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View Full Version : SOPA H.R.3241 (internet breaker round two)



Ligerleon89
November 18th, 2011, 05:16 PM
I won't say much but the SOPA bill is similar to the Protect Ip bill which I just said about a little bit on my last thread. Right now, only a few congressmen have already spoke out about the bill, still we need more effort to get people out and write letters to their congressman and possibly the White House.

I know people always keep assuming that bills like this won't go through, but there's problem with that kind of mentality, maybe they forgot it's going to be one of those days when this bill is going to go through, THEN EVERYONE STARTS GOING CRAZY AFTER THAT BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PROTEST BEFORE. To even keep yourself from doing that, get in Congress faces first and keep trying to persist until they back off for now.

I heard that the Protect IP bill has been put on hold, something like that, but there's still that other bill.

It's still not over yet, nor will it be ever be over as long as those guys keep seeking the internet for control over it.

If you have friends who you've already told about this, keep telling them spread the word and continue to write letters to Congressmen as such. Those who oppose have to be completely sure that they are doing a good job persisting to turn down both bills.

I've already sent a letter to one of the congressmen in Virginia, just to prove that I'm doing something right to go the right people.

That's all for now. I'm gonna go take a nap..

BTW This bill is correctly called SOPA H.R.3261 not 3241

MssrNeko
November 18th, 2011, 05:47 PM
Isn't this the bill that basically censors everything? Cause I've seen some sites with the "stop censorship" logo over their logo.

Twelveseal
November 18th, 2011, 05:48 PM
You know, to be honest, with the economy happily going down the drain, they might actually pass one of these things just for the revenue. I think the bigwigs are getting desperate enough to try it, and the production companies are aware of it. Anything to rake in a little extra cash for the deficit fixes.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see one of these things pass regardless of public voice. After all, it's already a violation of Freedom of Speech. Why bother with public opinion if you're going to go ahead and squash it anyway?

I mean really, we weren't seeing these things until the world's economic state started looking like Swiss cheese. Now that the more civil governments of the world are hard up for cash, I expect we'll start to see the rights of the people, both in the US and abroad, start evaporating pretty steadily.

Ligerleon89
November 18th, 2011, 05:50 PM
Yep that's the one. Everyone who put those censorship pop up on those site is trying to get everyone else to understand what happens of those bills passes. They're asking everyone to write letters to Congress about to oppose those bills outright, They still need more people to persist, otherwise it's gonna be doozy.

Chaos Greyblood
November 20th, 2011, 07:32 PM
If this is the best they can do in other to gather some revenue, they are truly in a black hole of ideas. And let's not even think about how much the anti-immigration law project in Arizona would cost had it passed....

Some people are truly idiots.

Counterguardian
November 20th, 2011, 07:46 PM
Democracy.

Demonstrating how cracy you are.

drmchsr0
November 21st, 2011, 11:10 AM
I have no idea why they think this'll keep them in the black.

Considering the scope and powers of the Bill, it's quite possible this could murder the global economy.

I mean, this basically makes credit cards useless forever. Bank transfers are now monitored (though that's probably a good thing.) and can be stopped with government power. And there's a good chance even BITCOIN might be rendered useless.

Seriously, America, how long are you gonna realize that this is going to literally cause The Second Great Depression when it passes?

mewarmo990
November 22nd, 2011, 02:41 PM
Democracy.

Demonstrating how cracy you are.
No democracy here.

Just lobbying by record labels and Hollywood.

Twelveseal
November 23rd, 2011, 01:31 AM
^This. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

mewarmo990
November 23rd, 2011, 04:21 AM
Yup, I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If you want to change this country (for better or worse), don't run for Congress. Get rich, start a big multinational, save the world (or bend it to your will, kekekekekeke).

See Google? eBay? Microsoft? They are the ones who can stop this bill from passing. Not a stupid change.org petition or whatever.

And sadly, that's the way it will stay for the foreseeable future, despite honorable causes like Occupy.

Mike1984
November 23rd, 2011, 09:02 AM
Except that that doesn't work, because the CEOs of big corporations are legally obliged to act to increase the profits of said corporation. Even if you do get into a position of such power, all you can ever do is to use it for selfish gain.

What a wonderful system....

SeiKeo
November 23rd, 2011, 11:39 AM
That, of course, makes the presumption that increasing profits for a corporation can only benefit the corporation.

Erlkonig
November 23rd, 2011, 11:44 AM
Except that that doesn't work, because the CEOs of big corporations are legally obliged to act to increase the profits of said corporation. Even if you do get into a position of such power, all you can ever do is to use it for selfish gain.

What a wonderful system....

What.

You mean you aren't free to do whatever you want if you have a lot of money?

...Lol, just lol

Mike1984
November 23rd, 2011, 11:47 AM
That, of course, makes the presumption that increasing profits for a corporation can only benefit the corporation.

Who else is it going to benefit...?

Sure, there are cases where corporations making money can have other benefits, but they're entirely incidental. And it is certainly not going to improve the world in any manner you can determine before it happens, because it's not intentional.

SeiKeo
November 23rd, 2011, 11:49 AM
Who else is it going to benefit...?

I cite the spread of the PC, the iPhone, and the car. It could benefit quite a few.

Mike1984
November 23rd, 2011, 12:17 PM
I cite the spread of the PC, the iPhone, and the car. It could benefit quite a few.

Erm, no.

Of course corporations can do things which are beneficial to society, but increasing their profits is not directly linked to that, and is often opposed to it. The profit increase and the benefit to society both have a common cause, true, but the benefit to society could in principle come without the increase in profits, and society certainly does not benefit from corporations caring only for their profit levels. It's only the system which we live under which causes the two to (often) be linked, not anything fundamental.

SeiKeo
November 23rd, 2011, 12:21 PM
[respone]

Feh, I don't actually care enough to argue.

Ligerleon89
November 23rd, 2011, 12:49 PM
Still just so we don't get into any one-sided arguments, those who make the contents of whatever form of media have just as much as voice as the rest of us. It's sucks that people gets their stuff without buying so some are in support of the bill. Piracy is a bother, and unfortunately, they too will find a way and continue going on. The problem is that those bills are too broad and vague to describe. I could understand plenty with movies, music, and shows. In fact you can just buy them in two ways, on internet or DVDs. What I want to know is the fate of video game videos, (including my eventual debut of Let's Play's, game playthrough or streams, and probably my reviews of any kind.) TGWTG included too along with any other webshows with it. I still find it ridiculous for being in trouble because I want to show of my online match like KOFXIII for example, with another person or just show some tips or tricks to help beat a game.

Mike1984
November 23rd, 2011, 12:58 PM
Well, movie companies only give a fuck about their profits, so why would they care about your rights...?

Ligerleon89
November 23rd, 2011, 01:08 PM
^ You're right, I just only brought that up since I've seen the The Archfiend's recent video that made me think a bit. This is pretty much a voices vs profits out here. As messed up as it is, even those idiot movie companies can still take it up to up to Congress and still complain about it, not to mention the various other companies who thinks this is a good idea. even if TGWTG is somewhat safe from all this, I'm still getting a horrible feeling from it all. Plus SOPA is going through a part of the three branches of government, it'll be a miracle of the bill to be knocked right out from either one branch....

Twelveseal
November 23rd, 2011, 08:05 PM
Then again, with the way our government is right now, there's a good chance that the bigwigs won't actually be able to make a decision on it. The bipartisan problem we had with the debt control committee is likely to continue, now that it's found a foothold. Our government may not be locked out, but they have deadlocked. Neither DEM or REP are willing to give anything, especially with the upcoming elections.

Odds are, an unpopular bill like this will get quietly swept under the rug and forgotten, since no one wants to piss off the voters just yet. Even afterwards, we're quite likely to see a massive change in the political environment of the nation. I doubt Obama can win a second term with his current popularity, so we're probably looking at a Republican president. Unfortunately, REP are notorious for their heavy spending and their unwillingness to tax (hell, they have a petition going around the Republicans that aims to prevent any future tax increases by members of the party).

With the debt fix a failure, the likelihood of this thing passing just plummeted, imo. Both major parties just took a giant hit in popularity by proving that they can't actually work together well enough to serve the needs of the people.

Mike1984
November 23rd, 2011, 08:28 PM
I'm not convinced Obama is going to lose, actually. He may not be popular, but the Republicans aren't popular either, in general. It might just be a case of people voting for the one they hate the least....

Ligerleon89
November 23rd, 2011, 08:36 PM
^ And this kind of unpopularity with both parties usually happens when both parties mess around too much and don't figure out a way to come up with something that they'll both agree on. There is a way for things to be figured out it things don't have to lean on either side of the spectrum, just stay in the grey area. The more they fight on solutions, the more obvious how both parties will feel some hate for continuing to keep fighting like this...

It's not impossible to come up with a solution that benefits all, I could find a solution like that, anyone could. It's a bit hard, but once a solution comes up, one that makes sense and doesn't screw over either political parties and the citizens. Then things should work out...I'm rambling here.

Twelveseal
November 23rd, 2011, 08:38 PM
That might be true. Actually, I've been asked a couple times by petitioners to sign my name and info to a request to vote for a third party in the running. Since they never say what party though, I never do. Like I'm going to agree to something like that. Let me know what you stand for first, and maybe then I'll support you.

Ligerleon89
December 17th, 2011, 12:32 PM
That might be true. Actually, I've been asked a couple times by petitioners to sign my name and info to a request to vote for a third party in the running. Since they never say what party though, I never do. Like I'm going to agree to something like that. Let me know what you stand for first, and maybe then I'll support you.

SOPA has been postponed for voting yesterday, so it is a bit of good news. I did see the live hearing at their meeting it was a total mess, I couldn't stand watching it for too long. Still all opposers are still attempting to slam real hard against the senate to make it clear for real this time. My last comment on random thoughts thread, I was a bit too excited, but it's still not over. Meanwhile someone's new blog is coming up with ideas for getting IP address and DNS for their websites in the case that SOPA/PIPA does pass as an emergency. As far as I know, with SOPA postponed, they're need a bit more effore this time to keep anyone from getting away with it. It's said we got people in power who don't know a thing about the internet and then try this crap with our younger generations.

*edit* well the hearing makeup just got shortened to next wednesday, desperate to get this over with. Without many more millions of ours not being aware if this, well it's going to be messy.

solopy567
December 22nd, 2011, 08:01 AM
The amount of profits that will be lost as a result of this bill will be substantially higher than the profits gained. Online games as we know them will essentially be finished, thousands of Internet-based shops like Amazon and eBay will collapse, and thousands will lose their jobs.
Anime streaming and online manga reading sites will be closed. This, in turn, will decrease the profits of anime studios because there will be no way for overseas customers to get any sort of product.

And then, the solution will be temporary. Piracy always finds a way, no matter what happens. The Pirate Bay is such an example. It lived through raids and its creators survived jail time.

It is a temporary solution that will cause permanent damage. These people have no idea what they are doing.

Twelveseal
December 23rd, 2011, 12:33 AM
I believe that that's the general consensus for the whole of the American government right now.
I never said it would work, but it's the kind of thing that someone who doesn't have a good grip on the actual economic repercussions of legislature might consider as a means of gaining money.

To be honest, even if they intend to only do this in the short term, the loss of faith in the government when public satisfaction is already so low could be even worse.

Lycodrake
January 20th, 2012, 09:52 AM
http://5.asset.soup.io/asset/2844/4501_603b_480.png
...blame Tusia for showing this to me. Couldn't resist posting it here. XP

Ivan The Mouse
January 20th, 2012, 09:56 AM
http://5.asset.soup.io/asset/2844/4501_603b_480.png
...blame Tusia for showing this to me. Couldn't resist posting it here. XP

...I choked on my brownie.

SeiKeo
January 20th, 2012, 10:47 AM
SOPA is hot as fuck.

Erlkonig
January 20th, 2012, 10:56 AM
PIPA has zettai ryouki- Your argument is void, PIPA is hottest.

Kotonoha
January 20th, 2012, 10:58 AM
PIPA is definitely the hotte-- WAIT NO I'M FALLING FOR THE PROPAGANDA

Lycodrake
January 20th, 2012, 11:00 AM
I like SOPA's design here better. =w=

DarkMAN
January 20th, 2012, 11:09 AM
They won't buy me with that! There's no lolis!

Ivan The Mouse
January 20th, 2012, 11:16 AM
They won't buy me with that! There's no lolis!

Those are lolis, fool.

LET US RAPE THEM UNTIL THEY BREAK!

Lycodrake
January 20th, 2012, 11:17 AM
Those are lolis, fool.

LET US RAPE THEM UNTIL THEY BREAK!
Not sure what to say to that. =.=

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 11:21 AM
Someone want to tell me when Sopa Middleton was born?

DarkMAN
January 20th, 2012, 11:29 AM
Those are lolis, fool.

LET US RAPE THEM UNTIL THEY BREAK!

WTF are you talking about? They are not lolis!

EDIT: But you can rape them if you want.

Erlkonig
January 20th, 2012, 11:31 AM
They are flat-chested...

Suspiciously flat-chested...

*GASP*

COULD IT BE

Lycodrake
January 20th, 2012, 11:33 AM
They are flat-chested...

Suspiciously flat-chested...

*GASP*

COULD IT BE
Your implications disturb me, but also made me laugh. =.=

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Agreed

Lukahn
January 20th, 2012, 12:07 PM
Their asses need to be anihilated.

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 12:12 PM
In context .... that sounds REALLY wrong.

Aiden
January 20th, 2012, 12:13 PM
In context .... that sounds REALLY wrong.

Wrong... or very right?

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 12:15 PM
Wrong... or very right?

.... don't tempt me.

Lycodrake
January 20th, 2012, 12:31 PM
.... don't tempt me.
I'm not. I'm just staring a SOPA-tan there and enjoying the view.

Aiden
January 20th, 2012, 12:32 PM
SOPA-tan/Internet-kun/PIPA-tan hatesex.

Lycodrake
January 20th, 2012, 12:35 PM
SOPA-tan/Internet-kun/PIPA-tan hatesex.
Exactly. XD

Kratosirving
January 20th, 2012, 12:47 PM
except Pipa-chan looks like she's going to enjoy it, with that "<3"

Aiden
January 20th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Everyone enjoys hatesex~

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM
Except Haters

Aiden
January 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM
Well, haters gonna hate.

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 12:54 PM
but no one is going to listen.

ON WITH THE HATESEX POSSIBLYLOLI ORGY!

SeiKeo
January 20th, 2012, 01:00 PM
We're not done, but not bad, Internet.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/internet-wins-sopa-and-pipa-both-shelved.ars

Aiden
January 20th, 2012, 01:03 PM
We're not done, but not bad, Internet.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/internet-wins-sopa-and-pipa-both-shelved.ars

Well, it's a start.

Vahan
January 20th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Team Internet-kun: 1
Team SOPA & PIPA: 0

Kratosirving
January 20th, 2012, 04:46 PM
As always happens in these 3P situations....


"I hope you're ready for Round 2!"
"W-What?! NOOOOOOO!!!"

Mellon
January 23rd, 2012, 01:53 PM
Khm...

(http://www.destructoid.com/move-over-sopa-acta-is-coming-to-europe-and-the-world--220063.phtml)Signed by numerous nations over the world and also gives the right to border controls to search your stuff (laptops/Ipods) for copyright infringement, fine you if found in possession of such things, and possibly destroy your "offending item".

Crown
January 23rd, 2012, 01:58 PM
Fucking Americans.

.It.
January 23rd, 2012, 02:46 PM
I can put down the "End of the Internet world in 2012!!" flyers now, right?

Eveonder
January 28th, 2012, 10:45 PM
I'm kind of glad I'm Canadian... but it's kind of annoying when Americans think they rule the internet. Wait, stop! Big Brother is trying to get us off topic with cute personifications.

Ivan The Mouse
January 29th, 2012, 10:00 AM
Khm...

(http://www.destructoid.com/move-over-sopa-acta-is-coming-to-europe-and-the-world--220063.phtml)Signed by numerous nations over the world and also gives the right to border controls to search your stuff (laptops/Ipods) for copyright infringement, fine you if found in possession of such things, and possibly destroy your "offending item".

Then I would not be going out of this country. Ever.

Apple
January 29th, 2012, 10:44 AM
They should be spending money on anti-terrorist measures, not anti-piracy ones.

This is not the way to go about quashing piracy. It will be abused by nations who just want the money or want censorship.

SeiKeo
January 29th, 2012, 12:58 PM
They should be spending money on anti-terrorist measures, not anti-piracy ones.

Hahahahaha, but if we actually got rid of the terrorists the administration would loose its legal basis for going to war with everyone!

Megaolix
January 29th, 2012, 05:36 PM
I'm kind of glad I'm Canadian... but it's kind of annoying when Americans think they rule the internet. Wait, stop! Big Brother is trying to get us off topic with cute personifications.

Sad news for us Canadians. Turns out our government is just as bad. Go check Bill C-11. It now has SOPA stuff inserted into it since last week.

Twelveseal
January 29th, 2012, 07:39 PM
Lol. I'm just glad they haven't actually tried to market this crap as anti-terrorism yet. It's possible. All they need is to fabricate enough evidence that terrorists are using file-sharing to relay information between each other, and booooooom!!! There goes all freedom on the internet. They'd use that as a reason to pass all this ACTA bullship completely as well. That way, they can better track the terrorists~

RAEG.

Mike1984
January 29th, 2012, 07:55 PM
Unfortunately for them, the last thing the security services want is for the internet to be censored and more explicitly spied on. I mean, they spy on terrorists already, without too much difficulty. If you pass bills like this and extend spying to copyright infringement, then it will become a lot more common for people to bypass it and find ways of bypassing it, which makes it a lot harder to track real threats.

lantzblades
January 29th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Sad news for us Canadians. Turns out our government is just as bad. Go check Bill C-11. It now has SOPA stuff inserted into it since last week.

only because america as usual leaned on canada to have this stuff drawn up. if this passes I'm going on a fucking campian to flood mail boxes and encite protests and riots. america needs to stop pretending it has the right to push us around.

SeiKeo
January 29th, 2012, 08:53 PM
U just mad that we have a better country.

lantzblades
January 29th, 2012, 08:57 PM
U just mad that we have a better country.





no, i'm pissed off because c11 fucks up alot of the point of digital storage and it's being pushed by those sopa twats.

Comartemis
January 29th, 2012, 09:01 PM
ACTA is a toothless old man trying to beat up a bunch of young and virile pirates with a cane made of sawdust. The European Parliament hates ACTA because of all the negotiations shenanigans, the European people hate it for the same reasons + censorship and the US won't pass any laws to put it into action at home because the people put their collective foot down on SOPA and PIPA. Even before the protests in Europe ACTA was already watered down severely from its original form and the final vote on it doesn't even happen until June. At the rate it's going it will disintegrate into nothingness before the end of spring, mark my words.

Megaolix
January 29th, 2012, 09:07 PM
Come to think of it, I wonder some heads in Canada will realize how pissed the people will be once they can't do what they usually did if C-11 passes.

Voting it is one thing, enforcing it on another hand...

lantzblades
January 29th, 2012, 09:24 PM
Come to think of it, I wonder some heads in Canada will realize how pissed the people will be once they can't do what they usually did if C-11 passes.

Voting it is one thing, enforcing it on another hand...

true that. the thing is that it is mostly a good law. the failures of it are just huge

Counterguardian
January 29th, 2012, 09:52 PM
You'd think a good law shouldn't have failures.

lantzblades
January 29th, 2012, 10:39 PM
You'd think a good law shouldn't have failures.




true.

Five_X
January 30th, 2012, 12:14 AM
I'm sure God-Emperor Harper has good plans for C-11, though! He's never let us down before! :D :D :D

DB-L
April 9th, 2012, 03:57 AM
Not sure if this wasn't already posted.

You guys have probably heard of CISPA (http://www.infowars.com/cispa-hr-3523-the-new-sopa/) by now.


Thoughts?

Apple
April 9th, 2012, 04:29 AM
Who the fuck keeps coming up with these things? Are they trying to get as many similar bills in as possible in the hopes that the world will grow tired of fighting for its freedom?

Ruu-tan
April 9th, 2012, 05:57 AM
... What's up with US legislators and internet privacy?

jwang
April 9th, 2012, 01:48 PM
Because the truth is a dangerous thing, and the internet makes it easily available to the public.

.It.
April 10th, 2012, 06:52 PM
I went out. Got a job. Came back to this.
WTF America? Why are you always coming up with these funny laws?

SeiKeo
April 10th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Who the fuck keeps coming up with these things? Are they trying to get as many similar bills in as possible in the hopes that the world will grow tired of fighting for its freedom?

Yes.

Lycodrake
April 10th, 2012, 06:55 PM
http://5.asset.soup.io/asset/2844/4501_603b_480.png
SOPA, PIPA, defend your claim(s) from this "CISPA". XP

Mike1984
April 10th, 2012, 06:59 PM
Did the people behind SOPA and PIPA find someone internet-savvy and get them to draw an advert or something? :p

.It.
April 10th, 2012, 07:05 PM
No no no. This is all a huge distraction. So they can fuck us over in some other way.



Eventually, when the petitions are the number of the grains of sand on the beaches, and the blood, tears and mucus of internet inhabitants reach the size of the oceans of this world, then the government will just say fuck it and toss us all in jail.


... I still have those rocks if you guys are still interested.

Gabriulio
April 10th, 2012, 07:51 PM
I still wish a slow and painful Watanagashi-like death to whoever comes up with those stupid laws.

Ivan The Mouse
April 11th, 2012, 10:38 AM
I still wish a slow and painful Watanagashi-like death to whoever comes up with those stupid laws.

Amputate their arms, tie their feet and hang them in a tree upside-down. Death by exsanguination.

Twelveseal
April 11th, 2012, 07:48 PM
Actually, the dude's name is Lamar Smith, iirc. He's a Rep. operating in Texas.
Basically, if you get one nation that can control the internet, that's one nation that effectively controls the media itself, so... You know that old saying "knowledge is power?" That's the point here.

Part of it's earning money and swinging authority around, showing how powerful the Gov. really is and how little the actual interests and opinions of the people matter in comparison to the wealth, legislative, and military power of the Gov. on an international scale. This is basically every major government in the world saying "look, you put us in power, and this is how we're going to keep it no matter what you think or feel."

Like you said, they're basically going to keep throwing these things out, both the US and other nations, until the populace caves and they get what they want, or the people take the power to implement something like this away from them. Until then, it's a war of attrition. They'll keep trying to pass these things, and we'll keep having to fight them, a mighty siege battle for the freedom of the internet.

Epic Battle Music Goes Here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP2zA3lZk9Y)

Ambrose
April 12th, 2012, 02:02 PM
This one doesn't have anything to do with Lamar Smith, actually, or at least it doesn't have his name on it. SOPA was his brainchild, but this one comes from Mike Rogers (Republican, Michigan) and Dutch Ruppersberger (Democrat, Maryland).

Oh, and there's a familiar name on it, too. A certain Mrs. Bachmann.

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2012, 05:03 PM
http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Bo ing%29

Looks like we have another contender for Internet Breaker on the table.

Mr. House
August 26th, 2012, 05:09 PM
Government, stop messing with the Internet, you're just going to ruin it for everyone (including yourselves)!

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2012, 05:13 PM
They want that fat media paycheck is what it is.

Gabriulio
August 26th, 2012, 05:14 PM
Death to them! Make them die the death! Sentence them to death! Watanagashi-style torture to them! (x999)

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Lol. Really, they're justified in what they're doing, since, legally, they're protecting their own rights and property.

They're just taking it to such a degree that it's going to be harmful to the Internet Community, the Global Economy, international relations, and of course, the personal freedoms insured by many nations' own laws and principles.
This is too much. And it always will be. It's why people around the world protested this kind of shit. And yet they're still trying to pass it.

The money is more important than the wishes of the people to them. That's what they're telling us. It's up to we, the peoples of the world, to point out which is more important.

Mike1984
August 26th, 2012, 05:22 PM
http://boingboing.net/2012/08/25/leaked-tpp-the-son-of-acta-w.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Bo ing%29

Looks like we have another contender for Internet Breaker on the table.

God, here we go again.

At least this one doesn't apply to Britain, though....


Lol. Really, they're justified in what they're doing, since, legally, they're protecting their own rights and property.

No, they're not. They do not and cannot own numbers.

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Note that I said *legally.* Practicality and people's beliefs on the matter notwithstanding, so long as the law says they can, they legally can. Doesn't make it right to some people. To others it does.

For example... Jay Z Blue. The man owns a color. All of my wut. Same basic principle.

Further, it seems this infernal thing has been in negotiations for three years already, sliding in under the radar like ACTA.

DB-L
August 26th, 2012, 05:30 PM
I think it's pretty clear that the US Constitution needs a new Amendment added to define and protect Internet rights in order to put a stop to crap like this.

Neir
August 26th, 2012, 05:31 PM
No, they're not. They do not and cannot own numbers.


Yeah. THANKS TO THE CRUSADES :(

Mike1984
August 26th, 2012, 05:32 PM
Note that I said *legally.* Practicality and people's beliefs on the matter notwithstanding, so long as the law says they can, they legally can. Doesn't make it right to some people. To others it does.

Well, duh, they have the legal right to do whatever the law says they have the legal right to do. And, given that they can bribe the government to make any damn law they like (as this proves), that tells us very little.

Further, it is entirely irrelevant to the discussion here, which is a purely moral discussion. Unless you're seriously intending to claim that the government has no legal (as opposed to moral) right to negotiate this treaty....

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Of course not. If that were the case, we wouldn't be having this problem in the first place. I'm just annoyed at this idiocy rearing it's head again. When it's your job to represent the interests of the people, you're supposed to actually listen to those people. Putting down more than a couple of these absurdities already should send a message.
And it has. That message was apparently "Whatever you do, don't get caught."

So, when did our politicians officially devolve to the mentality of children, I wonder.

Mike1984
August 26th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Yeah, definitely. I just think the bit about them having the legal right to do this was totally superfluous and, indeed, counter-productive to the argument as a whole. Of course they have the legal right to do it, because they practically make the damn law....

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2012, 05:52 PM
True. In some cases, they literally make the law. After all, iirc, the head of the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) is a Senator, and they're one of the main backers for these things.

Like I said long ago though, they'll keep this up until the American people or enough nations abroad put their collective feet down. The question is, how to do that while dealing the least amount of damage possible to an already ailing global economy?

Mike1984
August 26th, 2012, 06:02 PM
True. In some cases, they literally make the law. After all, iirc, the head of the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) is a Senator, and they're one of the main backers for these things.

Yeah, exactly....


Like I said long ago though, they'll keep this up until the American people or enough nations abroad put their collective feet down. The question is, how to do that while dealing the least amount of damage possible to an already ailing global economy?

By telling them to go fuck theirselves, because that will cause absolutely no harm whatsoever to the economy.

Counterguardian
September 2nd, 2012, 12:42 AM
I'm sure that's the average Tuesday for them, Mike.

Unfortunately, the only countries with enough weight to make the United States back down from their internet witch-hunt are ironically countries that promote self-censorship. So the current political system is, uh... how do I not put this lightly? Royally fucked to Kingdom Come.


So unless you want to resort to fiscal blackmail and boycott every major corporation that has a stake in the issue, the outlook seems pretty grim. It's pretty much a war of attrition here.

Twelveseal
September 2nd, 2012, 11:02 AM
Oi. More or less the only way they're going to stop, one way or another, is if the American people gets off of our collective asses and actually does something about it. Whether it's peaceful resistance, protests, and boycotts or more violent actions, nothing's going to bet done without sufficient numbers of people supporting it.

The sad thing is, this is the equivalent of the US gov. shooting itself in the foot economically since it has so much influence over the net already. All it's really doing is convincing services which it can profit from to leave the country altogether and head to smaller, less restrictive areas in order to do business. And in turn to blacklist US addresses as a matter of course. This is starting to remind me of Cold War Russia. Certainly nowhere near as bad, but it's more likely to get worse before it gets better.

Mike1984
September 2nd, 2012, 11:24 AM
I'm sure that's the average Tuesday for them, Mike.

Unfortunately, the only countries with enough weight to make the United States back down from their internet witch-hunt are ironically countries that promote self-censorship. So the current political system is, uh... how do I not put this lightly? Royally fucked to Kingdom Come.

Well, yeah, exactly.

China isn't exactly bothered about enforcing copyright, but it's not likely to make much of an effort to fight the US on it, even if it is likely to basically ignore whatever the US says with little or no consequences.


So unless you want to resort to fiscal blackmail and boycott every major corporation that has a stake in the issue, the outlook seems pretty grim. It's pretty much a war of attrition here.

Well, honestly, that's one option. Of course, they'd see such a boycott as justification to clamp down even more, because obviously their sales couldn't be falling because they're fucking incompetent and generally-hated dinosaurs....

I mean, honestly, even if piracy was destroying the music/film industry, with the way they're acting now I would be inclined to say that was a good thing.


Oi. More or less the only way they're going to stop, one way or another, is if the American people gets off of our collective asses and actually does something about it. Whether it's peaceful resistance, protests, and boycotts or more violent actions, nothing's going to bet done without sufficient numbers of people supporting it.

Yeah, exactly.

The US is a democracy, if enough people tell the government to stop it, then they will stop it, no matter how much money they are getting from the MPAA and RIAA. All that money isn't much use if getting it loses you the election, after all.

Further, where do think these assholes get the money that they use to bribe the government in the first place? If people stop paying them, then they will die pretty damn fast. They've used scare tactics and moral blackmail like "piracy funds terrorism" and "piracy is theft" for long enough, I think it's time that we start pointing out that making a legal purchase funds their theft of our basic freedoms....


The sad thing is, this is the equivalent of the US gov. shooting itself in the foot economically since it has so much influence over the net already. All it's really doing is convincing services which it can profit from to leave the country altogether and head to smaller, less restrictive areas in order to do business. And in turn to blacklist US addresses as a matter of course. This is starting to remind me of Cold War Russia. Certainly nowhere near as bad, but it's more likely to get worse before it gets better.

The thing is, these companies couldn't care less if such companies go abroad and blacklist US addresses, because they're not causing harm to their business model any more. And, since when has the US government cared about the long-term prosperity of the country? All they care about is getting re-elected, and all the money these companies give them helps a lot with that.

Mike1984
September 12th, 2012, 02:28 PM
Oh, look what we have here. Yet another attempt to enforce horrible and unpopular pro-corporate rules through treaties no-one even knows exist....

http://tpp2012.com/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/27/pacific-free-trade-deal

Apparently, this is like SOPA, but far worse and much broader. And being negotiated entirely secretly, like ATCA....

Also, http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/1439/content_item/freetpp, if anyone has some spare money and would like to try to stop this thing....

Eveonder
September 13th, 2012, 05:42 AM
... ah crud. They even invited Canada. Some days, it feels as if the government is working against the people--the greater good of exclusive organizations over the rights of the common folk. This rubbish doesn't seem to benefit anyone except corporations. In fact, it detracts from virtually everyone else... what's this about patent rights on pharmaceuticals? Generic drug are more affordable for those that really need it. I can't see any argument for why the TPP is needed.

Mike1984
September 13th, 2012, 07:24 AM
Feels as if?

This makes it abundantly clear that they are working against the people. If they weren't, then they would not be discussing a treaty with significant legal implications behind closed doors, with the intention of passing it before the public ever comes to even know of its existence.

And, no, I can't see any argument for it either, unless you're a big corporation trying to boost its profits. But, then, that's why they're discussing it behind closed doors. If they made it public, it'd never get passed, and they pretty much outright admit that.

The Curious Fan
September 13th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Wikileaks don't fail me now....Leak this bill and start a shitstorm.

Mike1984
September 13th, 2012, 04:29 PM
Wikileaks don't fail me now....Leak this bill and start a shitstorm.

Well, it depends if anyone gets hold of it....

Twelveseal
September 14th, 2012, 07:47 PM
They seem to be getting better at hiding these infernal things.

Mike1984
September 14th, 2012, 08:01 PM
They seem to be getting better at hiding these infernal things.

Yeah, well, I think they're doing better because it's a trade agreement rather than a law. Although, they tried this with ATCA, and got caught....

Crying_Vegeta
September 14th, 2012, 08:15 PM
Mikle LOVES trade agreements/

Twelveseal
September 14th, 2012, 08:32 PM
Hmmm. I don't really have a problem with Trade Agreements, so long as they actually end up improving the economies of the involved parties. In this case, though, it seems like it will do much more harm than good.

Ligerleon89
September 14th, 2012, 08:39 PM
These corporations have a mindset that doesn't even consider what anybody has to say for 5 minutes because they don't have anything that doesn't spell money. And these fools have enough money for the needs and wants every hours,minute, and sec of the day. And some organizations don't even try to benefit from what tech has to offer, they want things to go their way the old fashioned way, and have everything under their control obviously.

- - - Updated - - -

These corporations have a mindset that doesn't even consider what anybody has to say for 5 minutes because they don't have anything that doesn't spell money. And these fools have enough money for the needs and wants every hours,minute, and sec of the day. And some organizations don't even try to benefit from what tech has to offer, they want things to go their way the old fashioned way, and have everything under their control obviously.

Mike1984
September 14th, 2012, 08:42 PM
Hmmm. I don't really have a problem with Trade Agreements, so long as they actually end up improving the economies of the involved parties. In this case, though, it seems like it will do much more harm than good.

Well, this might well help the economy in some ways, it just does so at the expense of the rights of the people, and also at the expense of making people spend more for basic services like healthcare.

Remember that "improving the economy" isn't always a good thing. Paying someone 1000 to eat a pile of shit improves the GDP of the country by 1000. Sure, in many cases it is, but if the improvement to the economy comes from big companies being able to rip off their customers more (which will, again, increase GDP because people will be spending more), then that is not a good thing, overall.

Twelveseal
September 14th, 2012, 09:13 PM
Yes, but in a situation like this, I can see a backfire effect. If the cost of medication rises, with so many people already hard-pressed to pay those prices, the number of sales may drop simply because people can no longer afford to pay. I know I've seen it happen when prices went up or someone's insurance wouldn't cover a prescribed medication, just from standing in line at the pharmacy. They just won't buy it, even if they supposedly need it.

This would mean that people would have to rely on already expensive Insurance policies more, and with that extra reliance and the increased cost of medication, not only will those prices rise, but also the restrictions on who can qualify for them via age and health, cutting out the people who most need those policies. Further, with so many Insurance companies suffering due to the amount of money they're already paying out in policies but aren't making back in payments from the policy-holders, this will only end up costing them more money, further raising the costs of their policies.

The only other option would be to rely on things like Medicare, but that's screwed up just like Social Security since so many people use it already and the government's so deep in debt.

It really seems stupid to me. It feels like it will do more harm than good, even without the damage to the people's rights. Though perhaps I'm misunderstanding such a thing.

Mike1984
September 14th, 2012, 09:21 PM
Yes, it will do more harm than good, but not necessarily to the economy. IPeople will have to spend more money on insurance, and then the insurance companies will have to spend that extra money paying for the new medicines. Sure, so a bunch more people will die from easily-treatable illnesses, but, hey, the economy grew by 1% more, so obviously that's a good outcome, right...?

Remember, all "economic growth" actually is is a measure of how quickly we can shuffle money around. I buy insurance, the insurance company pays for medicines and both companies then pay that money back to their shareholders and employees, who theirselves are buying insurance. It's a big cycle.

Sure, having that cycle move faster is often a good thing, because it means more actually useful things are being produced, but shuffling more money around is only useful if people get a tangible benefit from doing so. If all you're doing is spending more money to get the same product, then there is no such benefit and, thus, it's not a good thing even if it does result in "economic growth".

Dragoon
August 25th, 2013, 12:57 AM
...

It's (http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/08/sopa-felony-copyright-streaming) back... (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-sopa-2013/LMzMVrQF)

ItsaRandomUsername
August 25th, 2013, 01:59 AM
Again? Geez Louise give it a rest already ya narks.

And that's +1 signatures to the signed pet.

RacingeR
August 25th, 2013, 02:10 AM
This ain't gonna stop until it gets passed, methinks.

Ivan The Mouse
August 25th, 2013, 05:51 AM
These petitions aren't actually working at all, and they're just testing the morale of people to resist said laws. That said, nothing's gonna happen until something really happens.

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2013, 05:33 AM
Indeed. So long as members of the US government get funds from the various creative industries, this will be a thing. Just means that folks have to keep telling those companies to stfu and sit back down.

Ivan The Mouse
August 26th, 2013, 07:43 AM
Indeed. So long as members of the US government get funds from the various creative industries, this will be a thing. Just means that folks have to keep telling those companies to stfu and sit back down.

And that's the problem here. Unless the people won't put these corporations back in their line in a massive way, so hard that the wound would subsist for a long time, these laws won't stop coming.

Twelveseal
August 26th, 2013, 05:29 PM
Indeed. But they won't.

Money. In the end, money runs our society. Capitalism, even if incomplete, is at the root of our system, and through it we've gained an influence in effectively every other government on the planet, for good or ill. Money runs everything here. It makes good things appear and bad things disappear. It brings something that claims to be happiness to the people that hold it.

Those who have money naturally attract more money. So, the only way you're going to get these people to shut up is to take away the money that gives them their power in society. Perhaps they truly earned it. Perhaps not. It doesn't matter. At this point, you have to take it from them. And in order to do that, you need more money than they have, more influence.

I don't see that happening. Not with our economy. Not with our trade unions and the number of unemployed. The commoners are poor. The nobles are wealthy. The people have numbers, sure, but the nobles hold only the finest weapons and the best trained soldiers, things against which numbers no longer really matter.

All we can do is keep voting these things down as often as they pop up, and hope that the US gov. retains some sense of its original purpose and ethics. After all, the only way to truly change the system is through revolution, which brands you a terrorist and gets you, and possibly those close to you, dead.

Reminds me of Orwell, Bradbury, and the like.

RadiantBeam
August 26th, 2013, 08:20 PM
So basically what you seem to be saying is, the United States needs to have a revolution?

Lycodrake
August 26th, 2013, 08:23 PM
So basically what you seem to be saying is, the United States needs to have a revolution?
While I hope it doesn't get that bad, it's a possibility. I have a feeling revolution would turn into "Civil War II snowballing into World War III".

Ivan The Mouse
August 26th, 2013, 08:28 PM
All we can do is keep voting these things down as often as they pop up, and hope that the US gov. retains some sense of its original purpose and ethics. After all, the only way to truly change the system is through revolution, which brands you a terrorist and gets you, and possibly those close to you, dead.

And even with voting rights, I've learned it in the hard way that even a so-called peaceful revolution can't really change systems. Maybe because the phrase "peaceful revolution" is a massive oxymoron. Revolutions are never meant to be peaceful. Violence, if present, is optional but revolutions cannot have peace at the same time because they're meant to stir and shake countries, societies or civilizations as a whole. In fact, I can say that the more chaotic the revolution is, the more it would change things.

But one of the biggest mistakes that people do in a revolution is that they equate "chaotic" with "long-running". That's wrong. No nation benefited from prolonged warfare, Sun Tzu said, so how about a rebel force presumably smaller than the government it is facing, especially if they don't know how long this would actually last?

Twelveseal
August 27th, 2013, 06:26 PM
Meh, let me put it this way. A poll of the currently governing politicians here in the US found that roughly 60% of Republicans in office and about 40% of Democrats think a civil war is looming for the US in the near future. The federal government has recently started stockpiling large amounts of ammunition, enough to impact the consumption of such among non-government personnel, with no explanation of why or where it's going. Further, we're having proof of just how much the federal government has been spying on its own people, violating their personal rights and freedoms paraded in front of us on a daily basis here. Even Congress and the Senate don't know how deep the NSA's tendrils dug, who or what they were looking at, and just where that information was ending up. Further, the government is still in the middle of an economic crisis, with excessive unemployment and a nauseating national debt. Add in our lovely whistleblowers, the fiasco that was Wikileaks, and this insane bullshit from the IRS, the ridiculous unpopularity of Obamacare, and the attempts by many states to modify voting requirements that had been federally mandated until recently in order to reduce the number of voters, especially among racial minorities...

Oh, and of course, we're also looking at possible situations where we could become involved in military action with Syria and Egypt. Let's not forget that.

Right now, the people are not happy with their government, yet hold no real power to change things for the better. A revolution probably isn't the right answer. To be more accurate, there probably is no right answer. But the tension is building, and the media's eating it up, stoking the fires through sensationalism, just like it always does. It's a question of whether or not the powder keg that is our society finally goes boom, or if someone manages to douse the flames a bit.

All I can say is, there's a lot fucked up with the government right now. The people see it, and they aren't happy. This is something that's been building for generations. Now, how to solve it, that's the real question.

Ivan The Mouse
August 28th, 2013, 12:07 AM
And the way I see it, perhaps the real solution is for something to happen so massively for no expected reason at all, yet so politically irrelevant both in the long run and having little effect in hindsight, something like a World War One in terms of politics. It could be anything, mind you, not just something violent.

Admit it, the usually happenings on social media like memes or TV shows are keeping the hoi polloi mentally distracted, because screw revolutions if I can't check my FB or Twitter, right? And perhaps the irony here is, despite being a useful tool for revolutions, a massive knowledge bank and/or a catalyst for change, the Internet is also the one thing that keeps the populace busy enough for them to snark away their grudges against the establishment, enough for them to not act up and enough for them not to do anything but mindless pastimes.

Renko
August 28th, 2013, 02:10 AM
I'm beginning to think that they're just putting up these many so-called solutions called Internet & Copyright Protection Laws to tire the people out into opposing it. I mean, for the past months laws like these had been unsuccessfully passed because the people doesn't want it. If we get tired of fighting it....then "Now what?" *scoots away*

Twelveseal
August 28th, 2013, 05:26 AM
Heh, maybe someone should start a petition demanding that the government cease all further attempts at changing internet and copyright laws. If they're not allowed to amend it, then it's a non-issue, right?

I have no idea if that's a viable option or not, though.

Ivan The Mouse
August 28th, 2013, 05:32 AM
Heh, maybe someone should start a petition demanding that the government cease all further attempts at changing internet and copyright laws. If they're not allowed to amend it, then it's a non-issue, right?

I have no idea if that's a viable option or not, though.

I don't think it would be that easy.

Strife ❤️
August 28th, 2013, 05:34 AM
What's going on in this thread then?

http://assets.fontsinuse.com/static/use-media-items/12/11103/full-1730x1730/516d0f79/Homeland-Security-Seal.png

Ivan The Mouse
August 28th, 2013, 05:43 AM
What's going on in this thread then?

I dunno either. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON)