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EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Death, death, and more death has been plaguing the village you all have been calling home. Corpses with many a bullet hole lined the streets for several agonizing weeks until what small number of you villagers left decided to take action. No longer with the scum which calls themselves the mafia will have their way with you all! It has been decided from this day onward that once a day, people will lynch a person which they suspect to be part of the mafia. Of course, popular vote will determine who gets this gruesome fate.

However, the mafia wishes to eliminate the village and use this land to set up camp to start their own enterprise. Once a night, these criminals in the shadow will meet up in order to determine which person shall die.

With the lines drawn, who will weather out this storm?

Rules
1. Days will last for 48 hours or a player receives more votes than half the number of players still alive to get lynched
2. Nights will last for 24 hours. Roles which require PMing the host to select their target have to do so by this time frame else they don't target anyone. Should you have a role which can target a player and wish not to use it, simply have "ABSTAIN" as the title for the PM.
3. Roles of people who die will be revealed.
4. Unless you are a member of the masons or mafia, chatting is restricted to this thread during the day.
5. No posting is to occur in this thread during the night except by the GM(me for those who didn't know that).
6. Once a player posts in this thread, that post cannot be edited or deleted.
7. Lynch votes should be in bold.
8. Dead men tell no tales (no dead players can post in the game thread)

Player List:
1. Chacho (Mason)
2. Mike1984 (insane cop)
3. RR121 (cop)
4. The forumite formerly known as KT
5. Yun (villager)
6. Satehi (goon)
7. gesalt (Vigilante)
8. Chaos Greyblood (Doctor)
9. 2ndsly (villager)
10. anamesis (villager)
11. Detective Blackstone (Godfather)
12. Enhance (goon)
13. Lianru (goon)
14. Erlkonig (villager)

Role List:
Village Faction:
Cop
Insane Cop
Doctor
Vigilante
Mason
Mason
Villager
Villager
Villager
Villager

Mafia Faction:
Godfather
Goon
Goon
Goon

- - - Updated - - -


DAY 1 BEGINS

You all have 48 hours until this day ends to vote for someone to lynch.

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 02:32 PM
OK, so, for those of us who haven't played before, what do all the different roles mean?

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 02:39 PM
The Cop inspects a player to learn their role
The Insane Cop (only knows self to be a cop) randomly gets a result, but can identify the Godfather
The Doc protects a player from death
The Vig can kill a player
The Mason can speak to their fellow mason members
Villagers get no extra ability
Goons are the mafia equivalent of villagers
The Godfather is a mafia member who checks out as clean to the cop

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 02:50 PM
So, decisions... decisions.

Who's who? That's the question of the day.

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 02:52 PM
Well, yes. Unfortunately, we have zero information at this point in time, which makes making a decision somewhat difficult....

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 02:54 PM
All we can do is make assumptions, we have to go by instinct to root out the mafia that infests our fine village.

SeiKeo
October 10th, 2012, 02:58 PM
I think we should kill someone.

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Yeah, well, I'm not even sure if we want to lynch anyone at all at the moment. We have more chance of hitting people actually useful to us as we have of hitting mafia, and we have quite a few roles that are useful in the later game but not much use now (for example, if the two masons survive to the end, they are exceptionally powerful, whereas right now they're pretty weak).

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I think we should kill someone.

You mean Lynch?

Well, I'll go with my gut. Sorry ana but you seem like mafia material to me.

[Lynch anamesis]

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:02 PM
I'm tempted to accuse you, given your willingness to jump on some random person who isn't even here to defend theirselves....

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:05 PM
No, I was just making a random guess. Plus, if ana is mafia, now is the perfect time to strike when they are caught unawares. A perfect chance to blindside them.

It could backfire though, if he's an important member of the village. Is it possible to recede votes?

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 03:06 PM
I think we should kill someone.

You're a good man, Leo. You know that?

SeiKeo
October 10th, 2012, 03:07 PM
You're a good man, Leo. You know that?

GM confirmed me for cop, nobody kill me.

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:07 PM
No, I was just making a random guess. Plus, if ana is mafia, now is the perfect time to strike when they are caught unawares. A perfect chance to blindside them.

It could backfire though, if he's an important member of the village. Is it possible to recede votes?

Yeah, votes can be changed at any time prior to someone being lynched, I believe.

Also, making "random guesses" is a little questionable, since if you are mafia then it's only in your interests to do that, whereas if you are a villager you have a 9/13 chance of hitting another villager, and a 5/13 chance of hitting a villager with useful powers. Although, I'm not entirely sure what it means when it says that the insane cop can detect the Godfather, if they get random responses....

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:08 PM
Leo sounds suspicious as well.

"I think we should kill someone?" Mafia thinking right there.

Alright, instead of anamesis I think Leo might be mafia.

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:09 PM
Well, yes, Leo did sound suspicious, on the other hand what he said is almost too obvious.

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:11 PM
Wait, is he even in this game?

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 03:11 PM
Yeah, votes can be changed at any time prior to someone being lynched, I believe.

Also, making "random guesses" is a little questionable, since if you are mafia then it's only in your interests to do that, whereas if you are a villager you have a 9/13 chance of hitting another villager, and a 5/13 chance of hitting a villager with useful powers. Although, I'm not entirely sure what it means when it says that the insane cop can detect the Godfather, if they get random responses....

The Godfather is the only one that the insane cop can investigate and not get a random response.

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Yeah, I don't Leo's name on the list...

So, I guess not.

Yun
October 10th, 2012, 03:15 PM
I think we should kill someone.Why do you support killing someone without due process? Furthermore doing so is a statistically poor option for us to make considering it there is only being a 29% chance of it resulting in a mafia death.

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:17 PM
I don't think Leo is even in the game. However, if he is...

[Lynch Leo]

Yun
October 10th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Go to Night

I don't think Leo is even in the game. However, if he is...

[Lynch Leo]It would appear he isn't and I merely assumed he was due to him posting in the thread.

gesalt
October 10th, 2012, 03:22 PM
he isn't in the game he's just messing with everyone. as for my vote i'm for leaving off lynching for the first day until we see what happens during the night.

SeiKeo
October 10th, 2012, 03:22 PM
Why do you support killing someone without due process? Furthermore doing so is a statistically poor option for us to make considering it there is only being a 29% chance of it resulting in a mafia death.

Uh, due process protected by who, you liberal pinko commie.

Yun
October 10th, 2012, 03:24 PM
@EF Wait we can vote for a no lynch right?

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 03:27 PM
@EF Wait we can vote for a no lynch right?

You can if you want to. Though, is it wise to give the mafia a head start?

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I don't Leo's name on the list...

So, I guess not.

Oh, yeah, so he isn't....

Are non-players supposed to get involved in the discussion...?


he isn't in the game he's just messing with everyone. as for my vote i'm for leaving off lynching for the first day until we see what happens during the night.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

I vote No Lynch.

RR121
October 10th, 2012, 03:28 PM
Yeah, votes can be changed at any time prior to someone being lynched, I believe.

Also, making "random guesses" is a little questionable, since if you are mafia then it's only in your interests to do that, whereas if you are a villager you have a 9/13 chance of hitting another villager, and a 5/13 chance of hitting a villager with useful powers. Although, I'm not entirely sure what it means when it says that the insane cop can detect the Godfather, if they get random responses....

I agree with Mike's analysis.

[NOLYNCH]

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:28 PM
You can if you want to. Though, is it wise to give the mafia a head start?

But, lynching at random statistically is most likely to give them an even bigger head start, and we have a couple of roles that can give us useful information....

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 03:29 PM
Oh, yeah, so he isn't....

Are non-players supposed to get involved in the discussion...?

I don't mind the presence of a mod since they can spot if someone is cheating on this thread by doing things such as deleting posts. In fact, I should include into the rules that you can't delete posts.

Yun
October 10th, 2012, 03:32 PM
I don't mind the presence of a mod since they can spot if someone is cheating on this thread by doing things such as deleting posts. In fact, I should include into the rules that you can't delete posts.What about editing posts?

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:32 PM
I don't mind the presence of a mod since they can spot if someone is cheating on this thread by doing things such as deleting posts. In fact, I should include into the rules that you can't delete posts.

Well, sure, but shouldn't be be refraining from posting? I mean, it's supposed to be up to us to make deductions, not outsiders....

Also, if people want to cheat, there are plenty of ways of doing so that you can't track, so I'm not sure that helps much.

Also, I assume that editing posts is not allowed either....

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 03:44 PM
Well, sure, but shouldn't be be refraining from posting? I mean, it's supposed to be up to us to make deductions, not outsiders....

Also, if people want to cheat, there are plenty of ways of doing so that you can't track, so I'm not sure that helps much.

Also, I assume that editing posts is not allowed either....

Yep. Editing posts is not allowed.

Also, we're playing by the honor system here. I'm sure that other players would love to get the chance to find their peers cheating to get them out of the game.

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Yep. Editing posts is not allowed.

OK, fair enough. I'll have to remember not to....


Also, we're playing by the honor system here. I'm sure that other players would love to get the chance to find their peers cheating to get them out of the game.

Well, yes, sure, but the point I was making is that having a mod around to check for deleted posts etc. isn't really all that helpful if someone is deliberately trying to cheat....

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 03:55 PM
Well, yes, sure, but the point I was making is that having a mod around to check for deleted posts etc. isn't really all that helpful if someone is deliberately trying to cheat....

It does prevent them from doing the more obvious method of doing so. Also, I think the likelihood of someone actually cheating is rather low since this is a casual game we're playing.

Fingolfin
October 10th, 2012, 03:55 PM
Alright, I'll go along with Mike.

[NO LYNCH]

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 04:10 PM
So far, I count five votes for [NO LYNCH] assuming that is what Yun is also voting for.

Erlkonig
October 10th, 2012, 04:32 PM
[NO LYNCH], though I'm already starting to suspect somebody...

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 04:35 PM
[NO LYNCH], though I'm already starting to suspect somebody...

Would you care to share your suspicions...?

After all, we do have cops etc. in the game, and if you get killed tonight your insight will be lost.

Katie
October 10th, 2012, 04:37 PM
[NO LYNCH]

Still don't like the fact we're probably two people down by the next day. :|

Erlkonig
October 10th, 2012, 04:38 PM
Would you care to share your suspicions...?

After all, we do have cops etc. in the game, and if you get killed tonight your insight will be lost.

Blackstone seems a tad too agressive to me. Doesn't seem like the attitude an unassuming villager would have

RR121
October 10th, 2012, 04:39 PM
On the flip side, if he's a special role, he might want to keep his mouth shut to avoid being targetted. Also, one more to lock in at "NO LYNCH"

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 04:39 PM
Blackstone seems a tad too agressive to me. Doesn't seem like the attitude an unassuming villager would have

Well, I am somewhat inclined to agree, although not so much as to go for a Lynch just yet.

- - - Updated - - -


On the flip side, if he's a special role, he might want to keep his mouth shut to avoid being targetted.

Perhaps, but then it might have been better for him to say nothing in that case....

Satehi
October 10th, 2012, 04:41 PM
[NO LYNCH]

BTW, are we going to claim our roles to root out who's suspicious? Or are we going to go with some other strategy? (ie, hope cop gets a crack at the right people)

Mike1984
October 10th, 2012, 04:47 PM
Well, remember there are two cops, and only one is accurate, so role-claiming won't work. The doctor can only protect one, after all.

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 04:48 PM
Majority called

Let's just say that the hooded man was very disappointed when it turned out no one was to be meeting the noose today.


NIGHT ONE BEGINS

The villagers now sleep and the various people active in the night now take their places.

This means no posting on this thread. Anyone with a role PM should PM me their actions, and mafia should PM me who they believe they should kill for tonight.

Chaos Greyblood
October 10th, 2012, 07:38 PM
I want to see how things play out, observe what may be going on and for now I don't want to be hasty.

[No lynch]

gesalt
October 10th, 2012, 07:42 PM
I want to see how things play out, observe what may be going on and for now I don't want to be hasty.

[No lynch]
1. Days will last for 48 hours or a player receives more votes than half the number of players still alive to get lynched
5. No posting is to occur in this thread during the night except by the GM(me for those who didn't know that).

Majority called no lynch already so night began.

EnigmaticFellow
October 10th, 2012, 09:25 PM
Hush children, it's still night time.

Chaos Greyblood
October 10th, 2012, 11:23 PM
So, anyone going for a quiet night for now?

EnigmaticFellow
October 11th, 2012, 04:47 PM
With the night reaching it's end, everyone left their houses to start their day, yet a bad sight greets the people of the village. A uniform man, RR121 to be specific, lies dead with several rounds of bullet holes on his head.

Incensed with the death of the cop which appeared to be very sane, several of the villagers brought out their pitchforks with only one thing on their mind, blood.


DAY 2 BEGINS

7 votes for majority.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 04:55 PM
OK, apparently I'm the insane cop, and Detective Blackstone is the Godfather.

Lynch Detective Blackstone

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 04:57 PM
OK, apparently I'm the insane cop, and Detective Blackstone is the Godfather.

Lynch Detective Blackstone

Well that was quick.

If you're lying, that just means we'll lynch you next :V

​Lynch Detective Blackstone

Highwayman
October 11th, 2012, 04:57 PM
If you were lying during this round, Mike, we'd lynch you tomorrow for certain.

I'm inclined to believe you.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Also, since I'll be confirmed as town once he's lynched, it might make sense for the Doctor to protect me this night, since I'm the obvious target (although, then, I'm not necessarily useful).

- - - Updated - - -

And, yes, I am well aware that, were I to be lying, I would obviously be lynched. Of course, since I'm not, that's not an issue....

We've lost our cop, though, which is pain. Otherwise we'd be in a very good position.

Highwayman
October 11th, 2012, 04:59 PM
Exactly, Erl.

Lynch Detective Blackstone.

Satehi
October 11th, 2012, 05:01 PM
That settles that pretty quickly.

Lynch Detective Blackstone.

anamesis
October 11th, 2012, 05:01 PM
I was going to make a joke about bacon, but I will resist.


Lynch Detective Blackstone


...this totally isn't a petty response to your previous attempt at murdering me ;_;

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:02 PM
OK, apparently I'm the insane cop, and Detective Blackstone is the Godfather.

Lynch Detective BlackstoneWell at least there is a glimmer of hope if you are telling the truth but I'll wait for DB to respond to your claim before jumping on the lynch train(It's only polite to do so) and just to be clear if he isn't the GF your the individual being lynched on day 3.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:02 PM
Hmm, I think we should perhaps slow this down a bit so we can discuss tactics, because we've now got to somehow find the three goons without a cop (since I am now useless).

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:03 PM
I was going to make a joke about bacon, but I will resist.


Lynch Detective Blackstone


...this totally isn't a petty response to your previous attempt at murdering me ;_;



Well, I apologize but I was going with my gut instincts.

They are usually on the mark.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:04 PM
Also I recommend that whomever the Doctor is they cover Mike during the night so the Mafia doesn't kill him.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:05 PM
Blackstone, do you have anything to say in your defence?

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:06 PM
I see you lurking Leo. You're stalking me aren't you?

EDIT:

@Mike:

It was the two armed man, I swear. That guy is probably the Godfather.

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 05:06 PM
I was going to make a joke about bacon, but I will resist.
?

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:06 PM
Why would they target Mike? Are you silly? Mike is useless now.

In fact, doctor should target anyone BUT Mike.

If mafia go by something like revenge... Well, they're not smart at all

SeiKeo
October 11th, 2012, 05:07 PM
I see you lurking Leo. You're stalking me aren't you?

haha no.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:08 PM
Erl: I'm a confirmed townie, which is very useful, especially later in the game.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:10 PM
haha no.

Don't deny your feelings Leo. The whole point you sneaked into this game was because you could not resist my manly charisma.

It's a curse I must bear. I'm simply too awesome for my own good.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:10 PM
Erl: I'm a confirmed townie, which is very useful, especially later in the game.

But think about the mafia guys. Who are they going to target first early on? The one they know has no threatening role, or try their luck at killing somebody who can hurt them, like the Vigilante?

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:10 PM
I see you lurking Leo. You're stalking me aren't you?

EDIT:

@Mike:

It was the two armed man, I swear. That guy is probably the Godfather.Well since you have nothing credible to defend yourself Lynch Blackstone.


Why would they target Mike? Are you silly? Mike is useless now.

In fact, doctor should target anyone BUT Mike.

If mafia go by something like revenge... Well, they're not smart at allI thought the Cop had a chance of getting a wrong result with the GF being guaranteed to be the correct result?

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Hmm, actually, I do wonder if the two masons should claim. Sure, the mafia could target them, but only at the cost of being unable to hit the vigilante, and the vigilante would also have a better idea who to targer.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Well since you have nothing credible to defend yourself Lynch Blackstone.

I thought the Cop had a chance of getting a wrong result with the GF being guaranteed to be the correct result?

Insane Cop result is 50 percent good 50 percent evil... In other words, completely unreliable.

Unless he hits the godfather, which reveals "that person is the godfather" with 100% certainty.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Well since you have nothing credible to defend yourself Lynch Blackstone.

Like I said, wait a bit, so we can discuss tactics.


I thought the Cop had a chance of getting a wrong result with the GF being guaranteed to be the correct result?

The cop is guarenteed to be right except for the Godfather, the insane cop is random except for the Godfather. So, since I found the Godfather, I am therefore now useless.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Well, how do we even know that Mike is the insane cop?

Does he actually come off as the type to be insane?

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Based on what Erl is saying, though, the two masons should claim. If I'm not worth protecting on the grounds that I'm a known townie, then surely it's better that the Masons claim (and we therefore know three confirmed townies) than that one of them dies (making them both useless).

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Well, how do we even know that Mike is the insane cop?

Does he actually come off as the type to be insane?

We don't know. But it's a good bet to take right after n1, because if he isn't, then next day we'll have a guaranteed mafia lynch. Only a mafia would fake being the insane cop and targeting somebody as the godfather, after all

^
Mafia could fake being Masons though.

Satehi
October 11th, 2012, 05:14 PM
But if the two masons claim, that's two less people that the mafia thinks might be the vigilante. If the masons claim, that puts both the vigilante and the doctor at bigger risk.

I don't think the tradeoff is worth it, especially when we've lost the only sane cop.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:14 PM
Hmm, actually, I do wonder if the two masons should claim. Sure, the mafia could target them, but only at the cost of being unable to hit the vigilante, and the vigilante would also have a better idea who to targer.The vigilante is best saved until the middle to end of the game due to having more information to pick his/her target and better odds or that is my opinion the matter.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:15 PM
The insane cop has 50% chance of either guilty or innocent, and getting a guilty verdict from the insane cop doesn't mean you are really guilty.

Just felt that bared mentioning. Not that I think Mike is the insane cop though.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:17 PM
Sat: the Vigilante is useless unless we know who the Mafia is, though. He's only likely to kill more of our own guys. If we know who everyone but the Doctor and the normal Villagers are, then the Vigilante can target people at random and have a decent chance of improving our situation.

We need to find out who the mafia are, so keeping information from them is not in our interests.

Also, I'm going to Unvote, just so we can continue this discussion, since Blackstone is obviously doomed.

- - - Updated - - -


The insane cop has 50% chance of either guilty or innocent, and getting a guilty verdict from the insane cop doesn't mean you are really guilty.

Just felt that bared mentioning. Not that I think Mike is the insane cop though.

The only exception being the Godfather, who I detect with 100% certainty....

anamesis
October 11th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Well since the village faction was at 9 with the Deceased RR121, we have been at majority for awhile now with or without that last vote.


Just saying.

- - - Updated - - -

=_= wait I am just retarded and forgot to count the others

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Really, this no speaking night rule is stupid. No voting I can understand, but no speaking? It's a bother to need to unvote and not be able to speak, when people are going to hold on before making the day end, which will drag on the game.

So much for having a quick game.

EnigmaticFellow
October 11th, 2012, 05:20 PM
We don't know. But it's a good bet to take right after n1, because if he isn't, then next day we'll have a guaranteed mafia lynch. Only a mafia would fake being the insane cop and targeting somebody as the godfather, after all

^
Mafia could fake being Masons though.

Erl, I would like to remind you that editing your posts is not allowed in the game thread.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:20 PM
@Mike:

So, there's still nothing proving you're the insane cop?

Good to know.

Also,


Also, I'm going to Unvote, just so we can continue this discussion, since Blackstone is obviously doomed.


Backtracking are we? Is it to avoid suspicion I wonder?

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:20 PM
Erm, you do realise that we need a majority of all players to lynch, right, not just the villagers. The Mafia get to vote on who to Lynch as well, otherwise it would be a very easy game....

EnigmaticFellow
October 11th, 2012, 05:21 PM
Really, this no speaking night rule is stupid. No voting I can understand, but no speaking? It's a bother to need to unvote and not be able to speak, when people are going to hold on before making the day end, which will drag on the game.

So much for having a quick game.

That's more to sticking in line with the original game then anything else.

anamesis
October 11th, 2012, 05:21 PM
you know, if Mike is not the insane cop he is a genius who is probing for more information before his downfall.


:'D glorious

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Based on what Erl is saying, though, the two masons should claim. If I'm not worth protecting on the grounds that I'm a known townie, then surely it's better that the Masons claim (and we therefore know three confirmed townies) than that one of them dies (making them both useless).
Sound Kind of iffy to me. The masons won't ever get the chance to be useful in the late game if they're revealed.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:22 PM
Insane Cop result is 50 percent good 50 percent evil... In other words, completely unreliable.

Unless he hits the godfather, which reveals "that person is the godfather" with 100% certainty.I see


Well, how do we even know that Mike is the insane cop?

Does he actually come off as the type to be insane?Because if you aren't the GodFather he is next on the lynch list and more importantly you haven't explicitly denied it instead you merely tried to cast doubt upon the acquisition by making a joke.


But if the two masons claim, that's two less people that the mafia thinks might be the vigilante. If the masons claim, that puts both the vigilante and the doctor at bigger risk.

I don't think the tradeoff is worth it, especially when we've lost the only sane cop.Agreed.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:22 PM
^
Mafia could fake being Masons though.

No, they can't, because then the real Masons can counter-claim, and we've just caught two mafia in one go. It's not worth the risk.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:23 PM
@Mike:

So, there's still nothing proving you're the insane cop?

Good to know.


Looks like you don't get it.

There's nothing proving you're not the godfather either, and Mike's claim this early in the game holds a lot more weight than yours.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Sound Kind of iffy to me. The masons won't ever get the chance to be useful in the late game if they're revealed.

But, equally, if either one of them dies, then they're both useless, and that is likely to happen. Plus, it allows us to use the Vigilante with less worry about hitting someone we don't want to get killed.

- - - Updated - - -


@Mike:

So, there's still nothing proving you're the insane cop?

Good to know.

If I'm the insane cop, we've just lynched the Godfather. If I'm not the insane cop, then we've lynched some random villager today, and I die to the vigilante tonight or get lynched tomorrow. Either way, the town wins overall, because a 1 to 1 trade is in our interests.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:26 PM
Wow, I posted slow.

I'm in favor of keeping the masons an unknown at this point, because ethen the mafia could pick ine of them off at their leasure.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:27 PM
No, they can't, because then the real Masons can counter-claim, and we've just caught two mafia in one go. It's not worth the risk.That is why the Mafia won't attempt to fake claim ergo we know the real masons identity whom the Mafia can just off before they become very useful and they have a pool that is 2 targets smaller ergo more likely to result in the doctor being killed.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:28 PM
Revealing the masons also puts our other useful players at risk. Because the mafia has an increased chance of hitting them.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:28 PM
But, equally, if either one of them dies, then they're both useless, and that is likely to happen. Plus, it allows us to use the Vigilante with less worry about hitting someone we don't want to get killed.

- - - Updated - - -



If I'm the insane cop, we've just lynched the Godfather. If I'm not the insane cop, then we've lynched some random villager today, and I die to the vigilante tonight or get lynched tomorrow. Either way, the town wins overall, because a 1 to 1 trade is in our interests.

You cunning genius.

I would expect no less from a member of the Mafia.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Wow, this is really moving, I'm having turtle keeping up.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Or, perhaps not.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Trouble.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Also, I am getting somewhat suspicious of Erl and especially Sat here. Sat's reasoning for the Masons not claiming is pretty dubious and misses the whole point of the game (which is that the Mafia have far more information than we do and can communicate privately, and thus we benefit from any information that is made public more than they do), and I get the impression that Erl might be trying to deliberately mislead us into doing the wrong thing.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:30 PM
You cunning genius.

I would expect no less from a member of the Mafia.

Please die already.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:31 PM
That is why the Mafia won't attempt to fake claim ergo we know the real masons identity whom the Mafia can just off before they become very useful and they have a pool that is 2 targets smaller ergo more likely to result in the doctor being killed.

But, if either one of the Masons dies by chance, then they're both useless. And, that is a very likely outcome if we leave it too late. Plus, the Masons are useful in their own right, because they're guarenteed town.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:32 PM
Sat's logic is dubious, yeah, because we still have 4 villagers as buffers. It'd be more solid if this were later in the game. Still, he does have a point, even if it's not really significant right now

Satehi
October 11th, 2012, 05:33 PM
Woah, what?

I was merely raising up points that other people in the game were also raising- namely, the fact that revealing who the masons are means that the mafia has a higher chance of aiming at the doctor or the vigilante. You're not trying to call all of us who share those thoughts mafia, are you?

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:34 PM
Erlkonig. You are so venomous. I like it.

I'll go along with Mike. Sat sound suspicious but I think Erl is cool. He seems like a nice guy.

Erlkonig is definitely townie material. There's no way he can be Mafia. Are we all agreed?

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:36 PM
No worries, Sat. I don't think you're as suspicious as Mike thinks you are. Not yet, at least.

Everyone is suspicious to some degree, though.

Blackstone is too suspicious though.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course I'm not mafia. Do you even know your own goons, 'Detective'?

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Ayup. There's no way Erl is Mafia.

Not at all.

Satehi
October 11th, 2012, 05:37 PM
I'll go along with Mike. Sat sound suspicious but I think Erl is cool. He seems like a nice guy.

I don't want to be called suspicious by the most suspicious person in the game

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:38 PM
The thing is, whilst his logic is superficially valid, it totally misses the point of the game. Sure, announcing the Masons gives the Mafia more chance of hitting the Vigilante or Doctor, but it also gives the Vigilante and our day lynch more chance of hitting the Mafia, and that is more important. Particularly since protecting the Vigilante is useless unless we actually use them, and if we already know who the Mafia is then we've basically won already, so they have to take risks.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:39 PM
Actually now I think Satehi is mafia.

If Blackstone's calling me mafia and I turn out to not be mafia it means he was trying to clear away suspicion from Satehi.

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 05:39 PM
This game is so confusing ;_;

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:40 PM
I don't want to be called suspicious by the most suspicious person in the game

Well, honestly, he's obviously trolling us. At this point, we all know he's going to be lynched, it's just a question of when. And, since that lynch will show him to be the Godfather, we will obviously try to pick his posts apart to see if we can glean anything from them.

- - - Updated - - -


Actually now I think Satehi is mafia.

If Blackstone's calling me mafia and I turn out to not be mafia it means he was trying to clear away suspicion from Satehi.

Well, do you think it'd be worth getting the vigilante to kill him tonight? If so, then we should decide that now....

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:41 PM
I'm just trying to help you out Erl. I was stating a fact.

You are definitely not a part of the Mafia.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:42 PM
That's a ball that's on the Vig's court. Satehi might be the doctor for all we know.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, thanks DB. You're a helpful person.

Highwayman
October 11th, 2012, 05:42 PM
Look, Blackstone is a condemned man trying to bolster the mafia's position with the minutes he has left.

In his shoes, I'd sling as much mud as possible on villagers in the hopes that we lynch someone innocent. Neither Satehi nor Erl are mafia, IMO.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:43 PM
Also, I agree that we should send the vigilante to kill Sat tonight. He's too damn suspicious.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:45 PM
That's a ball that's on the Vig's court. Satehi might be the doctor for all we know.

I disagree, it's far better if we decide as a group what the vigilante should do, or at least give them suggestions. They may not really know what they're doing. Plus, doing it this way gives Sat a chance to defend himself, and to roleclaim if he feels he's doomed otherwise.

Simply put, if Blackstone was not the Godfather, I would vote to Lynch Sat. Given that, it makes far more sense for the Vigilante to do so than for us to waste another day lynching him tomorrow.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 05:45 PM
No worries, Sat. I don't think you're as suspicious as Mike thinks you are. Not yet, at least.

Everyone is suspicious to some degree, though.

Blackstone is too suspicious though.Everyone is suspicious of the unknown and/or fearful of dying.


Ayup. There's no way Erl is Mafia.

Not at all.Why oh why did some Mafia @#%@$%$ murder our good cop because either your lying in an attempt to take out an additional villager or your giving him cover by claiming he is a Mafia goon which none of us can prove.

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 05:45 PM
OOC: Sorry for having gotten here after so long. I was helping out in the kitchen making sure the meal gets cooked nicely and my mom pretty much has a bum right arm. I'll post now.

IC: Well now, the atmosphere is getting rather tense in here and until we know more, the indicated party is innocent until proven guilty. Blackstone should be spared... at least for now.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:46 PM
Look, Blackstone is a condemned man trying to bolster the mafia's position with the minutes he has left.

In his shoes, I'd sling as much mud as possible on villagers in the hopes that we lynch someone innocent. Neither Satehi nor Erl are mafia, IMO.

Yes, but not only is that true, but we all know it to be true. So, slinging mud at his own allies is not necessarily a bad move, because it can deflect suspicion from them....

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:46 PM
This might sound like skewed logic, but that makes Satehi more suspicious now. I mean, if I knew that somebody was suspecting on a mafia because of something I said, trying to exaggerate his suspiciousness would probably make people think "yeah, no way this guy's a mafia".

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:46 PM
....
After redrawing all the previous posts I've reevaluated my opinion.
For some odd reason I'd been forgetting the fact that the mafia already knows who all the villagers are.

.....

I just dont know. Im leaning towards Mike's argument, but it's a narrow margin. It does make the game more dangerous for the villages useful occupations, but it's also one of the few ways we can move forward now that we don't have the cop.

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Still, not many people are liable to slip up and just let their intentions be revealed, unless the person in question is rather... shall I say, nuts? My point is that Blackstone may or may not be the kind of person we think he is.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Especially if I had a neon-bright sign that said "I'M THE GODFATHER" pointing at me.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:48 PM
Why oh why did some Mafia @#%@$%$ murder our good cop because either your lying in an attempt to take out an additional villager or your giving him cover by claiming he is a Mafia goon which none of us can prove.

Because they got really lucky with their pick....


IC: Well now, the atmosphere is getting rather tense in here and until we know more, the indicated party is innocent until proven guilty. Blackstone should be spared... at least for now.

Do you understand how this game works?

What's happened here is the closest to proof this game is ever going to have that he's Mafia, and if he's not, then I'm Mafia and I die tonight or tomorrow. If we don't lynch him in situations like this, then we lose, full stop.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:50 PM
OOC: Sorry for having gotten here after so long. I was helping out in the kitchen making sure the meal gets cooked nicely and my mom pretty much has a bum right arm. I'll post now.

IC: Well now, the atmosphere is getting rather tense in here and until we know more, the indicated party is innocent until proven guilty. Blackstone should be spared... at least for now.

Wait, what?!?! without the cop we have no way of proving anything without killing someone off. I'm willing to be Mikes telling the truth because it will end up worSe for the mafia if he's NOT the insane cop.

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 05:51 PM
Then by all means, go ahead and hang his body on a lamppost. We'll see if the evidence does indeed prove to be right.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:52 PM
Still, not many people are liable to slip up and just let their intentions be revealed, unless the question in question is rather... shall I say, nuts? My point is that Blackstone may or may not be the kind of person we think he is.

Look, there are only two options here. Either Blackstone is the Godfather, or Blackstone is innocent and I'm a Mafia Goon impersonating the Insane Cop. If we lynch him now, then either way we find a member of the Mafia, if we don't then we have no idea. The only other logical move would be to lynch me, but since I am far less likely to be lying than to be telling the truth (since a villager dying is less of a big deal than a Mafia member dying, so putting suspicion on myself is not sensible), lynching him first makes sense.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:52 PM
Then by all means, go ahead and hang his body on a lamppost. We'll see if the evidence does indeed prove to be right.

...You do know that's the best course of action, don't you?

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:53 PM
Also, I'm a little suspicious of Chaos here. Either he really doesn't get the game, or he's trying very hard to convince us to do nothing at all, and thus let the Mafia win by default. I suspect it's the first, but we can't rule the second out.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:55 PM
I think it's both. He's a mafia, but he doesn't know how to mafia.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 05:55 PM
Come on guys, don't lynch Mike.

He's a nice guy. I don't mind dying for the sake of the village and helping my fellow townies out.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Come on guys, don't lynch Mike.

He's a nice guy. I don't mind dying for the sake of the village and helping my fellow townies out.
Awww, such concern for your enemies.
it makes my heart fuzzy and worm.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 05:57 PM
Uhh... Nobody's lynching mike today.

We'll lynch him tomorrow, if you turned out to be innocent. :V

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 05:57 PM
I think it's both. He's a mafia, but he doesn't know how to mafia.

Yeah, that's quite possible.

- - - Updated - - -


Uhh... Nobody's lynching mike today.

We'll lynch him tomorrow, if you turned out to be innocent. :V

Honestly, if he turns out to be innocent, then the Vigilante is doing a terrible job if I even live that long....

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 06:00 PM
Awww, such concern for your enemies.
it makes my heart fuzzy and worm.

I'm just looking out for my fellow townies, bro.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:01 PM
Also, did we decide anything about the Mason reveal? I really think they should do that, and I also think we should discuss what the vigilante should do next.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm just looking out for my fellow townies, bro.

I'm pretty sure I'm the one person we can say with absolute certainty is not on your side, unless the mod is fucking with us....

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:02 PM
I think it's better for them to not claim yet. That's just my opinion, though. Just a gut feeling.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:04 PM
I think it's better for them to not claim yet. That's just my opinion, though. Just a gut feeling.


I just don't know. Id feel much better if we could wait a day, but I'm not sure if that's the way to win.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:06 PM
I disagree. I think we need the vigilante to start killing people, to give us more kills, and I think that will be massively aided by having the Masons known. Keeping them secret can't really help us much now the Cop is dead, and the Doctor isn't that helpful without someone to protect. Losing the Vigilante isn't that big a deal if we're not going to use his kills anyway, and saving him for the end of the game seems pointless. He'll likely die before then just by random chance.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, I think we should have a shadow vote for who the vigilante should kill. Honestly, my immediate thought is Chaos or Sat, although, Erl, you are somewhat suspicious too.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 06:09 PM
Also, did we decide anything about the Mason reveal? I really think they should do that, and I also think we should discuss what the vigilante should do next.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm pretty sure I'm the one person we can say with absolute certainty is not on your side, unless the mod is fucking with us....

No, you're just being reasonable Mike. Your suspicions of me aside, I don't think you would honestly be the type to lie about this sort of thing. I trust your ability to remain objective.

Your a good man, a bit obsessed sometimes, but your intentions are good.

I made a mistake and jumped the gun with whole thing with anamesis. (My bad, anamesis.) I don't know whether you were either a mafia or a townie Mike, but if you're a townie, you have my support.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:10 PM
I think I have to agree with Mke.
The Vigilante is our only win con at this point, and we need to use him.

After you accept that, everything else mike says just makes the plan work better.


I'm not so sure on voting on whom to vigilant kills, because the mafia could vote rIght along with us.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Well, it's not like the vigilante has to listen to our choices. It's an advisory vote, not a binding one. If we're unanimous about someone, though, then I would say they definitely should.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 06:13 PM
Well, I'll just along with the majority vote. Whatever it is.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:16 PM
Well, I'll just along with the majority vote. Whatever it is.

You're going to vote to lynch yourself? :p

- - - Updated - - -

Anyway, if we're going to reveal the Masons, we should do it before we lynch Blackstone. So, we should decide now.

Fingolfin
October 11th, 2012, 06:16 PM
If it's for the greater good of the townies. I'll make whatever sacrifice I have to, as a fellow townie.

[VOTE LYNCH DETECTIVE BLACKSTONE]

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:18 PM
Is that even allowed? Also, no-one vote to lynch him yet, because it will end the day immediately, before we've decided what else to do.

- - - Updated - - -

No-one else, I mean....

EnigmaticFellow
October 11th, 2012, 06:20 PM
Is that even allowed? Also, no-one vote to lynch him yet, because it will end the day immediately, before we've decided what else to do.

- - - Updated - - -

No-one else, I mean....

One can vote to lynch them-self.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Mike, there's one problem with your plan.
You have to convence the masons to reveal themselves, without knowing if they're even playing attention right now.

- - - Updated - - -

I take that back, we've got 13 people paying attention, they're probably here.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:21 PM
OK. I mean, it is a tactically shrewed move there, since it brings the end of the day closer, I just wasn't sure it was allowed....

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:22 PM
Let's not reveal the Masons yet, since we've got a bigger issue in front of us.

Let's see first if Blackstone's the culprit, and if he is, then we'll do as Mike says.

If he isn't, then Mike was trying to manipulate us into revealing the Masons all along.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:23 PM
Mike, there's one problem with your plan.
You have to convence the masons to reveal themselves, without knowing if they're even playing attention right now.

- - - Updated - - -

I take that back, we've got 13 people paying attention, they're probably here.

We have 48 hours, and one revealing theirselves is probably enough, if they name their partner. Then, we just have to ask said partner (and, if they get assassinated, we discover their role anyway).

- - - Updated - - -

Erl: do you really think I'd sacrifice myself to convince you to do something that actually does make tactical sense?

Honestly, I'm more and more convinced that you're mafia....

anamesis
October 11th, 2012, 06:24 PM
I agree with Erl and say we wait.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:25 PM
You seem to be resisting this action quite hard, and I really can't see why. It makes logical sense, and even if I were mafia my arguments are still not any less valid.

- - - Updated - - -

Erl is, I mean.

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 06:26 PM
We still got a bit more than a day left. I also say along with Erl and Ama that we wait for now and see how our esteemed detective works out.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:26 PM
I really don't get your logic here, Erl. If I were Mafia, is it really worth sacrificing myself to get a better chance of killing the Doctor or Vigilante? Even ignoring the tactical benefits that the villagers get....

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 06:26 PM
Please vote to lynch him already we gain nothing by delaying it and the Mafia will be able create confusion/paranoia among us.

If it's for the greater good of the townies. I'll make whatever sacrifice I have to, as a fellow townie.

[VOTE LYNCH DETECTIVE BLACKSTONE] ...okay if you turn out to be innocent you've my respect and that would result in Mike(wants to use the vigi when the odds are against us), 2ndsly(has been following mike's lead with a small amount of hesitance), and third individual as my primary suspects given the limited amount of information available to us.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:26 PM
I dunno, if you were mafia you'd have some ulterior motive we couldn't sense.

We'll just have to wait and see

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Let's not reveal the Masons yet, since we've got a bigger issue in front of us.

Let's see first if Blackstone's the culprit, and if he is, then we'll do as Mike says.

If he isn't, then Mike was trying to manipulate us into revealing the Masons all along.

Would revealing the masons be enough to make up for losing one of their own....

Assuming Mike is I the mofia, then at best he can
-kill of DB
-reveal masons
-Get Vigilante to kill off another villager

The only way I see that plan workin is if DB really is the Godfather, and this is a gambit to gain an edge. But I just don't buy it.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:27 PM
Also yeah, end the day already.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:27 PM
The thing is, if one of the Masons dies tonight (which is quite possible), then we lose the chance. Further, we really should get the vigilante going, and doing that makes a lot more sense if we know who the Masons are.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:30 PM
You're forgetting that the cop is dead now. If mike is lying, not only is the godfather now pretty much invincible, but what if DB is actually the insane cop, but if Mike is a mafia and also reveals the masons, that's a really good move on the godfather's side.

- - - Updated - - -

Not that that influences my decision in any way. not lynching Blackstone would be retarded, but I think we won't get anywhere if we don't end this day and see if Mike was telling the truth.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:30 PM
Yun: I really don't see why you're thinking Blackstone might be innocent. Or why you're even considering the possibility at this stage. We need to start actually doing stuff, and me lying here does not make sense.

IMO, Erl and Chaos are Mafia. They seem to be resisting this very strongly based on extremely flimsy evidence, and Erl is even trying to get the day ended despite a specific statement not to, before we can have a chance to discuss things more thoroughly. It never benefits the village to have less information.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:30 PM
and*

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:31 PM
Erl and Chaos Are quite suspicious at this point....

I'm thinking we point the vigilante at them.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:37 PM
You're forgetting that the cop is dead now. If mike is lying, not only is the godfather now pretty much invincible, but what if DB is actually the insane cop, but if Mike is a mafia and also reveals the masons, that's a really good move on the godfather's side.

The thing is, if I were Mafia, I would have no way of knowing that Blackstone is the insane cop. It would be pure pot luck. And, if he were, he'd surely have roleclaimed by now, to give himself at least some shot at credibility. Indeed, claiming that is probably the only thing that could possibly have saved him from being lynched immediately (since, in that case, it is then perhaps sensible to lynch me first on the off-chance).

- - - Updated - - -


Erl and Chaos Are quite suspicious at this point....

I'm thinking we point the vigilante at them.

Yeah, I think the Vigilante should take one of the two. I'd say probably Chaos, because if he is a villager, we don't lose that much since he's not really been that helpful in the discussion so far.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course, leaving a competent mafia guy alive isn't really a good idea, but I'm not sure it's a less bad idea than killing a competent villager....

- - - Updated - - -

And, I still do think the Masons should roleclaim. At very least, we should wait a while to let them make the decision. Erl's determination to end the day does sound very mafia-like to me....

- - - Updated - - -


Would revealing the masons be enough to make up for losing one of their own....

Assuming Mike is I the mofia, then at best he can
-kill of DB
-reveal masons
-Get Vigilante to kill off another villager

The only way I see that plan workin is if DB really is the Godfather, and this is a gambit to gain an edge. But I just don't buy it.

Oh, I missed this.

Actually, I can't even do the third of those, because once the Lynching is done, we will know Blackstone's true nature. Once that's out, then the vigilante would likely be targetting me if he turns out to be normal.

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 06:37 PM
Well then, if anyone doesn't mind, why not recap to me all the stuff about Detective Blackstone and do so in such a way that it's concise that I'll be able to have a better judgment on how things are going? I've had a rather busy morning helping out at home and I can't be everywhere at once unless I clone myself. I'm just saying that at the very least if you want me to vote for removing him, I'll at least do it without stabbing in the dark too much.

Not too much to ask, is it? We still have until nightfall.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:40 PM
I'll give you a freebie as to who I am, Mike.

My death will be most frustrating to whoever is my killer, regardless of the side they're on.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:42 PM
Well then, if anyone doesn't mind, why not recap to me all the stuff about Detective Blackstone and do so in such a way that it's concise that I'll be able to have a better judgment on how things are going? I've had a rather busy morning helping out at home and I can't be everywhere at once unless I clone myself. I'm just saying that at the very least if you want me to vote for removing him, I'll at least do it without stabbing in the dark too much.

Not too much to ask, is it? We still have until nightfall.

We know
1. Mike claims to be the only character capable of finding the godfather.
2. That DB did a terrible job defending himself, so bad was more of an 'you got me' then a denile.
3. Know that even at the very best, Mke as a mafia isn't going to get ahead by doing this
4. That the only way to verify any of this is to kill someone, because the only other player to do it is already dead.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:43 PM
Well then, if anyone doesn't mind, why not recap to me all the stuff about Detective Blackstone and do so in such a way that it's concise that I'll be able to have a better judgment on how things are going? I've had a rather busy morning helping out at home and I can't be everywhere at once unless I clone myself. I'm just saying that at the very least if you want me to vote for removing him, I'll at least do it without stabbing in the dark too much.

Not too much to ask, is it? We still have until nightfall.

Honestly, I don't want you to vote to lynch him right now. He's going to be lynched without a doubt, and what we need to do is drag out the discussion a bit more. If you vote to lynch him, then the round is over, which is bad news for us.

Simply put, the evidence against him (aside from his rather questionable behaviour) is the PM I got saying that he's the godfather as a result of my investigation last night. Obviously, I can't show you the PM or quote it, because that's against the rules, but I have no reason to falsely claim. It's simply not in my interests, because I would be obviously found out, and nor is it possible for me to be mistaken, unless the GM has put some extra restrictions on me that I do not know about, which seems unlikely.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 06:43 PM
- - - Updated - - -

Not that that influences my decision in any way. not lynching Blackstone would be retarded, but I think we won't get anywhere if we don't end this day and see if Mike was telling the truth.Agreed.


Yun: I really don't see why you're thinking Blackstone might be innocent. Or why you're even considering the possibility at this stage. We need to start actually doing stuff, and me lying here does not make sense.I'm saying if he is innocent it makes sense for the mafia to be willing to sacrifice a quarter of their team for the sake of granting the remaining members a nice smoke screen and taking out an extra or two if we were stupid enough to use the vigilante this early.


Erl and Chaos Are quite suspicious at this point....

I'm thinking we point the vigilante at them....requesting a vote where the mafia can influence the decision making and when the odds are against us while simultaneously attempting to have the masons reveal themselves is even more suspicious then anything chaos has done.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:43 PM
*could

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:43 PM
I'll give you a freebie as to who I am, Mike.

My death will be most frustrating to whoever is my killer, regardless of the side they're on.

What?

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 06:45 PM
Honestly, I don't want you to vote to lynch him right now. He's going to be lynched without a doubt, and what we need to do is drag out the discussion a bit more. If you vote to lynch him, then the round is over, which is bad news for us.No it is very good news because for the moment everyone is jumping at shadows and getting suspicious over the slightest of things(all of which are subjective) which is exactly what the Mafia want!

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 06:47 PM
Honestly, I don't want you to vote to lynch him right now. He's going to be lynched without a doubt, and what we need to do is drag out the discussion a bit more. If you vote to lynch him, then the round is over, which is bad news for us.

Simply put, the evidence against him (aside from his rather questionable behaviour) is the PM I got saying that he's the godfather as a result of my investigation last night. Obviously, I can't show you the PM or quote it, because that's against the rules, but I have no reason to falsely claim. It's simply not in my interests, because I would be obviously found out, and nor is it possible for me to be mistaken, unless the GM has put some extra restrictions on me that I do not know about, which seems unlikely.

Alrighty then, so you agree with my opinion (And that of a few others) that we wait and find out and hold out for at least 1 day. I sense that there is some flip-flopping around here.

Also, I think someone MUST be in a hurry to finish him off. I'd cast my suspicions to that person or people.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:50 PM
I'll say it again, at Best, Mike as Mafia can get three of our people.
1. DB
2. One of the masons (but someone will be killed anyway)
3. Whomever the vigilante might kill.

Admittedly, I haven't run the numbers, but these are the facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, at this point I'm marking people as suspicious depending on how quickly they try to end things.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:53 PM
I'm saying if he is innocent it makes sense for the mafia to be willing to sacrifice a quarter of their team for the sake of granting the remaining members a nice smoke screen

What "smoke screen"?


taking out an extra or two if we were stupid enough to use the vigilante this early.

Well, then, when do you suggest we use the vigilante...?


...requesting a vote where the mafia can influence the decision making and when the odds are against us

I never suggested a binding vote, and the Vigilante can just ignore it if it seems suspicious, particularly if the vote is close. But, in general, 13 people are better at making decisions than 1, even if some of them are deliberately biased. Plus, if the mafia do try to rig it, their voting patterns will give us more evidence to track them down.


while simultaneously attempting to have the masons reveal themselves

Which I really don't see the problem with. I can see your argument for why it's not good for us (although I don't agree with it), but it's not going to be a significant disadvantage for us.


even more suspicious then anything chaos has done.

Hmm, part of this makes me suspicious of you, but then I don't think the Mafia would bother to defend Blackstone at this point. He's quite simply doomed, even if you could somehow convince people to lynch me now.

- - - Updated - - -


No it is very good news because for the moment everyone is jumping at shadows and getting suspicious over the slightest of things(all of which are subjective) which is exactly what the Mafia want!

Erm, no, that's how the game works. Sure, we have false suspicions, but we need discussions like this to get evidence on people.

- - - Updated - - -


I'll say it again, at Best, Mike as Mafia can get three of our people.
1. DB
2. One of the masons (but someone will be killed anyway)
3. Whomever the vigilante might kill.

Admittedly, I haven't run the numbers, but these are the facts.

Like I said, I couldn't get the third, because Blackstone would be lynched (and confirmed to not be the Godfather) before the vigilante made his decision, and thus he'd be wise to not take any recommendation I'd made. And, once the Masons are revealed, then having the Mafia target them isn't really that bad a thing, since they're not the Vigilante or Doctor....

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Yun, Chaos, Erl,

Would the mafia be so blatant to all speak out in suspicious ways?

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:53 PM
I'll say it again, at Best, Mike as Mafia can get three of our people.
1. DB
2. One of the masons (but someone will be killed anyway)
3. Whomever the vigilante might kill.

Admittedly, I haven't run the numbers, but these are the facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, at this point I'm marking people as suspicious depending on how quickly they try to end things.

End things? This is no end, it's merely a transition to the next day. On the next day, all the questions we're asking right now will be answered.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 06:54 PM
I'm listing in my post, not asking.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 06:54 PM
No, but the Godfather would try anything if he's being tailed by the insane cop.

And I mean anything​.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Yun, Chaos, Erl,

Would the mafia be so blatant to all speak out in suspicious ways?

Well, I think we should be careful of some of the lurkers, because they could easily be hiding to avoid suspicion. Quite a few of the players have not posted at all yet, particularly KT and Lianru (although Lianru did make one content-free post).


End things? This is no end, it's merely a transition to the next day. On the next day, all the questions we're asking right now will be answered.

Yes, but we'd have lost another day and another player in the meantime. We can't afford to just waste time. We didn't lynch anyone yesterday (although that wasn't necessarily a bad move), we can't afford to sit around and let the Mafia kill us off one-by-one.

Katie
October 11th, 2012, 07:00 PM
Well, I think we should be careful of some of the lurkers, because they could easily be hiding to avoid suspicion. Quite a few of the players have not posted at all yet, particularly KT and Lianru (although Lianru did make one content-free post).

I voted on the first page >_>

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 07:01 PM
1 to 1 seems pretty good to me, better than just letting the Vigilante take a gamble with the current amount of information we have. Mike, we've still got 9 people in town faction. After today, the number of mafia will inevitably drop to 3, and the number of townies may not even decrease if the doctor plays his cards right.

- - - Updated - - -

If the Vigilante acts, though, we're risking having a townie with a special role die.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 07:02 PM
What "smoke screen"?Hypothetical scenario.


Well, then, when do you suggest we use the vigilante...?When the odds are better and when we don't have a risk of a special role dying.


I never suggested a binding vote, and the Vigilante can just ignore it if it seems suspicious, particularly if the vote is close. But, in general, 13 people are better at making decisions than 1, even if some of them are deliberately biased. Plus, if the mafia do try to rig it, their voting patterns will give us more evidence to track them down.Not really tbh...



Which I really don't see the problem with. I can see your argument for why it's not good for us (although I don't agree with it), but it's not going to be a significant disadvantage for us.It would be a huge disadvantage by the endgame because the vigilant has 25% to 50% odds of success compared to the poor odds atm.




Hmm, part of this makes me suspicious of you, but then I don't think the Mafia would bother to defend Blackstone at this point. He's quite simply doomed, even if you could somehow convince people to lynch me now.I never supported lynching you unless Blackstone is innocent.


Erm, no, that's how the game works. Sure, we have false suspicions, but we need discussions like this to get evidence on people.Considering we lost the cop I'm almost willing to have everyone reveal their "roles" and systematically hack off the contradictory claims.

Yun, Chaos, Erl,So your claiming I'm a Mafia?


Would the mafia be so blatant to all speak out in suspicious ways?One of them would, another would act as a follower to an innocent, and the third would try to fly below the radar.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:04 PM
1 to 1 seems pretty good to me, better than just letting the Vigilante take a gamble with the current amount of information we have. Mike, we've still got 9 people in town faction. After today, the number of mafia will inevitably drop to 3, and the number of townies may not even decrease if the doctor plays his cards right.

- - - Updated - - -

If the Vigilante acts, though, we're risking having a townie with a special role die.

The Doctor is very unlikely to protect the right person, honestly. And, whilst the Vigilante could kill a Townie with a special role, if we announce the Masons then the only useful townie he could kill would be the Doctor. Which, whilst it would be a disaster if it happened, is far less likely than him hitting one of the Mafia.

And, when are we ever going to have enough information for the vigilante to act? In three days, we will no more know who the Doctor is than we do now. If we did, then he'd die that night. We can never remove the risk of the vigilante killing the Doctor, anymore than we can remove the risk of us lynching the Doctor. All the vigilante does, essentially, is give us a free extra Lynch, and I think we have enough good suspects to use it, particularly if the Masons reveal theirselves.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 07:07 PM
Mike, I'll be honest. When the insane cop claims somebody is the godfather, the first thing that needs to be done before anything can proceed is to confirm it's the truth. I know to you it's already pretty much the truth but nobody else can truly believe it until we've seen it with our own eyes.

Just vote to lynch Blackstone already, calm our minds, and then I'll agree on the Mason reveal. The Masons clearly don't want to show up until this has been solved, so your hand is pretty much forced.

Yun
October 11th, 2012, 07:08 PM
The Doctor is very unlikely to protect the right person, honestly. And, whilst the Vigilante could kill a Townie with a special role, if we announce the Masons then the only useful townie he could kill would be the Doctor. Which, whilst it would be a disaster if it happened, is far less likely than him hitting one of the Mafia.There are currently 4 Mafia and 9 innocent and if DB is a member of the Mafia that means the vigi would have a 3/12 chance of hitting a Mafia member compared to a 9/12 likelihood of hitting a villager and since he can only use it once ergo it's best to wait.

Katie
October 11th, 2012, 07:08 PM
Man, are we seriously all voting Blackstone because he is really retardedly suspicious and we're trusting the fact that Mike is the insane cop, when we have absolutely no evidence?

Damn, you guys are eating out of Mike's hand like abused dogs. :|

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:15 PM
When the odds are better and when we don't have a risk of a special role dying.

Which is when? As long as the Doctor is alive, we will never know who he is.


It would be a huge disadvantage by the endgame because the vigilant has 25% to 50% odds of success compared to the poor odds atm.

Yes, but that requires the vigilante to survive that far, which is unlikely to occur. We have sufficient evidence that there are three or four players I would happily lynch at this point, so I don't see why we shouldn't set the vigilante on them.


Considering we lost the cop I'm almost willing to have everyone reveal their "roles" and systematically hack off the contradictory claims.

Well, honestly, that's pretty much my suggestion, only without the two important roles revealing. OK, so having the Vigilante and Doctor reveal theirselves would leave us most likely in a situation where we had to pick 3 Mafia from 7 "villagers" but, equally, the Mafia would kill the two of them the next two nights, losing us our power roles immediately. I think it's better to have 3 Mafia from 9 villagers with a Vigilante and Doctor hidden than 3 Mafia from 7 with them not hidden.

- - - Updated - - -


There are currently 4 Mafia and 9 innocent and if DB is a member of the Mafia that means the vigi would have a 3/12 chance of hitting a Mafia member compared to a 9/12 likelihood of hitting a villager and since he can only use it once ergo it's best to wait.

Oh, I see, now your argument makes a lot more sense.

No, the vigilante can't only kill once, he can kill every night....

- - - Updated - - -


Mike, I'll be honest. When the insane cop claims somebody is the godfather, the first thing that needs to be done before anything can proceed is to confirm it's the truth. I know to you it's already pretty much the truth but nobody else can truly believe it until we've seen it with our own eyes.

Again, why would I lie? Particularly given that I literally read the PM and posted it instantly. And, Blackstone's attempt at defending himself has been quite frankly pathetic. He knows he's doomed and his only actions have been to try to troll us.


Just vote to lynch Blackstone already, calm our minds, and then I'll agree on the Mason reveal. The Masons clearly don't want to show up until this has been solved, so your hand is pretty much forced.

The thing is, they could get killed tonight, which takes them out of the running entirely. Also, we lose a vigilante kill.

You're sounding more and more mafia-like here....

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 07:15 PM
Man, are we seriously all voting Blackstone because he is really retardedly suspicious and we're trusting the fact that Mike is the insane cop, when we have absolutely no evidence?

Damn, you guys are eating out of Mike's hand like abused dogs. :|
What evidence can we get without the cop?

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:18 PM
Man, are we seriously all voting Blackstone because he is really retardedly suspicious and we're trusting the fact that Mike is the insane cop, when we have absolutely no evidence?

Damn, you guys are eating out of Mike's hand like abused dogs. :|

If I'm lying, then we find out immediately, and I die either tonight or tomorrow. It's not worth it for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, also, I just noticed that Blackstone voted to Lynch Ana on the first day, without any real prompting, which suggests to me that he's not Mafia either....

- - - Updated - - -

Ana isn't, I mean, not Blackstone.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 07:19 PM
I think it would bebenificsl to have the vigilante reveal himself so the doctor can protect him. Then the only way he dies is if the doctor gets killed. This way hes likely to last a while.

- - - Updated - - -

*beneficial

SeiKeo
October 11th, 2012, 07:19 PM
We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:21 PM
I think it would bebenificsl to have the vigilante reveal himself so the doctor can protect him. Then the only way he dies is if the doctor gets killed. This way hes likely to last a while.

- - - Updated - - -

*beneficial

Well, you have a point, although it does mean that, once the Doctor is dead, he follows the day after.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 07:25 PM
Well, you have a point, although it does mean that, once the Doctor is dead, he follows the day after.
But this way, he can't get lynched. Then the only way for him to di is for the mafia to stumble across the doctor, which they'd have nearly the same chance as stumbling across the vigilante if he isn't protected. At least this way he'd live another turn.

It could go wrong on us, if only by bad luck. But I think THIS is the correct play, where revealing the masons was a little iffy.

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 07:29 PM
At the very least, we will have a chance to confirm a lot of stuff, so let's just do this and go forward.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:31 PM
But this way, he can't get lynched.

Well, lynching isn't an issue because the Vigilante can always claim if they're about to be lynched. The Mafia can't really fake-claim that role because then the real Vigilante will just kill them that night.


Then the only way for him to di is for the mafia to stumble across the doctor, which they'd have nearly the same chance as stumbling across the vigilante if he isn't protected. At least this way he'd live another turn.

Yes, this is true.


It could go wrong on us, if only by bad luck. But I think THIS is the correct play, where revealing the masons was a little iffy.

Really?

How is this less "iffy" than revealing the Masons is? We're telling the Mafia who one of our major roles is....

I actually think we may well be better off doing both, although I do see your point about keeping the Masons a secret for now.

Hmm, well, perhaps we need some way for the Masons to passively identify theirselves, or at least make it so that, if we know who one is, we can deduce who the other is....

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 07:32 PM
At the very least, we will have a chance to confirm a lot of stuff, so let's just do this and go forward.

No reason to hurry. It'd he,p the village if the Vigilante will reveal himself so the doctor can protect him while the masons stay hidden to sandbag attempts to kill the doctor. It's the best play available to the village if the Vigilante and Doctor are willing to play they're part.

Katie
October 11th, 2012, 07:36 PM
The problem is, Mike, revealing the Masons does nothing. All it does is trim down the list of suspects of who can be doctor and vigilante, and that's something the town shouldn't want. The only skill the masons have is their ability to PM each other; that's it. To argue for revealing the Masons means that the probability of hitting the doctor or vigilante spikes drastically.

Seriously, how the fuck is that a good idea if you're pro-townie?

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:39 PM
No reason to hurry. It'd he,p the village if the Vigilante will reveal himself so the doctor can protect him while the masons stay hidden to sandbag attempts to kill the doctor. It's the best play available to the village if the Vigilante and Doctor are willing to play they're part.

I agree with you about revealing the Vigilante, but I don't agree that revealing the Masons is a bad move. True, it makes the Doctor easier to kill, but it also makes the Vigilante more useful, and if we reveal the two Masons, the Vigilante and me, then we have four people we know are town. Sure, the Mafia could kill everyone else until they find the Doctor, but that could leave them in a situation where they actually cannot win, since there are more known town players than Mafia....

- - - Updated - - -


The problem is, Mike, revealing the Masons does nothing. All it does is trim down the list of suspects of who can be doctor and vigilante, and that's something the town shouldn't want. The only skill the masons have is their ability to PM each other; that's it. To argue for revealing the Masons means that the probability of hitting the doctor or vigilante spikes drastically.

Seriously, how the fuck is that a good idea if you're pro-townie?

No, it doesn't "do nothing", because the two Masons can mutually confirm each other to be Masons. Therefore, we have two people we know are town, which is a big advantage.

Katie
October 11th, 2012, 07:41 PM
No, it doesn't "do nothing", because the two Masons can mutually confirm each other to be Masons. Therefore, we have two people we know are town, which is a big advantage.

It could always be two mafia members messing around, they have the same power and more.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 07:43 PM
But this way, he can't get lynched. Then the only way for him to di is for the mafia to stumble across the doctor, which they'd have nearly the same chance as stumbling across the vigilante if he isn't protected. At least this way he'd live another turn.

It could go wrong on us, if only by bad luck. But I think THIS is the correct play, where revealing the masons was a little iffy.

This... is a pretty good idea.

Still, we've pretty much seen luck can screw us over if we're not careful.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 07:43 PM
Revealing the masons would always becomes a nessisary play, ut I wasn't sure If now was the best time. Now that I've got a better play, I'd like to use it. And revealing the masons makes it a FAR less attractive action for the Vililante to reveal himself. If we do it that way, I'd rather EVERYONE reveal.

Highwayman
October 11th, 2012, 07:46 PM
It could always be two mafia members messing around, they have the same power and more.

In that case, the legit mason(s) could counterclaim, and the mafia who were posing as masons would be lynched in future turns.

Anyway, I'm also against asking the masons to reveal themselves at the moment. KT's logic about protecting the doctor and vigilante makes sense.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:47 PM
Actually, I've just worked it out, and revealing the Masons and the Vigilante means that, unless the Mafia or the Vigilante kill the Doctor tonight, then we are actually guarenteed to win if the Mafia attempts to take out the Doctor, and the Vigilante kills anyone other than the Doctor (even a villager).

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 07:48 PM
This... is a pretty good idea.

Still, we've pretty much seen luck can screw us over if we're not careful.

Bad luck is bad luck. If it hits, it hits.

- - - Updated - - -


Actually, I've just worked it out, and revealing the Masons and the Vigilante means that, unless the Mafia or the Vigilante kill the Doctor tonight, then we are actually guarenteed to win if the Mafia attempts to take out the Doctor, and the Vigilante kills anyone other than the Doctor (even a villager).
????

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:49 PM
So, basically, revealing the Masons actually protects the Doctor from the Mafia, because the Mafia can't risk targetting him.

gesalt
October 11th, 2012, 07:53 PM
In that case, the legit mason(s) could counterclaim, and the mafia who were posing as masons would be lynched in future turns.

Anyway, I'm also against asking the masons to reveal themselves at the moment. KT's logic about protecting the doctor and vigilante makes sense.
If that happened then all claimers would be subsequently killed. but wow i wish i had Mike in earlier murdergames i played; i've never seen it grow this quickly.

so reading the past few pages means detective is boned and satehi and erl are at the top of the suspicious list huh

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 07:54 PM
jesus fuck Mike what is up with you and MASONS

I'm leaving this discussion, it's too dumb for my tastes.

- - - Updated - - -


So, basically, revealing the Masons actually protects the Doctor from the Mafia, because the Mafia can't risk targetting him.

Uh

Wut?

You do know Masons are basically the same as villagers, right? The only thing they have going in this version of the game is their PMs, and even that has limited to no usefulness

- - - Updated - - -

Anyways, bye

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 07:56 PM
Uh, if I vote for something will it stop the endless circular arguments?

gesalt
October 11th, 2012, 07:58 PM
Uh, if I vote for something will it stop the endless circular arguments?
as long as its for detective it would as we need 2 votes to end the day i think.

​[Lynch Detective Blackstone]

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 07:58 PM
????

Well, if we reveal the Masons and the Vigilante, then we have four known non-Mafia players (including me, once Blackstone is Lynched) vs. three (unknown) Mafia players and five unknown townies (one of whom is the Doctor). Plus, we have two kills to one until the Vigilante is dead, and a Doctor protecting him. So, even if we keep missing and killing townies instead of the Mafia, we can still whittle them down more quickly than the Mafia can kill us.

If we reveal the Masons, then the game state is like this:

4 Known townies (including the vigilante and me)
5 Unknown townies (including the doctor)
3 Mafia

Assume on night 1 that two unknown non-doctor townies are killed (the worst case scenario except if the doctor dies), we have:

4 Known townies
3 Unknown townies (including Doctor)
3 Mafia

Then, suppose we lynch another unknown townie on day 2 (we can't lynch the Doctor unless he's an idiot, because he can just say "I'm the Doctor, don't lynch me"). That leaves us with:

4 Known Townies
2 Unknown Townies (including the Doctor)
3 Mafia.

Now, even if the Doctor and another Unknown Townie is killed, we're left in the following position

4 Known Townies (including vigilante)
3 Mafia

And, from there, we're certain to win.

Highwayman
October 11th, 2012, 08:00 PM
Uh, if I vote for something will it stop the endless circular arguments?

Please lend us a hand and vote for Blackstone ASAP.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:00 PM
It's not circular at the moment. We are actuLly getting somewhere.

I'm currently trying to work through a worst case sesnario for mikes current plan. Give me some more time please.

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 08:00 PM
as long as its for detective it would as we need 2 votes to end the day i think.

​[Lynch Detective Blackstone]
[Lynch Detective Blackstone]

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:01 PM
You idiot.

I think Lianru is mafia, that was just too conviniently-timed. Gesalt is pretty damn suspicious too, as far as I can see.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 08:01 PM
ITS HAPPENING

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:03 PM
Also, I have a strong suspicion that I'll be targetted, based on what I just posted, so the Doctor should protect me.

- - - Updated - - -

Erl, you're looking pretty suspicious too right now, because you seem pretty happy to have just scuppered a very likely game-winning strategy....

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:03 PM
Well, if we reveal the Masons and the Vigilante, then we have four known non-Mafia players (including me, once Blackstone is Lynched) vs. three (unknown) Mafia players and five unknown townies (one of whom is the Doctor). Plus, we have two kills to one until the Vigilante is dead, and a Doctor protecting him. So, even if we keep missing and killing townies instead of the Mafia, we can still whittle them down more quickly than the Mafia can kill us.

If we reveal the Masons, then the game state is like this:

4 Known townies (including the vigilante and me)
5 Unknown townies (including the doctor)
3 Mafia

Assume on night 1 that two unknown non-doctor townies are killed (the worst case scenario except if the doctor dies), we have:

4 Known townies
3 Unknown townies (including Doctor)
3 Mafia

Then, suppose we lynch another unknown townie on day 2 (we can't lynch the Doctor unless he's an idiot, because he can just say "I'm the Doctor, don't lynch me"). That leaves us with:

4 Known Townies
2 Unknown Townies (including the Doctor)
3 Mafia.

Now, even if the Doctor and another Unknown Townie is killed, we're left in the following position

4 Known Townies (including vigilante)
3 Mafia

And, from there, we're certain to win.

The only issue I can spot is if someone falsely pretends to be the doctor, but even that works out because the doctor can speak up then.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Oh, and, BTW, Lianru is a Mathematician, so she knows damn well what I was talking about here. I'd say that I'm about 90% certain she's Mafia at this point, particularly given her previous silence.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:04 PM
Too late for anything now. Oh well.

Katie
October 11th, 2012, 08:05 PM
Mike, you do realize people can counterclaim for vigilante, right?

You are putting too much faith in these people.

Also, jesus fuck Mike, everyone whom you think is suspicious is everyone but you. :|

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:05 PM
The only issue I can spot is if someone falsely pretends to be the doctor, but even that works out because the doctor can speak up then.

It's too late now, because Lianru and gesalt just scuppered it. Since I might be dead tomorrow, I suggest lynching Lianru, because she's not contributed much and, given her apparent mathematical ability, her willingness to cut short our discussion is highly suspicious.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:06 PM
Mike, you do realize people can counterclaim for vigilante, right?

You are putting too much faith in these people.

Also, jesus fuck Mike, everyone whom you think is suspicious is everyone but you. :|

To be fair, it is very easy to get paranoid with this game.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:07 PM
Mike, you do realize people can counterclaim for vigilante, right?

You are putting too much faith in these people.

No, I know that's possible, but at very least it's a mutual kill, because the Vigilante can kill the Mafia guy, or failing that the Mafia guy can be lynched the day after.


Also, jesus fuck Mike, everyone whom you think is suspicious is everyone but you. :|

Well, yeah, that's kind-of how the game works. Lianru is making herself pretty damn suspicious by cutting off a relevant discussion, though....

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 08:08 PM
Also, I have a strong suspicion that I'll be targetted, based on what I just posted, so the Doctor should protect me.

- - - Updated - - -

Erl, you're looking pretty suspicious too right now, because you seem pretty happy to have just scuppered a very likely game-winning strategy....

Oh yes, very likely except for the fact that the doctor getting hit screws everything up, the mafia can just pretend to be masons by PMing each other and nobody will be able to tell who's who besides the actual masons and the mafia (since we've got no cop), so if the game doesn't go exactly how you want it (which won't happen) we'll all lose.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:10 PM
OK, well, I'd say I'm about 90% certain Lianru and gesalt are Mafia. Gesalt jumped straight on the whole "no-lynch" thing yesterday, and then didn't post at all after that, except to end a useful discussion, with Lianru's immediate help.

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Oh yes, very likely except for the fact that the doctor getting hit screws everything up, the mafia can just pretend to be masons by PMing each other and nobody will be able to tell who's who besides the actual masons and the mafia (since we've got no cop), so if the game doesn't go exactly how you want it (which won't happen) we'll all lose.

Note that what I said was the worst-case scenario, if we get the votes wrong. If we lynch or vigilante-kill even one Mafia guy, we've won almost for sure.

And, if the Mafia claim as Masons, then we've unearthed two Mafia players, and we only have to lynch one of the Masons at most to find out who they are. Getting two Mafia for one mason is an excellent deal. Them claiming as the Vigilante is a much bigger deal, given we do not have a cop.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:10 PM
Meh. This is the point where we all need to remind ourselves of an important fact.

This is a GAME. I do want to win, but letsnot take this too seriously.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:11 PM
Oops, sorry, forgot I wasn't supposed to edit....

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 08:12 PM
given her apparent mathematical ability
(this has nothing to do with Mafia, but I have to ask) where does this keep coming from?

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:13 PM
(this has nothing to do with Mafia, but I have to ask) where does this keep coming from?

I do hear about you being some type of mathmetision(sp?) a lot.

SeiKeo
October 11th, 2012, 08:13 PM
It's a meme.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:13 PM
Meh. This is the point where we all need to remind ourselves of an important fact.

This is a GAME. I do want to win, but letsnot take this too seriously.

I'm not "taking it seriously", I'm pointing things out. Either they've made a big fuck-up, or they're Mafia. It's generally much wiser to assume the second....


(this has nothing to do with Mafia, but I have to ask) where does this keep coming from?

Dunno, it's just what I've heard about you. And, it is very definitely relevant here....

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 08:14 PM
It's a meme.
Who is responsible for spreading it :<

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:15 PM
Mike, I wasn't pointing that comment at you, but at everybody. Including myself.

Tempers were getting heated. Calling and action 'fucking up' doesn't help.

SeiKeo
October 11th, 2012, 08:15 PM
Who is responsible for spreading it :<

Sateshi, Ace, Katie, and you since you always seem to be doing it.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:16 PM
Who is responsible for spreading it :<

As best I can tell, everyone. It's one of the first things I learned while playing Round I the 7th when I first joined. And it's one of the few things I remembered after being gone for months.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:17 PM
Mike, I wasn't pointing that comment at you, but at everybody. Including myself.

Tempers were getting heated. Calling and action 'fucking up' doesn't help.

I called it that because that's what it was. That wasn't me being "angry", that's just how I speak....

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:17 PM
By the way, a couple posts up. I meant An instead of And.

Lianru
October 11th, 2012, 08:17 PM
Sateshi, Ace, Katie, and you since you always seem to be doing it.
raaaaaaaaargh

Chaos Greyblood
October 11th, 2012, 08:18 PM
Well then, looks like we may have to make the choice now. If things got exacerbated with these votes, that only complicates things for a bit, but that means that new suspicions have risen on this complicated web we have just weaved.

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:18 PM
I called it that because that's what it was. That wasn't me being "angry", that's just how I speak....

It also sounds very insulting. Therefore, it is not helping the situation.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 08:21 PM
And, if the Mafia claim as Masons, then we've unearthed two Mafia players, and we only have to lynch one of the Masons at most to find out who they are. Getting two Mafia for one mason is an excellent deal. Them claiming as the Vigilante is a much bigger deal, given we do not have a cop.

Where have I seen this before?

Oh wait.


There's no need to talk about the obvious outcome.
Mike 1984 will turn his mind to steel,
and become a super cop.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:22 PM
You do know Masons are basically the same as villagers, right? The only thing they have going in this version of the game is their PMs, and even that has limited to no usefulness

No, they also have the fact that they know who the other Mason is, and can vouch for each other. Sure, the Mafia can do the same, but that means linking them together.

Erlkonig
October 11th, 2012, 08:24 PM
No, they also have the fact that they know who the other Mason is, and can vouch for each other. Sure, the Mafia can do the same, but that means linking them together.

Oh... You're right, and roles do get revealed when people die.

...

Well, all we can do now is wait.

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:27 PM
Oh... You're right, and roles do get revealed when people die.

Strange how you recognised this after it was too late to do anything about it....

You're very high up on my "Mafia" list. Right now, I'd suggest whoever the vigilante is kill either gesalt or Lianru, but you'd be third, above even Chaos (who I'm not entirely sure just doesn't understand the game...).

2ndsly
October 11th, 2012, 08:27 PM
*sigh*

Mike1984
October 11th, 2012, 08:29 PM
And, it's not like what you just said was particularly non-obvious, either....

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To Erl, I mean.

And, 2ndsly, what's the issue? I'm doing what we're supposed to do, which is work out who is likely Mafia. I think there's a decent chance I'll be dead by tomorrow, so I'm getting out everything I think is relevant now.