Random Thoughts Thread

[Pillzman]

i mean i think undertale is alright

just that i really dont understand the fanatical devotion people show to the idea that you literally ruin the game if you dont play along with its own rules

the fanbase is kinda really awful, that's the thing

[2Bad]

e: snip

[Pillzman]

So is adding people on snapchat

why

[Zurvan]

Undertale is overrated as hell, but the game isn't shit
Just play it and bitch about it later

[2Bad]

the fanbase is kinda really awful, that's the thing
I mean hey, I made the UT thread and proceeded to get annoyed to people who got super into it over there so that tells you how I feel

but that has nothing to do with the game itself

[SeiKeo]

Undertale is overrated as hell, but the game isn't shit
Just play it and bitch about it later
I try not to make a hobby out of media masochism.

[2Bad]

I said that I preferred to use it differently.
And that's not how fucking language works.

I told you before what people end up liking about the game: they grow attached to the characters over the course of the game, it does some really crazy shit with presentation (especially towards the end), and has some interesting things to say about how games themselves are designed. It's not my fault you just decided to selectively edit that out of your memory. Claiming I gave you no reason at all is an outright falsehood.

[Zurvan]

why

Some people just never check it
Which kills the fun

[Petrikow]

You yourself were expressing that very idea moments ago

i think i worded what i said poorly

but thats not what i meant

i dont agree with the fact that people are like "you dont even deserve to see the good parts of the game if you take an option the game itself presents to you"

some people even think that if you do genocide you have somehow done the game wrong

and to some point i cant blame them because the game itself kinda says that

but i cant agree with making the game bad so you can sell people on the real way to play it

an intentionally bad game is still just a bad game

[2Bad]

i think i worded what i said poorly

but thats not what i meant

i dont agree with the fact that people are like "you dont even deserve to see the good parts of the game if you take an option the game itself presents to you"

some people even think that if you do genocide you have somehow done the game wrong

and to some point i cant blame them because the game itself kinda says that

but i cant agree with making the game bad so you can sell people on the real way to play it

an intentionally bad game is still just a bad game
Then there's kind of no argument to have there because the divergence is entirely "I think this as an interesting design choice" vs "I don't"

[SeiKeo]

i think i worded what i said poorly

but thats not what i meant

i dont agree with the fact that people are like "you dont even deserve to see the good parts of the game if you take an option the game itself presents to you"

some people even think that if you do genocide you have somehow done the game wrong

and to some point i cant blame them because the game itself kinda says that

but i cant agree with making the game bad so you can sell people on the real way to play it

an intentionally bad game is still just a bad game
The problem (in general) is that this is an aesthetic trap. 'Games should be mechanically pleasant and making them not so is at cross purposes with their creation' is legit, but once you introduce choice, combining the two and an intentional moral outlook means that you have to reward players for doing 'the wrong thing' - which obviously isn't the point, so how do you design out of this?

[Petrikow]

its one of those theoretically interesting design choices which are not very interesting in practice


The problem (in general) is that this is an aesthetic trap. 'Games should be mechanically pleasant and making them not so is at cross purposes with their creation' is legit, but once you introduce choice, combining the two and an intentional moral outlook means that you have to reward players for doing 'the wrong thing' - which obviously isn't the point, so how do you design out of this?

you can introduce moral dilemma and make people reflect on their choices without making the game shit (see: specs ops the line(though obviously specs ops gives you no choice so its not entirely comparable))

sometimes the genocide route appeals to your emotions

but most of the time it just frustrates you with endless grinding

[2Bad]

are you actually arguing in favor of the game you just refused to keep playing

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its one of those theoretically interesting design choices which are not very interesting in practice
extremely interesting, imo

and it does the work to change things to compensate for who you do and don't kill too, the neutral route has a billion gradations

[SeiKeo]

are you actually arguing in favor of the game you just refused to keep playing

It's an interesting problem, not an endorsement of any particular solution.

[Yato]

Undertale is pretty ok
you should try it

i have successfully shielded myself from the fanbase though so i wouldn't know how bad it is

[2Bad]

Undertale is pretty ok
you should try it

i have successfully shielded myself from the fanbase though so i wouldn't know how bad it is
large swathes of it are annoying and refuse to play anything else

there's some good art/remixes out of it, that's kind of all I can say

[Petrikow]

extremely interesting, imo

and it does the work to change things to compensate for who you do and don't kill too, the neutral route has a billion gradations

those gradations are just like

a few lines here and there and a slightly different ending which is also just a few lines of text

wow

e n d l e s s g r a d i a t i o n s

[Frostyvale]

@Everyone, what was the first game you played where almost any NPC could be killed? How did you feel, being in complete control of a few little lives?

[SeiKeo]

@Everyone, what was the first game you played where almost any NPC could be killed? How did you feel, being in complete control of a few little lives?
DOTA makes me feel nothing.

[2Bad]

those gradations are just like

a few lines here and there and a slightly different ending which is also just a few lines of text

wow

e n d l e s s g r a d i a t i o n s

It's more work than most would bother with. And again you miss the basic point of: Pacifist Run has no meaning without the option to kill everyone, so those gradations are necessary to have just as much as outright Genocide is.

[Zurvan]

@Everyone, what was the first game you played where almost any NPC could be killed? How did you feel, being in complete control of a few little lives?

No idea
Never cared for data other than my own

[Frostyvale]

DOTA makes me feel nothing.
In Dota the player character is compelled to slaughter the mentally ill for money.

Not, indeed, that this should make you feel anything!

[Petrikow]

@Everyone, what was the first game you played where almost any NPC could be killed? How did you feel, being in complete control of a few little lives?

probably morrowind

but i cant remember how i felt because i was like 13

[Historia]

still discussing about games... huh

[Zurvan]

You know what the best part of Undertale is?

Getting dunked on

[Sesto]

@Everyone, what was the first game you played where almost any NPC could be killed? How did you feel, being in complete control of a few little lives?

fire emblem awakening i guess

it made me feel sad because they were my friends

[Zurvan]

Shrap, what's your favourite fic?

[2Bad]

I never personally did that. I got the True Ending and was satisfied with reading the other stuff.

[Spinach]

probably morrowind

this

can't remember how I felt either

I also didn't get to play more than like 5 hours since it was my friend's game and I was at his house and like rly who just goes to a friend's place and plays a solo game and also I was like IDK how old.

[Petrikow]

It's more work than most would bother with. And again you miss the basic point of: Pacifist Run has no meaning without the option to kill everyone, so those gradations are necessary to have just as much as outright Genocide is.

i already acknowledged that pacifism isnt meaningful without the option to kill and i agree with that choice

but the entire game is just a setup for that meaning, not anything else

there is literally no moral complexity in this paradigm

bad option vs good option

black vs white

really boring choice imo

[Historia]

i went into this video thinking these would all be shit...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw5uDqpw5uU

... and i was not wrong

[2Bad]

i already acknowledged that pacifism isnt meaningful without the option to kill and i agree with that choice

but the entire game is just a setup for that meaning, not anything else

there is literally no moral complexity in this paradigm

bad option vs good option

black vs white

really boring choice imo

I would argue that it doesn't always need to be Planescape Torment. Sometimes the cute, funny game with some structural flexibility is enough.

[Frostyvale]

fire emblem awakening i guess

it made me feel sad because they were my friends
I look at it another way.

It makes me happy that I have friends that trust me enough to put their lives in my hand. It feels like we're a band of brothers setting off against the world, united with a common purpose.

A sacred oath, under the peach trees...

[Zurvan]

The fate op was good imo

[Historia]

Shrap, what's your favourite fic?

let's go with this: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9994699/1/Just-What-Needs-To-Be-Thrown-Aside

[Petrikow]

dont get me wrong i think the true ending stuff are great and well executed scenes

but it sorta loses weight when the game just outright doesnt actually acknowledge the legitimacy of the other choices

for me the biggest accomplishment of the game is as i briefly mentioned before its rather experimental nature which is also where some of its bad parts manifest through

its a brave game with a lot of cool ideas

[Historia]

The fate op was good imo

aimer was 13 instead of top 5

bullshit list

[Zurvan]

Oh yeah the list is shit
As is every list on the internet

[Historia]

oh and if i had to pick one of the shorts from that fic i linked it would be https://www.fanfiction.net/s/9994699/5/Just-What-Needs-To-Be-Thrown-Aside

because annie

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and not just because it's the only one i bothered to actually read

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using "lit her eyes, lit behind his eyes" or any variation--whathaveyou--of someone coming to a realization or memory or whatever the hell your eyes lighting up means...

... i dun liek eiat

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i will say that this opening is the bomb:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFNka8_GIJ8

kana-boon 2 gud

[2Bad]

dont get me wrong i think the true ending stuff are great and well executed scenes

but it sorta loses weight when the game just outright doesnt actually acknowledge the legitimacy of the other choices
I mean I don't think there's any need for it to grant legitimacy to the darker neutral or Genocide endings, but as far as the better neutral endings go
Both Asgore and Omega Flowey would be amazing final bosses in any other game. There's nothing stopping you from closing it up right there and accepting a pretty good ending. The only in-game push to continue is Flowey, who is outright manipulating you into it. Hell, in the Sans fight he even implies that he dislikes the notion of even a benevolent entity fucking with time.

[Historia]

anyway i'm going back to reading Jitsu wa Watashi wa

[Zurvan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PaVksrBJlk

Who would have thought

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I do love shutting this forum up

[Petrikow]

I mean I don't think there's any need for it to grant legitimacy to the darker neutral or Genocide endings, but as far as the better neutral endings go
Both Asgore and Omega Flowey would be amazing final bosses in any other game. There's nothing stopping you from closing it up right there and accepting a pretty good ending. The only in-game push to continue is Flowey, who is outright manipulating you into it. Hell, in the Sans fight he even implies that he dislikes the notion of even a benevolent entity fucking with time.

omega flowey is kinda cool for the novelty but i dont actually like asgore that much as a fight honestly
as someone who plays 2hu undertale is kinda easy so what makes the boss fights for me are the funny gimmicks and asgore is just a boring schmup boss
and no i totally think it matters

the way only pacifism matters in the game makes everything else a false choice which severely undermines the choices to begin with

[Historia]

Who would have thought

http://i.imgur.com/vDStzQL.gif

[Sesto]

http://i.imgur.com/7rT3vnC.gif

so apparently this bear lived 30 years in a cage before being moved to a sanctuary

i wonder, when i reach 30 years, will i also be freed from the cage of everyday life and get moved to a sanctuay. i hope so

[Historia]

Kyoukai no Kanata has a good op and ed... the ed is better

[2Bad]

omega flowey is kinda cool for the novelty but i dont actually like asgore that much as a fight honestly
as someone who plays 2hu undertale is kinda easy so what makes the boss fights for me are the funny gimmicks and asgore is just a boring schmup boss
and no i totally think it matters

the way only pacifism matters in the game makes everything else a false choice which severely undermines the choices to begin with
Oh well lol I don't give a shit about difficulty whatsoever since I don't like schmups, he's a thematically appropriate boss. Destroys mercy, uses the same attacks as Toriel, fills you with determination, etc

But again, I don't think it does. Like, again, when you beat that first run, the game never overly shames you for it or anything unless you did a bunch of heinous shit for no reason. Certainly if your one kill is Asgore it doesn't, only the character who wants you to fuck with time pushes you to do it, and for an explicitly sinister purpose (doesn't work but there you go).

As for darker shit, ignoring Genocide, what kind of support do you want the game to give those? Do you want a pat on the back if you choose to kill the funny skeleton man? Hell, even the ones actually out to get you are incapable of doing so since reloading is a thing you literally do in universe, they pose no real threat. The only one who does is Flowey, and if you DO kill him at the end of a normal run there totally isn't any punishment, besides not getting hints.

e: UT is an interesting game and I like to pick at it

[Frostyvale]

I guess it's time to give up on ranked matchmaking.

I'll try my hand at Overthrow tomorrow.

[Spinach]

Be sure to @ me and Petri in Skype A Shit.

[Petrikow]

Oh well lol I don't give a shit about difficulty whatsoever since I don't like schmups, he's a thematically appropriate boss. Destroys mercy, uses the same attacks as Toriel, fills you with determination, etc

But again, I don't think it does. Like, again, when you beat that first run, the game never overly shames you for it or anything unless you did a bunch of heinous shit for no reason. Certainly if your one kill is Asgore it doesn't, only the character who wants you to fuck with time pushes you to do it, and for an explicitly sinister purpose (doesn't work but there you go).

As for darker shit, ignoring Genocide, what kind of support do you want the game to give those? Do you want a pat on the back if you choose to kill the funny skeleton man? Hell, even the ones actually out to get you are incapable of doing so since reloading is a thing you literally do in universe, they pose no real threat. The only one who does is Flowey, and if you DO kill him at the end of a normal run there totally isn't any punishment, besides not getting hints.

e: UT is an interesting game and I like to pick at it

i dont want a "pat on the back"

id rather the game make me feel more bad about it if anything

but not by just taking its toys and going home but by actually showing me the consequences outside of sans saying mean things near the end of the game

it just feels kinda half-assed and hey maybe thats just the restrictions of an indie-game but its like

pacifist run: a complete game
everything else: not a complete game

so unless you have some pathological hatred for the characters of the game why would you ever be taking a choice which leads to a gameplay experience which just denies you from the good parts

thats why its a false choice

because you dont have any reason to take the other ones

i like the point of a game "where you dont have to kill anyone"

but its execution is lacking because it becomes "where you have to spare everyone" rather than any actual real choice

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I guess it's time to give up on ranked matchmaking.

I'll try my hand at Overthrow tomorrow.


Be sure to @ me and Petri in Skype A Shit.

yeah sounds good

overthrow is fun

[2Bad]

i dont want a "pat on the back"

id rather the game make me feel more bad about it if anything

but not by just taking its toys and going home but by actually showing me the consequences outside of sans saying mean things near the end of the game

it just feels kinda half-assed and hey maybe thats just the restrictions of an indie-game but its like

pacifist run: a complete game
everything else: not a complete game
There's a number of key details you actually miss out on regarding the setting and backstory if you never do or at least read all about Genocide, but one of the things Undertale comments on is the player need for completion at any cost. You reach the end of True Pacifist, and then go and try to play Genocide "just to see what happens" and Flowey is so upset by the notion he asks you to wipe his memory and return him to being evil. You go through Genocide first so you can be satisfied with the "final" ending afterwards, and Chara taints your true ending by murdering everyone. Hell, Flowey even mocks the people who try to watch Genocide on youtube in his replacement of the "undertale" segment.

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Oh yeah and
there's also all that Gaster shit but that's like a hidden, weird second gameish thing that's partly about mocking dataminers for looking at it as much as anything, it's ancillary

[Petrikow]

i was addressing the neutral stuff in that post

as for the genocide route

well i talked about it before

but it would be nice if it didnt make the game terrible aside from two boss fights

if anything it feels even more incomplete because it just gives up and lets you oneshot everything between undyne and sans

also the gaster stuff is completely irrelevant to this argument lol

[2Bad]

i was addressing the neutral stuff in that post

as for the genocide route

well i talked about it before

but it would be nice if it didnt make the game terrible aside from two boss fights

if anything it feels even more incomplete because it just gives up and lets you oneshot everything between undyne and sans

also the gaster stuff is completely irrelevant to this argument lol

I did say it was ancillary but as that is the other "game" in there I mentioned it for, ironically I suppose, completion's sake.

Genocide is genocide, I think making it a punishment is fair but we've covered that.

I'm still not sure what you want Neutral to be, how would you fix the problem in your mind?

[Petrikow]

by making it worth playing as a viable alternative to pacifism

not as a failed attempt at pacifism

[2Bad]

by making it worth playing as a viable alternative to pacifism

not as a failed attempt at pacifism
Okay sure but then that's just an entirely different game, not an improved version of this one.

[Petrikow]

not really

why are the pacifist endings in the game if there is literally no point to playing them over the pacifist route?

[2Bad]

not really

why are the pacifist endings in the game if there is literally no point to playing them over the pacifist route?
because

again

if the choice isn't there EACH TIME, there's no meaning (it also lets you jump off Genocide if you want to)

you're basically proposing that they're be pros and cons to assassinating these people, but that's asking different game (although I guess there are different outcomes for who can replace asgore depending on the bosses you kill)

It's not SMT. Not killing people shouldn't be like, a Law Route or whatever.

[Petrikow]

again

the choice is meaningless because there is no reason to take the other option

its just a shitty trap to trick you out of experiencing the good parts of the game

no im not proposing there are pros and cons

im just saying you can introduce other "cons" rather than the game just stripping itself of content

also they are not people

they are pixels

[2Bad]

Like I hate giving you the same answer repeatedly but you keep asking me the same question so???

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also they are not people

they are pixels
I mean at this point why discuss the narrative at all

[Petrikow]

just forgot i said that

but basically please dont introduce real morals onto pixels when discussing game design

ive already given a rebute to your answer and you dont care so i guess youre stuck on giving the same answer?

[2Bad]

I mean as I said at the start this is never going to go anywhere because at the end of the day I do think the existence of the other routes as is fits to make Pacifist work and you don't so???

As far as morality goes I'm just reiterating the in-universe logic.

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Basically any complaints I have for UT are confined to the early game, the Ruins is weak.

Oh, except for your movement I guess. Your heart is just a tick to slow for my liking.

[Gl❀w]

important question: is memewatch actually still happening this weekend

[2Bad]

Oh, probably not, sorry. I have to work on my seminar paper.

4500 on one Mr Julian wheeeeer

[Gl❀w]

No that's cool i had other plans anyway

[GhostDIGIT]

Just got back from grocery shopping, time to eat some snacks.

[Petrikow]

well i will accept that you dont actually have any real thoughts about the false choice and just say that you like it for no particular reason so i guess good for you

but i prefer to actually think about stuff

eh that sounds a bit mean sorry

but please dont go all "this is going nowhere" on me when you are the one making it go nowhere

[2Bad]

well i will accept that you dont actually have any real thoughts about the false choice and just say that you like it for no particular reason so i guess good for you

but i prefer to actually think about stuff

eh that sounds a bit mean sorry

but please dont go all "this is going nowhere" on me when you are the one making it go nowhere
It's not a false choice though. You can get a number of perfectly valid endings from it, as I have already covered! The game has a preferred one of course but yes hello welcome to games with true endings!?

[Sesto]

http://i.imgur.com/F3pENuZ.png

[2Bad]

Having fun sesto

[Sesto]

yes thank you for asking my friend rodyleo

[Petrikow]

no, the choice is false because you literally have no reason to take it over the other one

the neutral endings do not contribute anything

they are just pacifist without the ending and a bunch of other content

so why would you ever take the option to kill

all you do is make the game worse

[2Bad]

no, the choice is false because you literally have no reason to take it over the other one

the neutral endings do not contribute anything

they are just pacifist without the ending and a bunch of other content
they are, themselves, content, as is genocide

[Petrikow]

really shitty content which denies you from other more expansive content that is good yeah sure

[2Bad]

yes petri, if you don't do everything correctly you don't get the best ending

that's how that works

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This is like taking umbrage with some theoretical Symphony where Maria was just automatically in front of Dracula's chamber, gave you everything you needed and told you to attack the orb, and then complaining the Reverse Castle didn't open when you just murdered Richter.

[Petrikow]

that kinda logic should not imply having to miss out on 30 minutes of a 6 hour game

you think heavens feel true end should be like almost 10% of the game?

sotn reverse castle is shit so who cares

[Sesto]

why do some people have + besides their name in "users browsing this thread"

wondered this for a while but didn't know where to ask

[SeiKeo]

why do some people have + besides their name in "users browsing this thread"

wondered this for a while but didn't know where to ask
Friend or contact

[Petrikow]

why do some people have + besides their name in "users browsing this thread"

wondered this for a while but didn't know where to ask

Friends list people

[Sesto]

rodyle had a plus and i was so excited he added me but then i realize it's just because i added him as a contact

ruined my night to be quite honest

[2Bad]

that kinda logic should not imply having to miss out on 30 minutes of a 6 hour game

you think heavens feel true end should be like almost 10% of the game?
More like I think Normal would be better if you couldn't get the Kotomine fight at all instead of just missing it if you spend a projection yeah, because that makes True way more impressive (it's what happened to me!)

well yes but it's an example everyone can understand

[Petrikow]

Ok?

answering rhetoricl questions...

[2Bad]

Anyway yeah no, your argument hinges on making normal some larger, more substantial thing instead of the predecessor to True it's meant to be, which would again, be a different game, not an improved version of the same one. Do you have some notion as to how that would work or is that just spitballing?

[Petrikow]

id rather the game sort of turn wanton violence into a slippery slope where the characters actively turn against you after a while, forcing mercy to eventually cease working and leaving you with no option but to fight

this would be 'neutral' and would more heavily lean towards the morals the game itself presents where persevering and sparing everyone is the only good thing to do

pacifism would be much more heavy as then you could see the consequences of sparing rando npc#32 much clearer through the lens of neutral

i guess keep genocide? maybe make it brutally difficult as each boss goes to more and more extreme lenghts to stop you from completing the game?

[GhostDIGIT]

>Owner of apartment sells apartment that moi is dwelling in
>Big sis drops the news
>Cue family meeting
>Possible solution presents itself but involves bringing in relatives

Oh dear fucking god, if I have to go through this family hold up bullshit one more goddamn time I'm going to end up murdering someone.

[2Bad]

id rather the game sort of turn wanton violence into a slippery slope where the characters actively turn against you after a while, forcing mercy to eventually cease working and leaving you with no option but to fight

this would be 'neutral' and would more heavily lean towards the morals the game itself presents where persevering and sparing everyone is the only good thing to do

pacifism would be much more heavy as then you could see the consequences of sparing rando npc#32 much clearer through the lens of neutral

i guess keep genocide? maybe make it brutally difficult as each boss goes to more and more extreme lenghts to stop you from completing the game?
okay but what's after awhile? how many versions of neutral do you have for this? Does one death just prevent you from ever using mercy every again, as now everyone believes you're a crazy murderer and you just have to keep doing crazy murder because they're trying to put you down?

[just Beamu]

>Owner of apartment sells apartment that moi is dwelling in
>Big sis drops the news
>Cue family meeting
>Possible solution presents itself but involves bringing in relatives

Oh dear fucking god, if I have to go through this family hold up bullshit one more goddamn time I'm going to end up murdering someone.
Murder source of trouble

[GhostDIGIT]

Murder source of trouble
I will, trust me, I will.

[Petrikow]

more like 1 murder makes people start viewing you with distrust

monsters start to try and get rid of you

at some point a boss (maybe undyne) truly then forces the choice between killing her or you dying after which more and more fights afterwards start forcing the same dilemma

as for amount of versions probably just 1 with small differences here and there depending on those you did spare

guess you can keep the 'THIS PERSON IS NOW KING' endings but i mean they barely effect the experience

[2Bad]

Monsters try to get rid of you by default, are you saying they should be utterly non-aggressive at the start?

[Petrikow]

no? mean more like the narrative shifts towards the npcs actually viewing you as more of a threat rather than like

walking soul jar bring to asgore for reward

sorta like it is in genocide but not as uh

apocalyptic

[2Bad]

That's what Genocide is.

[Petrikow]

less walking demon from hell bent on universal destruction

more wanted terrorist

[2Bad]

You said that mercy would stop working, but when is this mysterious threshold that makes it stop? Like it's a neat idea but kind of makes no sense in terms of actually implementing it and then fitting it with the other two, which is why I say you're making a different game at that point instead of criticizing the one that exists.

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Like are you immediately branded after 1 kill in the Ruins? You're locked out of pacifist and say there should only be one neutral, so that must be it then yes?

[Petrikow]

i didnt mean 'mercy button disappears' but rather certain encounters start making it ineffective effectively forcing you to murder to survive (and continue playing)

[2Bad]

Yes I know what you meant, my question doesn't change.

[Petrikow]

asgore already does this is that too much of a stretch?

[2Bad]

that's once for a specific fight, it's not something that just occurs in fights after an undefined point

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like is your premise that you make one kill and then things progress totally normally until you meet Undyne, who reveals she's heard about it, and then things split?

[Petrikow]

guess the ruins wont count but pretty much yeah

youd have to make more adjustments than i can cover on my phone in bed at 6 am

and im obviously not planning on like actually remaking the game nor do i think i have it all figured out

but im not sure if criticism of a game should ever need to include this kind of lurid detail and it is a bit boorish of you to pretend as such

[2Bad]

You wanted to think about the neutral route

we have now done that

[Petrikow]

i did

you didnt do shit

[2Bad]

if you like

[Petrikow]

im glad you actually gave up arguing to like

probe me for fanfiction ideas

i mean not really why did i ever humour that actually

[Prix with a Silent X]

> catching up on RT after a while


The main advantage of eating plants is that you get vitamins in higher concentrations than you can find them in meats, as well as a good amount of water to keep you hydrated. Therefore, whenever you consume meat for the amino acids, be sure to also eat a variety of greens, fruits, and other brightly colored soft things that come from the ground so that you don't get scurvy and die.

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Though I mention this now, it's also important to note that while lemons do indeed taste good after you dilute their juice and add sugar, or heat them up and add sugar, they don't taste so good when you peel them and eat them.

This is the best post on RT today. Good job.

Undertale is neat. I saw part of it. Why is everyone so upset about it? I don't understand most of this thread right now.

[Peanut-007]

April First time to turn on cat hell!

[Petrikow]

Undertale is neat. I saw part of it. Why is everyone so upset about it? I don't understand most of this thread right now.

not upset at all i quite like it

just that i have certain reservations about it which i felt like expanding on

[2Bad]

im glad you actually gave up arguing to like

probe me for fanfiction ideas

i mean not really why did i ever humour that actually
I think the larger question is why you opted to stay up and continue engaging in a nitpicking argument about a game we both like instead of going to sleep.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Undertale is neat. I saw part of it. Why is everyone so upset about it? I don't understand most of this thread right now.

I just don't like the fact that it means I have to see cosplay of it left and right at anime conventions.

[Petrikow]

I think the larger question is why you opted to stay up and continue engaging in a nitpicking argument about a game we both like instead of going to sleep.

i usually fall asleep around 7 or 8 dont worry about me

guess you can worry about why that is

just neet things

[2Bad]

I just don't like the fact that it means I have to see cosplay of it left and right at anime conventions.
I mean I'll complain about the UT fanbase but this is a dumb complaint

[Kotonoha]

I just don't like the fact that it means I have to see cosplay of it left and right at anime conventions.
Don't worry. Homestuck is finally off hiatus, so you can look forward to seeing that again instead!

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I mean I'll complain about the UT fanbase but this is a dumb complaint

Homestuck has me suffering PTSD

- - - Updated - - -


Don't worry. Homestuck is finally off hiatus, so you can look forward to seeing that again instead!

shit

[just Beamu]

Undertale is neat. I saw part of it. Why is everyone so upset about it? I don't understand most of this thread right now.
Same

- - - Updated - - -


Don't worry. Homestuck is finally off hiatus, so you can look forward to seeing that again instead!
Oh dear god no

[2Bad]

Homestuck has me suffering PTSD
Good thing that aside of music there's no connection I guess? People that bring this up are weird.


Every game and scifi convention has been flooded by the anime so it's only fair that anime conventions get the same treatment from games etc

[Petrikow]

theres nothing in the game that demands the fans to go cosplay at anime cons so id rather blame the people who actually do rather than the game itself

and those people wont go away even if undertale does

in 2011-13 they were homestuck fans

then steven universe

now undertale

what is a weeb to do

[2Bad]

soon there shall simply be

The Convention

[Prix with a Silent X]

not upset at all i quite like it

just that i have certain reservations about it which i felt like expanding on

Oh, so a me-like problem. Cool.


I just don't like the fact that it means I have to see cosplay of it left and right at anime conventions.

Too pixelated for meaningful cosplay the best I can tell...???

[Petrikow]

Good thing that aside of music there's no connection I guess? People that bring this up are weird.

i mean it was literally created in andrew hussies basement

just saying

[2Bad]

Too pixelated for meaningful cosplay the best I can tell...???
a: when has pixel art ever stopped anything
b: some of the pixel art in UT is more detailed than others

[just Beamu]

Oh, so a me-like problem. Cool.



Too pixelated for meaningful cosplay the best I can tell...???
The power of human imagination is a Beautiful Thing

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Good thing that aside of music there's no connection I guess? People that bring this up are weird.

Every game and scifi convention has been flooded by the anime so it's only fair that anime conventions get the same treatment from games etc


It's not actually that so much as the fact that you have a convention that is ostensive for promoting Japanese media and culture and then...you have these people and they're taking up time and money for panels and space and photoshoots that could and should actually be spent on legitimate Japan-originating things.

SAO doesn't actually take precedent over Deadpool at Comic Con or anything.

[SeiKeo]

theres nothing in the game that demands the fans to go cosplay at anime cons so id rather blame the people who actually do rather than the game itself

and those people wont go away even if undertale does

in 2011-13 they were homestuck fans

then steven universe

now undertale

what is a weeb to do
I thought they were still seven universe

[2Bad]

It's not actually that so much as the fact that you have a convention that is ostensive for promoting Japanese media and culture and then...you have these people and they're taking up time and money for panels and space and photoshoots that could and should actually be spent on legitimate Japan-originating things.

SAO doesn't actually take precedent over Deadpool at Comic Con or anything.
the culture of anime oh well then that changes everything


i mean it was literally created in andrew hussies basement

just saying
who cares?

[Petrikow]

I thought they were still seven universe

sure there are still smatterings of homestuck fans around as well

just charting the history of Big Thing Invading Anime Cons

[Arashi_Leonhart]

the culture of anime oh well then that changes everything

I'm being specific to Sakura Con, which is run by the Asia Northwest Cultural Education Association and it taking up space provided to things like, oh, I don't know, learning the language, or teaching tea ceremony, or kimono workshops, or things like that, thank you.

[Petrikow]

who cares?

without homestuck undertale could not have been made most probably

[2Bad]

I'm being specific to Sakura Con, which is run by the Asia Northwest Cultural Education Association and it taking up space provided to things like, oh, I don't know, learning the language, or teaching tea ceremony, or kimono workshops, or things like that, thank you.
Conventions are nerd hangouts

nerds hang out there

some of them dress up as the things they are nerds of

the horror


without homestuck undertale could not have been made most probably
That has no bearing on the game itself. To hear some people talk you'd think all those grey weirdos from homestuck were the stars of the game.

[SeiKeo]

You know when you go to the WWII reenactment and you're in a CSA uniform and everyone looks at you weird when you're paling around with the SS guys

[Kotonoha]

I'm being specific to Sakura Con, which is run by the Asia Northwest Cultural Education Association and it taking up space provided to things like, oh, I don't know, learning the language, or teaching tea ceremony, or kimono workshops, or things like that, thank you.
Let's be real nobody is going to an anime con for those things.

[2Bad]

I went to an anime con once and saw a man dressed as Wolverine and thought to myself "THIS SHALL NOT STAND!"

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Conventions are nerd hangouts

nerds hang out there

some of them dress up as the things they are nerds of

the horror

I'm being serious now, not joking about the cosplay. When panels and materials for this not-Japanese thing takes up resources normally going for legitimate Japanese and Asian culture things, there's a problem. And they do. And it's annoying. Like, I wouldn't feel so annoyed by it if it were like, panels talking about the influence of anime and manga on the game or something, but no, it's stuff like "we're going to cosplay and be these characters and do an AMA!"

[2Bad]

let's talk about cultural appropriation

[Peanut-007]

You know when you go to the WWII reenactment and you're in a CSA uniform and everyone looks at you weird when you're paling around with the SS guys

That feel when you start supporting Trump.

[SeiKeo]

don't be a dumbass

[Kotonoha]

Don't hold cultural events at an anime con IMO.

[Petrikow]

you said connection

heck the music too being the same had no bearing on the game so whyd you bring that up then?

i actually think they have a lot of similarities in tone and presentation despite not even being in the same medium

[2Bad]

I'm being serious now, not joking about the cosplay. When panels and materials for this not-Japanese thing takes up resources normally going for legitimate Japanese and Asian culture things, there's a problem. And they do. And it's annoying. Like, I wouldn't feel so annoyed by it if it were like, panels talking about the influence of anime and manga on the game or something, but no, it's stuff like "we're going to cosplay and be these characters and do an AMA!"
an interesting point, friend arashi, allow me to bring up another one

Let's be real nobody is going to an anime con for those things.

- - - Updated - - -


heck the music too being the same had no bearing on the game so whyd you bring that up then?
it's not the music, it's the composer, which I think is fair

I don't know or care about homestuck so I can't comment on that, I simply am not going to entertain the bandied notion that this is a wing of the grand Hussie Empire or whatever

[Arashi_Leonhart]

an interesting point, friend arashi, allow me to bring up another one

Then why do the Kendo demonstrations and Baby the Stars Shine Bright fashion shows have some of the larger turnout?

While those dumb AMAs get like two dozen people and would be better spent getting a drink from a bar down the street.

[Petrikow]

an interesting point, friend arashi, allow me to bring up another one


- - - Updated - - -


it's not the music, it's the composer, which I think is fair

I don't know or care about homestuck so I can't comment on that, I simply am not going to entertain the bandied notion that this is a wing of the grand Hussie Empire or whatever

so you dont know shit

i mean its rodyle what did i expect

[Prix with a Silent X]

soon there shall simply be

The Convention

I think the deal is anime conventions are better-organized and have a better infrastructure, in general, than other kinds of cons that are out there. Other conventions you might have are for a more specific topic, and that makes them have a much smaller number of people who would be interested in coming to a con. So I think weird niche fandoms latch onto anime cons. Not that this makes it less annoying for a weeb out to have a good time, but I think there's a reasonable explanation for it. There's not really a way to have a "weird niche western fandoms" con.

[2Bad]

Then why do the Kendo demonstrations and Baby the Stars Shine Bright fashion shows have some of the larger turnout?

While those dumb AMAs get like two dozen people and would be better spent getting a drink from a bar down the street.
because all of the above are things that weebs or interested in, simply to varying degrees

[Kotonoha]

Arashi the thing is, you are literally an enormous weeaboo so of course you get mad when non-Japanese things are at the anime con but nobody else really cares.

[SeiKeo]

I think asking to not mix the races seems not insane?

[2Bad]

so you dont know shit

i mean its rodyle what did i expect
The point is that the homestuck connection isn't terribly relevant and is almost exclusively brought up in the first place as some kind of attack on the game.

- - - Updated - - -


I think asking to not mix the races seems not insane?
Ah yes, the jew indeed fears the samurai

[Petrikow]

The point is that the homestuck connection isn't terribly relevant and is almost exclusively brought up in the first place as some kind of attack on the game.

you dont even know enough to speak on the connection or not so uh

whatever

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Like, they can go and cosplay with all the other people, that's fine, it's not like we don't have cosplay from other stuff, but the actual legitimate resources that gets wasted on them is annoying.

Yes, I know, most people hang out taking pictures outside and go to buy overpriced stuff, but if I'm gonna be serious about this, it's a specific problem with the resources they hog. I'd complain about the programming people but that wasn't the thing to comment on at the time, and they got dropped this year anyway.

[2Bad]

you dont even know enough to speak on the connection or not so uh

whatever
considering that I tend to hear said connection brought up in the same breath as "it's just an sjw game" you can maybe forgive me if I'm initially dismissive of it mattering

like is there some meaningful comparison you have to make between the two that makes it important to bring up or did you just want to complain about me brushing it aside?

[SeiKeo]

it speaks to the millennial experience of being stuck at home

[2Bad]

it speaks to the millennial experience of being stuck at home
well okay Leo wins the conversation I guess

[Petrikow]

i could but its kinda pointless given your lack of enthusiasm for the subject

if youd read the bloody 8000+ webpage monstrosity im sure you could see some of the similarities

both are after all heavily based on earthbound

[Kotonoha]

I don't really think Undertale and Homestuck are that much alike since to me the defining characteristics of Homestuck were that it was 1) largely shaped by fan feedback (since it started based on user submissions and went on to reference its own fanbase regularly) and 2) fucking huge and dense to the point that nobody has any idea what's going on ever. While Undertale is a small self-contained game.

[Kirby]

What's Homestuck about, again

I've only ever heard about people talking about HS and its fandom, but never HS itself

[Arashi_Leonhart]

because all of the above are things that weebs or interested in, simply to varying degrees

This is not what I'm talking about.

You have x thing. You get a huge room to cover it. It has huge turnout. That's good.

You have something like Undertale, or Homestuck, or likewise thing. You get a huge room to cover it. It has shitty turnout. That's bad. Because that huge room could've gone to something else that's both related and huge room worthy. But hey, no, it's alright, this thing is POPULAR, it'll get plenty of turnout, even though really all those people are hanging outside taking photos and doing glomp circles and whatever. But hey, that's alright, we only didn't get a guest from a show or an artist or something that would've used this space because this was gonna work when it never does.

[Petrikow]

the usage of fonts in undertale indentifying the voices of certain characters is awfully similar to a tactic employed in homestuck, to give a very concrete example

[2Bad]

if youd read the bloody 8000+ webpage monstrosity im sure you could see some of the similarities
Every Homestuck fan I've ever met has also told me not to read Homestuck so I've never done so

[Kotonoha]

the usage of fonts in undertale indentifying the voices of certain characters is awfully similar to a tactic employed in homestuck, to give a very concrete example
characters named after fonts tho

[Petrikow]

What's Homestuck about, again

I've only ever heard about people talking about HS and its fandom, but never HS itself

its like sao but instead of an mmo its multiplayer sims with rpg bosses and instead of being stuck in a virtual game the game just takes over reality

[Kotonoha]

What's Homestuck about, again

I've only ever heard about people talking about HS and its fandom, but never HS itself
Kids and fun

[Petrikow]

Every Homestuck fan I've ever met has also told me not to read Homestuck so I've never done so

i didnt say you should

you really dont have to

just a hypothetical

[Kirby]

It's April 1st

Any signs of anything?

- - - Updated - - -

Test. Shirou. Sakura. Rin

[just Beamu]

I don't really think Undertale and Homestuck are that much alike since to me the defining characteristics of Homestuck were that it was 1) largely shaped by fan feedback (since it started based on user submissions and went on to reference its own fanbase regularly) and 2) fucking huge and dense to the point that nobody has any idea what's going on ever. While Undertale is a small self-contained game.
Have you actually read the entire thing

[2Bad]

This is not what I'm talking about.

You have x thing. You get a huge room to cover it. It has huge turnout. That's good.

You have something like Undertale, or Homestuck, or likewise thing. You get a huge room to cover it. It has shitty turnout. That's bad. Because that huge room could've gone to something else that's both related and huge room worthy. But hey, no, it's alright, this thing is POPULAR, it'll get plenty of turnout, even though really all those people are hanging outside taking photos and doing glomp circles and whatever. But hey, that's alright, we only didn't get a guest from a show or an artist or something that would've used this space because this was gonna work when it never does.
People can register for whatever space they want if the con lets them. If the con is planning on getting guests they will prioritize that if they have to.

[SeiKeo]

glomp circlesum

[Kotonoha]

Have you actually read the entire thing
I read up until the hiatus and kinda just decided I didn't care enough to pick it up again after that.


um
Anime fans never glomp anyone at cons.

[SeiKeo]

@Rodyle

Pick

http://i.imgur.com/Dp7CsrU.png

[2Bad]

hm

[Kirby]

glomp
This brings me back

[Der Ritter]

Hi what's goi-
*discussion about anime-cons and Undertale v. Homestuck*
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/890/503/8d7.gif
Shit like this is why I beat my baby goats.

[Kotonoha]

yaoi paddles

[Kirby]

._.

[Petrikow]

thats nice

[just Beamu]

I read up until the hiatus and kinda just decided I didn't care enough to pick it up again after that.
I'm still amazed by people managing to get that far

[2Bad]

It's hard but I have to go with the classic robe

HA getup is nice but sacrifices wizard appeal and while I definitely am pro-cocktail dress the perspective is slightly off and it lacks enough Medea-accouterments

[SeiKeo]

It's hard but I have to go with the classic robe

HA getup is nice but sacrifices wizard appeal and while I definitely am pro-cocktail dress the perspective is slightly off and lacks enough Medea-accouterments
unlucky because the best ones there are actually the outer edges of assassin or saber medea

[2Bad]

Assassin's basically a different character and I'm just not down for saber medea

[Arashi_Leonhart]

yaoi paddles

banned

no fun and police reports allowed at cons anymore

[2Bad]

Koto, you have good opinions, what's your take on all that FF15 shit from yesterday?

[Petrikow]

I'm still amazed by people managing to get that far

considering millions have read it you must be really amazed about a lot of people

[Kotonoha]

I read that far and am also amazed, it took forever.

It wasn't bad or anything I just got overwhelmed by how long it was, I forgot everything that had happened previously.

[just Beamu]

considering millions have read it you must be really amazed about a lot of people
Apparently yeah

I mean part of it is just because wooooooords

[SeiKeo]

considering millions have read it you must be really amazed about a lot of people
Well yes

[Petrikow]

humanity sure is amazing...

[SeiKeo]

ive been surprised by things you couldn't even believe

[2Bad]

lasers sparkling off the belt of orion or something

[Petrikow]

at least try!!

[SeiKeo]

republicans drinking beer in the shadow of the wall

[2Bad]

I will put on clown makeup and learn how to do battle cartwheels in penance

[just Beamu]

republicans drinking beer in the shadow of the wall
Pina coladas

[Gl❀w]

i feel like i've wasted too much of today and yesterday reading about a bunch of things in this thread i dont give a shit about

[SeiKeo]

Really unlucky tbh.

[2Bad]

i feel like i've wasted too much of today and yesterday reading a bunch of things in this thread i dont give a shit about
you're finally getting the true BL experience

for the next step, play this Boy Band RPG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWBNJutLXYQ

[Der Ritter]

Goats.
Nothing to do with whatever you guys are on about, I just really hate goats.

[Petrikow]

i feel like i've wasted too much of today and yesterday reading about a bunch of things in this thread i dont give a shit about

same but everything ive ever read

[2Bad]

Goats.
Nothing to do with whatever you guys are on about, I just really hate goats.
goats own actually

[just Beamu]

i feel like i've wasted too much of today and yesterday reading about a bunch of things in this thread i dont give a shit about
That's the natural response

[Spinach]

what the fuck are you guys doing

[Gl❀w]

goats own actually

i am starting to believe you literally just say you hold the opposite opinion of whatever someone else likes

[SeiKeo]

what the fuck are you guys doing
Fuck you

[Kirby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-57g_04zZlg

[2Bad]

i am starting to believe you literally just say you hold the opposite opinion of whatever someone else likes
no seriously, do you not see me retweeting goat pictures all the time?

[SeiKeo]

i am starting to believe you literally just say you hold the opposite opinion of whatever someone else likes
damn u discovered the wu tang secret

[Petrikow]

what the fuck are you guys doing

one thing led to the other and basically its all rodyles fault

[Spinach]

Fuck you

Take a public warning for cursing at your better

- - - Updated - - -

haha april fools xd

[Der Ritter]

goats own actually
As someone who has to actually wake up in the morning to feed a bunch of goats (and a sheep) and has to deal with two annoying juvenile goats on a daily basis, I can honestly die saying that, no, goats in fact suck.

[just Beamu]

one thing led to the other
sounds kinky

[SeiKeo]

Take a public warning for cursing at your better

- - - Updated - - -

haha april fools xd
lol!

[Kotonoha]

I'm trying to upload a picture of a cute goat looking pissed off but my imgur app won't upload it, mods????

[Petrikow]

sounds kinkyyeah well

what else do you spend 5 hours of the night doing with another man

[The Geek]

So where did everyone get the psycho Love-Live avatars?

[2Bad]

As someone who has to actually make up in the morning to feed a bunch of goats (and a sheep) and has to deal with two annoying juvenile goats on a daily basis, I can honestly die saying that, no, goats in fact suck.
this isn't a real post so just pretend that instead of reading this phrase you just heard a loud bleat instead

[Gl❀w]

no seriously, do you not see me retweeting goat pictures all the time?

no

[2Bad]

I'm trying to upload a picture of a cute goat looking pissed off but my imgur app won't upload it, mods????
koto glow doesn't believe my devotion to the goat

[Spinach]

lol!

http://i.imgur.com/mBQZEOi.jpg

[Kotonoha]

http://i.imgur.com/oXXG81N.jpg
yes it worked

[2Bad]

das a gud goot

[just Beamu]

yeah well

what else do you spend 5 hours of the night doing with another man
passionate lovemaking

[Petrikow]

i see my joke was explained

[Gl❀w]

koto glow doesn't believe my devotion to the goat

p. sure koto doesnt care about me like at all tbh

[2Bad]

p. sure koto doesnt care about me like at all tbh
koto doesn't care about anyone on BL that's the secret to her power

[Der Ritter]

http://i.imgur.com/oXXG81N.jpg
yes it worked
0/10 not enough fire and ritual sacrifice.

[Kotonoha]

who is... glow......

- - - Updated - - -


0/10 not enough fire and ritual sacrifice.
http://i.imgur.com/dPad6Mj.jpg

[2Bad]

who is... glow......
a shinji hater, as it turns out

[Rafflesiac]

who is... glow......
What I'll be getting on my name again this year.

- - - Updated - - -

Make it happen mAc, make it happen.

[Spinach]

What I'll be getting on my name again this year.

- - - Updated - - -

Make it happen mAc, make it happen.

No chance

[Gl❀w]

who is... glow......



and no disrespect who the fuck is glow

perf a matched set

[just Beamu]

i see my joke was explained
don't diss the lovemaking imo

[Kotonoha]

a shinji hater, as it turns out
Unfortunate...

[just Beamu]

perf a matched set
sig immediately

[Gl❀w]

sig immediately

i'm out of sig space tbh and the snow quote is too good to delete

if i can get a whole lineup of genuine 'who the fuck is glow' quotes i will tho

[Rafflesiac]

No chance
Mooncake won't cockblock me this time.

My ascension is nigh.

[Der Ritter]

http://i.imgur.com/dPad6Mj.jpg
They seem cute when it's just a picture, but real kids are just terrible to deal with.
Also where's the fire, I asked for moar fire!!!

[Gl❀w]

They seem cute when it's just a picture, but real kids are just terrible to deal with.


funny, i also feel this way but people say i'll want them someday

[just Beamu]

funny, i also feel this way but people say i'll want them someday
I am surrounded by small children and it physically hurts

[Gl❀w]

Unfortunate...

so is this a dealbreaker on us being friends

[Spinach]

Mooncake won't cockblock me this time.

But I will

[Prix with a Silent X]

I wondered why everyone had new stupid names and avatars, then I realized. Carry on.

[Rafflesiac]

But I will
Tough talk from someone who hasn't even communed with Nasu.

[Der Ritter]

funny, i also feel this way but people say i'll want them someday
You come up with? Ya think it's clever? Witty?
Cause it is, heres an invisible cookie.

[Spinach]

Tough talk from someone who hasn't even communed with Nasu.

I bet I've invaded Nasu in DkS before.

[Rafflesiac]

I bet I've invaded Nasu in DkS before.
Prove it with screenshots of you standing over his corpse.

[Spinach]

I mean there's no way I'd know it's him. But I bet one of those countless randoms was him.

[The Geek]

Is there anything going on for April Fool's this year? Are we doing anything?

[Gl❀w]

Is there anything going on for April Fool's this year? Are we doing anything?

still logging on tbh

[Leftovers]

If Nasu ain't bothering, why should BL?

[Kirby]

Please wait warmly until it is ready

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Anything coming from people with authority is not to be trusted.

[just Beamu]

Servers were loading slowly and I thought it was April Fools making it happen

but alas

[Spinach]

Even before having authority I don't think anyone trusted me anyway

For april fools DP is resigning btw

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Even before having authority I don't think anyone trusted me anyway

For april fools DP is resigning btw

I trust you

more than I trust Kelnish anyway

[Gl❀w]

Servers were loading slowly and I thought it was April Fools making it happen

but alas

that's the real april fools joke

server fake-out

[The Geek]

All these avatars around me. I didn't think this many people on BL were into Rabu Raibu.

- - - Updated - - -
EDIT: Whoa, what's going on. Servers so slow. Something must be happening.