing. Rin, OTOH, is the one with the shortest skirt. If the wind picks up... ;)


Although, didn't you say that he has to actually remove their tops to get at the bra...?
I don't think I did, but in Negima, sure. In this, he just teleports it away... but only if the girl is pretty enough, and has an old enough body.

Hmm, maybe Ilya's Pactio lets her look her age?

Mike1984
September 20th, 2011, 07:14 AM
So, in this setting, by example, Shirou could be Rin's magister, and with the pactio she could win the artifact Jewelled sword Zelretch or the Kaleidoruby, and Rin could be Shirou's magister, and he could win *insert artifact here*. And then, in a fight, Rin could empower Shirou with her energy, as she has way more prana than him.

Yeah, true, I guess that makes sense. And, of course, the same would apply to Sakura.


Luckily for Shirou, Sakura's the one least likely to punch him for noticing.

Yeah, Sakura is more likely to blush furiously and then disappear into her own dreamworld at the thought of her Sempai noticing that she's not wearing anything under her top....


Rin, OTOH, is the one with the shortest skirt. If the wind picks up... ;)

Heh, yeah, lol.


I don't think I did, but in Negima, sure.

I see....


In this, he just teleports it away... but only if the girl is pretty enough, and has an old enough body.

Eh, what do you mean?

I mean, surely, if the girl is pretty enough, he'd want to remove the shirt too....+

Lianru
September 20th, 2011, 07:18 AM
Well, chamo is the underwear demon.
His dream is to bathe in panties.

Ergast
September 20th, 2011, 07:50 AM
Yeah, true, I guess that makes sense. And, of course, the same would apply to Sakura.

Yeah. I just used Rin because:

a) She is still my favorite girl in FSN

and

b) Her empowering Shirou is canon in the novel in an actual fight.



Yeah, Sakura is more likely to blush furiously and then disappear into her own dreamworld at the thought of her Sempai noticing that she's not wearing anything under her top....

Naughty, naughty, Sakura-cha~~n!




Rin, OTOH, is the one with the shortest skirt. If the wind picks up...
Heh, yeah, lol.


*Insert joke about "Improve wearing Zettai Ryouiki" perk here*



I don't think I did, but in Negima, sure.
I see....

Probably he just need an opening to unzip the bra. In the scene I described, Asuna had the shirt under the skirt (I'm not sure if it's said like this in english, so sorry if I said something confusing), so the only posibility was for him to unbutton part of his shirt. With a t-shirt over the skirt, on the other hand, he probably wouldn't need to remove the top.




Eh, what do you mean?

I mean, surely, if the girl is pretty enough, he'd want to remove the shirt too....+

In his own words, he is a pervert who likes to bath in panties and love the underwear of all the pretty girls of the world. While he likes to take a peep at nude girls, he didn't steal any clothes except underwear. And he can track girls by the underwear at 10 kms (used without the rule of funny working at full gas and for actually something serious in the manga... with hilarious results)

Prince Charon
September 20th, 2011, 02:26 PM
In his own words, he is a pervert who likes to bath in panties and love the underwear of all the pretty girls of the world. While he likes to take a peep at nude girls, he didn't steal any clothes except underwear. And he can track girls by the underwear at 10 kms (used without the rule of funny working at full gas and for actually something serious in the manga... with hilarious results)
Which is why Negi's girls still bother to wear underwear, even though Chamo keeps stealing it: just in case Negi needs to use Chamo to find them in a hurry.

burningclaw2
September 20th, 2011, 02:33 PM
The thought of Shirou having a familiar like chamo is hilarious

Ergast
September 20th, 2011, 03:42 PM
Which is why Negi's girls still bother to wear underwear, even though Chamo keeps stealing it: just in case Negi needs to use Chamo to find them in a hurry.

...

Yes, that works, even if he could just use the pactio cards.

After all, magic can be intercepted, Chamo's nose on the other hand, can't.

shiningphoenix
September 20th, 2011, 03:46 PM
After all, magic can be intercepted, Chamo's nose on the other hand, can't.
Insane porn logic senses tingling...

Larekko12
September 20th, 2011, 04:52 PM
Can't you magically interfere with scent tracking or use scrying to figure out what they are using to track you and get rid of it?

nununu
September 20th, 2011, 04:53 PM
Can't you magically interfere with scent tracking or use scrying to figure out what they are using to track you and get rid of it?
>Applying logic to Chamo

:D

burningclaw2
September 20th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Chamo comes with an undetectable panty radar

Larekko12
September 20th, 2011, 06:11 PM
Then just kill chamo after knowing about that trick or redress your prisoner in a electroshock bondage that tightens and shocks in the prescence of magic not yoiur own so that the hero actually hurts the Damsel as he get ever closer to attempting to rescue her.

VelspertheCat
September 20th, 2011, 06:15 PM
You're an odd duck, bro.

Lianru
September 20th, 2011, 06:17 PM
Yes, he is.

shiningphoenix
September 20th, 2011, 06:24 PM
redress your prisoner in a electroshock bondage that tightens and shocks in the prescence of magic not yoiur own so that the hero actually hurts the Damsel as he get ever closer to attempting to rescue her.
http://7.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/1046/04-015.0/compressed/rosario_vampire_ii_15_31.jpg

Larekko12
September 20th, 2011, 06:35 PM
If the damsels a masochist you can have it set up to kill memories and experience like that collar Lucien uses on the hero in Fable 2.

Heroslayer
September 20th, 2011, 06:40 PM
Yeah, that's basically killing them or maiming them metaphysically. Let's just say that doing that to a person is going to get you a bit more than beat up by the Hero.

burningclaw2
September 20th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Shining what manga was that from

shiningphoenix
September 20th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Rosario + Vampire II

Tsukune is wielding the legendary magical whip "Belmont" (based on the Vampire Killer from Castlevania), which channels his power into attacks. There is a chain connection him to Ruby, which conveys some of the power from him to her in the form of an electric shock whenever he swings the whip.

lethum
September 20th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Rosario + Vampire, Part II.

I think. I stopped reading at around chapter 14 of the second season of the manga, and began to keep up by hearsay.

Prince Charon
September 21st, 2011, 10:16 PM
If Tohno Shiki became Arcueid's Minister, what Artifact and costume would he get?

What might Herakles gain from being Ilya's Minister? IIRC, he does seem to have some affection for her, despite her treatment of him.

reborn214
September 21st, 2011, 10:24 PM
Shiki would get a suit and blindfolds, and his weapon would be an anti demon blade.

I don't know about Herkales

If you write it will it be Fate with no Tsukhime, Tsukihime with no Fate, or some mixture of the two casts

Prince Charon
September 21st, 2011, 10:43 PM
If you write it will it be Fate with no Tsukhime, Tsukihime with no Fate, or some mixture of the two casts
The reason its posted as an open idea, that is to say, one available to whatever writer wants it, is that while I'm pretty good at coming up with a plot line, I'm terribly slow when trying to turn the plotline into a story.

IMHO, there aren't enough Shirou/Sacchin or 'Sacchin in Shirou's harem' fics.

EDIT: In fact, I don't think I've seen any.

Ergast
September 22nd, 2011, 05:03 AM
Isn't it sad, Sacchin?

Jokes aside, I can see Herakles gaining an artifact that makes him inmune to mental polution (included madness)

About Shiki... he would gain an armor that gives him quick regeneration (and with quick regeneration, I mean passive Avalon levels regeneration, aa in what Shirou has, usually)

Prince Charon
September 22nd, 2011, 08:12 AM
Isn't it sad, Sacchin?

Jokes aside, I can see Herakles gaining an artifact that makes him inmune to mental polution (included madness)

About Shiki... he would gain an armor that gives him quick regeneration (and with quick regeneration, I mean passive Avalon levels regeneration, aa in what Shirou has, usually)
Thinking about it, both of those are damn scary, given the specific circumstances of the characters receiving them.

Any thoughts on how Sacchin might meet Shirou? One thought I had was that she becomes a participant in the Fifth War, perhaps replacing the unseen Master of Caster, or that Sion replaces the unseen Master, and Sacchin goes as her assistant (and in this TL, Ministra).

EDIT: Depending on the specific Master and Servant, its possible for the pactio to produce enough prana to support that Servant, after the HGW is over. Shirou could easily support a pactio'd Saber after the Fate route, for example.

A though on Sion: its clear in canon that purple-haired girls like Shirou.:D

Ergast
September 23rd, 2011, 06:52 AM
Well, take into account that, the thing about Illya is that she controls Herc, so the artifact should have something like that. And Herk's problem in his legend was his fits of madness. What he desires is control, if you ask me.

And about Shiki, his desire is to life to his fullest. A way to relate his psyche to the artifact is give something that kept him healthy.

About Sacchin and Sion... Isn't nice how the original Master of Caster works when you want to introduce a new Master in the war?


EDIT: Depending on the specific Master and Servant, its possible for the pactio to produce enough prana to support that Servant, after the HGW is over. Shirou could easily support a pactio'd Saber after the Fate route, for example.

Well, it's a way to kept Servants here, sure. The only thing I have against that is that I loved the bittersweet ending of Fate. What means that I'm just complaining because I can XD


A though on Sion: its clear in canon that girls like Shirou.:D

Fix'd for accuracy

Prince Charon
September 24th, 2011, 09:12 AM
What Heroic Spirit would be a good match for Sion, if she doesn't have a catalyst, and if she did get a catalyst, who would she be likely to choose?

Medea is interesting, but not really the sanest girl around, no?

EDIT: Weird thought: Berserker Medea? Not for this thread, I think, but a possibility somewhere else.

amado
September 24th, 2011, 10:07 AM
berserker medea would be next to useless. if rin with her kung-fu could beat her easily, she'd just be an average threat to the protags.

dunno about sion but since caster seat is the only open one(maybe assassin too but depends if zouken will make a move in the fic) maybe pick someone who's dead and powerful in the negima verse. if there is someone legendary who did die in there...

or you can go for TOHSAKA!caster from the fic by pata or kratos.

Prince Charon
September 24th, 2011, 01:26 PM
Had a disturbing thought: We know from EMIYA that the Grail can summon heroes from the future, and thanks to the Einzberns in the Third War, it can summon Anti-Heroes and probably villains. This leads to the thought of Avenger Dark Sakura (post-HF Bad End) being summoned. Might give that idea its own thread, but its something that could happen, here.

Mike1984
September 24th, 2011, 03:23 PM
Dark Sakura could fit as a Berserker, potentially, or as a Caster.

reborn214
September 24th, 2011, 03:27 PM
Dark Sakura Angra Pactio? with Angra calling Dark Sakura mother.

Mike1984
September 24th, 2011, 03:34 PM
Dark Sakura Angra Pactio? with Angra calling Dark Sakura mother.

Lol, I don't think so.

shiningphoenix
September 24th, 2011, 03:58 PM
Dark Sakura could fit as a Berserker, potentially, or as a Caster.
Also, Avenger or Rider.

Mike1984
September 24th, 2011, 04:27 PM
Rider? How?

And Avenger I'm not sure about, because I'm not really sure what the qualifications for that are.

Prince Charon
September 24th, 2011, 07:14 PM
Rider? How?
The only reason I can think of is a dirty joke, rather than a justification.


And Avenger I'm not sure about, because I'm not really sure what the qualifications for that are.
Well, I thought that her being connected to all the evils of the World might be the qualification.

VelspertheCat
September 24th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Shadow Giants are her mounts?

reborn214
September 24th, 2011, 09:18 PM
Nah using the power of Angra which connects to the grail and throne she has Archer be her mount after all he is the future version of Shirou.

Prince Charon
September 25th, 2011, 10:36 AM
Nah using the power of Angra which connects to the grail and throne she has Archer be her mount after all he is the future version of Shirou.
'Shirou is her mount' was the dirty joke I didn't think I needed to explain.

Mike1984
September 25th, 2011, 05:50 PM
Nah using the power of Angra which connects to the grail and throne she has Archer be her mount after all he is the future version of Shirou.

Lol, I think that's the wrong kind of "mount"....

Prince Charon
September 25th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Suppose Bazett manages to avoid getting taken out by Kotomine, due to the extra prana from her pactio, and the improvements Cu Chulainn gets from it. How would they fight the war, knowing that the supposedly 'neutral' party is rather seriously interfering?

VelspertheCat
September 26th, 2011, 03:47 AM
They would have killed Kotomine when he failed to kill Bazett? Unless Gil instantly springs out of the shadows.

shiningphoenix
September 26th, 2011, 08:40 AM
The only reason I can think of is a dirty joke, rather than a justification.
It's not necessarily a dirty joke, unless you think piggy-back-rides are dirty... :p

I was going for what you were probably thinking, though.

amado
September 26th, 2011, 08:59 AM
They would have killed Kotomine when he failed to kill Bazett? Unless Gil instantly springs out of the shadows.

hmm well there was that argument somewhere that gae bolg would work on kirei but eh they'd be able to beat him either way.
unless kirei uses his command seals to go hero.

shiningphoenix
September 26th, 2011, 01:52 PM
hmm well there was that argument somewhere that gae bolg would work on kirei but eh they'd be able to beat him either way.
Doesn't Lancer kill him in UBW?

Prince Charon
September 26th, 2011, 02:18 PM
They would have killed Kotomine when he failed to kill Bazett? Unless Gil instantly springs out of the shadows.
That's one possibility. If Gil bothered to save him, its possible that both pairs might survive, though I believe Gil would survive either way. Whether Kotomine survives or not, I would expect Bazett to report his treachery to her superiors, and possibly warn other magi in town. The Mages Association might wish to ask the church about that. Of course, if Kotomine survives, he might report a version more favorable to himself to the Church...

Moving on, how would they fight that War? If Bazett knows about Gil (and realizes that he's a Servant from the Fourth War), might she try to ally with Rin?

Prince Charon
October 11th, 2011, 10:14 PM
Found a pic that fits this thread:

http://safebooru.org//samples/486/sample_fa3e316795c5237ff51fae3366f63c82020867e7.pn g (http://safebooru.org/index.php?page=post&s=view&id=487181)
Rin's pactio is active, Shirou has imposed Unlimited Blade Works onto the World, and Emiya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUs8FEsDUZ4) is playing.

Someone's shit is about to be wrecked.

Ergast
October 11th, 2011, 10:44 PM
...

I like that idea.

Prince Charon
October 12th, 2011, 12:22 AM
...

I like that idea.
Cool.

The thought in my mind is that Shirou's Ministra are even more threatening when inside UBW, because he can instantly/very rapidly give them any sword in his collection, rather than outside it, where if he doesn't Trace it, they only have whichever one the pactio granted them. They can't swordspam or Break the Phantasms, only he can do that, but they're still damn scary. Even if all he has is Rin, well, they'll be a champion team after not-to-long, and the Red Devil is a smart, strong-willed, experienced magus. Few are the beings who could slow them down.

If its the endgame, and he has, say, Rin, Saber, Rider, Sakura, and Ayaka? Bloody terrifying.

Ergast
October 12th, 2011, 10:53 AM
With that team, he would be able to face Hetai Eitaronion (or however is spelled the last phantasm of Iskander) and win with ease.

And yes, it makes sense. A warrior would love to have Shirou as his ally. The guy can inmediately give you whatever legendary weapon you desires.

reborn214
October 12th, 2011, 12:22 PM
Hmm, this gives me ideas Iskander plus Shirou Pactio double reality marble a gogo

Ergast
October 12th, 2011, 12:33 PM
The ultimate combo. The most powerful army armed with the most powerful weapons. I pity the foo' who dares to defy those two.

Prince Charon
December 16th, 2011, 09:27 AM
Trying to work out what item or items Cu Chulainn would get as Bazett's Minister. Is there anything significant from his Legend, that he didn't have in canon?

Would he perhaps get some bounded field that when activated, causes the space within to be considered part of Ireland, thus giving him the boosts from being in his homeland (that was suggested for the Overpowered Crack Holy Grail War on TFF, so it might be to much, here)?

For that matter, suppose all the Servants who were pactio'd by people who cared about them, enough, received such an item, for their own homelands?

Ergast
December 16th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Didn't he had some really nifty NP's that he didn't get in Japan? I remember Nasu saying something in the lines that if he were to be summoned in Ireland, he would have at the very least a chariot and a castle, or something like that.

Lycodrake
December 16th, 2011, 10:29 AM
After reading a bit through this thread...I don't know how I feel about the idea of Pactios added to Nasuverse, or at least Fate-side...*shrugs*...

Prince Charon
December 16th, 2011, 10:30 AM
Didn't he had some really nifty NP's that he didn't get in Japan? I remember Nasu saying something in the lines that if he were to be summoned in Ireland, he would have at the very least a chariot and a castle, or something like that.
I think so. When I go to TFF, I'll try to remember to check the Overpowered Crack thread, as I'm sure someone mentioned them.

I do plan to post a version of the Overpowered Crack HGW thread here, but I don't want to post to many threads in to short a time.

EDIT:

After reading a bit through this thread...I don't know how I feel about the idea of Pactios added to Nasuverse, or at least Fate-side...*shrugs*...
Does that mean you have some thoughts on pactios for one of the other Nasuverse series?

Prince Charon
December 18th, 2011, 02:08 PM
I think so. When I go to TFF, I'll try to remember to check the Overpowered Crack thread, as I'm sure someone mentioned them.
Well, I checked, and someone mentioned them, but it was just 'castle' and 'chariot', without any details.

If anyone cares, though, here's a link to it (http://z14.invisionfree.com/The_Fanfiction_Forum/index.php?showtopic=20137).

shiningphoenix
December 19th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Does that mean you have some thoughts on pactios for one of the other Nasuverse series?
Ciel: "Shiki! Become my ministra and obtain fabulous magical power!"
---
Touko: "Say, Shiki...?"
Shiki: "No."

Prince Charon
December 20th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Ciel: "Shiki! Become my ministra and obtain fabulous magical power!"
---
Touko: "Say, Shiki...?"
Shiki: "No."
Shiki's male (unless you mean Ryougi Shiki), and thus would be a Minister, not a Ministra.

I wonder how many girls Shiki could be Minister to, without them trying to kill each other, him, or both?

Ergast
December 20th, 2011, 07:59 PM
Taking into account canon? Even without him being minister, the girls would try to kill each other.

Mike1984
December 20th, 2011, 09:30 PM
Yeah, I think this is one story where Shirou has a very definite advantage....

Prince Charon
December 21st, 2011, 04:48 PM
Yeah, I think this is one story where Shirou has a very definite advantage....
Really, any story with a harem theme, he has the advantage, even if only a few of his girls are canonically bisexual.

Mike1984
December 21st, 2011, 08:46 PM
Really, any story with a harem theme, he has the advantage, even if only a few of his girls are canonically bisexual.

Well, only one of his girls is absolutely canonically bisexual (two if you include Rider), but Sakura shows signs of it, and Saber was married to a woman for most of her life, so....

But, yeah, Shirou's harem actually (broadly) like each other, so he's a lot better off.

Prince Charon
December 22nd, 2011, 09:56 AM
Well, only one of his girls is absolutely canonically bisexual (two if you include Rider), but Sakura shows signs of it, and Saber was married to a woman for most of her life, so....
Sakura's fairly Shirousexual, I think, so even if she weren't bi (which I believe she may be), I doubt she'd have a problem with any sex that involving Shirou: Threesome with Shirou and Medusa, sure; with Shirou and Saber, yes; with Shirou and Ayako, why, of course, Sempai; with Shirou and Rin... she'd let her sister be the one to say no, and if Rin said yes, she'd go with it, IMHO.


But, yeah, Shirou's harem actually (broadly) like each other, so he's a lot better off.
There's that, too. Also, it helps that his girls are somewhat nicer people in general, and he's a nicer guy than Shiki.

Mike1984
December 22nd, 2011, 10:16 AM
Sakura's fairly Shirousexual, I think, so even if she weren't bi (which I believe she may be), I doubt she'd have a problem with any sex that involving Shirou: Threesome with Shirou and Medusa, sure; with Shirou and Saber, yes; with Shirou and Ayako, why, of course, Sempai; with Shirou and Rin... she'd let her sister be the one to say no, and if Rin said yes, she'd go with it, IMHO.

Yeah, I think that's probably true to a large extent, although I'm not sure it'd do her self-confidence much good for Shirou to ask for something like that....

Prince Charon
December 22nd, 2011, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I think that's probably true to a large extent, although I'm not sure it'd do her self-confidence much good for Shirou to ask for something like that....
I'm not sure she has what we would consider self confidence, to start with, but I was just pulling out a few examples.

Ilya is another matter, but since the Shirou I imagine isn't a lolicon, she'd need to have a body that looks her age, first - mind you, she needs a new or repaired body anyway, due to the 'die in a year' problem she has. Maybe a puppet body, like Shirou in HF True.

Mike1984
December 22nd, 2011, 11:34 AM
I'm not sure she has what we would consider self confidence, to start with, but I was just pulling out a few examples.

She doesn't, which is why knocking what little she does have is a bad idea.

After what she's been through, it's not surprising that Sakura's self-confidence and sense of self-worth is essentially nil, but that's definitely not a good thing. With Shirou and Rin's help, she'll improve a lot (she is seemingly a lot more confident even by the time of HA, and she certainly seems to be in HF True), but they really need to avoid knocking it if at all possible, because it's going to be rather fragile for some time.