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esgalia
November 2nd, 2011, 09:11 PM
This is a little scenario that's been bugging me the past few days.

Tohno Shiki's eyes allow him to see imperfection/death of all physical objects in existance. By cutting the lines the 'thing' is destroyed, whereas stabbing the dots/circles is striking at someone's death. If they exist, there's no resistance to Shiki being able to cut it.

The Borg from Star Trek are a species that assimiliate with other beings to perfect themselves. One particular example is that if something is killing them, they adapt to become immune to it.

Here be headache territory.

Would the Borg be able to adapt a resistance to Shiki's eyes? On the one hand they are still organic living beings, and can be killed. On the other hand Shiki would be relying on his ability to kill them via mystic eyes, so they should be able to adapt a resistance to that ability, which would result in Shiki needed to find alternatives to killing future Borg.

In short, could the Borg adapt to eliminate the 'lines' and 'dots' that Shiki sees?

Mcjon01
November 2nd, 2011, 09:15 PM
No.

lantzblades
November 2nd, 2011, 09:18 PM
In short, could the Borg adapt to eliminate the 'lines' and 'dots' that Shiki sees?

nope it runs beyond their perceptual state. MEoDP is like the traveller, the worm hole aliens or Q, far beyond their scope. in theory the borg mind could advance to a state where they could counter it however the likelihood of reaching such with Shiki hunting them is slim to none given that given 29th century borg aren't capable of defending against anything on the MEoDP's level.

Lianru
November 2nd, 2011, 09:19 PM
Yeah, no, probably not.
(this could probably go in the questions thread? dunno)

Five_X
November 2nd, 2011, 09:20 PM
Yeah, Borg getting immune to dotstab is like Beserkcules doing the same. It just doesn't work.

Dartz
November 2nd, 2011, 09:23 PM
I don't think so. Arc has that same ability. She has gained resistance (after experiencing them) to every kind of mystery in the world except magic from the Ancient Shinto in Japan and some treasures at South America. She didn't develop any resistance to the MEoDP even after directly experiencing them. So I don't think it would work. Since death (in other words, the lifespan of existence) is something that is always there, the MEoDP just allows him to see it. If they become immune, then they would be gaining immunity to death itself, not the eyes, since the eyes is just a means to see what's already there.

Lianru
November 2nd, 2011, 09:23 PM
Yeah, Borg getting immune to dotstab is like Beserkcules doing the same. It just doesn't work.
Oh dear.
SHIKI CAN KILL SERVANTS DISCUSS
he totally can lololol
D: D: D: D: D:

I3uster
November 2nd, 2011, 09:27 PM
You know that this only works with non-kinetic weaponry? If you go at them with a sword or blunt force they can't adapt.

Cruor
November 2nd, 2011, 09:31 PM
Oh dear.
SHIKI CAN KILL SERVANTS DISCUSS
he totally can lololol
D: D: D: D: D:

Can Servants be killed by modern weapons? Y/N

Lianru
November 2nd, 2011, 09:31 PM
Yes, but it would be hard.

I3uster
November 2nd, 2011, 09:34 PM
Can Servants be killed by modern weapons? Y/N
Yes, if you hold the modern weapon so that it points at the Servants Master.

esgalia
November 2nd, 2011, 09:34 PM
So in short, if it's anything short of immortal, it can't override death, and thus can't hide from Shiki's eyes. Does that sum it up?


You know that this only works with non-kinetic weaponry? If you go at them with a sword or blunt force they can't adapt.

Ah, forgot about that. Sucks to be Borg in this case.

Dartz
November 2nd, 2011, 09:47 PM
Can Servants be killed by modern weapons? Y/N

According to recent info from CM3, they apparently can. arai didn't agree with it, though. And I forgot how the argument between him, rats and food ended.


So in short, if it's anything short of immortal, it can't override death, and thus can't hide from Shiki's eyes. Does that sum it up?

Yeah, pretty much. But the Borg are aliens, right? They might not even have a Gaian concept of death.

Mcjon01
November 2nd, 2011, 09:50 PM
But they're Star Trek rubber forehead aliens, I'd be hesitant to lump them together with stuff like Types.

Cruor
November 2nd, 2011, 09:53 PM
According to recent info from CM3, they apparently can. arai didn't agree with it, though. And I forgot how the argument between him, rats and food ended.
I said it jokingly >_>; never expected so many replies. As if they can then MEoDP does infact work on Servants.

Anyway, the argument mostly ended in arai's view being more accepted as he brought in Rin quotes on modern weapons and Japanese fandom.

Tobias
November 2nd, 2011, 09:54 PM
I just try not to think about that argument.

Lianru
November 2nd, 2011, 09:55 PM
I just say to myself that Shiki is awesome, therefore he can kill Servants.
:3

eddyak
November 2nd, 2011, 10:06 PM
Shiki can sex Servants. That's enough.

Lianru
November 2nd, 2011, 10:09 PM
Troo dat.

pureauthor
November 2nd, 2011, 10:11 PM
MEoDP may not work on Servant/nonGaians, but Tohno Gland works on anything.

Dartz
November 2nd, 2011, 10:30 PM
What was the reason fans came up with as to why Shiki can't see lines on Servants? I guess it had to do with the fact that most of them are 1000+ years old beings and (apparently) unkillable by modern weapons, but he managed to see lines on Nrvnqsr (a 1000 year old being akin to a phantasmal beast and unkillable by modern weapons).

terraablaze
November 2nd, 2011, 10:41 PM
A lot of the Servants are way older than 1000 years as well.

pureauthor
November 2nd, 2011, 10:44 PM
I don't see what age has to do with anything. Shiki can see the death of of air and Gaia itself, both of which win out in the 'really old' category.

Dartz
November 2nd, 2011, 11:22 PM
And I don't really see why Shiki should have much trouble seeing lines on Servants when he didn't have problems with one of the first 10 DAA. DAA and Servants are supposed to be on the same level.

Tobias
November 2nd, 2011, 11:23 PM
Oh here we go.

Cruor
November 2nd, 2011, 11:28 PM
What was the reason fans came up with as to why Shiki can't see lines on Servants? I guess it had to do with the fact that most of them are 1000+ years old beings and (apparently) unkillable by modern weapons, but he managed to see lines on Nrvnqsr (a 1000 year old being akin to a phantasmal beast and unkillable by modern weapons).

Shiki's eyes are proportionate to the hardware (a modern human being). So he can only kill what modern humanity is able to kill. Problem is Servants are immune to modern weapons. There's probably also other factlors like specialties and how far they submerged/forced themselves too that also help.

And while Nrvnqsr I believe was killed semi immediately (long enough for a few last words) after being dotstabbed, Roa, however, survived long enough to nearly turn Shiki into a vampire if it weren't for Ciel.

ChronoReverse
November 2nd, 2011, 11:51 PM
Shiki's eyes are proportionate to the hardware (a modern human being). So he can only kill what modern humanity is able to kill. Problem is Servants are immune to modern weapons.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Arcueid certainly can't be touched by regular weaponry. She's immune to the point where she thought Shiki's knife was some sort of super conceptual weapon.

Yet Shiki diced her no problem.

Likewise, as a top ten DAA, Nero isn't even killable without powerful conceptual means. Again, Shiki dotstabs him just fine.


Frankly, there's no good reasons servants, as instances of the original heroic spirit on the throne of heroes, can't be dotstabbed. While obviously Shiki has no way to kill the actual heroic spirit on the throne, instances are just created by the greater holy grail




You know that this only works with non-kinetic weaponry? If you go at them with a sword or blunt force they can't adapt.
This isn't actually true you know. The knifing and tommy gun scenes in First Contact were oneshots. There's no reason to believe that if they had persisted, the borg wouldn't just adapt. Besides the tommy guns were actually force fields (patently energy) since it was a holodeck reproduction.

Mcjon01
November 3rd, 2011, 12:26 AM
I would think that it would actually be easier to see death on Servants than on a normal person. Seeing as how they're already dead, and their very existence is tenuous enough that they have to be tethered to something real and constantly pumped full of prana to avoid fading away.

Now, landing a hit, that's a different story.

Five_X
November 3rd, 2011, 02:27 AM
Yeah, even in NANAYA MODO Shiki wouldn't be able to match a Servant's fighting capabilities. Not to mention certain Servants who could just blast him away with NPs like nothing happened.

*Gate of Babylowned*

Mellon
November 3rd, 2011, 05:00 AM
And I don't really see why Shiki should have much trouble seeing lines on Servants when he didn't have problems with one of the first 10 DAA. DAA and Servants are supposed to be on the same level.

Well, one reason could be that Servants are already dead. You know? When they actually died in life? The entire reason the World tries to erase them? Unlike DAA and etc who are still alive, but just extending their lifespan, making killing them considerably more easier. Secondly, they are spirits and Tohno is rubbish at killing the conceptual.

Heck, you cant even kill a Servant in the first place, just destroy their container and make them go back to the Throne. Its the entire reason the GW system works.

And you make this bullshit claim everywhere. Saying that X is "on the level of Y" does not mean that every trait they possess is the same.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 07:29 AM
That doesn't make any sense at all. Arcueid certainly can't be touched by regular weaponry. She's immune to the point where she thought Shiki's knife was some sort of super conceptual weapon.

Yet Shiki diced her no problem.

Likewise, as a top ten DAA, Nero isn't even killable without powerful conceptual means. Again, Shiki dotstabs him just fine.


Frankly, there's no good reasons servants, as instances of the original heroic spirit on the throne of heroes, can't be dotstabbed. While obvi
ously Shiki has no way to kill the actual heroic spirit on the throne, instances are just created by the greater holy grail
Avtually that part was said in game (that Shiki's eyes are proportionate to modern humanity). Don't have access to a computer right now though.

Mcjon01
November 3rd, 2011, 08:55 AM
Well, one reason could be that Servants are already dead. You know? When they actually died in life? The entire reason the World tries to erase them? Unlike DAA and etc who are still alive, but just extending their lifespan, making killing them considerably more easier.

What about the Dead? They're legitimately already dead, too, and that translates to being almost drenched in death when Shiki looks at them with the MEoDP.


Heck, you cant even kill a Servant in the first place, just destroy their container and make them go back to the Throne. Its the entire reason the GW system works.

You could just as easily say that you can't kill humans, just destroy their container to send the soul back to Akasha. :p

pureauthor
November 3rd, 2011, 09:13 AM
Well, one reason could be that Servants are already dead. You know? When they actually died in life? The entire reason the World tries to erase them? Unlike DAA and etc who are still alive, but just extending their lifespan, making killing them considerably more easier. Secondly, they are spirits and Tohno is rubbish at killing the conceptual.

Hold up - firstly, Shiki has killed things that have died already, most prominently Roa, who has died seventeen times, and also Arcueid (okay, he didn't kill Arcueid after she died, but he could have and it would have been easier the second time, at least until she recovered.)

Secondly, a 'spirit' is not a 'concept', not in our reality (assuming they exist) nor in the Nasuverse. It's an existence. It's the difference between 'reversing causality to always strike the target's heart no matter what' (a concept) vs the actual weapon called 'Gae Bolg' (the thing that exists).

Edit: Oh FUCK I'm getting sucked into a 'Can Shiki kill Servants' discussion. ABORT ABORT

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 09:23 AM
Your soul is your concept. We have been over this several, oh wait I guess you weren't here for that.

Q: Conceptual Armaments are fixed magic items which execute a determined event. They're soul smashers (outbreakers) that beat the opponent not physically but with the weight of the soul, but would it be possible to kill, not the "supernatural", but only the soul of a normal person?
A: Yes, but the effect would be lowered. Well, more like, if you're up against a normal guy, it's enough to use physical attacks. You can't use physical interference against things without form, manifestation of rules, manifestation of delusions. That's why you have Conceptual Armaments. Because beings living in concepts can only be killed by concepts.

Concept 概念 - Gainen
The soul. The driving word in Kinoko works. Concepts, rules, and beliefs are what drive and even shape the universe.

Mcjon01
November 3rd, 2011, 09:25 AM
But spirits aren't souls.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 09:26 AM
not that I realy have a dog in this fight but the argument he was making was that as imperfect recreations of the third the servant container's arent pure materialised souls and are therefor killable. which makes sense because the whole point is to go around killing them.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 09:27 AM
I am pretty sure in this instance spirit is referring to soul since spiritus seems to just be your life force.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 09:50 AM
Why not just stab the container? He can kill thaumaturgy and even conceptual stuff like Arcueids link to the earth, so a 5 day old container can't be too hard to kill.
He can kill things that aren't even physically existing, why should he have problems with those?
Besides the obvious problem that he moves with not even a fraction of their speed.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 09:53 AM
Actually, the annoying thing is that Shiki was pulling off speeds similar to Archer-Arm Shirou.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 09:54 AM
Hold up tiger, I don't think we have every seen him kill magery before.

Dartz
November 3rd, 2011, 09:54 AM
And you make this bullshit claim everywhere. Saying that X is "on the level of Y" does not mean that every trait they possess is the same.

Don't try to take my words out of context, please?


I guess it had to do with the fact that most of them are 1000+ years old beings and (apparently) unkillable by modern weapons, but he managed to see lines on Nrvnqsr (a 1000 year old being akin to a phantasmal beast and unkillable by modern weapons).

They are both 1000+ year old beings that live in fantasy. That's what I meant when I said they are on the same level.


Avtually that part was said in game (that Shiki's eyes are proportionate to modern humanity). Don't have access to a computer right now though.

That's also stated in Plus Period. But DAA can't be killed by modern weapons either.

SeiKeo
November 3rd, 2011, 09:54 AM
Hold up tiger, I don't think we have every seen him kill magery before.

Depending on how canon the manga is.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 09:55 AM
unles you are talking about 17 pieces wasnt that as DA shiki?



well, thinking about it there was winning a knife fight with roa and cutting up nero's beasts though.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:00 AM
Depending on how canon the manga is.
So nope then.


unles you are talking about 17 pieces wasnt that as DA shiki?



well, thinking about it there was winning a knife fight with roa and cutting up nero's beasts though.
Except we can't really seem to figure out how fast he was going at all. How fast are Nrvnqsr's beasts anyway? I don't remember them coming across as really all that fast.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 10:02 AM
who knows? though honestly, I doubt he would have trouble killing magecraft. course there is also the whole fluctuating nature of his eyes. sometimes he can only kill modern stuff, sometimes arc (and/or sion) is telling him he eventually could kill concepts that are beyond human imagination

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:04 AM
It makes you wonder what Nasu was talking about when he said Ryougi was better at killing concepts and Tohno is better with physical stuff. The difference never seems to show up.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 10:05 AM
Except we can't really seem to figure out how fast he was going at all. How fast are Nrvnqsr's beasts anyway? I don't remember them coming across as really all that fast.
Well, to kill 70 of them in, what was it again, 3 seconds or so, you still need to be pretty quick.
But in the end he's still just a normal human, so he can't even hope to touch Servants.

It makes you wonder what Nasu was talking about when he said Ryougi was better at killing concepts and Tohno is better with physical stuff. The difference never seems to show up.
Except when Ryogi stands there looking cool when cutting magecraft, and when Tohno kills something conceptual he nearly goes blind.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 10:11 AM
unles you are talking about 17 pieces wasnt that as DA shiki?



well, thinking about it there was winning a knife fight with roa and cutting up nero's beasts though.
If you're talking to me when Shiki meets Kouma in KT he literally goes crazy and does 7 or 8 meters per step. That's abot 20 or 30 km/h faster then Archer Arm. Against Akiha he's all I can cross the 10 meters and get into knife range in two steps but that still ain't enough to beat Akiha's sight. Archer Arm when fighting Alter said 10 meters was the safe distance as they'd need two steps to get into range but three if they want to do a definite kill.

But yeah Shiki did trace the lines of 70 beasts in a few seconds but we have no real idea how fast that was.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:12 AM
Oh right that. Kind of hard to notice with him on the edge of brain death so often.
^
but how often was he taking those steps?

SeiKeo
November 3rd, 2011, 10:14 AM
Except when Ryogi stands there looking cool when cutting magecraft, and when Tohno kills something conceptual he nearly goes blind.

Plus we have Ryougi kills appendicitis like it's putting on her jacket, and Shiki almost kills himself trying to kill poison.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 10:15 AM
...oh....huh. see, I would normally wave that off as KT and being a dream so somewhat unreliable, but I hadnt thought to cross that with him 10 metering akiha while also running on the walls and cieling, implying thats a normal feat for him.




so.....hmmm.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:17 AM
Honestly I don't trust the numbers Nasu gives us a lot of the time.

SeiKeo
November 3rd, 2011, 10:18 AM
Honestly I don't trust the numbers Nasu gives us a lot of the time.

Are there any that you think are ​a good idea to trust?

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 10:18 AM
Well, running on walls is cool, but Servants can run up skyscrapers, so I think they are still out of his league.

But I don't see him not seeing any dots or lines, that's just stupid when he can kill abstract stuff, Arc and Roa.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 10:21 AM
Well, running on walls is cool, but Servants can run up skyscrapers, so I think they are still out of his league.

But I don't see him not seeing any dots or lines, that's just stupid when he can kill abstract stuff, Arc and Roa.


Hell, neither would I, I just didn't realize he had on several occasions duplicated feats worthy of garcher arm shirou.


Thats impressive for the scrawny little guy, maybe I was under estimating him.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:22 AM
@LeopardBear
Usually if he lists how many of something there are sure. But the speeds just seem to be off the top of his head, see Bazett's SUPAH impressive punch that is actually really kind of slow if you looked at it from a realistic perspective and which is certainly not human meat grinder level. Also Bellerphon going at a speed most Servants can easily run apparently but treated as something super fast.

Edit: doesn't self hypnosis Ryougi Shiki go 10m in a single step? Que Ryougi actually being able to go head to head with Servants and kill 99 of them. See how treating these numbers seriously is silly.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 10:24 AM
Honestly I don't trust the numbers Nasu gives us a lot of the time.
This but it's what I'm working with here.


Well, running on walls is cool, but Servants can run up skyscrapers, so I think they are still out of his league.

But I don't see him not seeing any dots or lines, that's just stupid when he can kill abstract stuff, Arc and Roa.
This. I also don't see him doing that but we know he matches up against Archer Arm.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 10:24 AM
Hell, neither would I, I just didn't realize he had on several occasions duplicated feats worthy of garcher arm shirou.


Thats impressive for the scrawny little guy, maybe I was under estimating him.
Well, he comes from a family whose signature move is "ripping of peoples heads with bare hands and a somersault", so yeah.

eddyak
November 3rd, 2011, 10:39 AM
Also Bellerphon going at a speed most Servants can easily run apparently but treated as something super fast.
If you think about it, though, 500km/h is probably Bellerophon's regular speed. Servants can run around and fight at Mach whatever for a few minutes before they run out of mana- Bellere should be able to go for hours whilst using up little to no mana. Bellerophon isn't a burst-type NP- that smashed up hallway in Fate was what it could do just running through it- Even Berserker only managed to rip apart walls with the pressure off his swung sword.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 10:40 AM
Edit: doesn't self hypnosis Ryougi Shiki go 10m in a single step? Que Ryougi actually being able to go head to head with Servants and kill 99 of them. See how treating these numbers seriously is silly.
Technically it was 9 but again it was likey Void Ryougi.

SeiKeo
November 3rd, 2011, 10:41 AM
Technically it was 9 but again it was likey Void Ryougi.

Void plus self hypnosis, and yay we don't know how much each one contributes darn it.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:46 AM
She also had her rib cage crushed and organs pulverized from Araya's punch at the time she was moving that fast though so take note.
Also find it funny how Touko is like "man Ryougi Shiki has the strength of a girl" but when she gets hit by a spatial crush and it wrecks her anti magic defense and her rib cage she wishes she had Shiki's ridiculous physiology. And sure enough when Araya uses the same spatial crush on her she hardly pays it any mind.

SeiKeo
November 3rd, 2011, 10:48 AM
When Touko's talking, Ryougi's supah fit, when Araya's punching, she's not, goddamnit Naisu.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 10:53 AM
It's like her killing Servants.
Shiki alternates between her normal level of awesome and a degree of awesome that some people simply can't accept.

Crown
November 3rd, 2011, 11:20 AM
I like where this went. An argument I can finally enjoy reading!

pureauthor
November 3rd, 2011, 11:24 AM
After this I now realize why 'Shiki can kill Servants. Discuss.' became a meme.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 11:26 AM
I am actually still a little shook up by the shiki Garcher arm thing.




That's...huh.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 11:42 AM
Well, he doesn't have the fine technique of a hero, speed isn't everything.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 11:58 AM
I am actually still a little shook up by the shiki Garcher arm thing.




That's...huh.

Was it that surprising? I thought I mentioned this previously though never used it as a major point.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 12:04 PM
I thought he was all technique and trump cards, honestly. It's not surprising in retrospect considering some of the stuff he has done, I guess.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 12:07 PM
Isn't it more like a super sprint though? I don't think he will ever do something like run through the forest keeping up with Kotomine and follow it up with a fight with Black Berserker or getting lost in a fight with Saber Alter (however serious she was) and then going Crane Wing on her afterwards.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 12:09 PM
Yeah. The Nanaya are all about breaking limits. Wasn't there this one scene where he evades while dislocating something in the process?

If he can release all his marathon man endurance in a single burst (lolVNlogic) he can run up walls or something like that, probably.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 12:12 PM
Correction: Not actually marathon distance because Nasu also does not seem to know how long a marathon is either.

ChronoReverse
November 3rd, 2011, 12:17 PM
Isn't it more like a super sprint though? I don't think he will ever do something like run through the forest keeping up with Kotomine and follow it up with a fight with Black Berserker or getting lost in a fight with Saber Alter (however serious she was) and then going Crane Wing on her afterwards.

I think the point is that for what comes down to just a regular, albeit well-trained, human body to do anything on the level of servants without magical reinforcements, even for just a short burst, is amazing.

eddyak
November 3rd, 2011, 12:34 PM
Shiki wasn't Servant level there. Kotomine easily outpaced ArmShirou, and TA easily outpaced him. Pretty much any Servant can outpace TA.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 12:43 PM
Isn't it more like a super sprint though? I don't think he will ever do something like run through the forest keeping up with Kotomine and follow it up with a fight with Black Berserker or getting lost in a fight with Saber Alter (however serious she was) and then going Crane Wing on her afterwards.
Well Shiki could run under a collapsing tree to do an attack, run on walls and the ceiling against Akiha, and beat Roa in a knife fight.


Yeah. The Nanaya are all about breaking limits. Wasn't there this one scene where he evades while dislocating something in the process?

If he can release all his marathon man endurance in a single burst (lolVNlogic) he can run up walls or something like that, probably.
Hmm. What happened was that Kouma did a charge and Shiki used his instincts to dodge which ended up breaking/dislocating his foot/leg. Shiki forced his leg to do the same dodge again. But when he tried doing it again his leg crumbled as his leg was too disfigured.... WHAT THE FUCK

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 01:15 PM
My point still stands that those were basically sprints of activity.

Mcjon01
November 3rd, 2011, 01:17 PM
Clearly all he needs to do then is pull off fifty or sixty full-power sprints in a row, it's so SIMPLE.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 01:19 PM
Well that is what Lancer seems to do. But he has actual endurance.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 01:20 PM
I think the point there is if one assumes shiki can actually do the stuff in KT, then before kouma stared weakening shiki was reacting at servant level speeds, though destroying his body in so doing.

KT is always a little fuzzy for me as a canon source though.

Mcjon01
November 3rd, 2011, 01:22 PM
Shiki has infinite stamina as long as he's actively in danger. He suffers from dramanemia.

pureauthor
November 3rd, 2011, 01:23 PM
Shiki has Protagonitis Rank A, where he will magically gain just enough strength/speed/HAX to defeat whatever it is he is fighting before collapsing and fainting. A power even more potent than Arc's planetary backup.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 01:24 PM
Shiki has infinite stamina as long as he's actively in danger. He suffers from dramanemia.

That reminds me of a whole back of a bunch of people were saying nero hadn't hurt him more then a few cuts....then it turns out his body had been shredded, he was going on pure malice and hate, and his body nearly fell apart right after.

Lianru
November 3rd, 2011, 01:27 PM
Malice and hate? Really?
....huh.

Tobias
November 3rd, 2011, 01:29 PM
Essentially he wanted to kill Nero more then his body wanted to lay down and die, basically.

Lianru
November 3rd, 2011, 01:31 PM
Oh, okay.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 01:31 PM
It's a demon hunter thing. Killing them like Kiri is pretty much impossible, so you have to hope for a trade, and that's easier if you can run on malice and hate.

pureauthor
November 3rd, 2011, 01:31 PM
Somewhere in the distance, a Borg scratches its dome with a metal probe and asks 'Wasn't this thread about us at some point?'

Lianru
November 3rd, 2011, 01:32 PM
Shiki killed them all. He killed the topic too.

terraablaze
November 3rd, 2011, 01:37 PM
Or maybe she, it is hard to tell sometimes.

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 01:38 PM
Borg adaption doesn't work that way, so it was doomed from the start.

solopy567
November 3rd, 2011, 02:05 PM
So, what would happen if the Borg assimilate Shiki? Will they be able to use his MEoDP?

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 02:24 PM
Yes. They can use telepathic abilities of assimilated species too.

SeiKeo
November 3rd, 2011, 02:26 PM
Eh, I wouldn't really call MEoDP a telepathic ability. The whole reason he has it is because he almost died and touched the Root. Don't think the Borg are doing that?

ChronoReverse
November 3rd, 2011, 03:10 PM
Well, Shiki is still in there even after assimilation. It's not clear if the Borg personality that's installed simply orders the original to do things or if it takes direct control.

If it's direct control, then I don't think MEoDP would work since it's Shiki's soul that's connected. But if it's an order that Shiki can't disobey, then the ability should be retained. Does this seem reasonable?

I3uster
November 3rd, 2011, 04:40 PM
Eh, I wouldn't really call MEoDP a telepathic ability. The whole reason he has it is because he almost died and touched the Root. Don't think the Borg are doing that?
The point is, if the Borg recognize the ability, they will retain it.
A problem could be that they alter the brain of the assimilated subject and modify/destroy the eyes of the assimilated person.

Kotollama
November 3rd, 2011, 05:33 PM
teh borg wins, because it isnt from Nasu.

Cruor
November 3rd, 2011, 05:57 PM
That's also stated in Plus Period. But DAA can't be killed by modern weapons either.
Ciel?

Dartz
November 3rd, 2011, 06:02 PM
As far as I know Ciel only uses point based guns to kill small-time DA, not DAA. In MB, Sion stated that the first ten DAA cannot be killed by merely destroying their bodies, so even a nuke wouldn't completely kill them.