PDA

View Full Version : Was including HF True a good decision by Nasu?



Pages : [1] 2

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 10:49 AM
Should Nasu have left HF Normal as HF True as originally planned?

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 10:50 AM
Where's the poll?

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 10:51 AM
I forgot that we can now make threads like that without having them go to the shitter by post 5.

God bless the mod team.

terraablaze
June 24th, 2013, 10:51 AM
Still making it because that's how poll threads work. It's weird.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 10:53 AM
I made three different versions of the same question to confuse people. I hope everyone is confused.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 10:54 AM
My vote is a clear no.

I think Shirou should have been rewarded in the end for what he did with at least what he tried to save, the people he cared about, with a price to pay.
HF Normal comes closer to this than HF True does, but HF Normal Sakura suddenly loses her mental fortitude ranking of over 9000 so it all goes to shit in the end. It does not make for a good finale of the game (better than LE, yes, but that's not hard).

Even just Rider being dead and a slightly more melancholic tone of HF True would probably have tipped it.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 10:57 AM
I liked it because I self-insert into Shirou and his and his harem's powerlevels are at their highest in HF True.

It was too sappy, but like bustah said HF normal just isn't a strong end for the expansive narrative.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 10:58 AM
I liked it because I self-insert into Shirou and his and his harem's powerlevels are at their highest in HF True.
Don't remind me.

"HEY I KNOW HE RISKED HIS LIFE AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THAT ONE GIRL HE LOVED SO MUCH BUT LET'S JUST THROW IN HAREM IMPLICATIONS AT THE END FOR THE KICKS!"

terraablaze
June 24th, 2013, 10:59 AM
I chose Yes because you people keep insisting on making binary choices. I think if Heaven's Feel True didn't exist Nasu would have put more thought and care into Heaven's Feel Normal so it wouldn't have to be melancholy to the extent it starts to get silly to contrast better with the True ending we got.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:00 AM
I chose Yes because you people keep insisting on making binary choices.

A man chooses. A slave hedges.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 11:01 AM
HF true had Illya's great scene, plus living Dolls are cool so dollShirou is cool.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:02 AM
hmm, trolly as the topic is...let me think a moment. My snap judgement says HF true is a good thing because even if you ignore the fact that normal is way to angsty and I would prefer a better end for sakura, we learn a lot about the HF and Ilya's power when she uses the dress of heaven.


but....I will admit there is a defensible point to be made that if nasu had not pushed true into it, you wouldnt have people trying to make statements about the message nasu was trying to convey when he began writing FS/N was that shirou's ideals lead to tragedy and that he should abandon them, or points about how growing out of your idealism leads to happiness. That's fanon to a tragically large amount of people but keeping in mind with how HF was supposed to end when the FS/N theme was being created, I can understand people who thing HF true made an already difficult to understand story principle even more clouded.

terraablaze
June 24th, 2013, 11:04 AM
HF true had Illya's great scene, plus living Dolls are cool so dollShirou is cool.

While that was nice, part of me wants to say if we're going back in time and reversing design decisions he made that would have made it into the Illya route. Perhaps a bit out of the scope of this poll.

@Tobias
well I recommended it simply because I see people talk about how much they prefer Heaven's Feel normal and I wanted to see whether it was actually as many as I thought.

Edit: plus you just know he was going to explain everything anyway, so I don't think the extra info is really a point in the True end's favor.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:07 AM
I dont think so, by the time he made the choice to sub in HF true he was already about done with writing fate. fate and UBW were done and he was 2/3rds of the way through HF, unless I am remembering wrong, so ilya's route was very likely already scrapped before he decided to write in HF true. so without that ending we probably wouldn't have seen ilya utilize the dress of heaven.

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:07 AM
Both endings of HF kinda suck.
Normal has the plus of someone relevant actually dying; namely Shirou finally running out of plot ammo and dying a heroic death for the sake of the one he loved. But then it's kinda ruined by how Sakura completely squanders his sacrifice and wastes her life becoming a crazy cat lady.
True has its pluses - Shirou VS Kirei fight and Ilya's role, but then it's more or less ruined by the unbelievably saccharine second half. The harem subtext and the lack of visible psychological trauma in any of the characters didn't sit well with me.

Note: this is all just a subjective personal opinion. Don't start a shirstorm over it.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:09 AM
hmm, trolly as the topic is...let me think a moment. My snap judgement says HF true is a good thing because even if you ignore the fact that normal is way to angsty and I would prefer a better end for sakura, we learn a lot about the HF and Ilya's power when she uses the dress of heaven.


but....I will admit there is a defensible point to be made that if nasu had not pushed true into it, you wouldnt have people trying to make statements about the message nasu was trying to convey when he began writing FS/N was that shirou's ideals lead to tragedy and that he should abandon them, or points about how growing out of your idealism leads to happiness. That's fanon to a tragically large amount of people but keeping in mind with how HF was supposed to end when the FS/N theme was being created, I can understand people who thing HF true made an already difficult to understand story principle even more clouded.
On the other side you get people that say his ideal is the only right way to live though, ignoring the fact that his wish from day 1 was just being happy. Just that he projected that fact onto Kiritsugu even made him adopt that ideal.

In that way HF is needed as-is to show that the ideal itself isn't inseparable from Shirou, that he can lead a happy life without it, just as much as Zero is needed to show that the ideal in itself, without the impulse for compassion and especially personal happiness is going to destroy him. A point that incidentally the Fate route brought up the most (HF cut on it with Mind of Steel while UBW was too busy with the actual impossibility of it) but in my opinion is only brought across well in Zero.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 11:10 AM
I voted no but I can see the logic behind the idea Nasu would've wrote a less depressing normal end if it was to a proper end. As it stands normal is way too depressing, watching Shirou go through all that shit for Sakura and for Sakura to have a depressing life afterwards is heartbreaking.

Lycodrake
June 24th, 2013, 11:10 AM
Sparks Liner High was the best decision Nasu made for HF.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 11:11 AM
While that was nice, part of me wants to say if we're going back in time and reversing design decisions he made that would have made it into the Illya route. Perhaps a bit out of the scope of this poll.

@Tobias
well I recommended it simply because I see people talk about how much they prefer Heaven's Feel normal and I wanted to see whether it was actually as many as I thought.

Edit: plus you just know he was going to explain everything anyway, so I don't think the extra info is really a point in the True end's favor.

speaking of design decisions, for an outfit specifically designed for heroic sacrifices, it kind of baffled me how fanservicey the heavenly dress is (cleavage to the belly, garter belts...)

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:11 AM
Sparks Liner High was the best decision Nasu made for HF.

Except for it providing basically no closure?

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 11:11 AM
Sparks Liner High was the best decision Nasu made for HF.
Nice idea, shit execution. There I said it. I know you all think it when Shirou is brought up in a powerlevel debate.

terraablaze
June 24th, 2013, 11:11 AM
Normal end is actually a pretty good end all around when you think about Sakura actually getting to live after Heaven's Feel. She even gets to hang out with her sister, she still has everyone at the archery club, and Taiga. It's really only the bit where she then decides to squander her life that makes it stupid. But True End is also stupid so what can you do.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:12 AM
speaking of design decisions, for an outfit specifically designed for heroic sacrifices, it kind of baffled me how fanservicey the heavenly dress is (cleavage to the belly, garter belts...)

sasuga

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:13 AM
hmm, trolly as the topic is...

Other than my own special brand of inconsistent retardation how is this trolly? Terra was curious in another thread so Kelnish made it happen.


Also a point of order; Kotomine fight and Zouken's true demise are both totes in HF Normal if you aren't a terrible terrible person.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:13 AM
On the other side you get people that say his ideal is the only right way to live though, ignoring the fact that his wish from day 1 was just being happy. Just that he projected that fact onto Kiritsugu even made him adopt that ideal.

In that way HF is needed as-is to show that the ideal itself isn't inseparable from Shirou, that he can lead a happy life without it, just as much as Zero is needed to show that the ideal in itself, without the impulse for compassion and especially personal happiness is going to destroy him. A point that incidentally the Fate route brought up the most (HF cut on it with Mind of Steel while UBW was too busy with the actual impossibility of it) but in my opinion is only brought across well in Zero.


I am not sure you got what I am saying, or at the least, that's not really the point I was trying to make. The complaint I have on HF true was that it gives people a lopsided view on what the original intention of fate was.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Sparks Liner High was the best decision Nasu made for HF.
When I take over the forum I will make it a bannable offence to say that some bad end is BEST END XDDDDD

Anyway about HF's endings, I dunno. I don't like True much but Normal on its own would be a depressing way to end the game, so I guess HF True is better than no other ending at all?

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Other than my own special brand of inconsistent retardation how is this trolly? Terra was curious in another thread so Kelnish made it happen.



I felt like the timing of it being posted right after the LE thread died down made it look like someone was trying to start a fight up again. you will note I eventually decided to take the thread at face value since I posted a response as opposed to for example, ignoring or locking it.

Lycodrake
June 24th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Nice idea, shit execution. There I said it. I know you all think it when Shirou is brought up in a powerlevel debate.
Oh right I forgot that this is GD, and everyone in GD is obsessed with p0w3rlvlz.
Carry on. =P

When I take over the forum I will make it a bannable offence to say that some bad end is BEST END XDDDDD
Most unimpressive. :|

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Except for it providing basically no closure?

Yeah. It only provided closure for Saber, and while as a Saber fan I do like it because of that, I also think that it's horrible as an ending for a route.
I mean, it's a Bad End! Rin will almost certainly die after losing the nerve to kill Sakura and then it's apocalypse.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:16 AM
When I take over the forum I will make it a bannable offence to say that some bad end is BEST END XDDDDD

Anyway about HF's endings, I dunno. I don't like True much but Normal on its own would be a depressing way to end the game, so I guess HF True is better than no other ending at all?

I dont care what you say, some tsukihime bad ends freaking rock.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 11:17 AM
Okay, okay, I'll make an exception for hotel shark.

But only for hotel shark.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:18 AM
I am not sure you got what I am saying, or at the least, that's not really the point I was trying to make. The complaint I have on HF true was that it gives people a lopsided view on what the original intention of fate was.

Talked a bit around you, yeah. Just needed to get this out before people that call HF Shirou a murdering sociopath show up again. Because there are as much people that think the ideal is inherently self-destructive as there are people that think the ideal is inherently good, brushing away the self-destructive aspects of it because...I don't know, Gurren Lagann logic.

The ideal in itself is not as strictly positive as people make it out to be, a point that is often missed despite being hammered in consequently through all 3 routes. Fate in the Berserker jumping scene, UBW in the "you are the scales" scene and HF in its entirety.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:19 AM
Okay, okay, I'll make an exception for hotel shark.

But only for hotel shark.

But but... Shiki Tohno's Galleria of Murders and Dismemberment was happy fun times. Just not lolepicbestend.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:21 AM
The only end better than edgemaster Shiki killing Akiha with dialogue so edgy you can shave with it is Hisui True.

I'm sorry but it just speaks so well to my dark and troubled soul. I'm gonna listen to some Linkin Park now.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:23 AM
But but... Shiki Tohno's Galleria of Murders and Dismemberment was happy fun times. Just not lolepicbestend.

I might have added one or two myself, but hey, hotel shark was the most awesome, I feel like we should accept the compromise so we have a leg to stand on when Kota owns BL and is making us all post like shinji with wakame themed avatars.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:24 AM
I await the day with baited breath.

Because the Shark ending. Get it?

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:24 AM
Wait a second: has a Fate thread just derailed in the Tsukihime direction? Is the world about to end?

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:24 AM
Mind of Steel forevah

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:25 AM
http://i.imgur.com/lJwQaqa.gif

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:26 AM
SOME PEOPLE LIKE TSUKIHIME POLLY

terraablaze
June 24th, 2013, 11:26 AM
When I take over the forum I will make it a bannable offence to say that some bad end is BEST END XDDDDD

Anyway about HF's endings, I dunno. I don't like True much but Normal on its own would be a depressing way to end the game, so I guess HF True is better than no other ending at all?

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20368/208-HF15-17a-407.jpg

This end is peaceful in a way.
It's like Saber-chan's end in "Heavens Feel".
This is your daily reminder that Sparks Liner High is not a Bad End, even if it has a Tiger Dojo after it.

It's okay Kotonoha, I understand that as a girl you don't understand the manly beauty of two soul mates fighting to the death. It isn't even tragic beauty, it is romance condensed and sublimated to it's absolute purest form. Just think, if this had been Gen every ending would have been like this. Except Saber would have had a penis at the time. And a man's voice. And have been a man.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:26 AM
Wait a second: has a Fate thread just derailed in the Tsukihime direction? Is the world about to end?

You're thinking DDD derails.

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:28 AM
You're missing my point, Toby. I'm just surprised at the fact that a Fate thread derailed in the direction of an ancient doujin that is much, much less popular than Fate and hasn't even been read by many BLers. It's an incredibly rare occurrence.



You're thinking DDD derails.

There's no such thing.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 11:29 AM
http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20368/208-HF15-17a-407.jpg

This is your daily reminder that Sparks Liner High is not a Bad End, even if it has a Tiger Dojo after it.

It's okay Kotonoha, I understand that as a girl you don't understand the manly beauty of two soul mates fighting to the death. It isn't even tragic beauty, it is romance condensed and sublimated to it's absolute purest form. Just think, if this had been Gen every ending would have been like this. Except Saber would have had a penis at the time. And a man's voice. And have been a man.
Not in ending list, not a real end.

GEN AIN'T RUNNIN THIS SHOW

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 11:29 AM
SOME PEOPLE LIKE TSUKIHIME POLLY
Tsukihime>F/SN. Only thing Fate has over Tsukihime is Kotomine and Cu Chulainn. Arc>Saber, Kohaku>Sakura and Ciel>Rin and Akiha more than makes up for the way Kotomine>Nrvnqsr and Cu>Arihiko.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:29 AM
Mind of Steel forevah

Mind of Steel is redundant. Gen made a better story out of it that gets the same point across.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:29 AM
I personally would've had a combination of both endings. Take out the happy, derpy, harem crap from HF True and replace it with Sakura going emo for the rest of her life and Ilya dying in front of her father's grave, and keep Shirou vs. Kotomine, since to me this was the highlight of the route.

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:30 AM
Not in ending list, not a real end.

GEN AIN'T RUNNIN THIS SHOW

Accept it, seaweed. SLH is on equal footing with Normal and True.



Tsukihime>F/SN. Only thing Fate has over Tsukihime is Kotomine and Cu Chulainn. Arc>Saber, Kohaku>Sakura and Ciel>Rin and Akiha more than makes up for the way Kotomine>Nrvnqsr and Cu>Arihiko.

Stop posting. I do agree with Kohaku > Sakura, though.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:30 AM
Many BLers haven't read tsukihime? I thought it was down To elf and a few on the fanfic threads.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 11:32 AM
Accept it, seaweed. SLH is on equal footing with Normal and True.
Doesn't have a picture on the ending screen, not an ending, just a punishment for making the wrong choices. A glorified game-over screen.

It is you who must accept this.


Many BLers haven't read tsukihime? I thought it was down To elf and a few on the fanfic threads.
Theocrass doesn't know what Kagetsu Tohya is :(

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:33 AM
What is with the people that run this forum?!

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:34 AM
Doesn't have a picture on the ending screen, not an ending, just a punishment for making the wrong choices. A glorified game-over screen.

It is you who must accept this.


You are just mad that Saber Alter put a definite end to all those bullshit harem shenanigans by killing Rider and forcing Shirou to go all out until he turned himself into a vegetable. And at the fact that Nasu is almost as bad and enjoys drinking your tears as Gen.

Knick
June 24th, 2013, 11:34 AM
It was good only because of the Illya scene, as well as the Zouken scene personally since it added some perspective on a more or less enigmatic and shallow villain to that point.

However overall I disliked that 'happy ending', overall none of the routes really had a completely happy ending

Fate was bitter sweet (ignoring LE simply because not part of the original LN)
UBW true was not really 'happy' but more like 'upbeat', but even then you know that Shirou is still on a self destructive path due to his ideal.
UBW good... well I prefer to ignore it ever existed cause you know, generic harem ending.
HF normal clearly showed the consequences of his actions.

HF true kinda breaks away from this, making it all of them more or less get of completely free. Shirou gets a new body, Him and Sakura get to see the flowers, etc. The only one who does not get a happy ending is Saber which more or less gets ignored following it.

It just feels poorly done in all honesty.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:34 AM
GEN AIN'T RUNNIN THIS SHOW

How can you say that?

Nasu is Gen's happy alter ego. We never saw Nasu's face, his output is low enough for it to be done by Gen on the side, their works often get compared because of striking similarities and they are dere-dere for each other.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:35 AM
Tsukihime>F/SN. Only thing Fate has over Tsukihime is Kotomine and Cu Chulainn. Arc>Saber, Kohaku>Sakura and Ciel>Rin and Akiha more than makes up for the way Kotomine>Nrvnqsr and Cu>Arihiko.

If only someone had made a poll on this board somewhere to figure out which franchises people liked more... too bad we don't have an on-topic poll forum.


Mind of Steel is redundant. Gen made a better story out of it that gets the same point across.

Disagree. Shirou's decision to passively allow Sakura's death to happen, and the reaction of Ilya, Kotomine, and Rin was significantly better delivered than Kiritsugu's decision to kill his father.


Many BLers haven't read tsukihime? I thought it was down To elf and a few on the fanfic threads.

It's a little behind Fate but yeah, from what I can remember of my poll before SOMEONE made it die an awful death Tsukihime had pretty good poll forum user penetration.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:36 AM
How can you say that?

Nasu is Gen's happy alter ego. We never saw Nasu's face, his output is low enough for it to be done by Gen on the side, their works often get compared because of striking similarities and they are dere-dere for each other.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1345302514_conspiracy-keanu.jpg

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 11:39 AM
You are just mad that Saber Alter put a definite end to all those bullshit harem shenanigans by killing Rider and forcing Shirou to go all out until he turned himself into a vegetable. And at the fact that Nasu is almost as bad and enjoys drinking your tears as Gen.
Polly, I would never be mad about Rider dying in HF.

She should have died in HF True, would have made everything way less harem. (Especially with HA's implication that she mindrapes Shirou in his sleep wut)

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:41 AM
But she had to stay around! Nasu couldn't have killed a character with such an important role and a rich and complex personality!
And by rich and complex personality I mean giant breasts.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 11:41 AM
Look at those huge... character traits.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:42 AM
I feel like she has too developed of a character.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:42 AM
A truly three-dimensional character

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:42 AM
Polly, I would never be mad about Rider dying in HF.

She should have died in HF True, would have made everything way less harem. (Especially with HA's implication that she mindrapes Shirou in his sleep wut)

len: ...*


*translation: amateur.

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:42 AM
Look at those huge... character traits.

Her morals and convictions are absolutely massive, indeed.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:43 AM
You're forgetting her amazing backstory.

(I don't actually like Rider nor is she that hot compared to the other waifus. God you're the worst character.)

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 11:43 AM
The only one who does not get a happy ending is Saber which more or less gets ignored following it.

It just feels poorly done in all honesty.
This is the times I'm happy Mike is gone because someone can actually make a post supporting Sakura(in a sense) without being tainted by his BS.

Anyway fuck Saber. Its not her route, so just fuck her. Sakura wasn't even mentioned in the other routes. Rider and Emiya have like one halfway decent ending. Medea gets fucked over by all the true ends, same with Cu. All the people who weren't complete assholes got screwed over, Saberfags should accept she gets screwed over in one route.

She doesn't need to have all her problems resolved in everything or else we end up with redundancy and taking up space in routes which don't have the time to deal with it.

DezoPenguin
June 24th, 2013, 11:43 AM
However overall I disliked that 'happy ending', overall none of the routes really had a completely happy ending

UBW good... well I prefer to ignore it ever existed cause you know, generic harem ending.



So none of the other routes have a purely happy ending, except for the 50% of the other routes that actually have an even sappier and consequence-free happy ending, which you choose to ignore because you don't like it either. (And hell, if you spackle LE onto the end of Fate, all three routes get a happy ending.)

So the results of the polls are, a large percentage of people hate happy endings?

(Also, HF True is my favorite ending of the bunch, because I am not an angst fetishist. And dead Saber and dead Illya and Shirou and Sakura having to spend the rest of his life managing the new body thing seems adequate for me in terms of personal cost.)

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:46 AM
You're forgetting her amazing backstory.

(I don't actually like Rider nor is she that hot compared to the other waifus. God you're the worst character.)

Who is your Fate waifu, Buster?



(Also, HF True is my favorite ending of the bunch, because I am not an angst fetishist. And dead Saber and dead Illya and Shirou and Sakura having to spend the rest of his life managing the new body thing seems adequate for me in terms of personal cost.)

If we view HF route on its own, disregarding what we know from previous two routes, none of the readers has enough reasons to give two shits about Saber so her dying is cool. Ilya gets a nice touching ending so it's not that bad either.
And I feel really sorry for Shirou and Sakura for having to have rabid sex every night to keep his doll body functioning. Such a tormenting existence.

I'm just joking here. You opinion is perfectly valid and I'm just poking fun at you a little. :)

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:46 AM
Her morals and convictions are absolutely massive, indeed.

I have always felt there were at least two good reasons to like rider and wish she got more...exposure.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:46 AM
I like happy endings if they fit the tone.

Fate route could have had a completely happy instead of a bittersweet ending but don't overwrite my bittersweet ending with a good one when it was the best thing about the route. :(

And in HF it just completely tilts the tone.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 11:47 AM
I have always felt there were at least two good reasons to like rider and wish she got more...exposure.
She likes books and racing?

Lycodrake
June 24th, 2013, 11:47 AM
Who is your Fate waifu, Buster?
All the MuvLuv Betas, Polly. All of them.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:48 AM
Who is your Fate waifu, Buster?

I can choose between a slut, a crossdresser and perfection.

GIVE ME SOME TIME TO THINK HERE

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 11:49 AM
In my mind, HF Normal is a natural end to the theme of devoted love between Shirou and Sakura. It doesn't matter that it's bittersweet, nor that it doesn't conform to the fairytale-ending standards. The theme is there: "We have loved and suffered, we have lost and triumphed, and nothing changes that". For me, love in HF Normal is transcedental, and I think that is portrayed well.

Now, HF True can be interpreted as a "happily ever after" add-on. But I think it ties wonderfully to the theme of F/SN being a story of infinite possibilities. Shirou could have died in that cavern, destroying the Grail. But there is Kotomine and Zouken, and there is Ilya. With Kirei dies the last shade of the 4th Heaven's Feel, which defined Shirou's life. Zouken's final decease similarly exorcises the horrors of Sakura's past and unshackles her from it. Ilya gives Shirou a chance to live, and so validates his choices up to that moment. Indeed, Ilya's love rewarded Shirou's love, and so thematically ties the route together.

So I guess I like both endings. Except HF True!Rider, it could have done without her.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 11:49 AM
Sakura wasn't even mentioned in the other routes


http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20113/5-F-Epi-007.jpg

Sakura is busy visiting Shinji, so she's been showing up at my place only on the weekends.

How does it feel to be wrong?

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:49 AM
Tohsaka isn't a slut?

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:50 AM
She was bleeding so she's pure.

...I think.

Fuck, don't let me burn my merch, this shit costs a ton.

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 11:51 AM
I have always felt there were at least two good reasons to like rider and wish she got more...exposure.

...did you just make a funny joke Tobias?

Wow. First a Fate thread derailing towards Tsuki, and now this? The world really is going to end, is it?

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:55 AM
She was bleeding so she's pure.

...I think.

Fuck, don't let me burn my merch, this shit costs a ton.

Bit of a Madonna-whore complex going on there, Bust?

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 11:56 AM
It is the only path.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 11:59 AM
Rin was virgin yes. Though for what it's worth I am reasonably sure she had been giving serious thought to having sex with him before it became a survival requirement.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 11:59 AM
It is the only path.

http://imageshack.us/a/img821/5827/screenshot20121017at702.png

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 12:00 PM
It's funny because only one of those things is canon.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:00 PM
How does it feel to be wrong?
Bad. I forgot about all that important stuff she did in Fate and UBW.

I wonder if there is anyone in F/SN that people haven't shipped Rin with?

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 12:02 PM
Rin was virgin yes. Though for what it's worth I am reasonably sure she had been giving serious thought to having sex with him before it became a survival requirement.

Nah, Rin wanted Shirou's penis ever since she saw him jump over that bar. Because BAR makes even the most independent of women crave Shirou's dick. /joking in case anyone wonders

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:04 PM
Nah, Rin wanted Shirou's penis ever since she saw him jump over that bar. Because BAR makes even the most independent of women crave Shirou's dick.
Is this a joke? Cause I'm starting to get scared Polly actually believes that women are completely asexual and all female sexuality is created through male pressure.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:05 PM
It's funny because I think with Rin, compared to Sakura or Saber this was actually the reason. She's never really that DEEPLY AND MADLY IN LOVE with him, it's pretty much just a crush that starts to get more serious.

Well, a bit anyway.

Lycodrake
June 24th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Because BAR makes even the most independent of women crave Shirou's dick.
Rin is independent woman? When was this? :p
I mean besides post-Fate route.

DezoPenguin
June 24th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Bad. I forgot about all that important stuff she did in Fate and UBW.

I wonder if there is anyone in F/SN that people haven't shipped Rin with?

Zouken, maybe?

...No, Dark Sakura ships Rin with Zouken in canon, so that's covered.

I don't think I've ever seen Rin shipped with Ruby. Someone should write that.

Mcjon01
June 24th, 2013, 12:06 PM
I personally would've had a combination of both endings. Take out the happy, derpy, harem crap from HF True and replace it with Sakura going emo for the rest of her life and Ilya dying in front of her father's grave, and keep Shirou vs. Kotomine, since to me this was the highlight of the route.
You can get Shirou vs Kotomine with the Normal End. You just have to see the True End first, which adds a choice after the fight that lets you pick which ending you want.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Is this a joke? Cause I'm starting to get scared Polly actually believes that women are completely asexual and all female sexuality is created through male pressure.
Strong independent women don't want dick. dont need no man

DezoPenguin
June 24th, 2013, 12:07 PM
It's funny because I think with Rin, compared to Sakura or Saber this was actually the reason. She's never really that DEEPLY AND MADLY IN LOVE with him, it's pretty much just a crush that starts to get more serious.

Well, a bit anyway.

...Actually, that makes the most sense. She's a high-school kid. High-school kids have crushes. Except in Twilight, where they instantly fall deeply and madly in twoo wuv at first glance.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 12:08 PM
sasuga

come on seriously. Look at the CG's, that thing is more fanservicey than the dress Caster put on Saber.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 12:08 PM
Hmmm, if Ufotable did eventually decide to animate a HF adaptation, which ending would you prefer they went with?

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 12:09 PM
Nah, Rin wanted Shirou's penis ever since she saw him jump over that bar. Because BAR makes even the most independent of women crave Shirou's dick. /joking in case anyone wonders

.

Lycodrake
June 24th, 2013, 12:09 PM
Hmmm, if Ufotable did eventually decide to animate a HF adaptation, which ending would you prefer they went with?
Sparks Liner High.
Is this not obvious enough.

.
pffft, Polly, no one reads *and* responds to black text. :p

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:11 PM
Hmmm, if Ufotable did eventually decide to animate a HF adaptation, which ending would you prefer they went with?

Prefer? Normal, only to see the fires when people that started with Zero and only watch the anime call UBW and Fate baby-tier pandering shit.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 12:11 PM
It's funny because I think with Rin, compared to Sakura or Saber this was actually the reason. She's never really that DEEPLY AND MADLY IN LOVE with him, it's pretty much just a crush that starts to get more serious.

Well, a bit anyway.

Pretty sure I did a blog post on this way back when, but that's kind of what I was getting at. She had a crush on him pre fate and liked what she was seeing during UBW. Things just got flash forwarded due to plot required sex.

not that I am complaining, I fully agree with shirou who said "if I don't get to see her naked I should kill myself"

hero boy occasionally says what we are all thinking.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 12:11 PM
I've actually been going through this in my head, and have wondered whether it would be possible to morph SLH, HF True and Normal into one "grand finale" or something. Granted, they'd have to over-wank Shirou into oblivion for this to work.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:12 PM
.
That was done after I quoted you. Either put the blacktext in at the start or be prepared to be seen as a fool for eternity.

Kuradora
June 24th, 2013, 12:12 PM
Sparks Liner High.
Is this not obvious enough.


"Seibaaaaaaah!"*Cuts to black. Rolls credits*

Whelp. Ending's done.

Polly
June 24th, 2013, 12:12 PM
I've actually been going through this in my head, and have wondered whether it would be possible to morph SLH, HF True and Normal into one "grand finale" or something. Granted, they'd have to over-wank Shirou into oblivion for this to work.

No because SLH says "no".



That was done after I quoted you. Either put the blacktext in at the start or be prepared to be seen as a fool for eternity.

If you look carefully you will see that my edit was made one minute before your post. Jerk

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:12 PM
I like true better because it was considerably more badass, and the way Shirou projected Excalibur through sheer will at the end was hardcore as fuck.

Don't care what anyone says about that otherwise, especially you eddyak. No smart ass Esca Libre comments, please and thank you.

DezoPenguin
June 24th, 2013, 12:13 PM
I true better because it was considerably more badass, and the way Shirou projected Excalibur through sheer will at the end was hardcore as fuck.


...That was Normal where he did that.

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 12:13 PM
Hmmm, if Ufotable did eventually decide to animate a HF adaptation, which ending would you prefer they went?

HF True, maximum kuruu~

Or they could go down HF Normal, and when they reach cat-lady Sakura the narrator goes all "But if fate took a different turn...", and they flashback to Shirou standing before the Grail, only now Kotomine crashes the party.

Or something.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 12:14 PM
I like true better because it was considerably more badass, and the way Shirou projected Excalibur through sheer will at the end was hardcore as fuck.

Don't care what anyone says about that otherwise, especially you eddyak. No smart ass Esca Libre comments, please and thank you.

quoted so he can't edit later.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 12:14 PM
He defeats Saber without over-exerting himself to the point of death and continues on to kick Kotomine's ass.....on second though this is starting to sound like some adolescent fan function-product of an adolescent mind I suppose.

Siriel
June 24th, 2013, 12:16 PM
and continues on to kick Kotomine's ass....

We did not read the same fight.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:16 PM
If you look carefully you will see that my edit was made one minute before your post. Jerk
Still too late. Either post with blacktext already there or go "oh I thought the joke was obvious. Blackfield is a tard"(its still not too late to try this).

Also Esca Libre is hard as all fucks. He can even fail project something he can't project and then blow shit up. That's more hardcore than just projecting a sword he can project and swinging it.

And also lets all laugh at Blackstone.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:17 PM
It was Excalibur Image.

It has a name now guys.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 12:17 PM
We did not read the same fight.

He had a brief moment of a vicious counter-attack, but yeah, I need to rephrase that.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 12:17 PM
"Seibaaaaaaah!"*Cuts to black. Rolls credits*

Whelp. Ending's done.

I would like SLH as a DVD bonus OVA.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 12:19 PM
It was Excalibur Image.

It has a name now guys.
Woah, now I realize why that was put in CCC.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:21 PM
You're a bit slow.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:21 PM
...That was Normal where he did that.

Pretty sure it was true, and in the "normal" ending Ilya stopped him before he could use it. What with the Dress of Heaven and whatnot.

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 12:21 PM
Don't remind me.

"HEY I KNOW HE RISKED HIS LIFE AND EVERYONE ELSE ON THAT ONE GIRL HE LOVED SO MUCH BUT LET'S JUST THROW IN HAREM IMPLICATIONS AT THE END FOR THE KICKS!"


You thought there were harem implications?
Rider clearly doesn't seem to be going after Shirou, there was more sexual tension between her and Rin than any harem implications. Even Rin still having feelings for Shirou didn't really go anywhere, and Sakura laughed it off even when it was implied, with no haremish "you making eyes at my man, nee-san?" stuff.

As for HF Normal, well, Sakura obviously blamed herself, and convinced herself that he would return because of that guilt, but the text plainly does say that she started getting closer with people on her own in her later years, even teaching herself magecraft and then passing it on to her grandniece who ended up being the Tohsakas 7th(8th) head (although I do wonder why her parents or Rin aren't teaching her, but the implications of granny Sakura and her student are too cute and heartwarming, so I let it pass). All in all, Sakura went through some shit, may not be entirely mentally stable, but ended her life peacefully, even if she never really forgave herself about Shirou. So I would have taken that as the only ending if that was how the dice rolled, even if it made me sad.

As for HF True, I never really saw the need for it to be more melancholic, we got a majority of the info on how things happened, but it would probably have done better to get the info about all the stuff that transpired from Shirou and Sakura's viewpoint, but I saw what he wanted to do by having Rin open and end the game as the Obi-Wan role she has(I will probably write my view of what happened in that gap and beyond anyway, because it's interesting). Also it was the fact that Sakura even wanted anything to do with magecraft after all that and the fact that she helped to rebuild Shirou and that he in a sense is forced to rely on someone else that touched me in a way. It felt more like a "we haven't forgotten, but we are moving on", just like how pretty much the rest of the ends worked, and why "New Dawn" was used for them.

ZZ-3000
June 24th, 2013, 12:23 PM
I want to ship Rin and Rider just to piss Buster off.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 12:25 PM
You thought there were harem implications?
Rider clearly doesn't seem to be going after Shirou
She drinks his blood in his sleep behind Sakura's back and the HA H-scene that's implied to be post-HF shows us exactly what that entails (hint: dream sex)

So not really harem so much as "she rapes him".

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:31 PM
We are referring to how things originally were right, before Nasu switched things around?

- - - Updated - - -


quoted so he can't edit later.

I do not follow. We are talking about how it was originally, right?

- - - Updated - - -


Still too late. Either post with blacktext already there or go "oh I thought the joke was obvious. Blackfield is a tard"(its still not too late to try this).

Also Esca Libre is hard as all fucks. He can even fail project something he can't project and then blow shit up. That's more hardcore than just projecting a sword he can project and swinging it.

And also lets all laugh at Blackstone.

Go trip and fall in a ditch, BlackField-kun.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 12:31 PM
We are referring to how things originally were right, before Nasu switched things around?

- - - Updated - - -



I do not follow. We are talking about how it was originally, right?


Originally is the one where shirou Excalibur image's the grail, dies, and Sakura waits forever. This is called HF normal. Where Ilya saves shirou with the dress of heaven is the one Nasu added later, and is HF true.

Mcjon01
June 24th, 2013, 12:32 PM
We are referring to how things originally were right, before Nasu switched things around?
He didn't switch things around so much as he let the story write itself away from his original plan, then included the original idea anyway as the normal end.

The way you say it makes it sound like he'd written normal, included true as an afterthought, then arbitrarily switched which was which.

Which is how food liked to frame it, granted, but food really liked to troll.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:33 PM
She drinks his blood in his sleep behind Sakura's back and the HA H-scene that's implied to be post-HF shows us exactly what that entails (hint: dream sex)

So not really harem so much as "she rapes him".
If doujins taught me something it's that it's not rape if a girl does it.
...or a man does it for that matter, as long as she gets the right facial expression.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:34 PM
Originally is the one where shirou Excalibur image's the grail, dies, and Sakura waits forever. This is called HF normal. Where Ilya saves shirou with the dress of heaven is the one Nasu added later, and is HF true.


He didn't switch things around so much as he let the story write itself away from his original plan, then included the original idea anyway as the normal end.

The way you say it makes it sound like he'd written normal, included true as an afterthought, then arbitrarily switched which was which.

Which is how food liked to frame it, granted, but food really liked to troll.

He didn't? I thought he did.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 12:35 PM
That's because you drank food's kool-aide he made for the easily fooled.

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 12:37 PM
She drinks his blood in his sleep behind Sakura's back and the HA H-scene that's implied to be post-HF shows us exactly what that entails (hint: dream sex)

So not really harem so much as "she rapes him".


That isn't really a harem though, that is Rider getting her kicks by sucking people's blood, which she implies she does to people to Rin anyway.

That and the time difference. The Sakura clone Rider uses had short hair, meaning it would be pretty early on since we know Sakura grows her hair long after HF. That, and if we measure it up, this would be before he got the spare body and all that, so he probably isn't able to do any projection shenanigans ).

That scene was really odd now that I think of it.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:41 PM
That's because you drank food's kool-aide he made for the easily fooled.

Outside of the trolling, I thought he was a trustworthy person.

- - - Updated - - -

Which I also don't get.

If normal is the original ending, how come it's not the true one? That's just silly.

Keyne
June 24th, 2013, 12:42 PM
Both endings of HF kinda suck.
Normal has the plus of someone relevant actually dying; namely Shirou finally running out of plot ammo and dying a heroic death for the sake of the one he loved. But then it's kinda ruined by how Sakura completely squanders his sacrifice and wastes her life becoming a crazy cat lady.
True has its pluses - Shirou VS Kirei fight and Ilya's role, but then it's more or less ruined by the unbelievably saccharine second half. The harem subtext and the lack of visible psychological trauma in any of the characters didn't sit well with me.

Note: this is all just a subjective personal opinion. Don't start a shirstorm over it.
And this, my dear, is where we agree.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 12:42 PM
I don't really like to ascribe HA scenes to things that actually happened during/post routes. The way I see it it's best to just consider them things that would/might happen if those people were in those circumstances. That in mind, if rider and Sakura spent time around shirou and rider rapes him in HA, I find it quite possible she would do so post HF because the canon willingness to do so is established

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 12:44 PM
Outside of the trolling, I thought he was a trustworthy person.

- - - Updated - - -

Which I also don't get.

If normal is the original ending, how come it's not the true one? That's just silly.



Because he added other things while writing both? It wasn't a switch, though? That would be like saying the manuscript he wrote in high school is the "true" story of Fate.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:44 PM
No seriously, that's like taking the end of Star Wars and replacing it with something else suddenly.

You know, like saying Luke Skywalker actually joined the dark side in ROTJ and calling it the true ending.

RacingeR
June 24th, 2013, 12:45 PM
I really dislike HF. Just... making it clear for if there was a single person in the whole forum who did not know that already (lol).

I dislike both endings as well (taking the endings by themselves, ignoring the stuff that gets added if you go the HF True route like the badass fight scenes and Ilya's sacrifice). They both felt like they were going at the extremes and did not fit very well. I like HF Normal way better than true because HF Normal managed to evoke some kind of emotion on me, while I remained poker faced during the whole of HF True. Disregarding that I don't think that HF!Shirou deserves a happy ending, the fact that it was all full rainbows and sunshine, nobody showed any signs of trauma or psychological problems (or character growth), and everything apart from HAPPY got handwaved away or ignored...

Yeah, I don't think HF True was all that well written. I would have preferred for Nasu to actually concentrate more on HF Normal and make it better than to just write an end that goes to the other extreme. Cause at the end, neither gave me any real sense of closure because of too many things left in the air (and the stupidity of Sakura deciding to squander her life away during a long time at the very least, in HF Normal, did not sit all that well with me).

And yes, I know it is a subjective opinion influenced by my dislike of the route as a whole.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 12:46 PM
That isn't really a harem though, that is Rider getting her kicks by sucking people's blood, which she implies she does to people to Rin anyway.

That and the time difference. The Sakura clone Rider uses had short hair, meaning it would be pretty early on since we know Sakura grows her hair long after HF. That, and if we measure it up, this would be before he got the spare body and all that, so he probably isn't able to do any projection shenanigans ).

That scene was really odd now that I think of it.
"People" is Shirou though. At least I hope she's not mass-raping :(

I guess you could make a case for the scene just taking place in some weird alternate universe, but Sakura and Shirou do seem to be going out.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:47 PM
I don't know about mass rape, doesn't Rin say she goes out at night drinking blood to sustain herself?

You know. "Drinking blood".

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 12:48 PM
Nothing about going out at night, just the fact that she is "drinking blood" and making sure Sakura doesn't notice.

Yeah, "drinking blood".

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:51 PM
Because he added other things while writing both? It wasn't a switch, though? That would be like saying the manuscript he wrote in high school is the "true" story of Fate.

Yes, but that manuscript is the original and if Type-Moon has ever taught me anything it's that the original is always better.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:52 PM
Wait some people think there was no character progression in HF? Or even just the HF true ending? I suppose this is more understandable than thinking Gilgamesh is a nice guy, just.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Where are you getting that from?

Mcjon01
June 24th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Outside of the trolling, I thought he was a trustworthy person.

- - - Updated - - -

Which I also don't get.

If normal is the original ending, how come it's not the true one? That's just silly.
It wasn't the original ending, it was how he originally conceived the route should end before he wrote anything. We're talking, like, plotting out a skeleton of events in his head stage. It wasn't even a fleshed out ending, basically just "Shirou dies, Sakura cries".

And then the True/Normal dynamic cropped up when he actually tried to write the story, because the story wouldn't let him end it by shitting all over everybody, because the overall tone of the route was way more optimistic than he had expected.

Food pretended to be a robot unable to understand the metaphor of a story taking on a life of its own in the author's mind chiefly so he could spin an interpretation where HF True is a fanservice tack-on in order to antagonize Mike, as food was wont to do.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:54 PM
Well, since my world has been turned upside down recently. I will have to say normal, the one where Shirou dies, would be better as true.

RacingeR
June 24th, 2013, 12:54 PM
Wait some people think there was no character progression in HF? Or even just the HF true ending? I suppose this is more understandable than thinking Gilgamesh is a nice guy, just.

I just honestly think that all HF!Shirou did was to trade obsessions. To make a random metaphor, if the other routes had his character progression/growth, it would be represented by a "|", and HF's would be a "_"

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 12:55 PM
"People" is Shirou though. At least I hope she's not mass-raping :(

I guess you could make a case for the scene just taking place in some weird alternate universe, but Sakura and Shirou do seem to be going out.


Possibly, since she says to Rin that she would never let Sakura find out, who knows?

The reason I think that particular scene doesn't really fit is because of the other implications of the end rather than Rider's intent. Though it did imply that she was doing it to get them closer together (initially), which there would be no need to in that ending.

But you are right, that and the doujins highlighting this living situation always seem to edge uncomfortably into the netorare territory, which makes me a less than happy camper. And not enough long haired Sakura, damn shame.


I just honestly think that all HF!Shirou did was to trade obsessions. To make a random metaphor, if the other routes had his character progression/growth, it would be represented by a "|", and HF's would be a "_"

If you are thinking in that direction, he never gains any character development, since he still hasn't put himself on those scales in any route, at least not yet. It is always my loved ones/people, but never himself. That was the point of Ilya's words in that final Tiger Dojo, where the people he is with would help him in that journey to love himself as a person.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 12:56 PM
It wasn't the original ending, it was how he originally conceived the route should end before he wrote anything. We're talking, like, plotting out a skeleton of events in his head stage. It wasn't even a fleshed out ending, basically just "Shirou dies, Sakura cries".

And then the True/Normal dynamic cropped up when he actually tried to write the story, because the story wouldn't let him end it by shitting all over everybody, because the overall tone of the route was way more optimistic than he had expected.

Food pretended to be a robot unable to understand the metaphor of a story taking on a life of its own in the author's mind chiefly so he could spin an interpretation where HF True is a fanservice tack-on in order to antagonize Mike, as food was wont to do.

It isn't?

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:56 PM
Where are you getting that from?
Its possible I read Jormungandr wrong considering how tired I am but Jormungandr. Though I suppose you could be talking to Blackstone.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 12:57 PM
Oh right, yeah, sorry. Carry on.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 12:58 PM
It isn't?

Operation confuse at least one person is a success.

I just wish it was someone who wasn't easily confused.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 12:59 PM
I just honestly think that all HF!Shirou did was to trade obsessions. To make a random metaphor, if the other routes had his character progression/growth, it would be represented by a "|", and HF's would be a "_"
Ah, so its the whole "I don't like his character progression, so I'll claim he didn't have any progression" trick.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:00 PM
Operation confuse at least one person is a success.

I just wish it was someone who wasn't easily confused.

Hey, I am not easily confused it's just that the endings weren't given all these labels when I played them.

Mcjon01
June 24th, 2013, 01:01 PM
It isn't?
Nope, it is a Nasu-service add-on. He wrote it just to make himself feel good. You should know by now that Nasu doesn't give a shit about the fans, that's Takeuchi. Nasu only gives a shit about the fans by proxy when Takeuchi begs on their behalf.

BlackField
June 24th, 2013, 01:02 PM
Nope, it is a Nasu-service add-on. He wrote it just to make himself feel good. You should know by now that Nasu doesn't give a shit about the fans, that's Takeuchi. Nasu only gives a shit about the fans by proxy when Takeuchi begs on their behalf.
So your telling me its Takeuchi who made Akiha get a continuation in KT?

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:02 PM
Nope, it is a Nasu-service add-on. He wrote it just to make himself feel good. You should know by now that Nasu doesn't give a shit about the fans, that's Takeuchi. Nasu only gives a shit about the fans by proxy when Takeuchi begs on their behalf.

You see, I can relate to this.

Why can't what you just said be true?

RacingeR
June 24th, 2013, 01:04 PM
Ah, so its the whole "I don't like his character progression, so I'll claim he didn't have any progression" trick.

No, it is called subjectivity and opinions. I know it is an extremely hard concept to understand, but eh.

Though I am not claiming he didn't have any progression. Just that what he did wasn't what I would call growth.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 01:05 PM
I didn't know Takeuchi was an akiha fan. I figured the only he would beg for was the chance to meido threesome.

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 01:05 PM
Nope, it is a Nasu-service add-on. He wrote it just to make himself feel good. You should know by now that Nasu doesn't give a shit about the fans, that's Takeuchi. Nasu only gives a shit about the fans by proxy when Takeuchi begs on their behalf.



I would probably say Takeuchi had more motivation than his beloved fans. XD

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 01:06 PM
No, it is called subjectivity and opinions. I know it is an extremely hard concept to understand, but eh.

Though I am not claiming he didn't have any progression. Just that what he did wasn't what I would call growth.

In support of your thesis: How did Shirou grow as a character in UBW? In Fate?

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:06 PM
Shirou did just drop the whole hero complex thing like he wasn't clinging on it for years now in HF.

Which was kind of random.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 01:09 PM
I don't know, it builds up for the entirety of the route and you later on even get choices to once again follow it (stabbing Sakura in her sleep).

The execution wasn't good but it definitely did not come out of nowhere.

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 01:14 PM
Shirou did just drop the whole hero complex thing like he wasn't clinging on it for years now in HF.

Which was kind of random.

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20357/12-HF15-01-25.jpg

Cold reality made him change his point of view as a natural development of his character in the story. Did you just click through everything that wasn't action scenes or?

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:17 PM
I expected more conflict. Instead of well, stab Sakura or give it up in it's entirety.

You know, Shirou did not need to choose between those two extremes. He could have gone somewhere in the middle with that. Focus on saving Sakura now, become an hero later or something.

- - - Updated - - -


http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20357/12-HF15-01-25.jpg

Cold reality made him change his point of view as a natural development of his character in the story. Did you just click through everything that wasn't action scenes or?

Did you completely ignore UBW and Fate? Shirou's dream is more than just a little fantasy that can be wavered away with some "reality." Archer tried that and it had the opposite effect.

Laith
June 24th, 2013, 01:17 PM
Except that one requires the other to die?

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:26 PM
Except that one requires the other to die?

Shirou could just be all selfish in HF and just become a hero later in life. The ultimatum of, "give it up forever to save Sakura" instead of just, "give it up for now because you have no choice if you want to save Sakura." Or, he could have done it SRW style and been like, "I'll save Sakura and everyone else too!" Raw, raw, fight da powah. He would have died but it would have been more in character.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part because he really didn't have a lot of problems with killing Shinji in Fate if it came down to it. I don't know. It just seems forced like, "your dream of being a hero is retarded just give it up, you retard."

Petrikow
June 24th, 2013, 01:38 PM
Nope, it is a Nasu-service add-on. He wrote it just to make himself feel good. You should know by now that Nasu doesn't give a shit about the fans, that's Takeuchi. Nasu only gives a shit about the fans by proxy when Takeuchi begs on their behalf.

Though I'm not sure how he could care about the fans opinions in this case since Fate hadn't been released and surely there were no fan opinions to care about since they didn't exist.

But maybe I shouldn't underestimate the Japanese.

- - - Updated - - -


Shirou did just drop the whole hero complex thing like he wasn't clinging on it for years now in HF.

Which was kind of random.

And Saber waited for an eternity for a boy she had spend about two weeks with.

You can't say that LOVE is "kind of random". It's LOVE!!

ITS ALL WE NEEEEEEEEEEEED

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:41 PM
And Saber waited for an eternity for a boy she had spend about two weeks with.

You can't say that LOVE is "kind of random". It's LOVE!!

ITS ALL WE NEEEEEEEEEEEED


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLEtGRUrtJo

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 01:44 PM
Shirou could just be all selfish in HF and just become a hero later in life. The ultimatum of, "give it up forever to save Sakura" instead of just, "give it up for now because you have no choice if you want to save Sakura." Or, he could have done it SRW style and been like, "I'll save Sakura and everyone else too!" Raw, raw, fight da powah. He would have died but it would have been more in character.

It was more that there was a lack of viable options in his viewpoint.
The reality of the matter was that information was kept intentionally from him, so unlike in other situations, it wasn't a simple matter of hit this really hard and you'll save everyone.

But to us readers, now that we have seen the complete picture, we see that the main problem isn't Sakura, its the Grail system, but that is after we have all the answers and a complete viewpoint, free of trolling and all that. So in the end it isn't that simple to just say that I would sacrifice myself to save everyone, you have to get all the information first, which here he didn't have any, so no easy button to solve everything.

Essentially if he had those answers, it becomes an easy romp to the cavern, and the threat of the Shadow is gone in one big explosion, since depending on when you do it, the gate wasn't open because there weren't enough souls yet.

So it wasn't him saying he wanted to give it up just because, but other options are equally unacceptable.

Nephirin
June 24th, 2013, 01:51 PM
So while I think HF Normal has its place, I wasn't really happy with it personally. I played it after playing through HF True, so when I got to it I was more or less aware that the Excaliblast would kill Shirou. But I figured that this was the route where he could save everyone. That by sacrificing himself, he could save both Illya and Sakura.

Instead, we got Sakura being sad with no mention of how Illya's life was saved by Shirou's sacrifice. It left me very peeved with the ending. Not because Shirou died, not because Sakura was sad-- but because we didn't hear a single word about the person that Shirou would have saved by making that choice.

Keyne
June 24th, 2013, 01:56 PM
And Saber waited for an eternity for a boy she had spend about two weeks with.

You can't say that LOVE is "kind of random". It's LOVE!!

ITS ALL WE NEEEEEEEEEEEED
http://i.imgur.com/V8LcjMI.jpg

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 01:58 PM
It was more that there was a lack of viable options in his viewpoint.
The reality of the matter was that information was kept intentionally from him, so unlike in other situations, it wasn't a simple matter of hit this really hard and you'll save everyone.

But to us readers, now that we have seen the complete picture, we see that the main problem isn't Sakura, its the Grail system, but that is after we have all the answers and a complete viewpoint, free of trolling and all that. So in the end it isn't that simple to just say that I would sacrifice myself to save everyone, you have to get all the information first, which here he didn't have any, so no easy button to solve everything.

Essentially if he had those answers, it becomes an easy romp to the cavern, and the threat of the Shadow is gone in one big explosion, since depending on when you do it, the gate wasn't open because there weren't enough souls yet.

So it wasn't him saying he wanted to give it up just because, but other options are equally unacceptable.

Yes, but Shirou doesn't have to give it up forever to do that. Shirou could just have had set his priorities to multiple tiers.

1. Save Sakura

2. Be a hero

3. The kitchen is my friend

I mean, even other altruistic heroes would put their loved ones or principles over the "greater good." Guys like Peter Parker, would definitely go to save Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane first before saving anyone else. If they were possessed by some evil force, Peter would work on freeing them from it rather than just killing them to ensure that more lives are saved.

A hero is not a merciless killing machine. A hero comes in many ways, shapes, and forms. You can still put your loved ones above others and be a hero.

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 02:02 PM
Yes, but Shirou doesn't have to give it up forever to do that. Shirou could just have had set his priorities to multiple tiers.

1. Save Sakura

2. Be a hero

3. The kitchen is my friend

I mean, even other altruistic heroes would put their loved ones or principles over the "greater good." Guys like Peter Parker, would definitely go to save Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane first before saving anyone else. If they were possessed by some evil force, Peter would work on freeing them from it rather than just killing them to ensure that more lives are saved.

A hero is not a merciless killing machine. A hero comes in many ways, shapes, and forms. You can still put your loved ones above others and be a hero.

It looks like you might have understood some of the morals of Fate/Stay Night after all.

Kuradora
June 24th, 2013, 02:15 PM
So while I think HF Normal has its place, I wasn't really happy with it personally. I played it after playing through HF True, so when I got to it I was more or less aware that the Excaliblast would kill Shirou. But I figured that this was the route where he could save everyone. That by sacrificing himself, he could save both Illya and Sakura.

Instead, we got Sakura being sad with no mention of how Illya's life was saved by Shirou's sacrifice. It left me very peeved with the ending. Not because Shirou died, not because Sakura was sad-- but because we didn't hear a single word about the person that Shirou would have saved by making that choice.

Rocks fall, Illya dies.

mAc Chaos
June 24th, 2013, 02:16 PM
If by saved you mean temporarily bailed her out for a year, then yes.

Keyne
June 24th, 2013, 02:16 PM
Rocks fall, Illya dies.
Grull used Cave In.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 02:18 PM
It looks like you might have understood some of the morals of Fate/Stay Night after all.

I guess. :p

Altima of the Gates
June 24th, 2013, 02:22 PM
Yes, but Shirou doesn't have to give it up forever to do that. Shirou could just have had set his priorities to multiple tiers.

1. Save Sakura

2. Be a hero

3. The kitchen is my friend

I mean, even other altruistic heroes would put their loved ones or principles over the "greater good." Guys like Peter Parker, would definitely go to save Gwen Stacy or Mary Jane first before saving anyone else. If they were possessed by some evil force, Peter would work on freeing them from it rather than just killing them to ensure that more lives are saved.

A hero is not a merciless killing machine. A hero comes in many ways, shapes, and forms. You can still put your loved ones above others and be a hero.


The question is, does he give it up forever? Does he find a medium between the two? We dunno that and cannot assume so.

That and, his first priority was finding some way to help Sakura, but he also continued to patrol the streets for answers. He didn't have some great tool to solve the problem remember, nor is he talented in magecraft like Rin. And the people who did possibly have that knowledge were saying it was hopeless. So he spent time fumbling in the dark entirely because he didn't know where to go, and his first reaction actually was that he didn't want any sacrifices. Did you forget the majority of the route was him trying to find a way to resolve pretty much everything at the same time?

As soon as he realized that Kirei probably knew more than he let on, he rushed over there, it wasn't as if he didn't try to resolve things or find those answers, he just had a time limit on it. Nor did he know Sakura was possessed, since she didn't move from her bed until way later (since if she did, her clothes would be messed up and you'd see injuries or blood). The information on the source of the matter was elusive.

Kuradora
June 24th, 2013, 02:26 PM
Grull used Cave In.

It's super-effective. 18+Loli fainted.

Keyne
June 24th, 2013, 02:35 PM
It's super-effective. 18+Loli fainted.
Grull the Dragonkiller said: Unworthy.

Kuradora
June 24th, 2013, 02:39 PM
Everything is secretly Pokemon. This is the truth of all fiction.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 02:50 PM
I can choose between a slut, a crossdresser and perfection.

GIVE ME SOME TIME TO THINK HERE

*cracks knuckles* youuu forgoooot someoooone......

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 02:53 PM
*cracks knuckles* youuu forgoooot someoooone......

It's Taiga, isn't it?

Wait no, perfection's on the list.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 02:54 PM
You shut you whore mouth.

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 02:57 PM
You might have interpreted this backwards.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 03:02 PM
I thought Tobias would be the last person to suggest that Taiga was not perfect.

- - - Updated - - -


It's Taiga, isn't it?

Wait no, perfection's on the list.


You shut you whore mouth.

Quoting this before he edits it.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 03:02 PM
Close, but not the one i meant....
He forgot the most important, most glorious Heroine, the one who makes the duo of Taiga and her complete.....Ladies and Gentlemen, the one and only!

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 03:04 PM
Ayako?

i made a pro-ayako joke, enjoy it, it will never happen again

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 03:04 PM
Close, but not the one i meant....
He forgot the most important, most glorious Heroine, the one who makes the duo of Taiga and her complete.....Ladies and Gentlemen, the one and only!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22noa7QKb1r6rbu5o1_500.jpg

Keyne
June 24th, 2013, 03:07 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22noa7QKb1r6rbu5o1_500.jpg
He meant Ilya.

RacingeR
June 24th, 2013, 03:08 PM
Close, but not the one i meant....
He forgot the most important, most glorious Heroine, the one who makes the duo of Taiga and her complete.....Ladies and Gentlemen, the one and only!

Right...

How did we forget about chibi Rin?!?

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 03:08 PM
Derp, I have been drinking. I formally retract the whore mouth statement.

(shut up, 5 o'clock somewhere)

SeiKeo
June 24th, 2013, 03:08 PM
HF true is fine, it doesn't contradict the route at all, only maybe in tone and that doesn't make it a bad idea.

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 03:08 PM
even if you fap enough to her to craft a statue out of solid semen she wont be a heroine

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 03:10 PM
He meant Ilya.

:ciel:

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 03:11 PM
Derp, I have been drinking. I formally retract the whore mouth statement.

(shut up, 5 o'clock somewhere)

http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/3901-Was-including-HF-True-a-good-decision-by-Nasu?p=1225575&viewfull=1#post1225575

Saved because you hurt my trust earlier.

Vengeance is mine.

Keyne
June 24th, 2013, 03:11 PM
even if you fap enough to her to craft a statue out of solid semen she wont be a heroine
HAHAHAHAHAH!

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 03:12 PM
even if you fap enough to her to craft a statue out of solid semen she wont be a heroine

I stood up and clapped, honest to God. Truly you are the rightful succesor.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 03:13 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22noa7QKb1r6rbu5o1_500.jpg

...well, close enough i guess.

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 03:13 PM
even if you fap enough to her to craft a statue out of solid semen she wont be a heroine


Are you sure? Only one way to be sure.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 03:14 PM
Get the lube Tobias, you will need it.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 03:14 PM
Right...

How did we forget about chibi Rin?!?

lolwhut?

IhaxlikeNoob
June 24th, 2013, 03:15 PM
Good luck, you'll need it.

Mcjon01
June 24th, 2013, 03:16 PM
Derp, I have been drinking. I formally retract the whore mouth statement.

(shut up, 5 o'clock somewhere)

Get help, Tobias. :( Daytime is for getting high on pills, not for getting drunk.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 03:17 PM
That's strange. I also had that completely backwards.

Man, there are so many revelations today.

Kotonoha
June 24th, 2013, 03:17 PM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22noa7QKb1r6rbu5o1_500.jpg
Holy shit, this is the first time I've seen Irisviel look almost attractive. It's weird.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 03:17 PM
solid semen


solid semen


solid semen

You are a sick little austrian man....

Tobias
June 24th, 2013, 03:18 PM
Get help, Tobias. :( Daytime is for getting high on pills, not for getting drunk.

It's past 12 and summer. All day is beer and bar-B-Q time.

Break
June 24th, 2013, 03:19 PM
Holy shit, this is the first time I've seen Irisviel look almost attractive. It's weird.

look at her weird forehead and try saying that again.

Zenieth
June 24th, 2013, 03:21 PM
I wonder if T shirts with Sakura's face on it and the caption "I survived the blackhole" are marketable?

Mcjon01
June 24th, 2013, 03:21 PM
It's past 12 and summer. All day is beer and bar-B-Q time.

That's a great argument and you've completely changed my viewpoint. I'm gonna go choke down some Grolsch so I can save the bottles.

Seika
June 24th, 2013, 03:30 PM
I don't know, it builds up for the entirety of the route and you later on even get choices to once again follow it (stabbing Sakura in her sleep).
Of course, because this was a better-justified Mind of Steel, you can't actually get away with it. Which irks me no end. Make a choice ... and the author says "screw you, no".

HF True itself? There's room in the story and its themes for an ending where Shirō and Sakura live, stay together and are happy. I won't fault True on that count. I will fault it on the grounds of just being a straight-up bad ending, especially for the VN as a whole. Thou shalt not write an ending for a story which fails to reflect on the story and indeed seems to be actively trying to run away from everything that just happened. Thou shalt not write an ending for the "not everyone can be saved" route which glosses over those that weren't saved (people and ideals).

Basically?

there is nothing left that reminds you of the hard cold days
This should never ever have been written.

LoyaltL
June 24th, 2013, 03:46 PM
Of course, because this was a better-justified Mind of Steel, you can't actually get away with it. Which irks me no end. Make a choice ... and the author says "screw you, no".



Yeah, this part pissed me off too. I actually did select it and then 'DEAD END' and I'm like 'I wasn't the one supposed to die there'.

One of HF's faults. Definitely.

SeiKeo
June 24th, 2013, 03:49 PM
Someone misremembering that Mind of Steel doesn't kill you?

mAc Chaos
June 24th, 2013, 03:50 PM
bad end

I3uster
June 24th, 2013, 03:51 PM
They are talking about stabbing sleeping Sakura, a more justified MoS.

SeiKeo
June 24th, 2013, 03:55 PM
WELP

this is why I shouldn't phone

Seika
June 24th, 2013, 03:56 PM
bad end

I believe it's actually called Happy End. *folds arms*

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 04:00 PM
I believe it's actually called Happy End. *folds arms*

Sakura's not happy at all

Zenieth
June 24th, 2013, 04:03 PM
How do you know? She could have been dreaming about puppies.

LoyaltL
June 24th, 2013, 04:03 PM
HF Normal End makes more sense. True End was just 'Gotta have a good ending :3'.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 04:06 PM
How do you know? She could have been dreaming about puppies.

or fish

Kelnish
June 24th, 2013, 04:26 PM
Sakura's not happy at all

Who cares about Sakura, Zouken and Kotomine were probably amped.

Also Mcjon discriminates against shift workers who, if they intend to have a nice beer after work, pretty much have to drink before noon. What a terrible man.

gwonbush
June 24th, 2013, 04:31 PM
My opinion on the HF ends is that HF Normal feels more True to me and HF True feels more Good.

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 04:32 PM
Who cares about Sakura, Zouken and Kotomine were probably amped.

Amped for what?

LoyaltL
June 24th, 2013, 04:41 PM
Amped for what?

EVULZ

Leftovers
June 24th, 2013, 04:43 PM
EVULZ

But that scenario is counterproductive towards EVULZ.

Fingolfin
June 24th, 2013, 04:57 PM
My opinion on the HF ends is that HF Normal feels more True to me and HF True feels more Good.

You see, I can understand that.

Unless I've been corrupted by watching/reading too much grimdark that I can only think of the sad endings as true.

DezoPenguin
June 24th, 2013, 05:14 PM
My opinion on the HF ends is that HF Normal feels more True to me and HF True feels more Good.

No, as Akiha has taught us, Normal is when the heroine gets brain-fried; True is when the heroine is fine and the hero makes a full recovery after nearly biting it.

Seika
June 25th, 2013, 08:03 AM
Thought.

Title: 'Was including HF True a good decision by Nasu?' - No, absolutely not.
Actual Poll: 'Should Nasu have only had HF Normal instead of adding the True ending?' - Eh, I can see a True ending being fine, it's just this True ending I don't like. And only having a Normal end for a route would be weird.

The differences confuse my robot brain and make it impossible for me to vote.

ZidanReign
June 25th, 2013, 08:05 AM
I couldn't answer the poll because the thread title mislead me

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 08:10 AM
Thought.

Title: 'Was including HF True a good decision by Nasu?' - No, absolutely not.
Actual Poll: 'Should Nasu have only had HF Normal instead of adding the True ending?' - Eh, I can see a True ending being fine, it's just this True ending I don't like. And only having a Normal end for a route would be weird.

The differences confuse my robot brain and make it impossible for me to vote.

I feel the same, but I answered "Yes" because if there were only one ending, then, as some have previously said, it would have been a bit different from the Normal End we got, and would have probably contained some elements from the True ending that would make it less angsty-depressing.
Just don't fry your circuits.

terraablaze
June 25th, 2013, 08:40 AM
Yeah, in my mind when I suggested the poll it wouldn't be you choosing between what we have now or only having the Normal End that Nasu wrote, it would be the current ends vs hypothetical Normal End (which would be called the True End) that isn't super short and simple because it's the true end and he isn't shunting off anything. Which after thinking about it is still kind of a bad poll since you don't really know what you're voting for but I guess that's why it's a thought experiment. How much faith do you have in Nasu to make a better ending if he went with his original plan and didn't give in to these so called feelings?

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 08:44 AM
When Nasu gives in he tends to write stuff that kinda sorta ruins the route the ending belongs to. See HF True and Last Episode.

Kelnish
June 25th, 2013, 08:46 AM
When Nasu gives in he tends to write stuff that kinda sorta ruins the route the ending belongs to. See HF True and Last Episode.

Story for the Evening so bad.

I3uster
June 25th, 2013, 09:17 AM
Story for the Evening so bad.

oh gawd dont remind me

Kotonoha
June 25th, 2013, 09:22 AM
story for the evening has Tsukasa you shut your whore mouths

While Akiha is sitting around waiting for her hair to grow Tsukasa's gonna get in there and woo Shiki, that is what I believe.

Kelnish
June 25th, 2013, 09:25 AM
story for the evening has Tsukasa you shut your whore mouths

While Akiha is sitting around waiting for her hair to grow Tsukasa's gonna get in there and woo Shiki, that is what I believe.

You have a weird self-insert.

I liked story for the evening, sarcastic post was sarcastic. >.>

Kotonoha
June 25th, 2013, 09:31 AM
I cannot self-insert on Tsukasa, I cannot reach her level of perfection.

I3uster
June 25th, 2013, 09:37 AM
LE and HF True fucked with the tone and message of their routes but at least they didnt bore me to tears.

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 09:40 AM
I dunno; that first half of LE was just a long boring recap of Fate.

I3uster
June 25th, 2013, 09:41 AM
It had cool filters. Dont you like filters?

Kotonoha
June 25th, 2013, 09:42 AM
If the details of Fate are extremely clear in your memory after finishing UBW and HF then your memory is better than mine.

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 09:43 AM
It had cool filters. Dont you like filters?

Well, half the pics were grainy and the other half too zoomed-in. Not sure what the filters have to do with it.



If the details of Fate are extremely clear in your memory after finishing UBW and HF then your memory is better than mine.

I'm a med student. A good memory is kinda a requirement.

I3uster
June 25th, 2013, 09:43 AM
LAST TIME ON FATE STAY NIGHT

Kotonoha
June 25th, 2013, 09:45 AM
Well, half the pics were grainy and the other half too zoomed-in
Hey, you have to give Waku Waku credit for trying to recreate all those effects in the wrong resolution.

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 09:45 AM
LAST TIME ON FATE STAY NIGHT

That's how every episode of the anime began!

terraablaze
June 25th, 2013, 09:46 AM
If the details of Fate are extremely clear in your memory after finishing UBW and HF then your memory is better than mine.

You're the person who replays the Prologue before moving on to the next route. A thing no one else does.

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 09:47 AM
You're the person who replays the Prologue before moving on to the next route. A thing no one else does.

Koto does what now?

Kotonoha
June 25th, 2013, 09:47 AM
That is a lie, I have never done that and never would, you monster.

I can't even replay the game because I hate the prologue so much, I boot up RN PC, read two lines and shut it down.

terraablaze
June 25th, 2013, 09:49 AM
WHAT!?! I quite clearly remember you complaining about how no one remembers some detail or another about Rin because they don't replay the prologue before every route like they "should".

Polly
June 25th, 2013, 09:49 AM
That is a lie, I have never done that and never would, you monster.

I can't even replay the game because I hate the prologue so much, I boot up RN PC, read two lines and shut it down.

You know, you can always just go to Seorin's LP on the interwebs.

Strife ❤️
June 25th, 2013, 09:52 AM
It was a thrust like lighting.
A spearhead thrust to pierce my heart.

Kotonoha
June 25th, 2013, 10:01 AM
You know, you can always just go to Seorin's LP on the interwebs.
I don't want inane LPer comments in my VNs. Also after all that time I spent cracking RN PC I wanna actually play it.

TypeWannabe
June 25th, 2013, 10:52 AM
That is a lie, I have never done that and never would, you monster.

I can't even replay the game because I hate the prologue so much, I boot up RN PC, read two lines and shut it down.

Cast:
Shirou - Resident badass and all around pimp
Rin - Cocky girl with a heart of asshole
Sakura - Genre savvy slut
Kotomine - Useless quest giving NPC who delights in giving out Bear Ass Collecting Quests
Archer - Asshole who regularly drills Rin...for information.
Lancer - A mysterious man on a hunt for love and justice in a crime riddled world full of meaningless pain and torment
Caster - Hoe
Kuzuki - Jackie Chan
Berserker - A bodyguard perpetually tired of getting the shit jobs
Ilya - Shit tipper, and shit employer
Kiritsugu - Ultimate badass and all around pimp
Gilgamesh - The Man
Assassin - Pimp
Rider - OH MY GOD HAWTNESS I WANT TO BANG YOU
Shinji - Otaku
Saber: Bro

~O~

*Somewhere in Japan, the headquarters of the secret Kinko Club*

Takeuchi: *bursts down the door, inadvertently waking the occupant, one Nasu* YO SUP 'G?!?! YO WORD MAN, WE NEED SOME STORY UP IN DIS SHIT, WE GOTS US A DEAD LINE OF LIKE, FUCKING FIVE HOURS OF NOW

Nasu: aw man, totally blew my mind. I need my special mushroom weed man, i'm all tired out from not writing Melty Blood: Act Act

T: We ain't got no time fo dat, nigs! U GOT COME UP WITH SOMETHING LIKE...NOW

N: stfu noob, nobody underSTANDS MEEEEEEEEEEEE

T: fuc, fine, what about that stuff we wrote while in high school?

N: whu...

T: That thing with fucking up international public property, man!

N: Oh yeah, that. Naw, that would never work.

T: y, cus fem protag?

N: Yah, we still gotta make sales yo? WAIT, HOLD UP, I GOTS IT GIVE ME A SEC

T: hoozayuh!

N: The female protagonist is now...A GUY!

T: AW SHIT MAN, I CAN FEEL IT

N: And the King Arthur...IS THE GIRL!

T: *masturbating* hea yeah, keep it coming im so fucking close

N: And Kotomine will be...EVUL.

T: UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH HHH LETS DO THIS SHIT

N: I'mma fucking genius

T: But theres gotta be maids up in dis bitch

N: yo you got some fucked up fetish, ya know?

T: :D

And thus, FATE/STAY NIGHT WAS BOARDED!

Shirou: yo sup, im just got done with school and its like-

Lancer: DIE VILLAIN, YOU DO NAUGHT BUT CORRUPT THESE BLEEDING STREETS WITH WHORES AND SIN, I WILL CLEANSE THIS BROKEN WORLD OF THE FILTH THAT ERODE ITS BEAUTY

Shirou: AAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

Saber: LOLNOPE

Lancer: KNIGHT! Why must you impede the steps of justice on the way to the promised salvation?! I will pierce that corroded and decayed faith and weak tattered ideal!

Shirou: OMG HAWTNESS I WANT TO BANG YOU

Saber: Yeah, stare at my breast...plate for a couple of minutes while the cameraman takes a picture that will soon turn into a picture meme

Cameraman: Done

Saber: kkthxbai, off to go kill blue fag

Shirou: AW SHIT YOUZA GURL, U SHOULDN'T BE FIGHTIN'

Rin: Suddenly, flashback!

Shirou, Saber, Lancer: FUCK

Audience: COCKBLOCKER HOE

Rin: lolololololololol i wear a mini skirt, go to a school, and have like, pigtails and shit.

Audience, Shirou: OMG HAW3TNESS I WANT TO BANG YOU

Rin: ^-^

Ayako: S'up bitch

Rin: ya sup bitch

Sakura: TEE HEE

Ayako: stfu can't you see we're going through some kind of complex period lesbian sex dance?

Rin: Go do something useful

Sakura: wen i eat all of you this hole thing will be worth it!

Rin: Also, I'm magic

Sailor Moon: AW HELL NAW

Ayako: also, you supah early bi-atch. Yo clocks musta been screwy.

Rin: I will do absolutely nothing with that clearly foreshadowing information.

Ayako: kk, gonna go advance plot nao

Issei: Already ahead of you woman.

Shirou: O.O

Rin: ^-^

Issei: NOT ON MY WATCH WHORE

Kuzuki: Dudes, shut the fuck up. There's like...school and shit.

*School ends*

Kuzuki: Shit.

Taiga: I'm super special chocolate rainbow awesome!

Shinji: I'm here to be a douchebag.

Rin: You are here to prove my intelligence and difference from every other Japanese school girl tsundere cliche ever.

Shinji: I masturbate to your mini skirt every night. Also, I'm raping your sister.

Rin: What was that?

Shinji: masturbation?

Rin: kk

Sakura: I ONLY WHORE MYSELF OUT TO DULL THE PAIN

THREE UNIMPORTANT PEOPLE: ohai Toshaka

Rin: S'up harem

3: Wanna do some padding scenes out?

Rin: NOPE

3: cool, we gonna have 3some over here

Issei: BITCHES AND WHORES

*School seriously ends*

Rin: The minute I get out of the school gates I become GRIM DARK Sailor Moon

Kotomine: Yo Rin, you doing this shit or not? Come to the church so I can chop off your arm if you ain't.

Rin: Oh that Kotomine, I'm sure he won't be a villain AT ALL.

*night arises and the dreams would freeze, nowhere to hide and no leaves on the trees, and my father's eyes were blank as he hit me again and again and again*

Rin: Time to go summon my Servant. Cus, magical!

Kotomine: blah blah magic war blah blah not evil

Rin: Fighting evil by moonlight
Winning love by daylight
Never running from a real fight,
I am the one they call Sailor Moon!

Issei: She will never turn her back on a friend,
she is always there to defend,
she is the one on whom we can depend,
she is the onenamed Sailor...!

Archer: Sailor Venus!

Shirou: Sailor Mercury!

Kotomine: Sailor Mars!

Gilgamesh: Sailor Jupiter!

Arcuied: I sense a disturbance in the Force

Sailor Moon: I'mma 'bout to cap some asses.

Archer: Also, I'm in your living room, not your basement. Archer does not play around in dumbass basements, Archer does whatever the pimp he wants.

Rin: But...how...

Archer: I'm magic, I ain't gotta explain shit. Also, look at my bondage pants

Rin: I am so wet

Archer: Also, I'm a dick.

Rin: WAT. I r only character who be dick. you be manslave nao

Archer: Bitch.

Rin: Tsundere powers go! What is your name?

Archer: I am sir lancelot!

Rin: What is your quest?

Archer: I seek the Holy Grail!

Rin: What...is your favorite color?

Archer: Red!

Rin: kk.

Archer: Also, I'm totally the bestest Servant because you summoned me, so we can't lose.

Rin: I want you to go Tuxedo Mask on my Sailor Moon.

*dream time. EXPOSITION!*

Rin: Holy Grail is not THE Holy Grail. No need to go Toaru no Index after all.

Touma: Bitch, do I need to break my illusion off in your ass?

Rin: Anyway, seven magi get together to try to claim the Holy Grail to have their wish granted. Because it can do that apparently. Indiana Jones eat your heart out.

Rin: But we're weaksauce, so we summon supah dupah Servants, who are basically better gods, to do battle for us. There is no way this could backfire.

Avenger: Yup, no way.

Gilgamesh: Definitely no way.

Rin: Right. We control them through Command Seals, which break the laws of physics. We use them to do stupid shit like obey us, and not attack each other.

Shirou: You know, I really should have been smarter than that.

Archer: Exposition over. Also, cleaned up the place I trashed.

Rin: I'll throw you a bone later.

Archer: Bitch.

Rin: I want you inside me.

Archer: BLAH BLAH MAGIC EXPOSITION

Rin: Shit, I already know all of this, why are you telling me? Also, tour of the city, because PADDING.

Archer: There's a Reality Marble here.

Rin: What?

Archer: You know, that thing that TATARI used in Melty Blood, and what apparently Arcuied can summon through Marble Phantasm.

Rin: PSST, this isn't a Tsukihime spin off.

Archer: AW SHIT, Nasu actually did something original.

Nasu: ha ha, I'd care, but I'm high as fuck

Rin: Anyway, noob Shinji might be stalking us.

Archer: But the only douche presense I sense is my own.

Rin: NOTHING EVER COMES OF THIS.

*it's night time now for some reason*

Rin: ohai look isn't the city purty?

Archer: What the fuck hoe? We could have just gone here instead of touring THE ENTIRE FUCKING CITY. I do believe my feet are bleeding.

Rin: ur eyesight is that good.

Archer: MY NAME IS ARCHER. If I didn't have good eyesight, you know what, fuck it. You suck.

Rin: ohai somebody who is implied to be Shirou, and is Shirou, but for some reason I can't say his name in my thoughts.

Archer: Let's quit this crazy scene, oh how I wish I had a river, I could skate away on. And I would teach my feet to, Flyyyyyy~yyyyyyy~yyyy oh I wish I had a river...

*time skip*

Rin: Oh shit, Sakura, hide!

Archer: y?

Rin: Because if she sees a man at this time of night, she'll never let go of his balls until he's sucked dry.

Archer: Holy shit, the author hates Sakura.

Me: No, and I'll try to apologize to mike later, it's just that everybody else is milking that whole Sakura is hoe comedic thing for all it's worth, so...

Archer: Bandwagoner.

Me: Shut up, you sexy man.

Gilgamesh: Lady, I can see like, ALL the STD's in your body. Literally of them. If you so much as touch me I think I might explode.

Sakura: I NIGHT RAPE TO DULL THE PAIN

Gilgamesh: Also, I'm basically an Aryan, so I'm evil. Go kill yourself before you turn into a tentacle monster.

Sakura: WAH WAH WAH

*they touch and go their separate ways. Somday, love will find her, break those, chains that BIND HER, one night, will remind her, how they touched and went their separate ways. If he, ever hurts her, true love, won't desert her, you know, Gilgamesh still loves her, as they touched and went their separate ways*

Rin: Darkness crawls across the land. The midnight hour is close at hand. Creatures crawl in search of blood, to terrorize ya'll neighborhoods OH WAIT THAT'S JUST SAKURA

Archer: You are like, the worst person ever.

~O~

Rin: LOL, WER R GETTING ALONG

Archer: BFFS FOREVEAH

Rin: HOLY SHIT BOUNDARY FIELD

Archer: ...the audience has...no idea what you just said.

Rin: Don't worry it'll get explained later, we don't need more exposition in the prologue.

*And so, time passes slowly. To everything, turn, turn turn, there is a season, turn, turn, turn*

Rin: Aight, nighttime, time to put on my Sailor Scout uniform and fuck some bitches up. WEST SI-EED

Lancer: VILLAINOUS CURS, HOW DARE YOU SET UP THIS BOUNDARY FIELD TO SUCK DRY THE HEARTS AND SOULS OF THESE INNOCENT PEOPLE. BY THE POWER OF THE BLUE MOON SHINING, I WILL PASS JUDGMENT UPON THEE.

Rin: Holy shit that is the most skintight outfit I've ever seen. You may very well be the first confirmed gay person in the Nasuverse.

Lancer: HOW DARE YOU MOCK ME WENCH, I WILL SEE YOUR BLACKENED SOUL STRUNG UP ON THE MOUNTAINTOPS OF INFINITE JUSTICE

Rin: kkthxbai, gonna go jump off building nao

Lancer: Despite the fact that I can move faster than you by like, 3x, I will wait until you've safely landed on the ground then slowly jog at you.

Archer: Wow, you're not only a fag, you are also retarded. This will be easier than blowing up two ships full of innocent people to kill one guy.

Rin, Lancer: That was oddly specific.

Archer: ALLAH AKBAR

Rin: EXPOSITION WHILE WATCHING THE FIGHT, SERVANTS ARE SUPAH MAGICAL AND GODLY AND STUFF

Archer: Holy shit are you serious. My ass is getting handed to me by a long red stick and you're expositing?

Lancer: YOU FOOL, THE END HAS COME FOR YOU

Shirou: What the fuck am I doing here, the plot just rammed me in the back.

Lancer: ALAS, A WITNESS TO OUR FIGHT. AS PER THE RULES OF THIS ABOMINABLE CONTEST BETWEEN MONSTERS AND THE TRIBULATIONS THAT FORGE MEN AND WOMEN INTO MERE SOLDIERS OF THE MACHINE OF FATE, I MUST DISPATCH OF THIS WOEFULLY IGNORANT MORTAL.

Shirou: Fuck this. Fuck my life.

Lancer: SINK INTO THE ABYSS AND PERISH FROM THIS LIFE.

Shirou: BLARG my innards

Rin: Oh noes, my potential love interest! I will now prove I am not a total assface by literally bringing you back from the damn dead.

Archer: Hey, how about not doing that-oh nevermind, I'll go after the blue fag

Rin: *genuinely touching scene that the author is not heartless enough to corrupt*

*time skip*

Rin: Welp time to exposit some more, because I just love reviewing stuff I already know.

Saber is uber awesome, why couldn't I have gotten her.

My love for you is like a truck BERSERKER...would you like some making fuck BERSERKER. BERSERKER.

Archer: Hey, that guy was too fast, and I totally didn't let him go or anything. S'up?

Rin: blah blah morals

Archer: blah blah cynicism

Rin: blah blah blah?

Archer: blah blah

Rin: blah

Archer: blah

Rin: blah blah blah

Archer: Oh hey, I gots this pendant that you used to save that guy's life back there. Here ya goes.

Rin: Gee thx. OH SHIT LANCER IS GOING TO GO AFTER THAT GUY NOW

Archer: You are useless. I take every compliment about you back.

Shirou: Sweet Jesus a faggot is trying to thust his hard lance into my soft unprotected body.

Lancer: WHY MUST THE WORLD MOCK ME AS SUCH! DIE VILLAIN, YOU DO NAUGHT BUT CORRUPT THESE BLEEDING STREETS WITH WHORES AND SIN, I WILL CLEANSE THIS BROKEN WORLD OF THE FILTH THAT ERODE ITS BEAUTY

Saber: LOLNOPE

Archer: See, he's fine. Now we can BLARG MY INNARDS

Saber: Time to die brah

Rin: Shit. Also, I might be a lesbian, cus you are HAWT.

END(?)

eddyak
June 25th, 2013, 11:31 AM
ALLAH AKBAR

Apple
June 25th, 2013, 11:36 AM
I masturbate to your mini skirt every night.

H-how lewd