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aldeayeah
November 20th, 2012, 07:58 AM
I thought it would be nice to have a repository of unanswered questions, just in case something like the 10th Anniversary Twitter Q&A happens again in the future.

What exactly happened to the missing Edelfelt sister in the Third Fuyuki Grail War?

Post questions (preferably in red) and I'll add them to the OP.

If you can come up with an authoritative answer to any of the questions in the OP, post it (preferably in lime). I'll move the question to an "answered" section in the bottom of the OP.

It would be best if discussion was kept out of this thread and into the main questions thread. (http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/10-Questions-questions-and-more-questions-%28read-the-bloody-OP%29)

Unclassified

Q001. If Herakles were summoned into a class other than Berserker, would he have God Hand?

Q002. Can the Noble Phantasms available to a Servant vary depending on the class into which he's summoned?
(Excepting the sealing of Noble Phantasms by Mad Enhancement)

Q003. Where did Archer pick up those armaments he didn't see in the Gate of Babylon, like Rho Aias? Were they from his version of the Holy Grail War?

Q004. Why was Archer affected by the jobs he did as a Counter Guardian? Isn't he stored as an unchanging existence in the Throne?

Q005. Can a Servant in material form be harmed by ordinary weapons? Can they at least push him around?

Q006. Is there any way to kill Araya other than Mystic Eyes of Death Perception? Who could do it and how?

Q007. What are the circuit qualities and quantities of the magi in Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime and Fate?

Q008. Can Lio regrow lost limbs? What other Type-Moon character is closest to him in combat prowess?

Q009. Does Ryougi Shiki's [ ] personality's ability to change the world have any limits she did not mention?

Q010. Does Archer usually rely on his weapon's memories, like Shirou sometimes does? Why didn't he do it in Fate/stay night?

Q011. Was the sword Shirou used to destroy the Grail in Heaven's Feel Excalibur or a poor imitation that was good enough?

Q012. If Sakura had been made the heir to the Tohsaka family, would she also become one of the top 100 magi in the Association's history?

Q013. Why does Ryougi Shiki have difficulty fighting Servants even with her [ ] personality? Is she too slow, not have a suitable weapon, are Noble Phantasms too powerful, or some other factor?

Q014. If Ryougi Shiki can't fight Servants normally how did she kill so many in Fate/Extra? Are Moon Cell Servants abnormally weak, was that a powered up form of Shiki, or is it all just a joke?

Q015. How was Shirou able to kill Berserker with Nine Lives Blade Works? Did the attacks kill him faster then he could develop an immunity to it or did he lose God Hand when his skin rotted off?

Q016. What are the Primordial Demons of Origin that you mentioned among the three strongest Type Moon characters?

Q017. Why were Servants and Dead Apostle Ancestors excluded from that list?

Q018. When Saber defeated Gilgamesh in Fate was she still inside Avalon when she used Excalibur or does she have to leave its protection to attack?

Q019. What would be the original rank of Caliburn as a Noble Phantasm? What would be the rank of Shirou's copy? How was it able to cut off Berserker's arm and kill him 7 times despite God Hand?

Q021. Does the Divinity skill have effects other then those listed in Fate/Extra and making the Servant vulnerable to Enkidu?

Q022. What magecraft, if any is practiced in North America, South America, Africa, and Australia?

Q023. Are there any other half breeds common elsewhere in the world similar to Oni-human families in Japan?

Q024. How strong are the 30 Enforcers of the Clock Tower relative to the Executioners of the Church? How strong are they relative to the Burial Agency?

Q025. How powerful were Divine Spirits during the Age of Gods in comparison to beings like Servants, vampires, Types, and so forth?

Q026. What is the maximum effect Gilgamesh can achieve with Enuma Elish? Destroy the world, a continent, a country, just a single city?

Q027. What other abilities if any does Natalia inherit from her Succubus ancestry other then receiving od from semen and her bodily fluids responding to blood. On the subject of gaining magic energy from semen, is it simply easier for her then most magi or does she get more then usual?

Q028. Since Gilgamesh lived before the Tower of Babel, could he speak the Unified Language to any degree?

Q029. In Complete Material 3, it was mentioned that some Heroes thought to have existed (Heracles, Medusa) were purely fictional. Was this referring to their real world legendary status or does this also apply to the fictional world of Type-Moon as well, and if so how do they differ from Sasaki?

Q030. Is there any legitimacy to the claims that the Ryougi family interbreed with something transcendent, or was this a legend that sprang up because of their split personalities?

Q031. Why did the Age of the Gods end? Was it a lack of faith even though places like India still have millions of believers in Hinduism, or was it some other factor?

Q032. Is the Judeo Christian God a Divine Spirit or something of that nature, or are all miracles simply a result of the magic foundation in Europe? Does Jesus qualify as a Heroic Spirit like Siddhartha, a demigod/full Divine Spirit, or is he just a normal person?

Q033. Do all miracles performed by the Church come from the magic foundation laid down in Europe, and when was said foundation made?

Q034. Rankings for all the GOB originals from the Weapon's Screen, and a rank of Enkidu.

Q037. Is the universe Kanata destroyed equivalent in scope to the standard universe?

Q038. How powerful is a True Ancestor that was born before Arc?

Q039. Does Gilgamesh normally have Sha Nagba Imuru and what does it do? Is it what allows Gilgamesh to accurately judge his opponent?

Q042. To what degree does blackening effect a person's behavior and how does this work Kotomine's comments about Sakura's personality being the same? How can Avenger influence someone's personality when he has to copy a personality wholesale in order to interact with people?

Q043. Do Dead Apostles that don't descend from True Ancestors, like Nrvnqsr Chaos, get any power from the moon?

Q044. If Saber used Avalon, and Bazett tried to counter it with Fragarach, what would happen?

Powerlevels

Q035. Canaan vs Kiritsugu, Canaan vs Kotomine, Canaan vs Shiki (either)

Q036. Kanata vs Arcueid/Servants/27 DAA/etc

Q040. Who would win in a fight, Caster or Zelretch in his prime.

Answered

Q020. Would a B+ Noble Phantasm break through God Hand?
A020. The Lancer vs Berserker Q&A implies that the answer is no.

Q041. Are low-ranking Dead Apostles empowered in any way by the full moon?
A041. It seems that they are, although it's not clear to what extent. Prelude I: For a Dead Apostle, a night of a red moon is when they reach the height of their strength. Even the mediators of the Church who excels in vampire hunting don't dare to fight under the red moon

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 08:09 AM
"We now know that Ryougi Shiki can see lines on Servants, but can she see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?"

"Does Gil have another Gate of Babylon inside the Gate of Babylon? Is infinite recursion the reason that he seems to have unlimited copies of every weapon?"

"Do you even care about DDD? Trick question, nobody cares about DDD."

"Sakura sucks, so much. That's not a question, but isn't it awesome that this didn't derail the topic?"

"What brand of sneaker does Aoko wear? I STILL WANT TO KNOW, MUSHROOM."

That's all I've got for now.

Spinach
November 20th, 2012, 08:11 AM
Lancelot vs Kojirou

Extremely important.

bahamut zero
November 20th, 2012, 08:15 AM
Who is better in bed? Takeuchi or Koyama? How do they compare to Urobuchi?

Seika
November 20th, 2012, 08:15 AM
Do Tōno Shiki's Mystic Eyes allow him to kill Servants? :p

More seriously:
Does Herakles only have God Hand as a Noble Phantasm if he's summoned into the Berserker class?

Generally, are Servants restricted in their NPs by being summoned into a particular class? (Excepting the sealing of Noble Phantasms by Mad Enhancement).

Where did Archer pick up those armaments he didn't see in the Gate of Babylon, like Rho Aias? Were they from his version of the Holy Grail War?

How could Archer be affected by the jobs he did as a Counter Guardian? Shouldn't he be kept as an unchanging existence in the Throne?

Is the fact that Servants can't be harmed by normal weapons solely a function of being able to go into spiritual form?

aldeayeah
November 20th, 2012, 08:16 AM
I hate you all.

EDIT: Seikaaa T_T

Seika
November 20th, 2012, 08:16 AM
I hate you all.

I asked serious questions ... some of them. :p

Spinach
November 20th, 2012, 08:22 AM
My question is 100% serious to me.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 08:27 AM
Without Instant Death, how difficult would it be to kill Araya?
What are the circuit qualities and quantities of the other magi we have seen?
Can Lio regrow limbs or was he talking about something else when his wound wouldn't heal? How powerful is Lio compared to other Type Moon characters?
Does Shiki's ability to change the world have any limits she did not mention?

giorno
November 20th, 2012, 08:29 AM
"Sakura sucks, so much. That's not a question
how dare you >_< Sakura is best heroine and anybody who doesn't think so should feel bad about himself

"why doesn't archer just rely on his weapon's memories instead of using K&B in close combat?"

The Curious Fan
November 20th, 2012, 08:30 AM
What was the weapon Shirou made to destroy the Greater Grail in the Heaven's Feel Normal End? (May this kill the "was it Excalibur?" debates once and for all. hopefully)

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 08:32 AM
god, you know nasu would say "a sword" or something if you arent specific

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 08:41 AM
What was the weapon Shirou made to destroy the Greater Grail in the Heaven's Feel Normal End? (May this kill the "was it Excalibur?" debates once and for all. hopefully)

You're bad at asking Nasu questions. Really bad. You can't just generically ask for information from the guy. That just lets him dodge what you really want to know entirely. No, you state your assumptions and supply him a contradiction in the question, then force him to explain it. Then after he pulls something out of his ass to handwave it, you've successfully expanded our knowledge of the setting.

The Curious Fan
November 20th, 2012, 08:47 AM
You're bad at asking Nasu questions. Really bad. You can't just generically ask for information from the guy. That just lets him dodge what you really want to know entirely. No, you state your assumptions and supply him a contradiction in the question, then force him to explain it. Then after he pulls something out of his ass to handwave it, you've successfully expanded our knowledge of the setting.

Please rephrase my question in a way that is suitable for asking Nasu a question then.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 08:49 AM
Was the sword Shirou used to destroy the Grail in Heaven's Feel Excalibur or a poor imitation that was good enough?

Spinach
November 20th, 2012, 08:50 AM
Had she not been forced to accept the Matou magecraft, would Sakura have the same potential as a magus as Rin has?

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 08:51 AM
Why is their no mape the raids option for Leys and/or Sella. and dont give me any of this Leys was to strong business, you can rape Arcueid-freaking-Brunestud, you could have worked it out!


Had she not been forced to accept the Matou magecraft, would Sakura have the same potential as a magus as Rin has?

I am not certain the correct way to asj this question, but this probably isnt it.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 08:56 AM
If Sakura had been made the heir to the Tohsaka family, would she also become one of the top 100 magi in the Association's history?

Spinach
November 20th, 2012, 09:00 AM
I am not certain the correct way to asj this question, but this probably isnt it.

I don't claim to know how either. Luckily, Terraa is handling the complicated stuff.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 09:05 AM
Technically the way I phrased the question still leaves him wiggle room because top 100 doesn't mean she would occupy the same spot, but I figure at that point it's close enough.

Why does Shiki have difficulty fighting Servants even with her [] personality? Is she too slow, not have a suitable weapon, are Noble Phantasms too powerful, or some other factor?
If she can't fight Servants normally how did she kill so many in Fate/Extra? Are Moon Cell Servants abnormally weak, was that a powered up form of Shiki, or is it all just a joke?

I think that leaves him no wiggle room.

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 09:07 AM
you know he would go "ugh....ugh...Tohno...shiki, doesnt have a [] personality, and though he can see their death, he couldnt actually catch u to one. and he didnt kill any servants in extra, NEXT QUESTION!"

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 09:10 AM
I'll just type or copy and paste her name in kanji if I actually ask the question myself.

How was Shirou able to kill Berserker with Nine Lives Blade Works? Did the attacks kill him faster then he could develop an immunity to it or did he lose God Hand when his skin rotted off?

Seika
November 20th, 2012, 09:15 AM
If we were to Nasu up the questions, then ...


Can Tōno Shiki use his Mystic Eyes to observe lines and points on a Servant? :p

More seriously:
Since Herakles' arm projections are a result of God Hand, and he is said to only have them because of the distortions to his body as a Berserker, does that mean that he would not have God Hand if summoned in another class?

I think the others actually still work reasonably.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 09:28 AM
What are the Primordial Demons of Origin that you mentioned among the three strongest Type Moon characters?
Why were Servants not included in your list of the three strongest characters in Type Moon? Would the list be nothing but Servants or is a Servants prowess not constrained by things like rankings?

Seika
November 20th, 2012, 09:29 AM
Why were Servants not included in your list of the three strongest characters in Type Moon? Would the list be nothing but Servants or is a Servants prowess not constrained by things like rankings?

Oh terra ...

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 09:30 AM
It had to be asked, aren't you curious why they were specifically excluded?

giorno
November 20th, 2012, 09:51 AM
What are the Primordial Demons of Origin that you mentioned among the three strongest Type Moon characters?
Why were Servants not included in your list of the three strongest characters in Type Moon? Would the list be nothing but Servants or is a Servants prowess not constrained by things like rankings?


Why weren't ORT and PM mentioned either? or any of the DAA for that matter?

ChiakiKakumei
November 20th, 2012, 09:54 AM
I forgot what all my questions were but some were unanswered.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Why weren't ORT and PM mentioned either? or any of the DAA for that matter?

Because presumably they haven't shown up yet.

When Saber defeated Gilgamesh in Fate was she still inside Avalon when she used Excalibur or does she have to leave its protection to attack?

You
November 20th, 2012, 11:33 AM
What rank is Caliburn as a Noble Phantasm? Due to its degradation as a projected weapon, how was it able to bypass God Hand and kill Herc 7 times?
With that being said would a B+ Noble Phantasm break through God Hand?

Shu
November 20th, 2012, 11:38 AM
Adding to You's question

It was mentioned that Saber's attachment to Caliburn is stronger than her attachment to Excalibur, would it be a stronger phantasm than Excalibur if she were to somehow be summoned with it? Did her attachment to Caliburn play a role in bypassing Zerker's God Hand?

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 11:49 AM
^
We've already been told Excalibur is her strongest Noble Phantasm. B+ still counts as B and is therefore not above B.

What effects does the Divinity skill have other then those listed in Fate/Extra and making the Servant vulnerable to Enkidu?
What magecraft, if any is practiced in North America, South America, Africa, and Australia?
Are there any other half breeds common elsewhere in the world similar to Oni-human families in Japan?
How strong are the 30 Enforcers of the Clock Tower relative to the Executioners of the Church? How strong are they relative to the Burial Agency?

Might be a good idea to have a list of Japanese names handy so in the case of terms like Dead Apostles we don't confuse whoever is translating these back into Japanese.

I3uster
November 20th, 2012, 11:56 AM
This reads like an Umineko speculation thread.

Neir
November 20th, 2012, 11:56 AM
Where did Seiba REALLY learn to give head?

Spinach
November 20th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Adding to You's question

It was mentioned that Saber's attachment to Caliburn is stronger than her attachment to Excalibur, would it be a stronger phantasm than Excalibur if she were to somehow be summoned with it? Did her attachment to Caliburn play a role in bypassing Zerker's God Hand?


Are you a Bahamut Zero sockpuppet

aldeayeah
November 20th, 2012, 12:00 PM
oh god I remember that argument

wait, they banned mike?

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:03 PM
I might want to rephrase that last question so it's clear I'm talking about individual ability. Though the total power of each organization as a whole would be nice too.
If the demon hunter families pass on ESP to their children via karma, how did Azaka who comes from a completely normal family develop such a powerful ESP? Was it simply random?
How powerful were Divine Spirits during the Age of Gods in comparison to beings like Servants, vampires, Types, and so forth?
What is the maximum effect Gilgamesh can achieve with Enuma Enlish? Destroy the world, a continent, a country, just a single city?

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 12:05 PM
ESP is random mutation man, it's the pure eyes that get passed down based on karma since it's basically buddha-vision.

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 12:08 PM
Where did Seiba REALLY learn to give head?


I actually have a new theory on that. When saber said she knew how to please a man, what she really meant was she had been a man long enough to know that pleasing a man was just not that complicated!

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:08 PM
But then how do they breed for ESP like Fujino's? She doesn't have pure eyes. Or Kiri's (Tsukihime only because screw making sense).

Edit:
What other abilities if any does Natalia inherit from her Succubus ancestry other then receiving od from semen and her bodily fluids responding to blood. On the subject of gaining magic energy from semen, is it simply easier for her then most magi or does she get more then usual?

Tangerang
November 20th, 2012, 12:19 PM
Why elephants?

Actually, I could phrase that better

Elephant?

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:20 PM
Since Gilgamesh lived before the Tower of Babel, could he speak the Unified Language to any degree?

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 12:21 PM
Nasu: because drinkz

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 12:23 PM
But then how do they breed for ESP like Fujino's?

By rounding up ESPers and making them fuck and hoping that all the interbreeding somehow isolates the X-Gene. But random mutation out of the blue is still the norm for most ESP.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:25 PM
In Complete Material 3, it was mentioned that some Heroes thought to have existed (Heracles, Medusa) were purely fictional. Was this referring to their real world legendary status or does this also apply to the fictional world of Type-Moon as well, and if so how do they differ from Sasaki?

^
after I look it up I should probably ask what was all the "worshiped like gods, became like that they hunted" business with the Asagami clan was.

Is there any legitimacy to the claims that the Ryougi family interbreed with something transcendent, or was this a legend that sprang up because of their spilt personalities?

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 12:25 PM
What other abilities if any does Natalia inherit from her Succubus ancestry other then receiving od from semen and her bodily fluids responding to blood. On the subject of gaining magic energy from semen, is it simply easier for her then most magi or does she get more then usual?

Be sure to ask this one to Gen, because pretty much every time someone asked Nasu about Zero background stuff like Shirley or Natalia, he just brushed them off and said Gen made it all up so he doesn't know.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:33 PM
Lol

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 12:36 PM
after I look it up I should probably ask what was all the "worshiped like gods, became like that they hunted" business with the Asagami clan was.

I can't find a way to read that statement that doesn't lead back to Halfblood Sexy Time.

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 12:46 PM
Be sure to ask this one to Gen, because pretty much every time someone asked Nasu about Zero background stuff like Shirley or Natalia, he just brushed them off and said Gen made it all up so he doesn't know.


...Nasu pulled a lolzero?

...hehe.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:47 PM
I think his response is technically different then what you mean when you say "lolzero".

Neir
November 20th, 2012, 12:47 PM
I actually have a new theory on that. When saber said she knew how to please a man, what she really meant was she had been a man long enough to know that pleasing a man was just not that complicated!

My thought exactly. Doing just about anything to a penis will please a man.

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 12:50 PM
...Nasu pulled a lolzero?

...hehe.

He pulled a "I'll give my thoughts on them, but I don't really feel qualified to speak about their personalities or motivations or backstory details, and you should really ask Gen since he came up with those characters".

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 12:56 PM
Why did the Age of the Gods end? Was it a lack of faith even though places like India still have millions of believers in Hinduism, or was it some other factor?
Is the Judeo Christian God a Divine Spirit or something of that nature, or are all miracles simply a result of the magic foundation in Europe? Does Jesus qualify as a Heroic Spirit like Siddhartha, a demigod/full Divine Spirit, or is he just a normal person?

Seika
November 20th, 2012, 01:00 PM
Is the Judeo Christian God a Divine Spirit or something of that nature, or are all miracles simply a result of the magic foundation in Europe? Does Jesus qualify as a Heroic Spirit like Siddhartha, a demigod/full Divine Spirit, or is he just a normal person?


See Nasu's thoughts on answering these sorts of questions in CM3. Don't waste a question on a topic where he can just go 'religious fanatics will kill me if I answer this, so I'm not going to.'

aldeayeah
November 20th, 2012, 01:05 PM
Yeah, you have to make it sound harmless and videogamey

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2610/155743189161117921battl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/155743189161117921battl.jpg/)

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Okay fine:
Do all miracles performed by the Church come from the magic foundation laid down in Europe, and when was said foundation made?

You
November 20th, 2012, 01:07 PM
^
We've already been told Excalibur is her strongest Noble Phantasm. B+ still counts as B and is therefore not above B
Right, from the Lancer vs Berserker thing, but it's nice to get an explicit, THIS IS THIS NO QUESTIONS CAN BE ASKED.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 01:12 PM
Also from his explanations of rankings.

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 01:36 PM
Right, from the Lancer vs Berserker thing, but it's nice to get an explicit, THIS IS THIS NO QUESTIONS CAN BE ASKED.


This is Nasu. You don't get those often. Usually you get something that most rational people can accept but 20 odd percent of people will find fault with. Can shiki (tohno) kill servants is a pretty good example. Don't waste time trying to nail down exact details from someone who actively will squirm away from them if he wants to or does t want to lock himself down later.

You
November 20th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Also from his explanations of rankings.

Speaking of Rankings
Rankings for all the GOB originals from the Weapon's Screen, and a rank of Enkidu.
This is starting to sound like a christmas list.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 01:51 PM
That's basically what it is.

Because I might as well:
Canaan vs Kiritsugu
Canaan vs Kotomine
Canaan vs Shiki (either)

Break
November 20th, 2012, 02:12 PM
how about "can Shiki kill Angra mainyu"?

Neir
November 20th, 2012, 02:14 PM
How about:

Do you have any idea what synesthesia actually IS?

Cruor
November 20th, 2012, 02:15 PM
I remember back when Canaan first came out and we had a huge discussion on Kiritsugu vs Canaan along with Alphard vs Kiritsugu.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 02:16 PM
^^
Canaan has special synesthesia anyway so that wouldn't matter much.

Kanata vs Arcueid/Servants/27 Dead Guy Guards/ect

Is the universe Kanata destroyed equivalent in scope to the standard universe?

Not sure how to phrase that second one.

Arashi_Leonhart
November 20th, 2012, 04:53 PM
If a tree falls down in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, is it now in the same place as DDD?

Since Sion was featured in Under Night In-Birth, when will Saber appear in Marvel vs. Capcom?

Why is there no Tsukihime anime?

Hen_Ichi
November 20th, 2012, 04:58 PM
What is your whole total honest uncensored opinion on your fans outside Japan?

eddyak
November 20th, 2012, 05:02 PM
I'll just type or copy and paste her name in kanji if I actually ask the question myself.

How was Shirou able to kill Berserker with Nine Lives Blade Works? Did the attacks kill him faster then he could develop an immunity to it or did he lose God Hand when his skin rotted off? did Angra Mainyu's curse overpower the curse of God Hand?
Fixt.


Since Sion was featured in Under Night In-Birth, when will Saber appear in Marvel vs. Capcom?

Why did Sion feature in a game that sounds like some twisted doujin fetish?

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 05:04 PM
Because French Bread made both Melty Blood and Under Night In-Birth and they asked Notes Ltd. nicely.

Edit: on a side note, wasn't one of the other theories for why he may no longer have God Hand was because he took an Excalibur to the face?

Spinach
November 20th, 2012, 05:12 PM
Why did Sion feature in a game that sounds like some twisted doujin fetish?

Because HEEERMEEEES


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=A3UvM3xKZUY

I3uster
November 20th, 2012, 06:08 PM
HEEERMEEEEEES

What is your whole total honest uncensored opinion on your fans outside Japan?

"They don't give me any money. *laughs*"

You
November 20th, 2012, 06:09 PM
Have you set up a date for your wedding with Takeuchi?

Cruor
November 20th, 2012, 06:10 PM
^^
Canaan has special synesthesia anyway so that wouldn't matter much.

Kanata vs Arcueid/Servants/27 Dead Guy Guards/ect

Is the universe Kanata destroyed equivalent in scope to the standard universe?

Not sure how to phrase that second one.




Ookumaneko Mokumoku
Ward D patient. “Galaxy’s strongest NEET”. 30 years old fatso, his corporal condition is enough to be called a Snowman. Origa veteran. Although beaten by Kanata, she praised him as an ultra-powerful enemy! Super invincible! Ruzeru described him as: “A man who locked himself into his personal space, which could be called another spacial dimension.” Held a phone convo with Yashikido Kyouma once. Wished to distance himself from the world. Doesn’t consider himself a God despite creating a universe. Flies through the universe on tatami mats.Crown is a G. He made a page 10x better then my wiki page.

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 06:12 PM
Is the universe Kanata destroyed equivalent in scope to the standard universe?


Nasu: "Hahaha, who? Next question!"

food
November 20th, 2012, 06:13 PM
We need Nasu to update the "Nasuverse's Top Three Strongest Individuals List" again, and without excluding any works.

TypeWannabe
November 20th, 2012, 06:20 PM
1. Heracles / Gilgamesh / Karna / Archetype Earth
2. Saber
3. Arcuied

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 06:25 PM
1. Taiga/neko arc
2. Heracles / Gilgamesh / Karna / Archetype Earth
3. Saber
4. Arcuied


fixd

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 06:28 PM
Neco Arc can't be above Heracles, it only has nine lives.

celsius
November 20th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Of course, Nasu could just choose to dodge the questions he doesn't want to answer by not answering them, rendering all your efforts for naught.

Dartz
November 20th, 2012, 09:23 PM
1. Heracles / Gilgamesh / Karna / Archetype Earth
2. Saber
3. Arcuied

There is nothing that puts Saber above Arc and Gil and Herc on the same level as AE. But really, Servants most likely won't even be in the list if Nasu considers the Types.

celsius
November 20th, 2012, 09:24 PM
Yes, yes, you love Arcueid and she's the patron deity of your religion, we get it.

Dartz
November 20th, 2012, 09:32 PM
Appeal to Motive? What I said is based in what is shown in the games and Nasu's comments.

TypeWannabe
November 20th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Yeah, Dartz is right. If we do include all his works, it'll probably be

1. Types
2. 100 A-Rays/Knight Liners/Heracles
3. DAA/Servants

IhaxlikeNoob
November 20th, 2012, 09:33 PM
Appeal to Motive? What I said is based in what is shown in the games and Nasu's comments.
I'm pretty sure they all know that Dartz, just let them have their fun.

eddyak
November 20th, 2012, 09:40 PM
There is nothing that puts Saber above Arc and Gil and Herc on the same level as AE. But really, Servants most likely won't even be in the list if Nasu considers the Types.
And planet-crunching AE is above universe-bending, reality-warping Ryougi on powerlevels scale.

There was that thing about how both Arc and Ryougi agreed that Saber's power was more beneficial in the short term than either of theirs, though.

celsius
November 20th, 2012, 09:42 PM
It's not like I think Saber can beat Arcueid either, but I do find it almost impressive how you're practically able to home in on any debate that even remotely involves Arcueid and go about defending her Nasuverse Championship belt.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 09:52 PM
Kanata destroys actual universes with a punch, seemingly can't die to anything, somehow weaker then any of the top three. Nasu powerlevels make no sense.

Dartz
November 20th, 2012, 10:00 PM
And planet-crunching AE is above universe-bending, reality-warping Ryougi on powerlevels scale.

There was that thing about how both Arc and Ryougi agreed that Saber's power was more beneficial in the short term than either of theirs, though.

We don't know the restrictions of Third Ryougi's abilities, she seems to have some. While AE has none, she lacks all the restrictions that give her normal state exploitable weaknesses. Granted what you said about Saber though, but that's more the fact that Saber doesn't have any restrictions (and Arc is strong despite that), was it stated that made her stronger? can't remember.


It's not like I think Saber can beat Arcueid either, but I do find it almost impressive how you're practically able to home in on any debate that even remotely involves Arcueid and go about defending her Nasuverse Championship belt.

I only correct those claims, because otherwise no one will. The vast majority of 'inconsistencies' in Nasuverse were actually due to incorrect fan interpretation. And yeah, my knowledge of the Nasuverse is mostly limited to Tsukihime/Melty Blood, Notes, so I can only discuss those works with certainty that what I'm claiming is right (or mostly right if I'm speculating).

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 10:02 PM
^
Yes, it was stated to make her stronger, by Arc herself. As for the restriction part, that still doesn't change Shiki destroys the World each time she would use her power, that's just the default setting for her ability.

Mcjon01
November 20th, 2012, 10:10 PM
All the girls were calling the other two the strongest, because they are all shy, modest waifus.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 10:12 PM
All of them so classy.

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 10:13 PM
Thats not why. They all just know that being the toughest in the setting means you are going to get smacked down by Nasu in one of his zany affinity > Power level moods and were trying to shift the heat off themselves.

Cruor
November 20th, 2012, 10:33 PM
Kanata destroys actual universes with a punch, seemingly can't die to anything, somehow weaker then any of the top three. Nasu powerlevels make no sense.

Yeah, for some reason Nasu thinks

Planets > multiversal level destruction > universal destruction

Because apparently planets have things to get around that shit (plot power). All planets can apparently go shonen MC and beat Ajimu according to Nasu. Go figure.

food
November 20th, 2012, 10:48 PM
There is nothing that puts Saber above Arc and Gil and Herc on the same level as AE. But really, Servants most likely won't even be in the list if Nasu considers the Types.

AE embodies the World more than Arc.

Dies faster than Arc to Enuma Elish.

As per affinity/compatibility rule.

You should know logical deduction means nothing when it comes to power levels, because said deductions are based on one Japanese dude's whim.

- - - Updated - - -



I only correct those claims, because otherwise no one will. The vast majority of 'inconsistencies' in Nasuverse were actually due to incorrect fan interpretation. And yeah, my knowledge of the Nasuverse is mostly limited to Tsukihime/Melty Blood, Notes, so I can only discuss those works with certainty that what I'm claiming is right (or mostly right if I'm speculating).

Except the stuff about your waifu is blatantly inconsistent. And your way of finding a "correct interpretation" consists of ignoring what you consider as "incorrect canon".

Dartz
November 20th, 2012, 10:52 PM
That's assuming AE would even stand there doing nothing. And really, if Nasu hasn't said Servants can fight on par with Types, is it safe to assume it's true despite them having shown nothing on a Type's level? That makes no sense.


Except the stuff about your waifu is blatantly inconsistent. And your way of finding a "correct interpretation" consists of ignoring what you consider as "incorrect canon".

You mean the stuff about her personality? I don't even ignore it, I simply try to make the more vague statements fit with the other more explicit statements by intepreting them in a way they are consistent with one another, rather than claiming it being incosistent is a better explanation.

food
November 20th, 2012, 10:55 PM
That's assuming AE would even stand there doing nothing. And really, if Nasu hasn't said Servants can fight on par with Types, is it safe to assume it's true despite them having shown nothing on a Type's level? That makes no sense.
Even Arc dies to Gae Bolg. "On X level" means nothing. Compatibility is the name of the game.


You mean the stuff about her personality? I don't even ignore it, I simply try to make the more vague statements fit with the other more explicit statements by intepreting them in a way they are consistent with one another, rather than claiming it being incosistent is a better explanation.
Except you are making contradictory statements/scenarios "vague" to fit your own theory.

Dartz
November 20th, 2012, 10:58 PM
Even Arc dies to Gae Bolg. "On X level" means nothing. Compatibility is the name of the game.

And reaction time/speed isn't taken into account when talking about compatibility?


Except you are making contradictory statements/scenarios "vague" to fit your own theory.

If they aren't explicit statements and can be interpreted in more than one way, they are only contradictory if you want them to be.

food
November 20th, 2012, 11:14 PM
And reaction time/speed isn't taken into account when talking about compatibility?
Nope. In your mind's eye, Crimson Moon/Arc/AE is like ZOMG light speed.
But remember, Crimson Moon is the dunce who fought head-to-head and got pwn'd by a human, who is like, slug speed in Nasuverse standards. And AE is said to have the personality of said dunce.
Wanking your waifu speed is a moot point.



If they aren't explicit statements and can be interpreted in more than one way, they are only contradictory if you want them to be.
You are the only one around that is interpreting it that way, and interpreting it that way fits your own theory. Coincidence?

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 11:21 PM
Or chopper 4!?

Dartz
November 20th, 2012, 11:28 PM
Nope. In your mind's eye, Crimson Moon/Arc/AE is like ZOMG light speed.
But remember, Crimson Moon is the dunce who fought head-to-head and got pwn'd by a human, who is like, slug speed in Nasuverse standards. And AE is said to have the personality of said dunce.
Wanking your waifu speed is a moot point.

We don't even know how fast the original Crimson Moon was, or how fast Zelretch was. And it's kinda silly to suggest a being with the stats of around 6.7 Servants isn't considerably faster than a single Servant.


You are the only one around that is interpreting it that way, and interpreting it that way fits your own theory. Coincidence?

And you're the only one I've seen that interprets it in that way. I didn't interpret it in a way that fits my theory, I interpreted it in a way that's not contradictory with other explicit statements. Your interpretation of those statements was contradictory to the explicit statements that require no interpretations, yet you somehow kept claiming my theory was no better than yours. Anyway, I'm done arguing with you.

food
November 20th, 2012, 11:32 PM
We don't even know how fast the original Crimson Moon was, or how fast Zelretch was. And it's kinda silly to suggest a being with the stats of around 6.7 Servants isn't considerably faster than a single Servant.

Young Zelretch faster than 7 Servants. You heard it here first, boys.


And you're the only one I've seen that interprets it in that way. I didn't interpret it in a way that fits my theory, I interpreted it in a way that's not contradictory with other explicit statements. Your interpretation of those statements was contradictory to the explicit statements that require no interpretations.

Nope. The rune readers around these parts all concluded "lol fuck Nasu's flip-flop about Arc". I am the only one who bothers with you because I swore to slay all waifu-worshipers.

terraablaze
November 20th, 2012, 11:42 PM
food, why you no slay me yet? Do you not love me?

Edit: How powerful is a True Ancestor that was born before Arc?
Does Gilgamesh normally have Sha Nagba Imuru and what does it do? Is it what allows Gilgamesh to accurately judge his opponent?

Tobias
November 20th, 2012, 11:44 PM
out of shear curiosity, which flip flop is this now?

celsius
November 21st, 2012, 12:06 AM
Man, who even cares about how strong Arcueid is? The remake's probably gonna completely flip it all on its head anyway.

Tobias
November 21st, 2012, 12:08 AM
Man, who even cares about how strong Arcueid is? The remake's probably gonna completely flip it all on its head anyway.

so, you are saying her power level will never change?

IhaxlikeNoob
November 21st, 2012, 12:11 AM
so, you are saying her power level will never change?

I think he's saying Arc is going to become the weakest.

- - - Updated - - -

Somehow.

Tobias
November 21st, 2012, 12:14 AM
whoosh?

Mcjon01
November 21st, 2012, 12:15 AM
I think he's saying Arc is going to become the weakest.

- - - Updated - - -

Somehow.

The world adjusts her power level to always be just below the enemy's, and then she wins anyway because that's way more Shounen and the world eats that shit up.

IhaxlikeNoob
November 21st, 2012, 12:17 AM
Undergdog Arc? That's a new one.

ItsaRandomUsername
November 21st, 2012, 12:39 AM
Geez Terra its like you're raiding the Questions and Badass Versus threads for everything that's ever been asked.

Milbunk
November 21st, 2012, 01:27 AM
Oh fancy red text, lemme try:

Who would win in a fight, Caster or Zelretch in his prime.

Cruor
November 21st, 2012, 01:28 AM
Quadruple Tsubamae Gaeshi Excaliblast with downloaded knowledge of all of Caster's spells along with downloading all the knowledge of how to beat her is pretty OP.

Milbunk
November 21st, 2012, 01:31 AM
Hey Caster's no slouch either.

mAc Chaos
November 21st, 2012, 01:40 AM
What about all those "DID SAKURA REALLY WANT TO DO ALL THAT EVIL STUFF OR DID AM INFLUENCE HER" type questions we always go over. And there's a ton of others I can't think of off the top of my head.

Maybe ask what some stuff like Divinity is supposed to do.

Arashi_Leonhart
November 21st, 2012, 04:25 AM
What do you think of all these fans that can't help but try and waifu wank every chance they get?

Nasu: So silly. I--

Takeuchi: Nasuuuuuu! I've drawn more Seibaa~

Nasu: --love them, of course!

aldeayeah
November 21st, 2012, 04:34 AM
Are low-ranking Dead Apostles empowered in any way by the full moon?
It seems that they are, although it's not clear to what extent. Prelude I: For a Dead Apostle, a night of a red moon is when they reach the height of their strength. Even the mediators of the Church who excels in vampire hunting don't dare to fight under the red moon

terraablaze
November 21st, 2012, 08:11 AM
Geez Terra its like you're raiding the Questions and Badass Versus threads for everything that's ever been asked.

I just have a lot of questions myself.

To what degree does blackening effect a person's behavior and how does this work Kotomine's comments about Sakura's personality being the same? How can Avenger influence someone's personality when he has to copy a personality wholesale in order to interact with people?

There has to be a better way to ask that question.

^
I'm sure they are, you should specify to what degree. Ask about Roa regenerating from his ankles but Lourve's progeny not being able to heal from being cut in half.

aldeayeah
November 21st, 2012, 08:39 AM
I totally forgot about that Prelude bit. Related question:

Do Dead Apostles that don't descend from True Ancestors, like Nrvnqsr Chaos, get any power from the moon?

Mcjon01
November 21st, 2012, 08:39 AM
Weren't Lourve and his kids all killed by Shiki? I don't think that counts.

terraablaze
November 21st, 2012, 08:44 AM
Before that, at the very beginning, Lorelei cuts one in half with a sword and because she was 100 years old and the Crimson Moon was shining she managed the strength to crawl away.

Edit: eh, I might be confusing portions, it's mentioned she was blown in half at a later point. Still, she definitely wasn't healing to full strength instantaneously like Roa and had to retreat.

Mcjon01
November 21st, 2012, 08:59 AM
Lorelei whipped the girl Louvre half to re-death, but got distracted by powerlevels and let her escape.
Enhance blew the boy Louvre in half, but then Lorelei shows up and they end up letting that one escape too.

Then next we hear of them, all the Louvres are cut to pieces in the tower. Excepting the one in France, of course. Wiseass.

Tiresias
November 21st, 2012, 09:02 AM
Will Nasu even answer Tsuki 2 related questions at all?

Mcjon01
November 21st, 2012, 09:03 AM
Probably with some form of "It's all nonsense!", yes. But hey, if he doesn't want people to ask about it, maybe he should stop bringing it up in interviews every ten years just to make sure nobody's forgotten about it.

Tiresias
November 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM
It's like ecchi mangas. He'll flash naughty bits but never show the really good stuff.

Hen_Ichi
November 21st, 2012, 02:20 PM
What is your relationship with Kajiura Yuki-san?

How do you suppress any and all photos of your true appearance from surfacing?

What is the fate of Sakura after the Fate and Unlimited Bladeworks routes?

Seika
November 21st, 2012, 02:30 PM
What is the fate of Sakura after the Fate and Unlimited Bladeworks routes?

Ah, this is an interesting one. A shame, perhaps, that it only came up now, but a good question.

mAc Chaos
November 21st, 2012, 02:34 PM
Is the Q&A over or something. When is it.

IhaxlikeNoob
November 21st, 2012, 02:37 PM
Ah, this is an interesting one. A shame, perhaps, that it only came up now, but a good question.

Really? No one ever asked that?

Seika
November 21st, 2012, 02:45 PM
Is the Q&A over or something. When is it.
No, I was referring to the passing of Mike. What happened to Sakura after Fate/UBW was one of the favoured points of contention with him: he would say that, not having saved her in those routes, Shirō could never properly be called a hero, and Rin was a failure of a sister.


Really? No one ever asked that?

It's certainly not ever been answered, AFAIK.

mAc Chaos
November 21st, 2012, 02:55 PM
No, I was referring to the passing of Mike.
Wait. I know I've been out of the loop lately but...

IhaxlikeNoob
November 21st, 2012, 03:03 PM
Wait. I know I've been out of the loop lately but...

From what I know Mike is banned, I don't know if it's temp or perma though.

Hen_Ichi
November 21st, 2012, 04:30 PM
Yeah ^

If he is truly gone, will we ever truly derail uncontrollably into an endless recursion of Sakura again?
Or will there only be short reminders, an odd tradition in memory of those long gone...

If he stays true to his ideals to the end, will he go to Avalon too?

Asdfghl
November 21st, 2012, 04:43 PM
I think that Sakura Derails have become a tradition. I'm sure they'll continue.

Laith
November 21st, 2012, 04:47 PM
Yes but who will inherit his ideal?

TypeWannabe
November 21st, 2012, 04:49 PM
Sigh

mAc Chaos
November 21st, 2012, 05:01 PM
It's happening already.

food
November 21st, 2012, 05:15 PM
From what I know Mike is banned, I don't know if it's temp or perma though.

We should have a trial of banning him for a month, and see if BL becomes noticeably better.

terraablaze
November 21st, 2012, 05:18 PM
I doubt posters like us who don't visit the fanfic section regularly will notice all that much.

mAc Chaos
November 21st, 2012, 05:19 PM
I visit it, but I didn't see anything. And it's not like Mike derails there are anything new either.

Hen_Ichi
November 21st, 2012, 05:19 PM
I think that Sakura Derails have become a tradition. I'm sure they'll continue.
Yeah, but I don't think anyone else with such a high Battle Continuation rating cares enough about Sakura to sustain derails and endless recursions.

food
November 21st, 2012, 05:19 PM
I doubt posters like us who don't visit the fanfic section regularly will notice all that much.

But his rage posts keeps showing up on my new posts list.

I3uster
November 21st, 2012, 05:26 PM
From what I know Mike is banned, I don't know if it's temp or perma though.

Perma.


I think that Sakura Derails have become a tradition. I'm sure they'll continue.

Hopefully not, with people being able to discuss her like an actual character now she might be able to get some more fans on BL...who am I kidding :V

Anyways, wasn't this about Nasu questions at one time or something...

Why would the association want to kill Sakura if she wasn't given to the Matous?

mAc Chaos
November 21st, 2012, 05:28 PM
I thought that one was obvious. Anyone with a freakish talent for something is gonna get scooped up for examination and what not. I dunno if they ever would want to kill her though.

I3uster
November 21st, 2012, 05:30 PM
I thought it was too but I got in like 10 arguments about this thing.

ChronoReverse
November 21st, 2012, 05:35 PM
I thought it's just the sealing designation that's likely? Plus dissection maybe? Either is a horrible fate.

IhaxlikeNoob
November 21st, 2012, 05:36 PM
Isn't it that the Association want to dissect Sakura the reason she's going to get killed?

Edit: Sniped.

Satehi
November 21st, 2012, 05:41 PM
I thought it was too but I got in like 10 arguments about this thing.

But all 10 of them were with Mike :V

I3uster
November 21st, 2012, 05:49 PM
No, also with Altima :V

terraablaze
November 22nd, 2012, 03:28 PM
Since you plan to do nothing else with Fate/Prototype, can you tell us what Ayaka's formalcraft was going to be like and why it was so useful? Also, was The Beast functionally the same as Avenger or were his abilities different? Who were the 6 other Servants that Manaka had contracted? Was Saver from Fate/Extra one of them?

celsius
November 22nd, 2012, 03:30 PM
Why would Vairocana have anything to do with this?

terraablaze
November 22nd, 2012, 03:32 PM
Apparently at some point he was planned as a secret end boss in an earlier incarnation of Fate, but whether this was the one he wrote in highschool that Fate/Prototype was based on or some earlier draft when they were converting it to an eroge is unknown.

Could you tell us the Noble Phantasm ranks of all the Noble Phantasms in Fate/Extra? Also, how exactly does Saber's (Extra) Noble Phantasm work and what does it really do if it were to show up outside of a game?


Not sure if that had been asked yet, know I saw one for Gilgamesh's proto Noble Phantasms.

celsius
November 22nd, 2012, 03:34 PM
Huh.

Neat!

You
November 22nd, 2012, 08:48 PM
What does a minus mean, and what does it do?

Tohsaka is said to have sub-circuits, what is a sub-circuit, and what does it do?

When an A rank Noble Phantasm is used as a Broken Phantasm, what rank is it? Is it's damage equal to a C+ Noble Phantasm or can it no be calculated.

What does Armor Class do? How is it calculated?

Enuma Elish can be blocked by Elimination Rank Armor Class, is Elimination Rank the proper name for EX?

Please supply a table or some numerical information about the Magic Circuit quantity, and quality ranks in Prototype and Mahoyo. What ranks would Tohsaka and Sakura have? Shirou? Alba? Kayneth? Sola? Kariya? (Insert random magus here)

Can a "Rank-Up," almost be considered a term that supplies Modifiers? Eg. When Lancelot takes out Arondight does his Strength get a modifier and become A+? or does it go up to EX?

Can a Magus have two or more sorcery traits, or is that limited?

Do Mystic Codes also contact a magical foundation, or is the magical formula inside the Mystic Code?

Does the Bermuda Triangle lead to the "Backside of the World?"

Does one need a composite origin to have two elements? If so what is Kayneth's composite origin? Is it then possible to have a origin consisting of three parts, and thereby having three elements?

terraablaze
November 22nd, 2012, 08:49 PM
That one in the middle about Magic Circuit quantities has already been listed.

You
November 22nd, 2012, 09:06 PM
That one in the middle about Magic Circuit quantities has already been listed.
Really?
How many circuits is C rank?

Welp, the quality still hasn't been revealed has it?

terraablaze
November 22nd, 2012, 09:52 PM
No I meant as a question. If we find out the rank for Rin/Sakura/or Ciel we'll have a basic idea how much the letter grade stands for. (actually don't we technically already know that because Touko has 20?)

You
November 22nd, 2012, 10:28 PM
But we don't know how much her wings factor into that quantity, whether they're just the + or they give her a little boost in the letter as well.

terraablaze
November 22nd, 2012, 10:40 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about dude. Last time I checked Touko was a normal human unless she's been really good at hiding her angel/harpie nature.

You
November 22nd, 2012, 11:00 PM
She's an angel. Why else was Alba the next head of Sponheim Abbey so into her? He wanted to make her the mascot of the Abbey, nail her to the front doors so worshipers could see how great his Abbey was, and make money like that.

terraablaze
November 22nd, 2012, 11:18 PM
Someone put that on the Type Moon wiki, the public must be informed.

Seika
November 23rd, 2012, 06:12 AM
Can a Magus have two or more sorcery traits, or is that limited?
Ilya at least demonstrates both of her theoretical traits: Wishcraft and Transference. Whether she's hard-casting the transference without that trait could be argued, but I think you can probably have multiple ones if you end up in extraordinary circumstances like hers.


Does one need a composite origin to have two elements? If so what is Kayneth's composite origin? Is it then possible to have a origin consisting of three parts, and thereby having three elements?
Rin has five elements and none of them fit her Origin.

aldeayeah
November 23rd, 2012, 06:34 AM
What rank would Rin and Ciel's magical energy be, if we quantified it the same way we do with Servants?

You
November 23rd, 2012, 06:15 PM
Ilya at least demonstrates both of her theoretical traits: Wishcraft and Transference. Whether she's hard-casting the transference without that trait could be argued, but I think you can probably have multiple ones if you end up in extraordinary circumstances like hers.


Rin has five elements and none of them fit her Origin.
But Rin's origin is an imaginary element, that seems to be an exception like Teena's I have 4 elements because I'm a Native Murican.


Well if you think about the sorcery trait thing, you could say that Sakura had Imaginary Numbers as a trait as well as Conversion. But Transference of Consciousness is just magecraft, how is it a sorcery trait?

Seika
November 23rd, 2012, 06:28 PM
But Rin's origin is an imaginary element, that seems to be an exception like Teena's I have 4 elements because I'm a Native Murican.
That makes no sense. The imaginary elements are obviously potential elements, since Sakura has Imaginary Numbers. And yet Rin has all the 'real' elements and not whatever her Origin is. Therefore you cannot be absolutely restricted by your Origin to certain alignments, or Rin wouldn't be able to be an Average One. Also, strange fake isn't canon by any stretch of the imagination.


Well if you think about the sorcery trait thing, you could say that Sakura had Imaginary Numbers as a trait as well as Conversion. But Transference of Consciousness is just magecraft, how is it a sorcery trait?

You're mixing things up here. Elements and traits are separate: Sakura has Water as an element and fragments of Imaginary Numbers left over; her trait is the Matō one of 'absorption'.

Ilya's element is unknown but, in terms of her trait, Grail containers are supposed to get Wishcraft (see her throwing a pure mass of prana at Gil), and she demonstrates a spell requiring 'transference', which is the default Einzbern trait. And CM3 is reasonably explicit about Ilya being skilled with that trait too.

You
November 23rd, 2012, 08:59 PM
That makes no sense. The imaginary elements are obviously potential elements, since Sakura has Imaginary Numbers. And yet Rin has all the 'real' elements and not whatever her Origin is. Therefore you cannot be absolutely restricted by your Origin to certain alignments, or Rin wouldn't be able to be an Average One. Also, strange fake isn't canon by any stretch of the imagination.
That's why I'm asking it right?
I guess a better phrasing would be.
Rin's origin is apparently an Imaginary Element, what is said Imaginary Element and how, if it does at all, impact her being an Average One? Furthermore a magus like Kiritsugu has a composite origin and that translates into him having dual elements. Is it possible for a magus that doesn't have a composite origin to naturally have more than one element.


You're mixing things up here. Elements and traits are separate: Sakura has Water as an element and fragments of Imaginary Numbers left over; her trait is the Matō one of 'absorption'.

Ilya's element is unknown but, in terms of her trait, Grail containers are supposed to get Wishcraft (see her throwing a pure mass of prana at Gil), and she demonstrates a spell requiring 'transference', which is the default Einzbern trait. And CM3 is reasonably explicit about Ilya being skilled with that trait too.

That's Attribute.

Stuff under magic attributes with respect to Einzbern
Flow/transfer of power
Magic attribute that Einzbern magi are skilled in. They are specialized at the transmutation and creation of materials, that is, alchemy, using this attribute, and are highly skilled in the production of homunculi. Ilya often uses magic, using the attribute of transferring, to move the consciousness of others to something else.


Great magic families
Family name or Representative/attribute/explanation
Tohsaka/Conversion/nothing new
Makiri/Absorption/nothing new
Einzbern/Flow and transfer of power/nothing new
Edelfelt/Conversion/Family from Finland. Like Tohsaka, prefer jewels magic, which uses the attribute of conversion
Barthomeloi/Almighty/Old line even in the Magic Association. One of the families of the rulers, the Lords. Embodiments of perfectionism and aristrocracy
Milyonecalion/Prosperity/One of the top magi in the magic world, known also by the name "Giver of All Sealing Designations" (or other way around?). Details are unknown.
Jewel Killer/Halting/One of the remarkable magi in history, affiliated with the Sea of Estray, the mysterious prototype of the Magic Association
Hermes Silis Atlasia/Future/Magus from one of the divisions of the Magic Association, the Atlas Institute, the association for the magi and alchemists of Egypt

I just find it shifty that sorcery trait and attribute can be considered the same thing.
Isn't a sorcery trait supposed to be a super thing in your family?
If an attribute can be considered a sorcery trait, then the Barthomeloi's sorcery traits are their Blue Blood Circuits, their Almighty attribute, and possibly their Mystic Eyes? That doesn't make sense at all.

As for the Sakura thing, all I can say is... welp, it was in Fuyuki, it doesn't make it right, but it was in Fuyuki.

Seika
November 23rd, 2012, 09:10 PM
That's why I'm asking it right?
I guess a better phrasing would be.
Rin's origin is apparently an Imaginary Element, what is said Imaginary Element and how, if it does at all, impact her being an Average One? Furthermore a magus like Kiritsugu has a composite origin and that translates into him having dual elements. Is it possible for a magus that doesn't have a composite origin to naturally have more than one element.
I still think you're putting way too much focus on the difference between imaginary elements and real ones. I find it very difficult to believe that, if elements were an unbreachable limit, they'd somehow be exempt.


That's Attribute.
I just find it shifty that sorcery trait and attribute can be considered the same thing.
Isn't a sorcery trait supposed to be a super thing in your family?
Yeah, they're the same thing. Each family focuses on developing a certain attribute, which is then associated with them. Multiple families can focus on the same one, and an individual mage will branch out from their family attribute (at least partly because there's probably already tonnes of it in their crest, so they don't need to care about it so much).

You
November 23rd, 2012, 09:30 PM
Then why is the Edelfelt sorcery trait their Ore Scale and not their Conversion even if Conversion is their Attribute?

Seika
November 23rd, 2012, 10:16 PM
As for the Sakura thing, all I can say is... welp, it was in Fuyuki, it doesn't make it right, but it was in Fuyuki.

Ach, missed this, which would have cleared things up. No, you're right, we were talking about different things, it's not the same thing being translated separately. I still think that Imaginary Numbers as a trait is wrong, though I'd have to know where that idea came from. CM3 seems pretty definitive on the subject of it being the name for her element.

And your phrasing was still wrong, if not in the way I thought. Conversion is still an attribute, neither alignment nor trait, so it shouldn't be in the same category as Imaginary Numbers.

You
November 24th, 2012, 12:55 AM
Why do Tamamo's spells work against Gawain, when he has B rank MR?

Five_X
November 24th, 2012, 01:59 AM
Why do Tamamo's spells work against Gawain, when he has B rank MR?

Because they're just that powerful, and his magic resistance isn't that impressive. Especially if Tamamo has EX MGI by that point, which she should.

food
November 24th, 2012, 08:18 AM
Why do Tamamo's spells work against Gawain, when he has B rank MR?
Gaijin MR cannot resist Yamato magic.

Mcjon01
November 24th, 2012, 08:21 AM
Is that why so many of America's devoted and honorable Wizards find themselves irresistibly drawn to Yamato women?

You
November 24th, 2012, 02:06 PM
Because they're just that powerful, and his magic resistance isn't that impressive. Especially if Tamamo has EX MGI by that point, which she should.

Even with EX MGI her spells are just one or two-liners, B rank MR let's you nullify up to tres.


Gaijin MR cannot resist Yamato magic.
Most likely.

terraablaze
November 24th, 2012, 02:46 PM
If that's the way it really worked, Medea's spells would be absolutely worthless. I'm pretty sure the talk about lines is standard modern day western magecraft casting time standards.

Tobias
November 24th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Is that why so many of America's devoted and honorable Wizards find themselves irresistibly drawn to Yamato women?


no. that is because they are American, and the women are Japanese.

I3uster
November 24th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Why do Tamamo's spells work against Gawain, when he has B rank MR?

Gameplay

alternatively

lolextra

Five_X
November 24th, 2012, 03:06 PM
If that's the way it really worked, Medea's spells would be absolutely worthless. I'm pretty sure the talk about lines is standard modern day western magecraft casting time standards.

This, basically. Face it, haters, fox waifu is just an awesome Caster, totes defeats everyone and stuff.

I3uster
November 24th, 2012, 03:09 PM
But Medea's spells are all 10-count or Greater Rituals, it's just that she has HSDW. Fox waifu doesn't have that, though her Witchcraft EX might accomplish that.

Tobias
November 24th, 2012, 03:20 PM
Maybe MR doesn't hold much water against magecraft used by a god?

/random guess

terraablaze
November 24th, 2012, 03:30 PM
But Medea's spells are all 10-count or Greater Rituals, it's just that she has HSDW. Fox waifu doesn't have that, though her Witchcraft EX might accomplish that.

Pretty much my point. Alba drops 10 count spells in 1 or 2 seconds for reasons never explained and their are other ways to cast spells that are technically longer then they really are. Rin's jewels are another example. You can't judge a spell only from how long it takes to say it.

I3uster
November 24th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Maybe MR doesn't hold much water against magecraft used by a god?

/random guess

Magecraft used by a god is still magecraft, not to mention that her spells seem to be pretty conventional magecraft she gets from being Tamamo the diviner/courtesan, not channeling Amaterasu.

You
November 24th, 2012, 03:44 PM
Pretty much my point. Alba drops 10 count spells in 1 or 2 seconds for reasons never explained and their are other ways to cast spells that are technically longer then they really are. Rin's jewels are another example. You can't judge a spell only from how long it takes to say it.

Fox waifu tags now confirmed to be as good as Rin jewels. The worshippers be ecstatic.

Cruor
November 24th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Well, Demons are mention to naturally have access to more OP (like Greater Grail level thaumaturgy naturally, which is like, Magic) then any Thaumaturgy humans can achieve Gods might have something similar.

I3uster
November 24th, 2012, 03:49 PM
They probably are, I mean those blasts are pretty huge, and while they aren't Medea level because Casko is younger, they still should have quite a boom. But even Rin should have massive troubles damaging something with B-MR.

IIRC Casko even highlights the whole "Casters suck because MR" thing in one of her dialogues in the 1st or 2nd week, though I don't think she mentions MR by name. But we all know that MR is what makes Casters the weakest so yeah. Probably gameplay mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, Demons are mention to naturally have access to more OP then any Thaumaturgy humans can achieve Gods might have something similar.

You sure that doesn't refer to modern-day thaumaturgy? Cuz AoG magecraft can reach true magic tier.

Cruor
November 24th, 2012, 03:57 PM
Nope. Its definitely True Demons have superduper OP Thaumaturgy. Their 'circuits' are is supposed to be Greater Grail tier. Blue Blood is for plebs. And call magi noobs for copying them (lol is Nasu implying that Demons also created Thaumaturgy?) and laughing at them for even having circuits.

So yeah, they have natural access to A Rank Thaumaturgy with enough energy that its in the same tier against the amount of energy puny Japan's second tier land can generate in 60 years with natural access to reality warping (reality marbles is a noob version of what they supposedly do).


Black Knight dude OP as fuck. Tsuki 2 should be about him stomping kids' faces in.

I3uster
November 24th, 2012, 04:10 PM
If I got that right, there are things that apparently cast True Magic-tier thaumaturgy by existing, and Strout took one of those and made it into a sword to bash peoples faces in?

What is this, Demonbane?

Cruor
November 24th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Yeah mang he's decked as fuck. It's like Nasu was reading Rance and went holy shit this guy is awesome when he saw Demon Red Eye.

Blastedspider
November 24th, 2012, 05:39 PM
But Medea's spells are all 10-count or Greater Rituals, it's just that she has HSDW. Fox waifu doesn't have that, though her Witchcraft EX might accomplish that.
I don't think it is the same thing as usual Witchcraft. It's supposed to be teachings of Dakini, i.e. not normal magecraft, but something from AoG.


Its definitely True Demons have superduper OP Thaumaturgy
True Demons like Oni, or True Demons like Sixth Imaginary Element?

terraablaze
November 24th, 2012, 05:46 PM
How does the offensive spells Caster uses in Fate/Extra compare to the other offensive spells we've seen?

There

^
Oni aren't any kind of demon at all dude.

Cruor
November 24th, 2012, 05:54 PM
The one they kept mentioning in ataraxia. So yeah anything from True Demons, Real Demons, and Possession. Most likely True Demons. But Possession is supposed to have similar abilities iirc.

Altima of the Gates
November 24th, 2012, 09:37 PM
I don't think it is the same thing as usual Witchcraft. It's supposed to be teachings of Dakini, i.e. not normal magecraft, but something from AoG.

So is it like the witchcraft/whatever Rider uses?

food
November 25th, 2012, 04:16 PM
I don't think it is the same thing as usual Witchcraft. It's supposed to be teachings of Dakini, i.e. not normal magecraft, but something from AoG.


Witchcraft from Age of Gods is still Witchcraft, just like Magecraft from Age of Gods is still Magecraft.

Doormat Fox's skills still inflict damage because players would moan if Doormat Fox only does negligible damage to Knight Classes.

Cruor
November 25th, 2012, 04:36 PM
Finally food got an avatar again.

Blastedspider
November 25th, 2012, 04:48 PM
Oni aren't any kind of demon at all dude.
Church calls them True Akuma to distinguish between them and Sixth Imaginary Element.


Witchcraft from Age of Gods is still Witchcraft, just like Magecraft from Age of Gods is still Magecraft.
As far as I remember, witchcraft is basically skills of stereotypical western fairy tale witch, i.e. potions, curses, broom flight etc. It works on the same principle as regular magecraft, while Tamamo's abilities are noted to be different from regular magecraft. I think that may be an explanation.

terraablaze
November 25th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Church calls them True Akuma to distinguish between them and Sixth Imaginary Element.

...what?
They're Phantasmal beasts. Akuma are specifically stated to not be a phantasmal race of any sort, they are their own thing.

food
November 25th, 2012, 04:53 PM
As far as I remember, witchcraft is basically skills of stereotypical western fairy tale witch, i.e. potions, curses, broom flight etc. It works on the same principle as regular magecraft, while Tamamo's abilities are noted to be different from regular magecraft. I think that may be an explanation.
Nope, it is a broad foundation that blankets Japanese shamanism to Middle Eastern curses to Western Witchcraft.

It is not the explanation.

Blastedspider
November 25th, 2012, 05:00 PM
Nope, it is a broad foundation that blankets Japanese shamanism to Middle Eastern curses to Western Witchcraft.

It is not the explanation.
It was noted that:


All of Caster’s shamanistic arts are physical phenomena using Caster’s own body. Normal magecraft is a program “reordering what is already there”, but shamanism is a program “that reorders using the practitioner’s body as the raw ingredients.”

Is what true for all practicioners of Witchcraft, or not?

food
November 25th, 2012, 05:05 PM
It was noted that:



Is what true for all practicioners of Witchcraft, or not?

Seems legit.

Although that is just a "generic Nasu philosophy" statement.

You can only wank what it actually means in terms of real mechanistic relevance.

Blastedspider
November 25th, 2012, 05:10 PM
Seems legit.
What do you mean?
They all do reorder themselves as she does?

Tobias
November 25th, 2012, 05:11 PM
I always figured she was using hairs from her tail as a catalyst to produce thatamurgy.

food
November 25th, 2012, 05:14 PM
What do you mean?
They all do reorder themselves as she does?

Ya, they shift their spleens 5cm up to shoot fire bolts.

That's how it works.

Blastedspider
November 25th, 2012, 05:15 PM
Ya, they shift their spleens 5cm up to shoot fire bolts.

That's how it works.

Are you serios or it is joke of some sort?

TypeWannabe
November 25th, 2012, 05:42 PM
It's a joke.

You
November 26th, 2012, 02:07 AM
What happens when two people actualize their reality marbles simultaneously? When someone deploys their reality marble while inside someone else's?

On average, how much od can an average magus (Ayaka) safely convert into usable prana in a day?

celsius
November 26th, 2012, 03:10 AM
I thought Ayaka was below average.

BlackField
November 26th, 2012, 04:19 AM
I thought Ayaka was below average.
I thought she wasn't a magus but used esp. Wait that was Azaka.

Mcjon01
November 26th, 2012, 04:43 AM
I thought she was a 200 year old monk with a natural affinity for bounded fields, and also she's a man.

terraablaze
November 26th, 2012, 07:39 AM
In Nasuland, C rank is below average. Just look at Noble Phantasms. E rank may as well not exist except for super freaks, even rarer then A.

food
November 26th, 2012, 08:15 AM
In Nasuland, C rank is below average. Just look at Noble Phantasms. E rank may as well not exist except for super freaks, even rarer then A.
But really anything below A is crap, since this is Asia.

terraablaze
November 26th, 2012, 08:39 AM
No one want to be just average. That basically makes you a nameless side character.

celsius
November 26th, 2012, 02:29 PM
Being average is lame. Being above average means you can at least be a heroine or side character. Being below average means you have a chance to become highly specialized at one particular thing that, while otherwise useless, is incredibly potent in resolving the story's primary conflict, which is practically a free pass to becoming a protagonist.

terraablaze
November 26th, 2012, 03:55 PM
If Nasu ever writes a truly average protagonist, it should be a comedy about trying to survive in a world of monsters.

Roughly how powerful are Caster's Sea God and Lv 100 Gorgon Medusa compared to Servants, how powerful would Extra Caster's demon fox/true form be compared to them?

You
November 26th, 2012, 06:04 PM
If these questions actually end up getting submitted for a Q & A, someone's gotta translate them, right?

terraablaze
November 26th, 2012, 06:22 PM
Some of the simpler ones we could try submitting in English like the last time (since they answered one), I don't know how well the translators on the forum can translate back into Japanese.

You
November 26th, 2012, 11:23 PM
What True Magic could Merlin use? Like, what did it do?

celsius
November 27th, 2012, 12:37 AM
It created manparts out of nothing. Denial of Y Chromosomelessness.

IhaxlikeNoob
November 27th, 2012, 01:02 AM
True Magic: Reproductive Cycle.

Kuradora
November 29th, 2012, 08:46 PM
What is meant by 'humanity' when talking about Avenger and Primate Murder? Do half-bloods count?

food
November 29th, 2012, 08:51 PM
It depends. Coma and Crimson Akiha are more Oni than human. On the other hand, there are Half-Bloods with much thinner blood. Going Triple Red is a property of the Family Head.

terraablaze
November 29th, 2012, 08:52 PM
If Avenger can't kill Servants with his aptitude to kill humans and has the same quality of human killing ability as Primate Murder, why does Primate Murder get a bonus to fight Servants?

food
November 29th, 2012, 09:00 PM
Servants are not humans.

Also, both of them have absolute authority when it comes to killing humans (auto-win). The difference in outcome when it comes to fighting Servants just means Primate Murder is statistically superior.

terraablaze
November 29th, 2012, 09:48 PM
Except Nasu mentioned Primate Murder being made to kill humans was part of the deal. Why Nasu. Avenger euen mentions if he met a human stronger then a Servant it wouldn't matter, so it can't be stats.

food
November 29th, 2012, 09:53 PM
Except Nasu mentioned Primate Murder being made to kill humans was part of the deal. Why Nasu. Avenger euen mentions if he met a human stronger then a Servant it wouldn't matter, so it can't be stats.
I don't see how that counters my points.

Both of them get "auto-kill" against humans, so their stats don't really matter as much when it comes to killing humans.

Servants are not humans, so both Avenger and Primate Murder need to actually use their stats in said fight. Since Primate Murder has better stats than random dead kid, Primate Murder comes out strong.

TypeWannabe
November 29th, 2012, 09:54 PM
It's like using Phoenix Down on undead, but that really not working on literally anything else.

Mcjon01
November 29th, 2012, 10:01 PM
Avenger has an absolute advantage over 人間 (humans). Primate Murder has an absolute advantage over 霊長 (primates). Appropriately enough. Clearly, primates is the more-inclusive category.

celsius
November 29th, 2012, 10:02 PM
Shiki can kill Avenger, discuss.

Mcjon01
November 29th, 2012, 10:03 PM
I don't see how that counters my points.

Both of them get "auto-kill" against humans, so their stats don't really matter as much when it comes to killing humans.

Servants are not humans, so both Avenger and Primate Murder need to actually use their stats in said fight. Since Primate Murder has better stats than random dead kid, Primate Murder comes out strong.

He's talking about the CM3 DAA vs Servants question, where Primate Murder is separated and put in a league of his own due to his "super-effective versus primates" aspect.

food
November 29th, 2012, 10:25 PM
He's talking about the CM3 DAA vs Servants question, where Primate Murder is separated and put in a league of his own due to his "super-effective versus primates" aspect.

It remains an issue of stats. Absolute right to kill humans translates to only 7 Servants, instead of ploughing them down without a pause.

IhaxlikeNoob
November 29th, 2012, 10:48 PM
Huh, and I thought PM could just metaphorically tell a human to "go die" then they would expire on the spot.

mAc Chaos
November 30th, 2012, 12:07 AM
Avenger has an absolute advantage over 人間 (humans). Primate Murder has an absolute advantage over 霊長 (primates). Appropriately enough. Clearly, primates is the more-inclusive category.
Couldn't you say Avenger's more specialized skill would make him more effective at killing humans? Or is that specified anywhere.

Mcjon01
November 30th, 2012, 12:20 AM
No.

Bittersweet
November 30th, 2012, 12:31 AM
No.

There's the Mcjon we know and love!

So chillingly pithy.

Brrrrr... >.<

Mcjon01
November 30th, 2012, 12:41 AM
I make every effort to answer questions as accurately as I can.

Kuradora
November 30th, 2012, 01:58 AM
Couldn't you say Avenger's more specialized skill would make him more effective at killing humans? Or is that specified anywhere.
He just has more style.

aldeayeah
November 30th, 2012, 05:18 AM
When it comes to quantity he's no match to the dog or the spider.

There was a quote in one of the HA snippets arai translated that went like that (paraphrasing from memory).

Tobias
December 6th, 2012, 10:11 AM
I have one actually

Why is Gilgamesh specifically stated to need Caren to stay in the world when theoretically he should not need a master due to his A+ independent action?

terraablaze
December 6th, 2012, 11:36 AM
Can Fujino bend Servants?

Altima of the Gates
December 6th, 2012, 12:44 PM
Didn't we already agree that if she thinks they can be bent, they can be bent?

terraablaze
December 6th, 2012, 12:59 PM
But does she think she can bend them is the question? It's really more a matter of why she can't fight Servants when she puts Shiki to shame in combat prowrerss.
>Can attack you from almost anywhere
>from behind cover
>ignores all defenses
>attacks quickly
>pretty much can't miss

Unless maybe her Clairvoyance isn't as cracked up as it sounds to, and it should be better then Archer's, I don't see what's going on here. Did Nasu think the guy was asking about a fist fight specifically?

Altima of the Gates
December 6th, 2012, 01:06 PM
I would think Archer's 2 mile sight would be better though.

terraablaze
December 6th, 2012, 01:18 PM
Her Clairvoyance has a range MUCH greater then 2 miles (3ish kilometers), and it can see through space unlike Archer's (meaning no physical obstructions). She was looking at both ends of a 10 kilometer long bridge with a single viewpoint, I'm not sure how that works with the human cone of vision but it's probably significantly more then 5 kilometers

terraablaze
December 7th, 2012, 08:22 PM
What is the rank of Nine Lives and does it have any effects other then those already described?

How did Archer kill Berserker 6 times with the rank degradation of Unlimited Blade Works?

What is the familiar Touko used to kill Alba, and how did it kill him if it's a 2-D object?

Why does Alba have a poor compatibility with magi like Kayneath?

food
December 7th, 2012, 08:40 PM
I think Nasu already said somewhere that he is not telling you how Archer killed Berserker.

Most likely because he does not know either, like how Zouken pwn'd Kuzuki.

terraablaze
December 7th, 2012, 08:49 PM
like how Zouken pwn'd Kuzuki.

I knew I was forgetting one.

We know that Origins influence behavior, and in the case of awakening to one's Origin it takes over. But how does awakening to an Origin give people like Lio and Araya super powers? Is it like ESP?

The fairies Ouji used were something God's Word taught her. What other alchemy does God's Word know and how good of an alchemist is he outside of using the Unified Langauge?

mAc Chaos
December 9th, 2012, 05:02 AM
I think instead of asking super specific questions that have to do with details that won't have any implications (like Archer killing Berserker six times) it would be better to go for questions that would increase our understanding of the Nasuverse as a whole. Or at least resolving contradictions.

Stuff like, "Were Sakura's actions in HF because of AM's influence or because it was just her all along" would resolve a lot of fan debates at least.

Mcjon01
December 9th, 2012, 05:15 AM
I think it doesn't matter because there will never ever be another public Q&A so people might as well list whatever's been bothering them.

terraablaze
December 9th, 2012, 07:32 AM
@mAc Chaos
already on the list. It's pretty long. I just got bored.

Altima of the Gates
December 9th, 2012, 08:11 AM
I think instead of asking super specific questions that have to do with details that won't have any implications (like Archer killing Berserker six times) it would be better to go for questions that would increase our understanding of the Nasuverse as a whole. Or at least resolving contradictions.

Stuff like, "Were Sakura's actions in HF because of AM's influence or because it was just her all along" would resolve a lot of fan debates at least.
Zouken already mentioned in route her unconsciously holding back the mud, and she doesn't do any such thing in the other routes, so it is safe to say AM caused a large bulk of things, her personal feelings notwithstanding(which were backed up by Ilya saying she accepted it so no one had to die), that she would not become like that without it. So you aren't likely to get anything from Nasu except what he put down for the blackening in CM3.

terraablaze
December 9th, 2012, 08:13 AM
But if the mud is just herself then that's no different from holding back any desire deemed unsavory.

Altima of the Gates
December 9th, 2012, 08:29 AM
But the mud isn't just herself, Kotomine even makes the explanation about two entities merging
Further, when we have the actual scene where the connection occured, that further probes that it is the invasion of a foreign entity, rather than just a desire fulfilled, so again, would be like catching a person their worst day, and someone wove a contingency spell to activate when that happened. In fact that is almost entirely how it happened, she feared Rin might kill Shirou, got angry/frustrated/depressed, and the connection was complete.

The rest happened because she designed to be a Holy Grail that malfunctions.
It is pretty much why Zouken does what he does, and why Sakura is so on guard when he 'plays nice'. She knows about Servant capture plan and the Einzbern's vessel, but not anything else about being the Grail or AM.