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lantzblades
March 31st, 2011, 05:44 AM
those of you before the move know what this is for.

for those just joining us i'll explain.

the winner of the poll will be the subject of the next route i do. look up shinji's route in this section. the point is to give those characters that didn't get a route their time in the spot light. given the poll limit i'll be rotating characters on the subsequent polls after the route is finished until i end up having ten or less characters left.

the first part of this thread will be used to debate and decide your votes. once the winner has been decided (by the vote locking etcetera) we'll begin discussing what the route itself should be like.

quick note I'm unsure that you can change you're vote at this time and will edit to reflect an ability to do so should I find it.

willyvereb
March 31st, 2011, 05:54 AM
I vote for Caster. It's about time to get our lovesick villain a chance!

Erlkonig
March 31st, 2011, 06:21 AM
Kiritusugu needs to redeem himself.

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 07:18 AM
I want a Saber Alter route. Badly. Lantz knows the reasons. :3

Airen
March 31st, 2011, 07:23 AM
Saber Alter.

Certis Baliano
March 31st, 2011, 07:48 AM
*Votes once again in favour of Ayako.*

Milbunk
March 31st, 2011, 07:50 AM
I vote for Caster.

eddyak
March 31st, 2011, 09:28 AM
Alter. I'd go with Caster, but I'm a little more interested in Alter.

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 09:47 AM
Hmm, well, I'm probably going to vote for whichever route looks like it can beat Alter's (out of Ayako's and Caster's, at least), because I have no interest in seeing that one and Rider's route isn't going to win....

Tobias
March 31st, 2011, 09:53 AM
It always feels strange when mike says things I agree with. I will probably go castah, I have learned to my sorrow that taiga never gets close.

Kotonoha
March 31st, 2011, 09:55 AM
Alter~

Flame
March 31st, 2011, 09:58 AM
Alter all the way.

ItsaRandomUsername
March 31st, 2011, 10:58 AM
Kiritsugu route? How...would that even work?

Ah well, Alter it is then.

RacingeR
March 31st, 2011, 11:10 AM
Went with Caster.

lantzblades
March 31st, 2011, 03:29 PM
Kiritsugu route? How...would that even work?

HA had time looping IRUN this is less complicated...


I have learned to my sorrow that taiga never gets close.

a bit sad to be honest considering her's is a logic busted roller coaster of hilariously awesome.

i'm amazed that alter has such a vocal fan out cry this time.

eddyak
March 31st, 2011, 03:32 PM
I'd take back my vote, but there's no button for vote-back-taking.

Thought about it, and I wanna see a Caster route instead now...

Cruor
March 31st, 2011, 03:35 PM
I'd take back my vote, but there's no button for vote-back-taking.

Thought about it, and I wanna see a Caster route instead now...
Yeah, this and the fact that your only allowed to have 10 options in a poll really annoy me.

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 03:36 PM
I want to vote Ilya,but she isn't really going to win. I'm gonna wait and see, but I'll probably end up voting Caster or just whichever one beats Alter. I really can't see myself caring for an Alter route.

lantzblades
March 31st, 2011, 04:14 PM
I'd take back my vote, but there's no button for vote-back-taking.

I stated that at the start of the thread eddy.


Thought about it, and I wanna see a Caster route instead now...

I'll note that so when the poll closes I'll adjust casters vote by one but state who you voted for previously. also i'm only letting you switch once because it'll get too confusing.


Yeah, this and the fact that your only allowed to have 10 options in a poll really annoy me.

rb is checking into a fix for the options. as for not being able to change votes as above it's stated in the first post.

Tobias
March 31st, 2011, 04:18 PM
S'why I haven't voted yet, heh.

eddyak
March 31st, 2011, 04:20 PM
state who you voted for previously.
Previously voted for Alter.

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 04:27 PM
So, out of those of us who don't want Alter to win, what is our preferred options?

Personally, I'd go 1) Rider, 2) Ilya, 3) Ayako, 4) Caster.

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 04:31 PM
So, out of those of us who don't want Alter to win, what is our preferred options?

Personally, I'd go 1) Rider, 2) Ilya, 3) Ayako, 4) Caster.

Mine is pretty much the same as yours,just switch Ilya and Rider around.

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 04:32 PM
Well, we should work out who best to vote for on that basis before choosing, so we can get the best option without Alter winning....

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 04:36 PM
Honestly, the only routes that have a mild chance of beating Alter are Ayako and Caster's,so...

Question for Lantz, though: Didn't you say, on the old BL, that you weren't going to do an Ayako route since we didn't have enough info about her? Did you think up something for that,or...?

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 04:41 PM
Well, at the moment, perhaps. But, if a large bunch of people all say "I want the Rider route most", then that has a decent chance of winning....

lantzblades
March 31st, 2011, 04:42 PM
Question for Lantz, though: Didn't you say, on the old BL, that you weren't going to do an Ayako route since we didn't have enough info about her? Did you think up something for that,or...?

turn's out I was over-complicating her status as a normal

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 04:52 PM
Well, at the moment, perhaps. But, if a large bunch of people all say "I want the Rider route most", then that has a decent chance of winning....

Thus why I'm inclined to wait a bit more. At least it isn't Archer's route that is winning.

giodan
March 31st, 2011, 04:53 PM
since the luvia rotue isn't here..... Kiritsugu!!! (i'm curius!)

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 04:54 PM
Thus why I'm inclined to wait a bit more. At least it isn't Archer's route that is winning.

Well, yeah, but for "waiting a bit more" to actually work, we need to know what the people who are waiting would rather vote for. Because, if Rider has 6 votes at the deadline but Alter and Ayako have 7, then the two of us together could make Rider win, whereas if we don't know that we'd both vote for Ayako to ensure that Alter doesn't win.

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 04:57 PM
Jesus Christ... such conspiracies.

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 04:57 PM
Well, I don't want an Alter route, but since vote-changing isn't possible, I have to know who has a chance of winning before voting....

Tobias
March 31st, 2011, 04:58 PM
To hell with it, I'm going castah

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 05:01 PM
Well, yeah, but for "waiting a bit more" to actually work, we need to know what the people who are waiting would rather vote for. Because, if Rider has 6 votes at the deadline but Alter and Ayako have 7, then the two of us together could make Rider win, whereas if we don't know that we'd both vote for Ayako to ensure that Alter doesn't win.

Aaaagh, this is why the forum needs a vote-takeback-option.
Though on BL, I'd have to say that I expected the votes to be somewhere like this:

Lancer: Bunches of votes
Archer: An ok amount of votes from some Archer fans
Saber Alter: Next to no votes. I thought Saber fans disliked Alter?
Rider: Bunches of votes,like Lancer
Caster: None
Ilya: Bunches
Ayako: God amount of votes
Taiga: None
Emiya's story: A few
Kiritsugu: A few

This one was a bit....unexpected. And Ilya just got a sudden increase in votes?

@Keyne: Ehhh,I wouldn't really say conspiracy. Though I guess I do seem a bit too focused on not letting Alter win, lol.

Just that I'd rather plan my vote so I get a route of a character I like at least a bit instead of voting for my very favorite character and then get a route about a character I really don't care for,something like that?

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 05:04 PM
Note that liking a character has little to do with giving that character a route. In particular, the only reason I'm interested in an Ayako route is because Sakura's situation will probably be dealt with there, and ditto a Rider route, really (although I do also like her as a character). As for Ilya, well, she does kinda deserve a route, really....

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 05:10 PM
I thought Saber fans disliked Alter?
You're wrong then. :3

Ehhh,I wouldn't really say conspiracy. Though I guess I do seem a bit too focused on not letting Alter win, lol.

Just that I'd rather plan my vote so I get a route of a character I like at least a bit instead of voting for my very favorite character and then get a route about a character I really don't care for,something like that?
I understand.

Note that liking a character has little to do with giving that character a route. In particular, the only reason I'm interested in an Ayako route is because Sakura's situation will probably be dealt with there, and ditto a Rider route, really (although I do also like her as a character). As for Ilya, well, she does kinda deserve a route, really....
You're boring.

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 05:15 PM
What, you find it somehow shocking that not leaving my favourite character to be slowly tortured to death is pretty high up my list of priorities when choosing the route?

But, anyway, what Ruca said basically applies to me. I would rather vote for someone who has a chance of winning that I don't like as much that vote for my absolute favourite and let someone I don't have any interest whatsoever in win. However, it makes sense for us to know each other's voting intentions so that people who don't take that approach don't get undue influence in deciding the winner.

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 05:16 PM
I always consider all routes canon in a way,so I can just choose a route for the character I like safely without the "SAKURA WILL END UP IN A HORRIBLE END" poking me on the back of my consciousness.

And huh,srsly Keyne? Didn't you post one time on Old BL saying something like how Saber Alter is a pretty damn horrible character that ruins Saber? Or am I thinking of someone else somewhere else?O_o

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 05:19 PM
Yeah, but they can't all be simultaneously canon. In the route that you choose, Sakura will suffer if she's not saved.

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 05:22 PM
However, won't they all lead to FHA, where you can see Sakura free as a bird anyway?

Though I'd really not have this debate again.>_>;

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 05:24 PM
And huh,srsly Keyne? Didn't you post one time on Old BL saying something like how Saber Alter is a pretty damn horrible character that ruins Saber? Or am I thinking of someone else somewhere else?O_o
Never in my life. D:

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 05:25 PM
However, won't they all lead to FHA, where you can see Sakura free as a bird anyway?

Erm, HA isn't real, for one thing, and it's probably only after one route....

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 05:28 PM
Because you see, Mike, I'm looking at Alter's route from this perspective "How will Shirou tackle this problem?". You're just linear.

Altima of the Gates
March 31st, 2011, 05:32 PM
Because you see, Mike, I'm looking at Alter's route from this perspective "How will Shirou tackle this problem?". You're just linear.

But in the end, it's really just his prerogative. You want that route because it's interesting, he wants to vote another way because of whatever. It's pretty much entertainment, so who cares.

I vote for Caster.

Ruca_Milda
March 31st, 2011, 05:33 PM
Erm, HA isn't real, for one thing, and it's probably only after one route....

HA IS real. I'm pretty sure Koto can also confirm this.

And considering that HA is kind-of a canon sequel, that means the route that happens before it is canon, and the others aren't, and on the before-HA route Sakura is saved so...profit?

Really though, I'd rather not discuss this on Lantz' topic, since I think that,from so many debates, we've achieved every single possible answer. :/

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 05:38 PM
But in the end, it's really just his prerogative. You want that route because it's interesting, he wants to vote another way because of whatever. It's pretty much entertainment, so who cares.

I vote for Caster.

Well, we were one step from seeing the first voting union in BL v.2.0. :3

eddyak
March 31st, 2011, 05:42 PM
So current votes are, including my switched vote:

Alter: 5
Caster: 6
Ilya: 3
Ayako: 3
Taiga: 1
Kiritsugu: 2

lantzblades
March 31st, 2011, 06:08 PM
with my vote it makes caster the current winner.

RacingeR
March 31st, 2011, 06:10 PM
To tell the truth Caster was my third favorite, with Ilya being first and second being Lancer. But didn't see any chance of them winning.

Also, since i intend to fully participate in this one, Caster seemed a sure way to avoid an HF retelling.

Cruor
March 31st, 2011, 06:17 PM
HA IS real. I'm pretty sure Koto can also confirm this.

And considering that HA is kind-of a canon sequel, that means the route that happens before it is canon, and the others aren't, and on the before-HA route Sakura is saved so...profit?

Really though, I'd rather not discuss this on Lantz' topic, since I think that,from so many debates, we've achieved every single possible answer. :/

ha is a real but in a different sense then what you are thinking. It is all a dream. Bazett is actually in a coma and at the end wakes up to see Caren.

Tobias
March 31st, 2011, 06:21 PM
And shirou and rin are coming to meet her, iirc.

EnigmaticFellow
March 31st, 2011, 06:50 PM
Placed my vote on Caster

Mike1984
March 31st, 2011, 06:57 PM
Well, I'm going to go for Ilya, then.

Ergast
March 31st, 2011, 07:41 PM
I have voted Ayako, as before.

We need the route with the more normal character, instead of overpowered magi or masters, or servants.
Also, being Ayako Rin's best friend, this route should have a good amount of Rin's goodness.

RacingeR
March 31st, 2011, 08:41 PM
I have voted Ayako, as before.

We need the route with the more normal character, instead of overpowered magi or masters, or servants.
Also, being Ayako Rin's best friend, this route should have a good amount of Rin's goodness.

Why i did not think this first?

Keyne
March 31st, 2011, 08:44 PM
Why i did not think this first?

Because you're better than that. :|

ItsaRandomUsername
April 1st, 2011, 10:59 AM
Forget Alter: Changed my vote to Illya.

[/as if you didn't see that coming]

Flame
April 1st, 2011, 11:02 AM
I'm with eddyak/RacingR, switching my vote to Caster.

Marth
April 1st, 2011, 11:08 AM
Caster. (Sorry, IRUn)
I want me some Caster, dammit. =/

Tobias
April 1st, 2011, 11:12 AM
Could castah be about to run away with it? Yay!


Haaaaaauuuuuuuu......sorry taiga...

Keyne
April 1st, 2011, 11:30 AM
Just a curious question: What's the sense in voting when you can change it at will?

ItsaRandomUsername
April 1st, 2011, 11:33 AM
*shurgs with a goofy grin like a moron*

Tobias
April 1st, 2011, 11:33 AM
For one thing, if you vote early, then others who might by thinking, if they see one they like winning and one they don't, they may well throw their support behind the winning one to ensure a route they like

Keyne
April 1st, 2011, 11:48 AM
For one thing, if you vote early, then others who might by thinking, if they see one they like winning and one they don't, they may well throw their support behind the winning one to ensure a route they like

Then the logical solution is to wait, not change everything after you have voted.

lantzblades
April 1st, 2011, 11:57 AM
uh guys I let eddy do that eariler due to his mistake then i reiterated the fact that it doesn't allow you to change. at that point you should have spoken up. I'm not about to count any one's changes unless they tally the current changes for me so come poll lock I don't have to search through this thread to figure out the winner.

LET ME ALSO STATE THIS IS THE LAST TIME I'LL BE ALLOWING A VOTE CHANGE, AFTER THIS YOU ARE STUCK WITH WHATEVER YOU'VE CHOSEN

i'm sorry that currently I can't give you the option to change your vote, hopefully it'll get fixed.

lantzblades
April 5th, 2011, 04:30 PM
How in gods name did alter start winning?

eddyak
April 5th, 2011, 05:26 PM
People making random accounts to vote?

/shrug

This is getting confusing, ask people to confirm their votes.

Mine's for Caster.

Keyne
April 5th, 2011, 05:57 PM
How's the timer set? Month-Day-Year or Day-Month-Year?

Tobias
April 5th, 2011, 05:58 PM
People making random accounts to vote?

/shrug



this is probably true


This is getting confusing, ask people to confirm their votes.

Mine's for Caster.

not a bad idea. caster

Certis Baliano
April 5th, 2011, 06:01 PM
Considering how well she did last time, I expected more people to vote for Ayako.

Oh well, I'll cast my vote for her once more.

EnigmaticFellow
April 5th, 2011, 06:36 PM
Posting yet again to still confirm my vote for Caster.

Keyne
April 5th, 2011, 06:39 PM
My vote is on Saber Alter.

Airen
April 5th, 2011, 06:42 PM
I'm still voting for Saber Alter.

Milbunk
April 5th, 2011, 06:55 PM
I'm still voting for Caster.

Mike1984
April 5th, 2011, 07:04 PM
Well, I'm going to switch from Ilya to Caster.

Keyne
April 5th, 2011, 07:08 PM
Well, I'm going to switch from Ilya to Caster.

But you can't change your vote.

Mike1984
April 5th, 2011, 07:29 PM
But you can't change your vote.

Lantz said that changing was allowed. Also, I recall that several other people changed, one from Alter to Caster.

RacingeR
April 5th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Confirming my vote for Caster.

ItsaRandomUsername
April 5th, 2011, 09:02 PM
On second thought, gimme Ayako then.

Satehi
April 5th, 2011, 09:13 PM
This is a tough choice, but I'll choose Alter.

lantzblades
April 17th, 2011, 10:09 PM
the poll finished out and counting out the switches i'm pretty certain (if someone want to check back and correct me feel free) caster won.

that said I'd like you all to tell me what you'd like to see in her route.

Mike1984
April 17th, 2011, 10:13 PM
Sakura (in a non-Dark form, and not dying) :p

More seriously, though, I'd assume that Shirou would find her instead of Kuzuki doing so, and it would go from there.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 12:16 AM
Why the heck is Alter Saber so popular anyways?

I voted for Illya, my second choice would have been Caster.

I'd like to see Caster helping Shirou realize that he's an idiot.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 01:32 AM
Sakura (in a non-Dark form, and not dying)

I don't know how much she'll be around honestly I haven't collected the back end of the route


More seriously, though, I'd assume that Shirou would find her instead of Kuzuki doing so, and it would go from there.

I said that would be the case several times actually.


Why the heck is Alter Saber so popular anyways?


her's is a funny and naughty route that's what's with that.


I'd like to see Caster helping Shirou realize that he's an idiot.

what do you mean?

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 02:04 AM
Well, all the time, in all the routes, Saber, Rin, or a combination of the two, hammer it into Shirou's head that he makes astoundingly stupid and nonsensical choices. Shirou seems to acknowledge this but he never really gets it. Because he's distorted. Caster being a potential yandere seems like she might have what it takes to straighten Shirou out. And hopefully without him ever realizing his reality marble since that's a symbol of his distortion.

Keyne
April 18th, 2011, 02:06 AM
They say that, but they make mistakes themselves, so they're even. I see no problem.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 02:15 AM
Shirou probably has luck A. Because some of the ridiculous choices he makes are required for his survival.
Rin has the worst luck, it can't be helped. Saber is in a pretty bad situation thanks to Shirou and she doesn't know better.

Keyne
April 18th, 2011, 02:19 AM
Actually, all the times he had saved Saber... gratitude developed alogside her feelings. Shirou is silly cuz he is, but that is not a bad thing. And in the end, Saber herself realised how foolish her wish was.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 02:21 AM
Actually, all the times he had saved Saber... gratitude developed alogside her feelings. Shirou is silly cuz he is, but that is not a bad thing.

Hmm... it all goes back to the bar huh? Luck EX?

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 02:23 AM
Well, all the time, in all the routes, Saber, Rin, or a combination of the two, hammer it into Shirou's head that he makes astoundingly stupid and nonsensical choices. Shirou seems to acknowledge this but he never really gets it. Because he's distorted. Caster being a potential yandere seems like she might have what it takes to straighten Shirou out. And hopefully without him ever realizing his reality marble since that's a symbol of his distortion.

I see...yeah I don't see Caster noticing that nigh unstoppable power and then not telling him, sorry.

Keyne
April 18th, 2011, 02:23 AM
Hmm... it all goes back to the bar huh? Luck EX?

Goes to the what? The piece of plastic over which you jump?

Cut that out.

He was nice to her, polite, respectful, he took care of her needs, showed compassion and gave her the love she never had.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 02:26 AM
I see...yeah I don't see Caster noticing that nigh unstoppable power and then not telling him, sorry.

But reality marbles are different from Caster's brand of magic and more importantly, Shirou's ideals involve him being suicidal most of the time instead of letting expendable dragon teeth golems do the work.


Goes to the what? The piece of plastic over which you jump?

Cut that out.

He was nice to her, polite, respectful, he took care of her needs and gave her the love she never had.

It basically goes back to him showing off his epic will and a girl raising her opinion of him. Of course, that triggers a flag where the girl eventually falls hopelessly in love with him given enough time. It's more accurate than the Emiya gland, he's not really an Emiya.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 02:33 AM
But reality marbles are different from Caster's brand of magic

I've been over this before. caster's different style would not keep her from noticing the facts, further she would certainly encourage his learning of his real skill.


and more importantly, Shirou's ideals involve him being suicidal most of the time instead of letting expendable dragon teeth golems do the work.

I assume you're referring to his wanting to save saber from berserker. Dragon golems are not alive in the sense that saber or rin are. he's be fine having caster use them to fight or back him up.

Keyne
April 18th, 2011, 02:34 AM
It basically goes back to him showing off his epic will and a girl raising her opinion of him. Of course, that triggers a flag where the girl eventually falls hopelessly in love with him given enough time. It's more accurate than the Emiya gland, he's not really an Emiya.
I don't understand the last sentence. And the girl does not fall hopelessly in love with him, they just fall in love (if they're not Sakura). He is strong (yes) and kind. Last time I looked, girls like those things in a man.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 02:59 AM
I've been over this before. caster's different style would not keep her from noticing the facts, further she would certainly encourage his learning of his real skill.

I assume you're referring to his wanting to save saber from berserker. Dragon golems are not alive in the sense that saber or rin are. he's be fine having caster use them to fight or back him up.

I was referring to the fact he wants to fight against servants when he's barely a magus but saving saber from berserker counts too. I too agree that she would encourage him to master his magecraft but not if it means encouraging his selflessness. Caster would probably appreciate his kindness but being Caster, I doubt she wants to put her Shirou at risk. There's probably other 'sword' attribute magecraft he can refine other than his reality marble.


I don't understand the last sentence. And the girl does not fall hopelessly in love with him, they just fall in love (if they're not Sakura). He is strong (yes) and kind. Last time I looked, girls like those things in a man.

Rin is also crazy for him. It's just that she's a tsuntsun virign, but even so, she always initiates the H scene. Well, he's not genetically an Emiya, if anything, it should be called a Shirou gland.

Keyne
April 18th, 2011, 03:11 AM
There's probably other 'sword' attribute magecraft he can refine other than his reality marble.
We haven't been reading the same visual novel.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 03:12 AM
I was referring to the fact he wants to fight against servants when he's barely a magus but saving saber from berserker counts too. I too agree that she would encourage him to master his magecraft but not if it means encouraging his selflessness. Caster would probably appreciate his kindness but being Caster, I doubt she wants to put her Shirou at risk. There's probably other 'sword' attribute magecraft he can refine other than his reality marble.

caster is caster and between her, saber and assassin Shirou will get more then enough training and help. as for other sword attributes no. he's got his inner world and that's it.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 03:33 AM
You're letting Shirou keep Saber too? And Assassin? That's overkill and a lot of guys are going to be sterile. Perhaps you should kill Saber off since her upright attitude doesn't match that of Casters though Caster can probably bring Saber's viewpoint about.

As for what VN I'm reading. Blame that on Shirou the idiot and unreliable narrator. Archer may not have developed any new spells but EMIYA isn't exactly an upstanding magus, to paraphrase, he just stumbled along clumsily mastering that one spell. Shirou's origin and attribute being sword might allow him to wield a conceptual weapon like Avenger without destroying his arm or mana burst using blades like Saber. Alternatively, he might have great potential for using enchanted black keys the way Ciel does. He never learned any other skills in the VN but I think it has potential.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 03:57 AM
You're letting Shirou keep Saber too? And Assassin?

well no matter how the routes go he ALWAYS summons Saber and given that he'll be dealing with caster before then and she would want him to be protected she would summon assassin. it's a logical process.


That's overkill and a lot of guys are going to be sterile.

what are you talking about sterile?


Perhaps you should kill Saber off

rejected. I develop organic stories not ones based on contrived factors. nor do I ever entertain the idea of character death for the sake of drama.


As for what VN I'm reading. Blame that on Shirou the idiot and unreliable narrator. Archer may not have developed any new spells but EMIYA isn't exactly an upstanding magus, to paraphrase, he just stumbled along clumsily mastering that one spell. Shirou's origin and attribute being sword might allow him to wield a conceptual weapon like Avenger without destroying his arm or mana burst using blades like Saber. Alternatively, he might have great potential for using enchanted black keys the way Ciel does. He never learned any other skills in the VN but I think it has potential.

at the point when he was a kid after the fire maybe but his powers as they stand as an adult are the UBW and it's associated skills nothing more. his inner world is set and is so powerful I doubt the universe would let him live if he got any other superpowers.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 04:02 AM
In that case, you'll have to take into consideration the fact Shirou can't produce enough prana and Caster will continue to cause those gas leak incidents. Sterile as in Hemlock, Caster hates men and in revenge she drains them and makes them sterile. Honestly, Saber and Caster combined can probably defeat any other servant 2vs1.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 04:16 AM
In that case, you'll have to take into consideration the fact

it's nice you're trying to help(I hope that's what you're doing) but the fact is I know the boundries of the characters, I'm not a rookie. go look at Shinji's route I play him straight without any mysterious additions or changes.


and Caster will continue to cause those gas leak incidents.

speculation and nothing more


Sterile as in Hemlock, Caster hates men

an aversion to men because of a bad event is different then actual hatred.


Honestly, Saber and Caster combined can probably defeat any other servant 2vs1.

in theory yes but in theory shiki could kill berserker and we all know that's bull shit.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 04:32 AM
it's nice you're trying to help(I hope that's what you're doing) but the fact is I know the boundries of the characters, I'm not a rookie. go look at Shinji's route I play him straight without any mysterious additions or changes.

Ya, I'm trying to help, it has more influence to complain now than after you've written the fic. At that point, I wouldn't bother to criticize.


speculation and nothing more

Well, Caster did it without Kuzuki's knowledge since she needed prana. Shirou's not much better as a prana supply. Though when Rin confronted Kuzuki, he didn't care, Shirou on the other hand isn't an ex-assassin and would react differently.


an aversion to men because of a bad event is different then actual hatred.

Might not be 'hatred' but she still used that Hemlock according to the Rin perspective interlude.


in theory yes but in theory shiki could kill berserker and we all know that's bull shit.

Sorry, I don't get that reference, which Shiki and which theory? Perhaps that doujin? In canon, it should be impossible.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 04:41 AM
Well, Caster did it without Kuzuki's knowledge since she needed prana.

the major differences here would be

1) shirou's whole attitude toward caster and in general
2) Saber's presence
3) Kojiro's clearly more active role in things as at the emiya house he'd be more then just a guard

these combined elements would alter her choices drastically in regards to omnomnoming on souls.


Might not be 'hatred' but she still used that Hemlock according to the Rin perspective interlude.

rin's more unreliable then shirou narration wise. and hemlock kills anyways...


which Shiki and which theory?

tonho. the idea is because he can instant kill anything then he should be able to do so to berserker. tis bull shit i say.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 04:49 AM
Ah, right, Kojiro's pretty much stuck at the gate, since the gate was used as a catalyst and he is bound to the mountain. You should come up with a workaround for that.

I don't disagree that her choices might change but she still needs a source of prana.

MEoDP can't see death on Servants because they don't have a Gaia concept of death... probably because they're already dead. Shiki can't kill servants unless it's a game or a hax doujin.

eddyak
April 18th, 2011, 08:46 AM
a Gaia concept of death
Facepalm.

There's no such thing as a "gaian concept of death". Not everything under Gaia has the same type of death, Shiki can only see the deaths of things he can understand, and the MEoDP have nothing to do with Gaia.

Shiki can probably see as much of their lines as he could see on the TATARI clones. Probably couldn't see the dots, though, since they can't really be killed- they're already dead.

Tobias
April 18th, 2011, 09:25 AM
the poll finished out and counting out the switches i'm pretty certain (if someone want to check back and correct me feel free) caster won.

that said I'd like you all to tell me what you'd like to see in her route.

a few notes/thoughts, use as you like.

one of the most interesting dynamics is, assuming caster fell for shirou, is her fanatical loyalty and canonical willingness to hide things from her master, so caster might easily take actions she knew shirou wouldnt agree with to protect him.

pretty sure FA could be summoned to leave the gate if he had an actual master and prana support, caster just didnt do it that way because she wanted a guard and personal control of FA's command spells. she would still need to use the gate as a summoning catalyst.

caster is absolutely not used to being put up on a pedastal, let alone having someone else risk their life for her, its always the other way around.

Eveonder
April 18th, 2011, 09:45 AM
Facepalm.

There's no such thing as a "gaian concept of death". Not everything under Gaia has the same type of death, Shiki can only see the deaths of things he can understand, and the MEoDP have nothing to do with Gaia.

Shiki can probably see as much of their lines as he could see on the TATARI clones. Probably couldn't see the dots, though, since they can't really be killed- they're already dead.

What it means is that Gaia does not allow the thing to die. MEODP is limited to "predetermined life span, as in what binds the object to the relevant plane of existence, in other words, the time limit, is seen." Heroic Spirits and Counter Guardians exist outside time. Gaia's concept of death or time limit does not exist. Like how Shiki can't see any lines or points on Arc when the moon is full. But I just realized that Shiki might be able to see the 'class' and cut those sending the actual heroic spirits to the lesser grail. Since Servants or at least their materialization can be destroyed (but still, they're not killed, they're just sent to the lesser grail).

eddyak
April 18th, 2011, 09:55 AM
What it means is that Gaia does not allow the thing to die. MEODP is limited to "predetermined life span, as in what binds the object to the relevant plane of existence, in other words, the time limit, is seen." Heroic Spirits and Counter Guardians exist outside time. Gaia's concept of death or time limit does not exist. Like how Shiki can't see any lines or points on Arc when the moon is full. But I just realized that Shiki might be able to see the 'class' and cut those sending the actual heroic spirits to the lesser grail. Since Servants or at least their materialization can be destroyed (but still, they're not killed, they're just sent to the lesser grail).
The Heroic Spirits in the Throne couldn't be killed, but the copies of them that are called Servants can be. They probably don't have dota, since that's complete and utter death, but the lines where they break down should be visible.

lantzblades
April 18th, 2011, 10:38 AM
one of the most interesting dynamics is, assuming caster fell for shirou, is her fanatical loyalty and canonical willingness to hide things from her master, so caster might easily take actions she knew shirou wouldnt agree with to protect him.


sounds a lot like Saber.


caster is absolutely not used to being put up on a pedastal, let alone having someone else risk their life for her, its always the other way around.

that's be a big factor in the baby face turn here.

Tobias
April 18th, 2011, 10:42 AM
Maybe, but to a far greater extent. Actually I was thinking about how caster hid the fact that she was draining the town for magic from kuzuki because she didn't know if he would approve.


Then he was like lol, you should be killing them, not just leaving them unconscious!

Mike1984
April 18th, 2011, 12:32 PM
Rin has the worst luck, it can't be helped.

Rin also managed to come to the conclusion that that her little sister was just fine despite her being constantly depressed and having purple hair, and plus she spent the last ten years trying to become a true magus at all costs, including her humanity, so I don't think she's really suited to showing Shirou how not to make mind-numbingly stupid decisions....


Caster would probably appreciate his kindness but being Caster, I doubt she wants to put her Shirou at risk

Of course not, but since when has a silly thing like being totally powerless


Rin is also crazy for him. It's just that she's a tsuntsun virign, but even so, she always initiates the H scene.

Not in quite the same way as Sakura is. And, in Sakura's case, the extreme nature of her devotion to him is due to her circumstances rather than his actions theirselves.