PDA

View Full Version : Nasu Kinoko X Takeuchi Takashi X Urobuchi Gen - Special Forum



Pages : [1] 2

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:36 AM
http://www.tsukikan.com/miscellanea/nasu-kinoko-takeuchi-takashi-urobuchi-gen-special-forum.html

New interview at Tsukikan.

Five_X
March 13th, 2012, 03:39 AM
I saw the first part of the title and thought, "This is the wrong forum for Lemon/Fluff ideas."

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 03:47 AM
Shirou x Saber is officially shounen-ai. Oh god I lol'd.

Annnd they sum up my thoughts on Rin and Sakura romances exactly too. I somehow feel vindicated.

Alter is a dark heroine and Lily is a villain. I will never look at the designs the same again.

Laith
March 13th, 2012, 03:50 AM
Oh god Arashi beat me to post that. Still, you hear that from the mouth of the creators people.

Spinach
March 13th, 2012, 03:50 AM
Move aside everyone, it is now CANON (not really) that Lily is Saber if Caster managed to gain complete control of her!

Also, Alter is Batman.

Laith
March 13th, 2012, 03:57 AM
When I try to write love, it only turns into horror. Thinking about it with a clear head, feeling such deep emotions to some other person you don't even know is truly a terrifying thing. Also, I wonder if love isn't a manifestation of madness in some way


I see. You really did separate "romance" and "love" with your heroines. I was swoon most by Dark Sakura, so I guess I'll never be able to make a proper romance work...

A man after my lack of heart.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 04:04 AM
Alter is a dark heroine and Lily is a villain. I will never look at the designs the same again.
Oh, Urobuchi~~ You madman.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:07 AM
Kotomine is a failed 80s action hero.
Nasu thinks fanfiction is pathetic.
If you like Saber you are gay/bisexual/completely straight if you are a woman.
Rin is the true and best heroine.
Kariya is the true main hero of Fate/Zero.
Lancelot is the strongest Servant, ever.
Saber Lily is evil, presumably because Urobuchi hates women.
Nasu also hates eroge (I ALWAYS SUSPECTED THIS)

STRAIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF THE GODS

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 04:10 AM
No wonder he gave Takeuchi the Jakkuhaamaa~~

And it's more like Urobuchi speaking his mind.

Nasu: (...) Saber and Rin respresent the fun and sweetness of romance. But I wanted to express the tragic nature of love with Sakura.
Nyeah~~

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 04:11 AM
STRAIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF TWO GODS AND A CTHULHUOID

Fixed for you.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 04:15 AM
Fixed for you.
Most of it was said by the Cthulhuoid~~

Junky
March 13th, 2012, 04:48 AM
I will play VNs even ten years in the future.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:53 AM
Dunno about that. Maybe I will grow out of nerd stuff when I am older.

Oh wait, I am already 18. Fuck time.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 04:56 AM
Dunno about that. Maybe I will grow out of nerd stuff when I am older.

Oh wait, I am already 18. Fuck time.
You will never grow out of twintails. You'll wear them until your death. 'c'

Five_X
March 13th, 2012, 05:07 AM
Urobuchi was kind of hilarious in this, though. He still hasn't become any less grimderp than he was before.

"I DON'T UNDERSTAND LOVE"

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 05:10 AM
Uro: When I try to write love, it only turns into horror.
WHAT IS LOVE?
BABY, DON'T HURT ME!
DON'T HURT ME, NO MORE!

*bobs head to the side*

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 05:11 AM
What wonders me is this:
If even Nasu is tired of milking, then who in that company promotes it?
Or is Nasu not tired of getting money and tolerates milking because of that?

(Also, I am sad that any further VN he brings out will be devoid of any love because he apparently doesn't really like the medium (anymore, maybe) )

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 05:12 AM
"I DON'T UNDERSTAND LOVE"

Which is funny, since he has so clearly depicted it before.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luygmauOzS1qe7tdc.jpg

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 05:13 AM
What wonders me is this:
If even Nasu is tired of milking, then who in that company promotes it?
Or is Nasu not tired of getting money and tolerates milking because of that?

(Also, I am sad that any further VN he brings out will be devoid of any love because he apparently doesn't really like the medium (anymore, maybe) )
Takeuchi wants to draw more Sabers!!!!

Seika
March 13th, 2012, 05:54 AM
Urobuchi was kind of hilarious in this, though. He still hasn't become any less grimderp than he was before.

"I DON'T UNDERSTAND LOVE"

It's not his fault, though. It's the WAVES! The ever-mysterious WAVES!



Urob: it's like I receive radio waves, and if I think "something's wrong with the code I got," then I fix it according to how I feel.
Nasu: You instantly fix it? In your head?
Uro: Yep, however the waves tell me to. (laughs)

eddyak
March 13th, 2012, 06:12 AM
Uro: What I imagine is that for the Saber Lily storyline, in*Fate/stay night, Saber was completely beaten by Caster, and so she became one of her Servants. Like, she thought "I'd be way better off with Caster than with Shirou." (Laughs)

Nasu: I never thought of that. Interesting. So in other words, the white dress represents how both her body and soul have been tamed by Caster. So Lily is truly like a "lily" to Caster... you crazy bastard, you did it again...

Takeuchi: Lily's design was inspired by the dress she wore when Saber was captured by Caster. Then, we just filled it with feminine qualities that Saber lacked and it became what it is now. So basically, I think Urobuchi really hit it close to the mark.

Uro: Really?! Lily looked like a villain to me from the moment I saw her. Imagine her appearing from behind Caster, really working those heels! Just thinking of it gets me excited!

LILY IS CASTER-FUCKED. IN DEM HEELS. THIS IS NOW CANON.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 06:20 AM
As canon as any interpretation.

celsius
March 13th, 2012, 07:27 AM
What wonders me is this:
If even Nasu is tired of milking, then who in that company promotes it?
Or is Nasu not tired of getting money and tolerates milking because of that?

(Also, I am sad that any further VN he brings out will be devoid of any love because he apparently doesn't really like the medium (anymore, maybe) )

It's easy to milk when he's not personally doing the milking. A lot of the spin-offs and such are stuff created by other people. All Nasu has to do is sign the 'okay' and let them do their own things while he's busy completely rewriting MahoYoru for the eightieth time.

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 08:02 AM
I am for the most part OK with this interview. Some things were surprising, but not much. Right now I'm just waiting to see Mike's view on this and if he disagrees with Nasu's interpretation.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Following the thread in /fate/, I found this. Urobuchi's comment in a Madoka interview:

For me, perhaps there is part in my thought that said whatever relationship that could exist between male and female it should also exist between couples of same sex. Inside me, I could not imagine a model in which there is something that absolutely could only exist between male and female. Notwithstanding the extra element of male and female sex organs, I do not believe male-female relationship is such a special thing among all the different inter-human relationships. Therefore if I really feel like doing it, I may even try a melodrama between male couples, something like BL.
I look at Waver/Iskandar and Uryu/Gilles and see Uro's dreams come true...

And I completely disagree with his statement that Shirou isn't pursuing Saber because of his male instincts. Quite the opposite (he has to forcibly restrain his thoughts and body), but there are also other factors at stake here. She's a walking dichtomy, just like Rin, but a harder one to manage. Both parts of her personality appeal to him (and he addresses them differently, but is aware of both), and indeed, he wants her.

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 08:13 AM
Oh Keyne, even when Nasu says he wrote her like a man. I'm more curious how Mike is going to respond to Sakura representing the dark side in all women. (actually I have a pretty good idea)
When did we start making threads for individual interviews?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:16 AM
Oh Keyne, even when Nasu says he wrote her like a man.
A man that feels content when another one tells him that he looks good in a skirt. 'c'

What's done is done. Isn't one of the themes in F/sn "Have no regrets"?

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 08:21 AM
A man that feels content when another one tells him that he looks good in a skirt. 'c'


The prior statement did not have the effect I think the author meant it to have.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:24 AM
The prior statement did not have the effect I think the author meant it to have.
Oh well...

All there is to say is "deal with it.".

solopy567
March 13th, 2012, 08:43 AM
Wait a minute...Didn't Nasu say that Saber Lily is Saber who was accepted for her femininity in England and ruled as a woman instead of a man? What's this about her being a villain lol?

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 08:45 AM
Wait a minute...Didn't Nasu say that Saber Lily is Saber who was accepted for her femininity in England and ruled as a woman instead of a man? What's this about her being a villain lol?
It's lolNasu logic, solopy. XP

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:45 AM
Wait a minute...Didn't Nasu say that Saber Lily is Saber who was accepted for her femininity in England and ruled as a woman instead of a man? What's this about her being a villain lol?
Nasu never said anything about her accepting her femininity and ruling England. That's complete fanon.

The other thing is lolUrobuchi.

http://i41.tinypic.com/wb2bl1.jpg

"Rook @ mii. Eye m su ebil! Eye totully a criminul!"

Blastedspider
March 13th, 2012, 08:50 AM
is going to respond to Sakura representing the dark side in all women. (actually I have a pretty good idea)
Well, it also says that Sakura route is about love (accepting each over, even if both are far from perfect), while two other routes are merely "romance" (coming in terms with "what do one likes"). As far as I get it, of course.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:53 AM
(accepting each other, even if both are far from perfect)
Without this you don't even have a romance.

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 09:00 AM
Without this you don't even have a romance.

You're not exactly talking about what they're talking about. Romance is, how Nasu defines it, a singular perspective, not a relationship. Love is a relationship and requires both parties.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:06 AM
You're not exactly talking about what they're talking about. Romance is, how Nasu defines it, a singular perspective, not a relationship. Love is a relationship and requires both parties.
But there has to be some development beforehand. I know that with Saber and Rin everything starts when the war starts and with Sakura things started 1,5 years ago, but it's during the story where the development that creates the romance or love starts. Even in HF, Shirou need a bit of time to know what he really feels.

Flame
March 13th, 2012, 09:07 AM
Uro: There's yet another different type of love depicted in the Sakura route. It really expresses the dark sides that all women have, but how men can accept that and love women regardless. Something akin to the "dignity of men" comes across. Wait, I'm confused. By "dark side", is he referring to Sakura's dark history or Dark Sakura?

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 09:08 AM
Does every woman have a dark unfortunate past?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:09 AM
Wait, I'm confused. By "dark side", is he referring to Sakura's dark history or Dark Sakura?
To Sakura.

Flame
March 13th, 2012, 09:17 AM
Does every woman have a dark unfortunate past? Ah, I see.

In other news,

Nasu: If I had written Fate/Zero, then Iskandar would have been a character like Red Saber
Do not want.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:20 AM
>Kariya is chuuni
>Kariya can't grow up

hahaha yes

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 09:22 AM
Yeah that part was pretty funny.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:28 AM
Also

I have this really powerful core idea of all these English spirits engaged in a Battle Royale

English spirits
Quality translation

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:30 AM
>Kariya is chuuni
>Kariya can't grow up

hahaha yes
Don't forget
>We can easily identify ourselves with Kariya cause he's a shounen character.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 09:30 AM
So I am the only one who's worried about the future of TM and Nasu VNs?

Probably means I read too much into this.

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 09:33 AM
Also


Quality translation

Clearly McJon01 infected them with his insistence we call them British Ghosts.

@Keyne
clearly when they say "ourselves" they mean Nasu, Urobuchi, and Takeuchi.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:35 AM
So I am the only one who's worried about the future of TM and Nasu VNs?

Probably means I read too much into this.
You're waiting for Tsukihime 2 and the remake, of course you're worried. There should be a Last Episode dedicated to you.

I personally think that if they change the medium, it'll be... action games and light novels. But I think they won't just abandon the VN market.

@Keyne
clearly when they say "ourselves" they mean Nasu, Urobuchi, and Takeuchi.
^C^ <(O U)

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:40 AM
Don't forget
>We can easily identify ourselves with Kariya cause he's a shounen character.
Haha yeah. "It's hard to identify with Zero characters because they're mature adults... but Kariya is immature so he has lots of fans!"

Oh burn?

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 09:42 AM
The Caster x Saber lily thing was pretty interesting to me, I would have never thought such a thing but now it kinda makes sense if you think about it. Other then that this was all pretty good stuff to read.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:43 AM
The Caster x Saber lily thing was pretty interesting to me, I would have never thought such a thing but now it kinda makes sense if you think about it. Other then that this was all pretty good stuff to read.
How does it make sense exactly?

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 09:43 AM
^C^ <(O U)
You must speak with words my friend, I do not understand your symbol witch tongue. Anyway, their opinions about the characters and their perceptions about other people's reactions and opinions about the same characters are obviously on two different tiers of reliability. Such blanket generalizations do not apply to the people who could hardly care less about Kariya.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 09:44 AM
It works like in a mindbreak doujin, Keyne. That's why she always looks so happy.

And yet, it's so, so sad ;_;

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 09:44 AM
Mainly how Saber Lily is basically Saber on the Caster route, or you could look at it like she is the realization of what Caster wants Saber to be.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:47 AM
Basically it's Saber as Caster's slave, not exactly the deepest concept.

I'm not going to say it's even remotely canon, though, since it's just Urobuchi's interpretation of a character he didn't have anything to do with.

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 09:48 AM
"Ah, her ahoge snapped off!"

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 09:48 AM
I'll wait for the fanfiction forum to turn this fact into a story of total DARKNESS

Junky
March 13th, 2012, 09:49 AM
As interesting as it is, I don't get how you guys can construe it as canon. Even Nasu and Takeuchi were astonished by that interpretation.

Edit: Sniped by Koto.

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 09:49 AM
I won't let that happen until I get my Shiki with HSDW and Caster.

Also never said it was canon just said it was an interesting concept that makes sense if you think about it.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 09:50 AM
I'll wait for the fanfiction forum to turn this fact into a story of total DARKNESS

How dark is dark?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:50 AM
It works like in a mindbreak doujin, Keyne. That's why she always looks so happy.

And yet, it's so, so sad ;_;
I don't see her with a permanent ahegao, covered in cum and making Churchill's gestures all around, so I kind of find that claim questionable.

Mainly how Saber Lily is basically Saber on the Caster route, or you could look at it like she is the realization of what Caster wants Saber to be.
But there was never a Caster route, so I can't really imagine anything. And what Caster wants to make out of Saber is not that peaceful and graceful girl, but a virgin lusting for cock. Kinda like Sakura'C'

Junky
March 13th, 2012, 09:51 AM
Actually, what could be understood is that Lily has no real back story at all... lol.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:51 AM
Actually, what could be understood is that Lily has no real back story at all... lol.
Yeah pretty much. "Well uh, it was basically just that white dress Saber with girly armour on, so I guess your interpretation fits too"

This translation is a bit silly, how is ヒールっぷり "wearing heels". Kenta would be disappoint.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 09:52 AM
But there was never a Caster route, so I can't really imagine anything. And what Caster wants to make out of Saber is not that peaceful and graceful girl, but a virgin lusting for cock. Kinda like Sakura'C'

Kuzuki is getting a present from Caster

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Actually, what could be understood is that Lily has no real back story at all... lol.
Because she doesn't lol.

Kuzuki is getting a present from Caster
Lol Caster'd rather die. XD

Junky
March 13th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Kuzuki is getting a present from Caster

No way that'd ever happen.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Lol Caster'd rather die. XD

What else can you use your cock loving virgin for, though?

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 09:55 AM
Actually, what could be understood is that Lily has no real back story at all... lol.

Well, that's the fun thing:
What we have now is the closest thing to a canon backstory we'll ever get for her. And thus we must treat "is Casters slave" as absolute canon. Everywhere.

Junky
March 13th, 2012, 09:55 AM
What else can you use your cock loving virgin for, though?

Delight in her pain.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:58 AM
Well, that's the fun thing:
What we have now is the closest thing to a canon backstory we'll ever get for her. And thus we must treat "is Casters slave" as absolute canon. Everywhere.
You're just mad because Nasu said he appreciates spinoffs.

(I thought that part was kinda interesting, about how he started off thinking people were wasting their talent on the Nasuverse instead of making originals, and then he realized they enjoyed it)

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 10:02 AM
It's a very Japanese way of saying he appreciates them, which sounds more like he thinks spinoff work in general is a pathetic thing to do for a creative person.
And no, I am not actually worried about that, but that my tinfoil hat thesis of "Nasu becomes more and more cynical and dislikes the idea of making new VNs" makes more and more sense

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 10:02 AM
You're just mad because Nasu said he appreciates spinoffs.

(I thought that part was kinda interesting, about how he started off thinking people were wasting their talent on the Nasuverse instead of making originals, and then he realized they enjoyed it)

Koto, join me in crossing your fingers and hope for Bacanno people to write a Shinji spin off.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 10:03 AM
Shinji spinoff
by Urobuchi

It would work. Think about it.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 10:05 AM
Does it have BL, I3uster?

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 10:06 AM
BL and Rape, the Urobuchi combo!

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 10:07 AM
Now for the main question, does anyone think this interview will affect the types of Saber Lily pics that are made?

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 10:07 AM
Only if Shinji is the one giving the rapes, though.

Or will the drama be better if he receives?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 10:11 AM
Now for the main question, does anyone think this interview will affect the types of Saber Lily pics that are made?
Nope. Not much.

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 10:13 AM
Though I admite I don't visit the Saber club that much (mainly because by the time I get in there it has already gotten like a hundred new pics.) but do they do something to that degree often?

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 10:13 AM
Now for the main question, does anyone think this interview will affect the types of Saber Lily pics that are made?

It probably goes back to reinforce Caster's original villain role, if anything.

Personally, I can't see the uguu kawaii Caster wife from CP now.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 10:16 AM
Though I admite I don't visit the Saber club that much (mainly because by the time I get in there it has already gotten like a hundred new pics.) but do they do something to that degree often?
No, I don't think so. The worst they do is shipping Saber with a lot of people (which is a thing I naither understand nor find sense in).

Well, now they do that with Gil as well. NEW SHIRT MAGIC, and all that.

Xamusel
March 13th, 2012, 10:19 AM
From what you guys have mentioned, it doesn't seem like I'd like to know what they'd say in the matter further, though it piques my interest as a Nasuverse fan nonetheless.

However... is it translated?

alsir
March 13th, 2012, 10:29 AM
I don't think this has had much of an impact on the type of Lily fanart, as this is some months old for rune readers, actually. Maybe some western fans with skills might jump on it now.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 10:50 AM
It's a very Japanese way of saying he appreciates them, which sounds more like he thinks spinoff work in general is a pathetic thing to do for a creative person.
And no, I am not actually worried about that, but that my tinfoil hat thesis of "Nasu becomes more and more cynical and dislikes the idea of making new VNs" makes more and more sense
Sounds more like the Japanese way of saying "my work is shit, why are talented people paying attention to it, oh god"


I don't think this has had much of an impact on the type of Lily fanart, as this is some months old for rune readers, actually. Maybe some western fans with skills might jump on it now.

hell, I think i told you guys about the lily thing months ago. Nobody cared.

Sherrinford
March 13th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Didn't exactly want to read every post in this thread, so I don't really care if slowpoke.jpg

Anyway, let's discuss.


The ones who stand in their ways, Araya Souren and Kotomine Kirei, are simply people who fought against the world itself and lost in the past -- the main characters from the 80s.

This is really an interesting though. Today's heroes are tomorrow's tyrants.


Nasu: Marvel Comics has so many spin-offs that they can't even keep track of things on their own anymore... everyone keeps widening the world and adding on these interesting parts to it,

Look who is talking here! (The only thing I can say it's that in your case, things haven't spiraled off... yet)


So as a last resort, I had Shirou continually say things to her like "But you're a girl," and "Girls aren't supposed to fight," in order to remind the users that "she is really a girl." It's like the author's actually the one trying to convince Saber that she's a girl...

Isn't that the point of Saber's character development? Realizing that the days of her being the King of Britain are over and that she can finally embrace her feminine side?


In the Rin route, an equal relationship with a woman who's become stronger than men is depicted. Rin and Shirou mend each other's weaknesses with their own unique strengths, and I think it makes for a very nice relationship.

Well, this is true... you may say Saber's relationship with Shirou is a bit unidirectional.


Saber's relationship with Shirou doesn't seem like a realistic relationship between a male and a female,

Yeah, most guys aren't the adopted sons of a wannabe superhero in a world where magic exists, and doesn't summon genderswapped mythological heroes from the past, duh.

At best you can say the Fate route is a bit... idyllic, but that's not bad (especially if the alternative is grimdark).


Uro: Really?! Lily looked like a villain to me from the moment I saw her.

Yeah, she's the very face of evil (is it just me or Urobuchi was being a bit wut-inducing in the last parts of the interview?)


Uro: No, she isn't a villain, she's a dark hero.

Well, I guess that, if you consider Kariya as a dark hero... ok. Maybe. Dunno.



In the end, I really liked Nasu in this interview, while I was a little disappointed by Urobuchi.

Satehi
March 13th, 2012, 10:58 AM
What else can you use your cock loving virgin for, though?

Relevant:

http://www.wakachan.org/fate/src/1331304694227.jpg

eddyak
March 13th, 2012, 11:09 AM
Lol, where are people getting "Caster Saber = permanent cock slave ahegao" from? The whole Caster-torturing-Saber thing seemed a lot like what Shirou was doing (LOL NO GIRLS SHOULD BE IN PRETTY DRESSES AND NOT FIGHTAN), only with less "I loev yuu" and a little more "god damn that young pretty girl".

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:16 AM
That's how mindbreak/rape doujins mostly work, Edd.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 11:18 AM
One could say that Shirou was mindbreaking Saber.

With love?

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 11:22 AM
...I get back to this thread...and see...*this* being brought up...
Good for you all. Never mind.

eddyak
March 13th, 2012, 11:24 AM
One could say that Shirou was mindbreaking Saber.

With love?

Tbh, that's pretty much what he did. "LOL UR WAY OF LIFE IS STUPID U NEED TO QUIT NAO COS YOU HAS A VAGINA".

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:24 AM
One could say that Shirou was mindbreaking Saber.

With love?
At least it doesn't hurt and makes you feel secure.

...I get back to this thread...and see...*this* being brought up...
Good for you all. Never mind.
O no, u stae rite heer.

Mike1984
March 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM
Rin is the true and best heroine.

Erm, that was Urobuchi, not Nasu. His opinion is no more valid or canon than any of ours....


I am for the most part OK with this interview. Some things were surprising, but not much. Right now I'm just waiting to see Mike's view on this and if he disagrees with Nasu's interpretation.

What interpretation? The stuff about Sakura's "dark side" came from Urobuchi, not Nasu. Nasu didn't explicitly disagree with it, but he didn't agree with it either. Nasu said virtually nothing about Sakura there, other than the whole "romance v.s love" bit.


I'm more curious how Mike is going to respond to Sakura representing the dark side in all women. (actually I have a pretty good idea)

Actually, that's not what it said. Urobuchi said that HF expresses the "dark side that all women have". Which is rather different from saying that Sakura herself represents that....


Wait a minute...Didn't Nasu say that Saber Lily is Saber who was accepted for her femininity in England and ruled as a woman instead of a man? What's this about her being a villain lol?

Urobuchi was the one who came up with that idea, not Nasu. Urobuchi is a lot darker and more cynical than Nasu in general.


Well, it also says that Sakura route is about love (accepting each over, even if both are far from perfect), while two other routes are merely "romance" (coming in terms with "what do one likes"). As far as I get it, of course.

Yeah, it sounds to me like Nasu is saying that Shirou x Sakura is a much "deeper" relationship....

Whilst Nasu clearly isn't going to outright favour any one pairing (least of all the least popular one), it certainly seems to me like he's pretty supportative of Shirou x Sakura (Urobuchi less so, however...).


Wait, I'm confused. By "dark side", is he referring to Sakura's dark history or Dark Sakura?

I think it's Dark Sakura, but I'm not 100% sure. It was Urobuchi not Nasu who said it anyway, though, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt. This is the guy who tried to make loli-Sakura dark (and had it vetoed by Nasu), after all....


>Kariya is chuuni
>Kariya can't grow up

hahaha yes

What, trying to protect an innocent girl from being tortured is "not grown up"...?


Haha yeah. "It's hard to identify with Zero characters because they're mature adults... but Kariya is immature so he has lots of fans!"

Oh burn?

No, it's hard to identify with the Zero characters because they're all assholes, Irisviel and Kariya aside.


Well, that's the fun thing:
What we have now is the closest thing to a canon backstory we'll ever get for her. And thus we must treat "is Casters slave" as absolute canon. Everywhere.

Not really. It's not "canon" at all. It's just Urobuchi's interpretation.

eddyak
March 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM
At least it doesn't hurt and makes you feel secure.

So does heroin.

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 11:28 AM
So it's okay as long as it feels good?
*starts taking notes*

@Mike
well he did call the relationship "tragic", and when Uro talks about what the dark side thing Nasu goes off about reality and such. I'd figured you would be angrier at him.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:30 AM
So does heroin.
You're talking from experience, right? :p

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Now drink the kool-aid in the cup, terrablaze.

The comet is going to leave you behind.

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 11:32 AM
Uro: There's yet another different type of love depicted in the Sakura route. It really expresses the dark sides that all women have, but how men can accept that and love women regardless. Something akin to the "dignity of men" comes across.

Nasu: "Romance" is something where one person simply strives to realize their ideals. "Love," on the other hand, is something where two people accept painful realities. There are no ideals to be found there. It's just about coming to terms with reality. They don't even have time to dream... but you can't just keep pushing harsh realities over the hopes and dreams of young people. Let's talk about something more fun!


sounds like he has no problem with this interpretation.

eddyak
March 13th, 2012, 11:35 AM
You're talking from experience, right? :p

Lol, not quite. Have talked to a few people who've had actual experience with addiction, though.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 11:36 AM
The romance/love thing was kind of iffy. (like how Nasu called shirou/Saber's relationship ideal love, but the TL put it as "romance")

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:40 AM
"Romance" is something where one person simply strives to realize their ideals.
I find it strange because to have a romance you need two people sharing that romantic feeling. It is a relationship after all.

Leary
March 13th, 2012, 11:41 AM
Either way, what is there to object to? Sakura and Shirou had to accept some pretty dark realities in order to love one another. Nothing new there.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 11:42 AM
Not really, you don't.
But in this case, it's true. Fate is a beautiful story about two guys and their slowly blooming love :neco_arc:

Leary
March 13th, 2012, 11:45 AM
I can understand Nasu wanting to write his own tyrant in Iksander's wake, but I like how he doesn't even bother to rationalize the genderswap and Saber face. Admit it Nasu, you let business sully your vision!

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:46 AM
Not really, you don't.
But in this case, it's true. Fate is a beautiful story about two guys and their slowly blooming love :neco_arc:
Greatest love story ever told.

Kyte
March 13th, 2012, 11:47 AM
Mike, Kariya went on with things as a shonen hero, 'cept shonen heroes usually have nakama to teach them the value of teamwork. Guess what was Kariya missing the most.
Hint: it's teamwork and communication

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 11:50 AM
Team NTR could've been Kariya's nakama...

Black Sword
March 13th, 2012, 11:53 AM
I agree with the dichotomy of romance and love. I think the simplest example would be the puppy love most teenagers experience. They strive for the "ideal" and don't usually see the "person." When they face the actual person, things begin to unravel because their "ideal" is not a perfect fit for the person, and then they eventually break up, rinse, and repeat the pattern.

Then again, I'm a cynic.

Urobochi's full of it on Lily, though. All in all, a very interesting interview.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:54 AM
Heh, I just had a funny thought... Mikiya is fucking a woman, a man and a void at once. Question: Which one of these is Mana's mother?

Thanks, Luster~~

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 11:55 AM
The male part of her disappeared before he ever started. Technically since the body gives birth to the child...the void?

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 11:56 AM
Well, Mana calls her "Papa" IIRC.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 11:58 AM
Well, Mana calls her "Papa" IIRC.
Mana is a manchild?

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 11:58 AM
I'm pretty sure "Papa" is Mikiya.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 12:01 PM
Really? Well, misrembered that one.

Still, Mikiya doesn't care about gender anyway, someone have Azaka_throws_a_book.jpg?

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 12:01 PM
So...this thread goes from talking about mind-breaking through sex and/or torture, to claiming Shirou did that to Saber...
You lost me when you tried to make it funny. =.=;;;

terraablaze
March 13th, 2012, 12:04 PM
@I3uster
I wish I did.

deviatesfish
March 13th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Huh, no wonder I liked UBW better.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 12:08 PM
So...this thread goes from talking about mind-breaking through sex and/or torture, to claiming Shirou did that to Saber...
You lost me when you tried to make it funny. =.=;;;
I think you missed out a lot of the conversation, Lyco.

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 12:09 PM
I think you missed out a lot of the conversation, Lyco.
I saw some of the other, but that was mainly commenting on lolNasu, lolUrubochi, etc.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 12:21 PM
I saw some of the other, but that was mainly commenting on lolNasu, lolUrubochi, etc.
That lolNasu and lolUrobuchi was the gist of the convo.

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 12:23 PM
That lolNasu and lolUrobuchi was the gist of the convo.
I realize.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 12:46 PM
Anyway, in Fate and UBW Shirou pursued not images of people, but girls who slowly open their hearts to him as they do things together.

Five_X
March 13th, 2012, 01:22 PM
They opened their hearts, but mostly their legs.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 01:25 PM
They opened their hearts, but mostly their legs.
That's Sakura's specialty though. ;)

aldeayeah
March 13th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Anyone else gets this eerie feeling that Urobuchi needs food to get laid badly?

Five_X
March 13th, 2012, 01:50 PM
He's something like 40 or so, and I don't think he's ever had a girlfriend, lol.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 01:54 PM
Anyone else gets this eerie feeling that Urobuchi needs food to get laid badly?
Preferably with a man.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Anyone else gets this eerie feeling that Urobuchi needs food to get laid badly?
Urobuchi needs to get laid... with Food?

Mike1984
March 13th, 2012, 02:01 PM
@Mike
well he did call the relationship "tragic", and when Uro talks about what the dark side thing Nasu goes off about reality and such. I'd figured you would be angrier at him.

I'm not sure what he meant by "tragic", honestly, because he seems to be pretty supportative of them as a pairing, and it doesn't end "tragically". Possibly it's just a bad translation....


sounds like he has no problem with this interpretation.

Not really. What Nasu said does describe HF somewhat, but it has nothing to do with what Urobuchi said....


Either way, what is there to object to? Sakura and Shirou had to accept some pretty dark realities in order to love one another. Nothing new there.

Well, they had to deal with a hell of a lot of dark stuff. There's not really anything that Shirou needed to "accept" about Sakura to love her, though. It's not like "she's been horribly tortured for most of her life" is a reason to not want to be with someone....


Team NTR could've been Kariya's nakama...

Except that Kaneyth is a dick, and would probably gladly support Tokiomi's actions even if he knew what Zouken would do....


I agree with the dichotomy of romance and love. I think the simplest example would be the puppy love most teenagers experience. They strive for the "ideal" and don't usually see the "person." When they face the actual person, things begin to unravel because their "ideal" is not a perfect fit for the person, and then they eventually break up, rinse, and repeat the pattern.

Yeah, exactly.

I think that describes Shirou's relationship with Saber almost perfectly, actually, at least initially. With Sakura, on the other hand, he has a much deeper understanding of her and her position, and loves her for what she is despite all the things that happened to her and which she blames herself for.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 02:05 PM
Urobuchi needs to get laid... with Food?
My sides. I nearly spat out tea on my monitor.

SeiKeo
March 13th, 2012, 02:05 PM
Urobuchi needs to get laid... with Food?

Sounds like a dream pair.

Laith
March 13th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Well, they had to deal with a hell of a lot of dark stuff. There's not really anything that Shirou needed to "accept" about Sakura to love her, though. It's not like "she's been horribly tortured for most of her life" is a reason to not want to be with someone....

Well he needed to accept that protecting her was contrary to his ideal, that whether her fault or not, conscious about it or not, because she lived people were dieing thanks to the shadow, that she wasn't completely normal, that she went evil, again whether her fault or not, etc. So yeah, he accepted a lot of things. So did Sakura.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 02:09 PM
I hate to be all know-it-all and saying "THE TL IS WRONG" because these are just little details, but we read a lot into them when it comes into srsbusiness stuff about shipping, so:

「恋」はひたすらお互いの理想だけをおいかけていくもの。
"'Romance' is when you intently pursue each other's ideal." (Or does it mean a shared ideal?)

So I think Black Sword's interpretation is wrong there. It's not about "one person" or about people seeing someone as their ideal person. Nasu isn't saying "romance is shallow and love is deep", but rather they're opposite sides of the same coin. Something like that.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 02:11 PM
Except that Kaneyth is a dick, and would probably gladly support Tokiomi's actions even if he knew what Zouken would do....

Kariya needs all the help he can get, though.

(he's never going to get any help, is he?)

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Kariya needs all the help he can get, though.

(he's never going to get any help, is he?)
Spoiler: Kariya dies unloved and unappreciated while Sakura stares at him apathetically and thinks he's an idiot.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 02:17 PM
I hate to be all know-it-all and saying "THE TL IS WRONG" because these are just little details, but we read a lot into them when it comes into srsbusiness stuff about shipping, so:

「恋」はひたすらお互いの理想だけをおいかけていくもの。
"'Romance' is when you intently pursue each other's ideal." (Or does it mean a shared ideal?)

So I think Black Sword's interpretation is wrong there. It's not about "one person" or about people seeing someone as their ideal person. Nasu isn't saying "romance is shallow and love is deep", but rather they're opposite sides of the same coin. Something like that.
I knew there was something wrong about that.

This is much better.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 02:20 PM
I knew there was something wrong about that.

This is much better.
Well again, I might have it wrong. But I thought it was sort of fishy how "one person" and "two people" appeared when the text said no such thing (hell "お互い" is "each other, mutual" so I don't think it can​ be one person)

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 02:21 PM
Spoiler: Kariya dies unloved and unappreciated while Sakura stares at him apathetically and thinks he's an idiot.

Dog squish bug world out there.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 02:28 PM
Well again, I might have it wrong. But I thought it was sort of fishy how "one person" and "two people" appeared when the text said no such thing (hell "お互い" is "each other, mutual" so I don't think it can​ be one person)
Even logically thinking, a romance must happen between two people, so it can't talk about single units, but a couple.

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 02:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pamgat1Wro

Shirou and Saber have the better romance, don't worry Keyne.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 02:32 PM
I like that song. The guys really know how to sing. ;-;

VelspertheCat
March 13th, 2012, 02:33 PM
Yeah. It surprised me how well they sung.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 02:37 PM
People seem surprised about the "Saber is like a man" thing.

Did you all fail to notice that she was King Arthur in the first place? Pretended to be a dude? Had a wife? Got a temporary dick and fathered a clone-child?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 02:39 PM
People seem surprised about the "Saber is like a man" thing.

Did you all fail to notice that she was King Arthur in the first place? Pretended to be a dude? Had a wife? Got a temporary dick and fathered a clone-child?
Not in the slightest.

Don't forget "raised as a son".

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:25 PM
http://i41.tinypic.com/91dm9t.jpg

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 03:28 PM
People seem surprised about the "Saber is like a man" thing.

Did you all fail to notice that she was King Arthur in the first place? Pretended to be a dude? Had a wife? Got a temporary dick and fathered a clone-child?

It's just the hillarity of Nasu being almost embarassed about the fact that it apparently still felt like a BL story to Urobuchi.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:31 PM
It's just the hillarity of Nasu being almost embarassed about the fact that it apparently still felt like a BL story to Urobuchi.
Urobuchi likes men. :)

eddyak
March 13th, 2012, 03:31 PM
It's just the hillarity of Nasu being almost embarassed about the fact that it apparently still felt like a BL story to Urobuchi.

I don't think Nasu ever really thought about the fact that he was essentially pairing Shirou up with someone who's pretty much a guy.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 03:32 PM
It's just the hillarity of Nasu being almost embarassed about the fact that it apparently still felt like a BL story to Urobuchi.
Nasu's cute when he's embarrassed.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 03:33 PM
Urobuchi likes men. :)

That's wrong. Urobuchi likes no one.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 03:34 PM
I'm imagining a BL drama between the sadistic bisexual Urobuchi and the innocent closeted gay Nasu.

Takeuchi must use the power of love to save Nasu from Urobuchi's clutches.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:35 PM
Imagine Takeuchi in Saber's getup going to the rescue.

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 03:39 PM
In a maid uniform, you mean!

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:41 PM
In a maid uniform, you mean!
Ah, right! That was a blunder on my part!

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 03:44 PM
It all makes sense.

Nasu and Urobuchi have "love", where they must accept the tragedy of their inability to write happy characters.
Nasu and Takeuchi have "romance", where they strive towards their shared ideal of creating beautiful stories.

It's so beautiful.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:52 PM
Nasi had a breakthrough though. It's in the form of a small, blond girl who became King.

But... wouldn't that make the "love" more tragic, with Urobuchi sacrificing everything to save Nasu from going in that direction?

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 03:54 PM
I wasn't talking about Urobuchi's views Mike, I was talking about Nasu's ideas about romance (which according to Koto is striving for each other's idea, lol'k?) and true "love" and how Sakura and Rin embody love more while Saber's romance.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 03:58 PM
According to Nasu, Rin is also 'romance'.

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 04:01 PM
FUCK YES, SABER X SHIROU AND SHIROU X SAKURA FOREVAH RABU, RABU EVERYWHERE

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 04:04 PM
Type snapped. ;_;

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:05 PM
Is this the point where I have to post a Rin picture without any context?
Help me Keyne, I am new at this shipping wars thing.

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 04:08 PM
I think this is the point where I start saying how true Kuzuki and Caster's love is compared to Shirou and any of the heroines.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 04:08 PM
Is this the point where I have to post a Rin picture without any context?
Help me Keyne, I am new at this shipping wars thing.
Wrong person, dude.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:09 PM
Wait, that's supposed to be after the picture, Milbunk.

Okay, everybody back to their starting point, we are getting this stuff all mixed up.

Five_X
March 13th, 2012, 04:09 PM
Maybe Kinoko is actually a woman and has been cleverly hiding it all this time with azn skills.

Milbunk
March 13th, 2012, 04:09 PM
Alright let me know when you post the picture so I can start ranting about Caster.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Maybe Kinoko is actually a woman and has been cleverly hiding it all this time with azn skills.
There is an LQ picture of him floating around on the nets. He's a guy.

Five_X
March 13th, 2012, 04:14 PM
There is an LQ picture of him floating around on the nets. He's a guy.

Oh, really? Is he a guy... or a girl that LOOKS like a guy!?

Beware of reverse traps!

Leary
March 13th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Well, they had to deal with a hell of a lot of dark stuff. There's not really anything that Shirou needed to "accept" about Sakura to love her, though. It's not like "she's been horribly tortured for most of her life" is a reason to not want to be with someone....
What Laith said, but also "she's been horribly tortured for most of her life" is a very good reason to hesitate about being with someone. Can you imagine how difficult that relationship would be outside of rosy happy ending scenes? It would be highly irresponsible for Shirou to act without deeply considering and accepting the fact that she's got baggage, and he won't always be able to do anything about it.

Edit: Picture of Nasuko, er Nasu? Where?

Spinach
March 13th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Oh, really? Is he a guy... or a girl that LOOKS like a guy!?

Beware of reverse traps!

I can fap to this.

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 04:20 PM
Nasu thinks fanfiction is pathetic.

thought, past tense

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:25 PM
Why that? (Also that wasn't entirely serious, should be obvious with the rest of the comments being "Lancelot is the strongest Servant" and "Liking Saber makes you gay")

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 04:35 PM
Why that?

nasu said he thought it was until he read the comment by the manga author for tsukihime.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:46 PM
And then he repeats it with a softened impact in the X-Men paragraph.

Lianru
March 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Oh god I read the title and was like "what".

And now I will forever be unable to see Saber Lily in the same light ;u;

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 04:54 PM
And then he repeats it with a softened impact in the X-Men paragraph.




there's a serious difference in situation there especially given marvel's business practices. i doubt it's repeating the idea that fanfiction sucks or such.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Well to me it seems like...

Wait, I don't have a point here. Forget what I said.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 05:07 PM
Oh god I read the title and was like "what".

And now I will forever be unable to see Saber Lily in the same light ;u;
Of course you will. It's easy.

Hen_Ichi
March 13th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Oh god I read the title and was like "what".

And now I will forever be unable to see Saber Lily in the same light ;u;We need Saber lily with a Nero expression and heels.

Possibly Caster and a leash also.



Whyfor is Gen sitting there and yakking about Nasu's stories like he's always been there D:
Well gee. Sounds like it's not just gaming, but avidly reading every single spinoff of his own stories D:
I'm imagining the Type-Moon staff using one of HOUHOUIN KYOUMAAA's catchphrases whenever they see Saber now XD

On the other hand, I think the true heroine of Fate/stay night is Rin. In the Rin route, an equal relationship with a woman who's become stronger than men is depicted. Rin and Shirou mend each other's weaknesses with their own unique strengths, and I think it makes for a very nice relationship.
YEEEAAA- Wait. This is from the outsider =|

Uro: What I imagine is that for the Saber Lily storyline, in Fate/stay night, Saber was completely beaten by Caster, and so she became one of her Servants. Like, she thought "I'd be way better off with Caster than with Shirou." (Laughs)

Nasu: I never thought of that. Interesting. So in other words, the white dress represents how both her body and soul have been tamed by Caster. So Lily is truly like a "lily" to Caster... you crazy bastard, you did it again...

Takeuchi: Lily's design was inspired by the dress she wore when Saber was captured by Caster. Then, we just filled it with feminine qualities that Saber lacked and it became what it is now. So basically, I think Urobuchi really hit it close to the mark.

Uro: Really?! Lily looked like a villain to me from the moment I saw her. Imagine her appearing from behind Caster, really working those heels! Just thinking of it gets me excited!

Takeuchi: But in terms of villains, don't we already have Alter?

Uro: No, she isn't a villain, she's a dark hero.

Nasu: Alter is an idealist who clings to her own values even though she's been blackened. In that respect, she isn't a pure villain.

Uro: For example, Alter's like how Hakaider was in Mechanical Violator Hakaider (*8). And Lily is the enemy she would face. The wrinkles in the corners of her eyes are proof to that. She'd shine as a villain.

Nasu: Then after defeating Lily in battle, Alter would jump on a motorbike in the last scene and ride off into the sunset. Then the narration would come in: "She is a modern knight, who lives in a world of darkness!" (*9)

Takeuchi: Motorbikes aside, (Laughs) I do think it'd be interesting to add meat to Lily's character in that manner.I approve and henceforth this text forever revises my opinion on Alter and Lily

But really - Nero = Female Gilgamesh XD

and English Spirits. =|

Uro: When I try to write love, it only turns into horror. Thinking about it with a clear head, feeling such deep emotions to some other person you don't even know is truly a terrifying thing. Also, I wonder if love isn't a manifestation of madness in some way. These thoughts gave birth to that work. On the other hand, I realized that displaying "love as a reward" is impossible for me.Confirmation that this creature is grimdark to the very depths of his soul in his own words =|

Takeuchi: The cute visuals of Saya are so different from the gap of her true form. I bet you were planning to shock the users that way, but I think a surprising number of them just got more moe mileage out of her as a result. I was seriously frightened, and played the game while covering my head with a blanket. (Laughs)For some reason I thought Negaverse Tusia =|

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 05:45 PM
inb4NasuhasreadElffanficandnowhatesArcher

But this benefits me moist of all OH GOD IM SO MOIST MAN, THE MOISTEST. According to an alternate translation by Koto, Saber x Shirou's love is ideal, DA BEASTESTOSTOEST OERNE, , while Sakura x Shirou is the only true love asdgjfgkygfgfdwqueirol;tuofjdnhbgfdvaxzXACrhtajeAS Y6W4Q54352QW xzADghjk,./

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Someone call an ambulance.

Xamusel
March 13th, 2012, 05:46 PM
...Translation, please, Type?

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 05:47 PM
I think TW is having a seizure. =P

Sunny
March 13th, 2012, 05:48 PM
Mmm, Urobuchi being there kind of makes sense, like he officially got into the club since Zero's part of their canon. Even if most of his input seems to be epicly ruining Nasu's mental image of things forever.

I thought it was pretty interesting to hear Nasu's motivations for Nero and what he thought of Iskander. It's refreshing to know he put thought into the Extra Servants too, since I was unclear how much involvement he actually had in their individual designs.

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 05:51 PM
But seriously, this now validates all my opinions, so I'm better than you.

Xamusel
March 13th, 2012, 05:52 PM
...

...

Wouldn't go that far, Type, just saying.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 05:53 PM
But not liking Rin invalidates all of your opinions again.
A vicious cycle.

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 06:02 PM
Better! BEEEEEEEEETEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEE

Xamusel
March 13th, 2012, 06:06 PM
...I think Type is trying to troll us.

Don't feed him, please, whoever might be living with him.

Mike1984
March 13th, 2012, 06:18 PM
Well he needed to accept that protecting her was contrary to his ideal, that whether her fault or not, conscious about it or not, because she lived people were dieing thanks to the shadow, that she wasn't completely normal, that she went evil, again whether her fault or not, etc. So yeah, he accepted a lot of things. So did Sakura.

But, protecting her is not "against his ideal". His ideal is to save everyone, and Sakura is "someone", so....


I wasn't talking about Urobuchi's views Mike, I was talking about Nasu's ideas about romance (which according to Koto is striving for each other's idea, lol'k?) and true "love" and how Sakura and Rin embody love more while Saber's romance.

Well, it's not like Sakura really has much of an "ideal" for Shirou to strive towards, and Shirou's relationship with Sakura clearly overrides his ideal rather than complimenting it (although I don't buy the whole "Shirou's true ideal would be to kill Sakura at the first opportunity" thing...), so that does make sense.


What Laith said, but also "she's been horribly tortured for most of her life" is a very good reason to hesitate about being with someone. Can you imagine how difficult that relationship would be outside of rosy happy ending scenes? It would be highly irresponsible for Shirou to act without deeply considering and accepting the fact that she's got baggage, and he won't always be able to do anything about it.

Edit: Picture of Nasuko, er Nasu? Where?

Well, it is true that it will be hard, but mainly for Shirou, really. Further, I'd say that it would be far more "irresponsible" for him to just say "screw her, there's nothing I can do" and dump her....

TypeWannabe
March 13th, 2012, 06:18 PM
Ah yes, because wishing starvation upon somebody who not a short while ago was close to running out of food with no way to replenish it is in no way overreacting to somebody trying to just live a little. You are just such a great person.

Laith
March 13th, 2012, 06:27 PM
But, protecting her is not "against his ideal". His ideal is to save everyone, and Sakura is "someone", so....

Yes, which is why is going against it. He is placing her above everyone else. Remember Shirou's is all about saving everyone equally not saving someone first, the others later. But eeh enough derail.

Leary
March 13th, 2012, 06:40 PM
Well, it is true that it will be hard, but mainly for Shirou, really. Further, I'd say that it would be far more "irresponsible" for him to just say "screw her, there's nothing I can do" and dump her....
I meant if Shirou, or whoever if put in a similar situation, wasn't up to taking responsibility for that kind of relationship then it would be better to back off. Not necessarily tossing her out the window or anything.

@Laith: I don't think anyone ever bothered to lay down the tracks for this train.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 07:21 PM
Antagonist-Lily and Anti-Hero-Alter? Definitely sounds like a Nitroplus thought process.

And you know what? I'd fund it, too. A battle vs. Lily = Win.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 07:22 PM
I approve and henceforth this text forever revises my opinion on Alter and Lily
What happened to "Coming from an outsider. =|"?

Antagonist-Lily and Anti-Hero-Alter? Definitely sounds like a Nitroplus thought process.

And you know what? I'd fund it, too. A battle vs. Lily = Win.
You'd fund anything. 'c'

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 07:24 PM
What comes out of Urobuchis mouth is more canon than side materials.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 07:25 PM
What comes out of Urobuchis mouth is more canon than side materials.
I don't want to know what comes out of his mouth. :s

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 07:26 PM
http://i.imgur.com/tV9Cz.jpg

(insert Breach as BGM here)

OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIIIIIIIT


...I can see where Gen was coming from now.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 07:28 PM
I'm laughing.

I3uster
March 13th, 2012, 07:29 PM
THE FACE OF EVIL! IT TORTURES MY SOUL!

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 07:30 PM
She'll be smiling like that the whole time your entrails are staining Caliburn's blade.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 07:30 PM
THE FACE OF EVIL! IT TORTURES MY SOUL!
RUN TO THE HILLS! SHE'S GONNA HUG YOU!

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 07:31 PM
Lily is Lancer to Gen's Archer. They just can't get along.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 08:13 PM
Black crashes against white.

Sparks scatter, illuminating the place designated as their battlefield like a flashing, miniaturized sun casting its light on the two dueling knights. One in darkened armor tainted black as the color of her murky, distorted soul viewed from the lens of the world; the other garbed in the purest of angelic whites, highlighting her true corruption in the most perverse of ironies.

This clash was a clash for justice, a justice that the disillusioned black knight wanted with all of her broken heart, and a justice that the white knight would so cruelly, vehemently deny.

------Two women fought against each other.

Her strikes were hard, fast, fueled by her determined rage. Each of her attacks appeared as a blur of black and red brutally smashing towards her opponent.

Her attacks, on the other hand, were entirely different in execution, but nevertheless just as lethal. Every one of her movements was elegant, gracefully parrying her enemy's brutish blows and mercilessly snaking in between openings left by the black knight.

In this fight, she looked like nothing less than a dancing noblewoman with her partner the sword she wielded, the picture of elegance and refinement. She was a ray of light in contrast with the dirty-black smudge she was going against.

...She grinned beatifically...
...She glared angrily...

It was as if the girl in white was mocking everything that she stood for simply by existing-----!

The fight continues, not even stopping for a millisecond.



Scenario:
Antihero-Alter vs. KnightTemplar!Lily.


Thanks Urobochi, you're awesome.

Hen_Ichi
March 13th, 2012, 08:16 PM
Replace Ruka with Saber =3

http://youtu.be/Tc26WYGdGUA

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 08:19 PM
Replace Ruka with Saber =3
*snip*
Except Ruka is a Trap. Saber is a Reverse Trap (aka Bifauxnen).
There's a difference. XP

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:20 PM
The hell did I just read?

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 08:22 PM
A glimpse into a simulation of Urobochi Gen's mind, of course.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:23 PM
Excuse me, I need to get the f*** out of this thread for a moment.

Arashi_Leonhart
March 13th, 2012, 08:25 PM
A glimpse into a simulation of Urobochi Gen's mind, of course.

Not enough horrors of eldritch power.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 08:36 PM
Where else do you think they are having their epic duel?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:42 PM
In hell.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 08:43 PM
Potato, poh-tato.

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 08:48 PM
i for one will never see lily as a bad guy. i shall never accept it

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:50 PM
i for one will never see lily as a bad guy. i shall never accept it
Welcome to my world.

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 08:53 PM
Welcome to my world.

*grabs keyne* she will remain pure due to our faith! believe Keyne, pierce the darkness with your fandom!

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 08:55 PM
>implying Lily isn't just Saber in a pretty outfit used for marketing and eyecandy based on her dress in Unlimited Blade Works and is actually a character with known, accepted backstory

Still, gotta love multiple character interpretation man, especially for non-canon side materials. It's a box of fun and goodies for the creative mind. Where one sees a figure devoted to love and peace and acceptance another can see a figured twisted to the wills of a Greek witch running in full-villain mode.

Lovely~

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 08:55 PM
*grabs keyne* she will remain pure due to our faith! believe Keyne, pierce the darkness with your fandom!
I'd rather pierce the Heavens with MAH DRILL!

Lycodrake
March 13th, 2012, 08:55 PM
>implying Lily isn't just Saber in a pretty outfit used for marketing and eyecandy and is actually a character with known backstory
IRUN speaks truth.
Isn't it sad, Keyne, lantz? =P

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 09:00 PM
IRUN speaks truth.

an icky sticky truth that is no fun, as a writer i'll substitute a cool back story of some kind because by grey skull i have the powwwwwwwwwwwwer!

:P


I'd rather pierce the Heavens with MAH DRILL!

then do so.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 09:03 PM
an icky sticky truth that is no fun, as a writer i'll substitute a cool back story of some kind because by grey skull i have the powwwwwwwwwwwwer!

You are most entitled too, sir.

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:03 PM
>implying Lily isn't just Saber in a pretty outfit used for marketing and eyecandy based on her dress in Unlimited Blade Works and is actually a character with known, accepted backstory
Because she's not. ^_^

an icky sticky truth that is no fun, as a writer i'll substitute a cool back story of some kind because by grey skull i have the powwwwwwwwwwwwer!
Ok, that made me laugh.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Because she's not. ^_^

>still implying

But I digress. Who am I to say what you can or cannot think?

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:14 PM
>still implying

But I digress. Who am I to say what you can or cannot think?
Not implying at all. What Urobuchi (who was nowhere near the production of the character) said because he thinks so, and what's presented not only in the side materials BUT THE ACTUAL GAME TO WHICH THE CHARACTER BELONGS (No separate route, no backstory, Saber's start, mid-boss, boss and ending), have nothing to do with each other.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 13th, 2012, 09:17 PM
IE Saber in a pretty dress.

Fair enough. Still, I felt like toying with the idea for kicks.

Kyte
March 13th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Oh for fuck's sake. It's Saber. In a dress. Completely lacking in any backstory whatsoever. (A blurb doesn't count)

Urobuchi posited one deliciously fun idea, which we're latching onto as lampreys because fuck if it ain't a fun one.

Plus, Saber is boring, she needs something to spice her up. :V

Kotonoha
March 13th, 2012, 09:46 PM
Plus, Saber is boring, she needs something to spice her up. :V
*twitch*

Keyne
March 13th, 2012, 09:47 PM
You got a freaking cold killing machine in the fun pack together with your "boring" unseasoned Saber. Have fun with that.

I know the Saber I read about in F/SN is quite interesting.

lantzblades
March 13th, 2012, 09:53 PM
Plus, Saber is boring, she needs something to spice her up. :V

sure you go on believing that.

*goes over to the night stand to pick up his copy of the once and future king*

i on the other hand will go on knowing she's awesome.

ragna92
March 13th, 2012, 10:45 PM
boring people can be awesome too.

Altima of the Gates
March 13th, 2012, 11:13 PM
So I think Black Sword's interpretation is wrong there. It's not about "one person" or about people seeing someone as their ideal person. Nasu isn't saying "romance is shallow and love is deep", but rather they're opposite sides of the same coin. Something like that.

Yeah, both are different parts of a relationship. Saber and Rin's relationships are the fruits of blooming love, or romance. Where one bonds with another because of the the attraction of ideals (Saber) or personality(Rin). Sakura's is an example of a trial that love can face, and then walking together afterward. Neither is stronger or weaker than the other, they are just the different seasons of a relationship.

It's just different seasons of life, not whether one is better than the other.

I3uster
March 14th, 2012, 03:28 AM
Yeah, it's not the relationship that's superior. It's just Rin.

As for the "boring" argument...It kinda shows that she either needs despair or Shirou to become really interesting as a character imo.
But when that happens she shows quite a lot of interesting facets of her personality.

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 03:43 AM
Where one bonds with another because of the the attraction of ideals (Saber) or personality(Rin).
Shirou felt attracted to Saber from the moment she appeared and to Rin a bit earlier. It's not just the ideals in one and personality in the other that he liked. You're implying that if those "defining" characteristics changed just a bit, he'd stop liking them. Furthermore, don't rob Saber of personality and Rin of ideals.

Five_X
March 14th, 2012, 03:49 AM
^ TL;DR: Shirou is just a horny teenager, move along.

Junky
March 14th, 2012, 03:50 AM
Shirou felt attracted to Saber from the moment she appeared and to Rin a bit earlier. It's not just the ideals in one and personality in the other that he liked. You're implying that if those "defining" characteristics changed just a bit, he'd stop liking them. Furthermore, don't rob Saber of personality and Rin of ideals.

I'm a Saber fan but I've got to say that personality wasn't what attracted Shirou to her. At least initially. It wasn't ideals either, because he didn't know her. Shirou's just a sucker for any girl.

And Rin doesn't have any clear ideals.

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 03:55 AM
^ TL;DR: Shirou is just a horny teenager, move along.
If he is, then that applies to every girl. Let's devise a new Jedi code!

"There are no feelings, there's just my dick..."

I3uster
March 14th, 2012, 03:58 AM
Well, with Rin it certainly was "being horny" at first. She's the most attractive girl at his school, so that's not really surprising.

Five_X
March 14th, 2012, 04:11 AM
He says he's one of her "admirers."

Late at night. With a box of Kleenex.

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 04:19 AM
He says he's one of her "admirers."

Late at night. With a box of Kleenex.
See? He's putting his love down on paper. He just does it every night because he can't find the right words. 'c'

Ruu-tan
March 14th, 2012, 05:52 AM
Urobuchi has successfully corrupted many minds in a few sentences. *shakes head*

Kyte
March 14th, 2012, 08:33 AM
*twitch*
I can't help but feel inordinately proud of this reaction.


You got a freaking cold killing machine in the fun pack together with your "boring" unseasoned Saber. Have fun with that.

I know the Saber I read about in F/SN is quite interesting.

Well, the :V signifies facetious and possibly trolling comments, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But honestly, I do find her to be meh in the overall scale of things. She's not a very proactive personality, her development is significantly driven by Shirou rather than by her own will, and that's not my preferred cup of tea, so she ranks down in my eyes. Incidentally, it's one of the reasons why I find Sakura to be rather meh as well (and why the CP version was funny as fuck).
I consider Alter to be essentially a different character, btw.

Altima of the Gates
March 14th, 2012, 09:23 AM
Shirou felt attracted to Saber from the moment she appeared and to Rin a bit earlier. It's not just the ideals in one and personality in the other that he liked. You're implying that if those "defining" characteristics changed just a bit, he'd stop liking them. Furthermore, don't rob Saber of personality and Rin of ideals.

A bit touchy are we? I never meant that he never liked her physically, or found other things he liked about her. I'm stating the basis of their relationship, that doesn't mean that they lack those traits. Look at my sig, I ain't one of the people calling her boring here, lol.

And if I was assuming that, I would be also saying that Sakura has no personality or ideals, and that is not true.

Spinach
March 14th, 2012, 09:37 AM
You're all too damn touchy about this subject. Can't we just make funny jokes about Alter being Batman and Urubochi being a grimderp permavirgin for life?

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 09:44 AM
I wonder what type of man Uro likes.

Altima of the Gates
March 14th, 2012, 09:44 AM
You're all too damn touchy about this subject. Can't we just make funny jokes about Alter being Batman and Urubochi being a grimderp permavirgin for life?
What are you talking about? There must be One Coupling to rule them all, One Coupling to find them, One coupling to bring them all and in the darkness do unnatural and kinky things to them. That is the rule.

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 09:45 AM
What are you talking about? There must be One Coupling to rule them all, One Coupling to find them, One coupling to bring them all and in the darkness do unnatural and kinky things to them. That is the rule.
The One Ring suddenly becomes The One Condom.

I3uster
March 14th, 2012, 09:48 AM
You're all too damn touchy about this subject. Can't we just make funny jokes about Alter being Batman and Urubochi being a grimderp permavirgin for life?

http://i.imgur.com/Zf3UM.jpg

Spinach
March 14th, 2012, 09:52 AM
What are you talking about? There must be One Coupling to rule them all, One Coupling to find them, One coupling to bring them all and in the darkness do unnatural and kinky things to them. That is the rule.

I... but... you... that... fine.

Fine. I will play your game, and I will win. Then once I have crushed your internet spine so hard that even Yugi Moto can't mind crush you back into acceptable mental health you will cease these pointless shipping wars.

And now that I've typed up this little challenge I just realized that I give absolutely zero fucks about shipping wars, so I have no idea on how I'll win. So... I guess I give up. Well played.

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 10:00 AM
I... but... you... that... fine.

Fine. I will play your game, and I will win. Then once I have crushed your internet spine so hard that even Yugi Moto can't mind crush you back into acceptable mental health you will cease these pointless shipping wars.

And now that I've typed up this little challenge I just realized that I give absolutely zero fucks about shipping wars, so I have no idea on how I'll win. So... I guess I give up. Well played.
You start with calling Sakura a slut. 'C'

aldeayeah
March 14th, 2012, 10:03 AM
I wonder what type of man Uro likes.
I think it's rather obvious that he likes the monster mushroom type.
The whole interview feels like he was saying increasingly outrageous stuff to elicit a reaction from him...

Keyne
March 14th, 2012, 10:07 AM
I think it's rather obvious that he likes the monster mushroom type.
The whole interview feels like he was saying increasingly outrageous stuff to elicit a reaction from him...
Ah, he wants some of that mushroom soup, eh?