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View Full Version : finally diving into Kara No Kyoukai, where should i start?



iamnuff
May 8th, 2013, 09:50 PM
so.


anime episodes, or anime movies?

i don't want spoilers, but are the movies just a better quality version of the anime? or is it something completely different? I also heard that the movies are out of order or something?



basically, as a first time viewer, where do you recommend i begin?

Ep 1? movie 1?

somewhere else?

Leftovers
May 8th, 2013, 09:56 PM
They are the same thing. And watch them as they were released, unless non-linear narratives fry your brain or something.

Strife ❤️
May 8th, 2013, 09:57 PM
There is only one animated version, 7 movies, watch them in the order they were released :)

Dullahan
May 8th, 2013, 09:59 PM
Watch the movies, then read the novels. A lot of people have problems with cokesakto's translation, but, unfortunately, unless you're willing to grapple with moonrunes, that's the only way you're going to get if you want to read past Chapter five.

bahamut zero
May 8th, 2013, 10:28 PM
so.


anime episodes, or anime movies?

i don't want spoilers, but are the movies just a better quality version of the anime? or is it something completely different? I also heard that the movies are out of order or something?



basically, as a first time viewer, where do you recommend i begin?

Ep 1? movie 1?

somewhere else?

there are no episodes.

Crown
May 8th, 2013, 11:09 PM
Watch the movies, then read the novels. A lot of people have problems with cokesakto's translation, but, unfortunately, unless you're willing to grapple with moonrunes, that's the only way you're going to get if you want to read past Chapter five.

cokesakto is the hero TM translations need.

terraablaze
May 8th, 2013, 11:16 PM
cokesakto is the anit-hero TM translations need.

Indeed, look how hard McJon01 and food started working when his translation hit the discussions.

Spinach
May 9th, 2013, 01:26 AM
Just watch the movies. Unless you want to go to GD and argue powerlevels you don't need to read the novels, since they're inferior to the anime anyway.

aldeayeah
May 9th, 2013, 03:19 AM
spin pls go

Spinach
May 9th, 2013, 03:27 AM
Nope.

Polly
May 9th, 2013, 04:01 AM
Spin is right.

Kelnish
May 9th, 2013, 05:05 AM
Just watch the movies. Unless you want to go to GD and argue powerlevels you don't need to read the novels, since they're inferior to the anime anyway.

It's not like you can go to GD and argue powerlevels with the novels anyway. Not finished or cokesakto will do that to you.

iamnuff
May 9th, 2013, 07:45 AM
huh. so the anime is the movie.


ok. thanks.

Strife ❤️
May 9th, 2013, 10:02 AM
Spin is right.

Yep

Spinach
May 9th, 2013, 10:05 AM
Spin is right.

I never thought I would see somebody say this

;_;

ItsaRandomUsername
May 9th, 2013, 10:10 AM
For the record, Spin, I always liked your opinions.

Spinach
May 9th, 2013, 10:12 AM
The tears of happiness, they do not stop

;_;

Leftovers
May 9th, 2013, 10:15 AM
But it was obvious. No one actually read the novels for entertainment.

ItsaRandomUsername
May 9th, 2013, 10:16 AM
They read for powerlevels. Which backfires because they then get bitchslapped down by rune-readers when they set foot into GD into a KnK argument using cokesakto.

terraablaze
May 9th, 2013, 10:19 AM
But it was obvious. No one actually read the novels for entertainment.

I read the Baka Tsuki translation for entertainment because I unironically like characters aimlessly babbling about philosophy. Come at me bro.

Daiki
May 9th, 2013, 10:19 AM
The tears of happiness, they do not stop

;_;


And i'm gonna sig this.

Leftovers
May 9th, 2013, 10:26 AM
I read the Baka Tsuki translation for entertainment because I unironically like characters aimlessly babbling about philosophy. Come at me bro.

You aren't human. And it's not even good navel-gazing.

Enhance
May 9th, 2013, 10:29 AM
I read the Baka Tsuki translation for entertainment because I unironically like characters aimlessly babbling about philosophy. Come at me bro.

I stand by your side.

Polly
May 9th, 2013, 10:42 AM
I never thought I would see somebody say this

;_;


I love you too, man.

gwonbush
May 9th, 2013, 10:46 AM
Reading the Baka-Tsuki version of Overlooking View is worth it just for Touko saying "Even I need a broomstick to fly".

Kelnish
May 9th, 2013, 12:10 PM
This thread just reminded me I have the baka-tsuki translation sitting on my phone just waiting to be read for funsies. Thanks BL!

Hen_Ichi
May 9th, 2013, 01:48 PM
Movies then Cokesakto thing is good.

Even through the Coke'ism I found the novels better than the Movies overall.

Strife ❤️
May 9th, 2013, 01:54 PM
:O

ZidanReign
May 9th, 2013, 05:04 PM
Why did you guys remind me of the Bake-Tsuki Translation? I read that from a link a friend gave me, thinking this was Kara no Kyoukai for real.

I read it to the last and I was filled with confused feelings

iamnuff
May 12th, 2013, 12:28 PM
just watching the fourth movie now, did Mikiya seriously just spend two years visiting Shiki in the hospital, only to stop the day she woke up, leaving her alone as she considers clawing out her own eyes or killing herself because she think's she's all alone now that SHIKI is dead?

she even explicitly mentions that she has come to rely on her phony "Speech Therapist" because she has nobody else.

what the fuck man?

I already knew, from the previous movies, that Touko's moral compass doesn't exactly point north (lol-magus) but i expected better from Proto-shiki

terraablaze
May 12th, 2013, 12:30 PM
I am confused by so many things in your post. How can Mikiya be the proto Shiki when Shiki is the protagonist of the story he stars in.

iamnuff
May 12th, 2013, 12:54 PM
proto=prototype.

he's the prototype of Shiki Tohno from tsukihime.

Kotonoha
May 12th, 2013, 12:55 PM
Ignore Terra, he's silly.

terraablaze
May 12th, 2013, 01:09 PM
proto=prototype.

he's the prototype of Shiki Tohno from tsukihime.

I know what the word proto stood for, I was pointing out you mentioned a Shiki twice without any form of differentiation.
Now we need to discuss how you consider Tohno a paragon of morality that is somehow better then Mikiya is extremely messed up.

Kelnish
May 12th, 2013, 01:11 PM
Rape is a societal good by creating children that otherwise wouldn't exist and creating a moral evil that people can oppose and strive against while killing demons removes a potentially dangerous element that threatens the ascension of man; being as normal as possible as the root of your existence does nothing for the advancement of humanity only continuing its slow decay through time.

This is jokes.

Enhance
May 12th, 2013, 01:18 PM
just watching the fourth movie now, did Mikiya seriously just spend two years visiting Shiki in the hospital, only to stop the day she woke up, leaving her alone as she considers clawing out her own eyes or killing herself because she think's she's all alone now that SHIKI is dead?
"But --- if she's like that, will they disallow visitors for that patient?"

"Probably. Until she's recovered her psychological balance, even her time with her parents will be limited."

"So that's how it is. In that case, I feel kinda sorry for that boy."

"Who? What boy?"

"Don't you know? After that patient was brought here, there's this kid who came to visit every Saturday. I guess he's too old to call a kid anymore, but, if possible, I want to let him meet her."

Hen_Ichi
May 12th, 2013, 01:39 PM
Yeah. He missed the bit where they said they wouldn't be allowing random ppl to visit in order to pave the way for his raeg.

iamnuff
May 12th, 2013, 02:23 PM
"But --- if she's like that, will they disallow visitors for that patient?"

"Probably. Until she's recovered her psychological balance, even her time with her parents will be limited."

"So that's how it is. In that case, I feel kinda sorry for that boy."

"Who? What boy?"

"Don't you know? After that patient was brought here, there's this kid who came to visit every Saturday. I guess he's too old to call a kid anymore, but, if possible, I want to let him meet her."

yeah, because doing what someone says even when they obviously don't know what's really going on is a great idea, right?

it didn't stop Touko from visiting, he could probably have snuck in or something. just to check for himself that she was really awake, or ask if she was ok.

especially considering how suspicious Touko was acting when he asked her how shiki was.



Now we need to discuss how you consider Tohno a paragon of morality that is somehow better then Mikiya is extremely messed up.

did i ever say that Tohno was a paragon of morality? actually did i ever bring up tohno at all? other than an offhand mention that Mikiya is the guy who eventually became tohno?

i just said i expected better from the guy who faithfully visited Shiki every week for two years.


@Kelnish (http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/member.php/2583-Kelnish)

exactly the sort of comment i would expect from someone with Gil as their avatar.

Enhance
May 12th, 2013, 03:00 PM
yeah, because doing what someone says even when they obviously don't know what's really going on is a great idea, right?
I didn't get that line.

He was visiting her every Saturday. Then (whatever else day) she woke up and tried to poke out her eyes, so they no longer allow visitors.
Touko could enter there as speech therapist under excuse of helping her regain speech post-coma.

He also might not know much about her anyway, it's only been a little since they've met (2 years don't count). Do you always assume doctors "don't know what's going on"?

And anyway:



"It's gloomy, too gloomy."

"Yes ma'am. A light, I'll obtain one that's suitable."

He replies without even looking at Touko.

There are times when a dutiful person will show absurdly eccentric conduct as a result of having missed something. Thinking this teen is of that sort, Touko speaks to him.

"Don't think so obsessively about it. You seem ready to just charge in there tonight or something."

"Impossible, ma'am. That hospital, the security is nothing short of a research lab's."

In contrast to the casual manner in which he replies, it seems as if he's carried out a pretty thorough investigation.

Touko shrugs, thinking: Well, I can't let a brand new employee become a criminal.

"... I was going to stay quiet about this, but since you are so agitated, I'll tell you. I'm going to be working at the hospital as a stand-in from tomorrow. I'll find out how Ryougi Shiki is, so just sit tight for now."

"--- What?"

"It just so happened that I got invited as a doctor. Normally I would have refused, but this time it's not as if it's someone else's business. Seeing as I dragged the story out of you, I thought that I had to at least do this for you."

Touko speaks as if it's no big deal.

Rising up from his chair, he approaches Touko and grabs hold of her two hands.

Hen_Ichi
May 12th, 2013, 03:07 PM
He's saying that the painfully fundamentally normal person should ignore the stipulations laid out by trained medical staff, not trust his employer visiting Shiki and sneak into a hospital by his goody twoshoes self in order check on the love of his life.

iamnuff
May 12th, 2013, 11:14 PM
because the situation is obviously not normal?

if he can't tell someone freaky is going on with shiki then he's seriously not being paying any attention.

more importantly, if he's been waiting for two years for her to wake up, you would think he would be willing to bend the rules just once to see her face to face, right after she wakes up, right? thats a pretty normal thing to do, isn't it?

though on second thought, seeing him with her brand new MEoDP would probably be pretty bad for her mental state, but its not like he could know that.

actually, what countries do you live in?

I know in some countries people take their doctor's words as gospel (and i suppose japan would be one of them...) but in England we tend to take what they say with a grain of salt.

probably because of the declining state of the NHS, i guess, A couple of people I know got fucked over by doctors who where sure they knew what they were doing, but never bothered to actually check.


my uncle got a surgical sponge left inside him after an op, and one moronic doctor managed to convince himself that my sister was pregnant when she came to A&E with appendicitis.

he wrote it on her little clip-board and everything, so every other doctor who showed up just read the notes, then ignored everything the patient (and her family) said. Everybody Lies


this went on for about three days, with my sister in constant agony, we ended up loading her into a wheel-chair, then driving to another hospital (without filling in any of the paperwork so it wouldn't follow her to the new hospital) so when we arrived the doctor who saw her had to do his own diagnosis instead of just reading the misdiagnosis on her file.

naturally after about 30 seconds of actually looking, he was yelling to get this girl into surgery imminently, before her appendix burst and killed her.

turns out we had spent so long fucking around that it burst on the way into the operating room, they had to drain the fluid out with a hose thing so it didn't kill her.


so yeah,

TL;DR, i guess i don't have as much respect for the medical professionals as you guys do.


they try to do their best, obviously, but they are rarely in possession of all the facts, if only for the simple reason that they see dozens of patients every day, and they don't have time to memorize the exact details of each case.



If I heard one of my friends had just woke up from a coma, and a doctor told me s/he wasn't allowed visitors, then naturally i would nod, agree, ask when they would be allowed visitors, then wait till the doctor turns his back and cheerfully ignore everything he just said to go check to my friend.

because waking up form a two year coma is probably scary as fuck, and I know i'd want a friend by my side to remind me that everyone didn't move on without me while I was unconscious.


that does make sense, doesn't it? I'm not just spouting crazy talk here, right?

Polly
May 13th, 2013, 03:51 AM
You sound like you're 12, maximum 14 years old. And you really don't like doctors because reasons. And you clearly don't know much about coma patients or Shiki or Mikiya.

Crown
May 13th, 2013, 04:13 AM
What if he was also molested by a doctor? You didn't consider that, did you?

Polly
May 13th, 2013, 04:17 AM
I said "because of reasons". Molestation is a reason. But I don't care about why he dislikes doctors. His failure to grasp Mikiya's character or understand why people don't just ignore the doctor's advice and go sneaking around the hospital and breaking into their sick friend's room is more bothersome to me.

Enhance
May 13th, 2013, 04:51 AM
To all that, I posted a quote on why Mikiya isn't going to break in (even though Touko jokingly suspects he would try to) and how he relies on Touko to check on Shiki's well-being.
And doctors are people too, they make mistakes, yes, so no one takes what they say as gospel, but they're undoubtedly the ones with degree and actually having a better idea than you on what exactly is going on.


If I heard one of my friends had just woke up from a coma, and a doctor told me s/he wasn't allowed visitors, then naturally i would nod, agree, ask when they would be allowed visitors, then wait till the doctor turns his back and cheerfully ignore everything he just said to go check to my friend.

because waking up form a two year coma is probably scary as fuck, and I know i'd want a friend by my side to remind me that everyone didn't move on without me while I was unconscious.


There is a lot wrong with this logic, for example you in your two-years-older form showing up in front of a face of someone who had just woken up.

iamnuff
May 13th, 2013, 08:02 AM
You sound like you're 12, maximum 14 years old. And you really don't like doctors because reasons. And you clearly don't know much about coma patients or Shiki or Mikiya.

twenty actually,


What if he was also molested by a doctor? You didn't consider that, did you?

so now you just devolve to trolling?


I said "because of reasons". Molestation is a reason. But I don't care about why he dislikes doctors. His failure to grasp Mikiya's character or understand why people don't just ignore the doctor's advice and go sneaking around the hospital and breaking into their sick friend's room is more bothersome to me.

breaking in?

really? you say it like its a huge deal that doesn't happen all the time, if you get spotted visiting after hours or when visitors aren't allowed then you would just be asked to leave, its not like someone would call the police or chase you out of the hospital with a knife.


its not that i think i know better than someone with a degree, its just that I think a familiar face would be far more comforting when you wake up, then some total stranger.


To all that, I posted a quote on why Mikiya isn't going to break in (even though Touko jokingly suspects he would try to) and how he relies on Touko to check on Shiki's well-being.

pretty sure your quote was why he was told not to visit. not why he decided not to visit.

I understand that his basic character is "Dutiful Japanese Guy" so that probably involved following all of the rules, but you would think the whole "camping outside Shiki's house for what was apparently months" and "lying to the police to cover for Shiki" would have been just enough character development to bend the rules, just this once.




There is a lot wrong with this logic, for example you in your two-years-older form showing up in front of a face of someone who had just woken up.


fair enough. you actually have a very good point here.


have to say, I was sorta expecting reasonable discussion, perhaps pertaining to the characters themselves, or perhaps why its apparently a lot less acceptable to nip around behind the doctors back for a couple of minutes to say "hello" in whatever countries you guys come from.


I really wasn't expecting "LOL you must be 12" and "Did you get raped bro?"

Seika
May 13th, 2013, 08:15 AM
its not that i think i know better than someone with a degree, its just that I think a familiar face would be far more comforting when you wake up, then some total stranger.
"It's not that I think I know better, it's just that I think I know better." Unless you have a particularly unfortunate life with a good dozen of your friends having fallen into year-long comas, doctors assigned to these kinds of cases are certainly more experienced regarding both the medical and emotional necessities of the situation. As a rule, never assume yourself more knowledgeable than a professional in the field. They have that job for a reason; you don't have that job for a reason.

And if you're twenty, then you might consider typing like it. Rather than a six-year-old who hasn't quite worked out apostrophes or the shift key yet.

Polly
May 13th, 2013, 09:04 AM
breaking in?

really? you say it like its a huge deal that doesn't happen all the time, if you get spotted visiting after hours or when visitors aren't allowed then you would just be asked to leave, its not like someone would call the police or chase you out of the hospital with a knife.

Where I live, people don't just walk into patients' rooms whenever they please. They tend to respect the hospital regulations and come strictly during visiting hours. So no, it doesn't really happen all the time, and I'm certain that this is even more true for a country like Japan.



its not that i think i know better than someone with a degree, its just that I think a familiar face would be far more comforting when you wake up, then some total stranger.

When waking up from a year-long coma, the patient has a severely limited ability to respond to their surroundings. A familiar face might be helpful, but it is questionable whether the patient even remembers anyone when they first wake up, and the patient is barely conscious during that early period.
Basically, visiting a friend who just woke up from a coma will only make you feel better; your friend will be barely awake, likely unable to speak or even move normally, and certainly unfit for a conversation.




pretty sure your quote was why he was told not to visit. not why he decided not to visit.

He decided not to visit because he has common sense and patience.


I understand that his basic character is "Dutiful Japanese Guy" so that probably involved following all of the rules, but you would think the whole "camping outside Shiki's house for what was apparently months" and "lying to the police to cover for Shiki" would have been just enough character development to bend the rules, just this once.

Again, he has patience to wait until she gets better and is fit for a conversation, and has enough common sense to know that rushing a meeting and sneaking in wouldn't be productive at all.



have to say, I was sorta expecting reasonable discussion, perhaps pertaining to the characters themselves, or perhaps why its apparently a lot less acceptable to nip around behind the doctors back for a couple of minutes to say "hello" in whatever countries you guys come from.
I really wasn't expecting "LOL you must be 12" and "Did you get raped bro?"

Well, your whole question was a bit silly from the start, but many people actually did make reasonable and coherent arguments and some even quoted the books to show you what the situation was and explain Mikiya's reasoning for not storming the hospital and breaking down the doors just to see his beloved Shiki awake. But you stubbornly continued with your argument and started to insult the medical profession and say things like "if doctors told me not to visit a friend who woke up from a coma I wouldn't obey and would sneak in and break the door if needed", so we responded in kind.

Crown
May 13th, 2013, 10:42 AM
so now you just devolve to trolling?

It's totally normal to repress memories.

Enhance
May 13th, 2013, 10:51 AM
pretty sure your quote was why he was told not to visit. not why he decided not to visit.



"Don't think so obsessively about it. You seem ready to just charge in there tonight or something."

"Impossible, ma'am. That hospital, the security is nothing short of a research lab's."
It's also apparent he can't bend rules this time.

So Touko decided to mention that she was invited and that he can check on Shiki for him, so he should just sit tight:

I'll find out how Ryougi Shiki is, so just sit tight for now.

And for that, Mikiya was really grateful:


Rising up from his chair, he approaches Touko and grabs hold of her two hands. Voom, voom. The two people's hands go up and down. ...Not realizing that this is an expression of his admiration, Touko stares at him with a stiff face.

"You have some strange hobbies, don't you?"

"I'm delighted! In fact, I'm stunned! There's a gentle and virtuous side to Touko-san like in other people after all!"


Also, right after, yes - he is told that he'd rather not go.



"So don't do anything rash. Even without that sort of thing, that hospital is strange. You will sit here and look after the office, got it?"

At that, the until-then hyperactive employee settles down.

"... Strange, you mean that hospital?"

"Yeah. There's a ward against something placed there. It seems like another magician was meddling with things. Of course, the target wasn't Ryougi Shiki. If it was, they wouldn't have held off for two years."

It was a whopper of a lie, but the confident way in which she spoke meant he didn't suspect a thing.



Overall, I don't think he actually considered breaking in - not seriously - as the whole "Can't let my employee become a criminal" thing is rather comical. He felt anxious about it, but having Touko check up on her was more than enough to calm him down.