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Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 02:58 PM
A friend of a friend (and an acquaintance of myself) is in some trouble.


Eddie Casillas is a young man who is in jail facing a homicide case. He has been in jail for about 7 months. The details of the case you are about to read may not turn out to be completely accurate....but this is what I have at this moment.

Eddie is a big kid. Well over 6 feet and 250 lbs. He was always a good natured kid. Never saw him mad. Never saw him act in anger. And he had good reason to be mad at me....I frequently threw him out of my math class...and I ended up flunking him.

Story is that 7 months ago, Eddie witnessed an individual physically abuse a female. Eddie stepped in to prevent what he was witnessing. Apparently an argument ensued. This individual was an older man...and may have been a gang member. I will give you more accurate details when I have them. Anyway, in the fight that ensued.....the bigger man won. And Eddie was the bigger man. In case I didn't mention it...Eddie is BIG. So anyway...the other guy dies.


And Eddie finds himself in the joint facing homicide charges.

Now this is the deal....In America, the country you live in...homicide isn't one thing...it can be a bunch of things....1st degree murder, 2nd degree murder, or manslaughter. It can even be self-defense. What it is sometimes depends on how much money you have. Some would say it depends on the color of your skin. I don't believe that...but I know money has something to do with it. So Eddie doesn't have a bunch of money. So instead of being out on bail and facing a manslaughter charge....Eddie is sitting in a prison cell maybe facing 1st degree murder charges.

What difference does it make what he is charged with? Manslaughter means Eddie will be back out in a reasonable period of time. 1st degree murder means Eddie's life is over.

Why should you care? Frankly, I can't answer that. Help us if you want. Go on with you life if you don't.

By the way, Eddie had a history...of standing up for his friends. I have spoken with a number of them who can tell stories of Eddie helping them out of difficult situations. There are not too many people who wouldn't back down if Eddie asked you to "step away." Maybe he tried to help one time too many

Thoughts? That's everything my friend wrote on the matter.

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 03:04 PM
I am not gonna lie, on the face of it it sounds like a horrible situation, but on the other, part of me says its less then half the story.


the entire part of this which has merit is this part.


Story is that 7 months ago, Eddie witnessed an individual physically abuse a female. Eddie stepped in to prevent what he was witnessing. Apparently an argument ensued. This individual was an older man...and may have been a gang member. I will give you more accurate details when I have them. Anyway, in the fight that ensued.....the bigger man won. And Eddie was the bigger man. In case I didn't mention it...Eddie is BIG. So anyway...the other guy dies.

he steps into prevent abuse, good for him.

then the other part.

the other guy dies.


how? did he get punched and fall down a flight of stairs? beaten to death, stabbed? did he get knocked unconscious and then then eddie continued to beat him?

(by the way I assume thats a fake name since Eddie Casillas is a base player for the gypsies and a google search turns up no criminal record.)

anyway, if thats the truth, I hope he gets a light sentence. but this story feels very, very sugar coated.

Mike1984
June 17th, 2011, 03:08 PM
Well, you can kill a guy with a punch if you hit them hard enough. And I can certainly buy that the US justice system would fuck him over, too, because if you get a shit lawyer, they can make you come across a lot worse than you really are.

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 03:19 PM
I am not gonna lie, on the face of it it sounds like a horrible situation, but on the other, part of me says its less then half the story.


the entire part of this which has merit is this part.



he steps into prevent abuse, good for him.

then the other part.

the other guy dies.


how? did he get punched and fall down a flight of stairs? beaten to death, stabbed? did he get knocked unconscious and then then eddie continued to beat him?

(by the way I assume thats a fake name since Eddie Casillas is a base player for the gypsies and a google search turns up no criminal record.)

anyway, if thats the truth, I hope he gets a light sentence. but this story feels very, very sugar coated.

Yeah, I'm inclined to believe he hit the guy a little too hard. Eddie is a big, friendly guy, but just like in that statement I have to emphasize how large he is.

There's also the matter of the other guy. I've seen abuse in public before. It can get pretty nasty.

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Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 03:21 PM
Well, you can kill a guy with a punch if you hit them hard enough. And I can certainly buy that the US justice system would fuck him over, too, because if you get a shit lawyer, they can make you come across a lot worse than you really are.

oh you certainly can, I just couldn't help but notice the lack of that kind of information. if it was favorable, I feel like it would have been included. if he hits a guy and it turns out he had some kind of previous injury or condition that kills him, we have a name for that, manslaughter. in other words, killing someone but only intending to injure. which is basically the charge you see for when two people square off and it turns out one of them has a really powerful right hook and the other a glass jaw.

the fact that they gave him murder without even letting him plea down to manslaughter to me says he took some kind of action (beating him while unconscious, using a weapon, choking, things like that) that the prosecution is pretty sure they can use to justify murder one.


(note this is pure armchair law and I could so very easily be wrong, he just asked for thoughts)

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 03:22 PM
Well, I'm glad for your input, nonetheless.

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Yeah, I'm inclined to believe he hit the guy a little too hard. Eddie is a big, friendly guy, but just like in that statement I have to emphasize how large he is.

There's also the matter of the other guy. I've seen abuse in public before. It can get pretty nasty.
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what are those things at the bottom?

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 03:27 PM
I honestly have no idea.

Mike1984
June 17th, 2011, 03:32 PM
oh you certainly can, I just couldn't help but notice the lack of that kind of information. if it was favorable, I feel like it would have been included. if he hits a guy and it turns out he had some kind of previous injury or condition that kills him, we have a name for that, manslaughter. in other words, killing someone but only intending to injure. which is basically the charge you see for when two people square off and it turns out one of them has a really powerful right hook and the other a glass jaw.

the fact that they gave him murder without even letting him plea down to manslaughter to me says he took some kind of action (beating him while unconscious, using a weapon, choking, things like that) that the prosecution is pretty sure they can use to justify murder one.


(note this is pure armchair law and I could so very easily be wrong, he just asked for thoughts)

Or, alternately, he has a shitty lawyer who failed miserably to do his job properly and a hard-ass prosecutor who decided to go for it....

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 03:40 PM
well its possible, I mean, the guy sounds like he is of color and poor, and the system eats that kind of person for lunch. you are right about the corruption, if he had enough money he would be out on bail right now nearly regardless of what he had done to the victim.

still seems like a hard sell though. be a lot easier if I could dig out a news report or case notes but I cant find anything.

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 03:42 PM
I just learned today, and that was through a friend.

Still, here in Los Angeles, these cases are a dime a dozen.

Mike1984
June 17th, 2011, 03:46 PM
well its possible, I mean, the guy sounds like he is of color and poor, and the system eats that kind of person for lunch. you are right about the corruption, if he had enough money he would be out on bail right now nearly regardless of what he had done to the victim.

Exactly.


still seems like a hard sell though. be a lot easier if I could dig out a news report or case notes but I cant find anything.

Well, without the information you're right that we don't know, but last time I checked people were innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. Whilst you might be right, I doubt it's a simple open-and-shut case like you seem to be implying. If it were, then I don't see why anyone would be bothering to complain about it. A bit of temporary public sympathy from a board full of people who he doesn't know doesn't count for jack when he's on Death Row (or in prison for life).

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 03:51 PM
It is innocent until proven guilty, thus a trial. To me it sounded like however a fair trial wasn't expected. And no, I do not believe it is an open and shut case. That said, I am inclined to believe at some point Eddie did something that the DA believes they could get a murder wrap for, and as far as I can tell, whether or not he meant to, we already know Eddie killed the guy. at least, that's what I gather from "somehow, the guy ended up dead"

Defense of a third party? possible, and a valid legal defense. But, a man is dead.

In-N-Out Double-Double & Animal Fries
June 17th, 2011, 03:52 PM
Hm...

from what I've heard, using your bare hands can be considered assault with a lethal weapon (wtf) and well, if he killed a man like that, I wouldn't be surprised that that was chucked on. But, frankly, unless we know more and someone on Beast's lair has a good understanding of law, we can't really do anything helpful for your friend

eddyak
June 17th, 2011, 03:54 PM
Do they have the testimony of the girl that guy tried to rape?

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 03:56 PM
^^^ Every time I've seen abuse in public, it's been a banger. They are vicious brutes, the lot of them.

^^ Not really look for help, just for input.

^ AFAIK, it wasn't rape, more like battery. But I don't know anything about the case in question. Most likely, she was his wife or girlfriend, in which case she won't be talking no matter what he did to her.
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Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 03:59 PM
worth noting that mike is right about innocent until proven guilty, so probably the victim is also only accused of abusing the girl.


naturally I think he probably was some low life gangster being an ass, but if were going to talk about presumption of innocence it also applies to him as well.

Mike1984
June 17th, 2011, 04:36 PM
Well, no, not quite. If he was on trial, then he would most certainly have to be presumed innocent, but when we're talking about the trial of a person who is accused of killing him, that is no longer the case.

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 04:40 PM
not in this situation. we arent putting eddie on trial, nor do we have any say over his fate.

so, if you say, that we, when discussing our thoughts on the situations, should give the same weight of law, in other words that Eddie is innocent until proven guilty, then we have to give the same to the victim.

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Doesn't the fact that he was outright abusing a woman prove him guilty of something?

Cruor
June 17th, 2011, 04:42 PM
Wasn't there something like 'Lawful Defense of Another Person'?

Mike1984
June 17th, 2011, 04:44 PM
not in this situation. we arent putting eddie on trial, nor do we have any say over his fate.

so, if you say, that we, when discussing our thoughts on the situations, should give the same weight of law, in other words that Eddie is innocent until proven guilty, then we have to give the same to the victim.

Not if we're discussing Eddie we don't. The guilt or otherwise of the victim is irrelevant here, all that matters is what Eddie did.

Also, I don't give a crap about the law, it's just generally not a good idea to condemn people on the basis of such flimsy evidence.

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 04:45 PM
Doesn't the fact that he was outright abusing a woman prove him guilty of something?

well no, we dont know that he was, we have like a third person account that he was. saying we knew for a fact the victim was abusing a girl would be like looking at the original post and saying we know for a fact Eddie brutally beat an innocent bystander to death with his bare hands for the change in his pocket.


Wasn't there something like 'Lawful Defense of Another Person'?

sure, defense of a third party is justifiable homicide in most states. hell, most countries.


Not if we're discussing Eddie we don't. The guilt or otherwise of the victim is irrelevant here, all that matters is what Eddie did.


it would if the justification for Eddie killing the guy, is, as I understand it, that he was protecting someone else.

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 04:46 PM
I know Eddie personally. I can tell you Eddie wouldn't do something like that.

Tobias
June 17th, 2011, 04:49 PM
I know Eddie personally. I can tell you Eddie wouldn't do something like that.

I know, I dont think he did. I was drawing a parallel. saying we "know" the victim was hurting someone else is like saying Eddie committed a horrible crime. we don't really have near enough evidence one way or another

Neir
June 17th, 2011, 05:30 PM
It depends what sort of 'abuse' Eddie witnessed and exactly how the other guy wound up dying. Homicide is premeditated, so unless Eddie was full of righteous fury and actually killed him, it would probably be something along the lines of assault and manslaughter. I'm no lawyer though. I wish I could help more.

What I can say is that it really depends on the lawyer and establishing Eddie's character. You may even want to volunteer as a character witness.


Doesn't the fact that he was outright abusing a woman prove him guilty of something?
Depends on the abuse, honestly. And whether or not she will testify.

Mcjon01
June 17th, 2011, 05:37 PM
So, Eddie. Given name or nickname? And is this kid a minor?

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 06:44 PM
I honestly don't know which it is. I've only ever heard him addressed as Eddie, so I assume it's his given name.

No, he's not a minor.
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Mcjon01
June 17th, 2011, 07:11 PM
Just wondering, since I'm trying to piece together as much of the whole story as I can. Found this homicide report on the LA Times website, which fits the timeframe and most of the details you gave:

http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/post/larry-samudio/

Except, "stabbed to death" is a bit different from "so anyway... the other guy dies". Dunno if it's the same case, though, obviously. Since I'm not the one that knows the guy.

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 07:24 PM
I have no idea, though I sincerely doubt that was the same case.

No mention was made of stabbing.

Theocrass
June 17th, 2011, 08:20 PM
It depends what sort of 'abuse' Eddie witnessed and exactly how the other guy wound up dying. Homicide is premeditated, so unless Eddie was full of righteous fury and actually killed him, it would probably be something along the lines of assault and manslaughter. I'm no lawyer though. I wish I could help more.

What I can say is that it really depends on the lawyer and establishing Eddie's character. You may even want to volunteer as a character witness.


Depends on the abuse, honestly. And whether or not she will testify.

Maybe homicide was my friend using the wrong word.

Eddie apparently saw him physically abusing the woman, but I have no more than that. I'm an acquaintance at best, there's other people who know him better.

If the man in question was indeed a gang banger, and the woman was his wife or girlfriend, then the chances of her testifying are little to none.

Neir
June 17th, 2011, 08:21 PM
Then character witnesses will likely be important, if they are needed at all.

SeiKeo
June 18th, 2011, 02:28 AM
I'm truly sorry that I can't offer help with this. He seems like a good person who was too good for his own good.

Also, whatever happened to a speedy trial? Even if it's the fastest they can manage, seven months is nowhere near speedy.

Hoster
June 19th, 2011, 05:01 PM
Tsk.

I may be incensitive when I say that I could not care less about the situation that this guy, Eddie, has found himself in. However, I care very much about justice.

Eddie witnessed another man abusing a woman and he acted to help her. The following fight or argument of whatever between the man and Eddie resulted in the death of this man. Either way, Eddie surely had the best of intentions - and if what you say about the guy is correct Theo, I doubt this is what he wanted to happen - but the man that abused the woman got what he deserved. The way I see it, what Eddie did was the right thing to do in that situation, whether the death of that man was an accident or not. That is good enough a reason for me not to want him to go to jail and/or prison.

But noe, along comes America with the will to ruin the day for everyone...

Damned cockbites.

KENTA
June 20th, 2011, 06:06 PM
Because you punch someone or yell horrible things to/about them you deserve death? Kinda rare that you hear people actually say something like that.

Kotonoha
June 20th, 2011, 06:23 PM
Tsk.

I may be incensitive when I say that I could not care less about the situation that this guy, Eddie, has found himself in. However, I care very much about justice.

Eddie witnessed another man abusing a woman and he acted to help her. The following fight or argument of whatever between the man and Eddie resulted in the death of this man. Either way, Eddie surely had the best of intentions - and if what you say about the guy is correct Theo, I doubt this is what he wanted to happen - but the man that abused the woman got what he deserved. The way I see it, what Eddie did was the right thing to do in that situation, whether the death of that man was an accident or not. That is good enough a reason for me not to want him to go to jail and/or prison.

But noe, along comes America with the will to ruin the day for everyone...

Damned cockbites.

Errrr... what is it that you want them to do, not have a trial at all? That would be a messed up system.

ringlhach
June 20th, 2011, 06:47 PM
Eddie shouldn't be up for Murder 1. I haven't looked at the laws in CA- no real reason to- but Murder One is generally premeditated murder; Eddie would have had to have seen this happen, possibly repeatedly, and confronted the guy later with the intent to kill him if he didn't change his ways. At most, he should have been up for Murder Two, which is deliberately killing someone, but not premeditated, and sounds like how it might have actually happened. I don't know Eddie, and I don't know how he gets in a fight- but when you get going and the adrenaline gets kicking, it can be damn hard to stop. Sometimes, you don't notice when the other guy goes down or tries to get away, and you don't notice when he stops moving. It's not always easy to tell what's from you hitting and what's someone moving because it hurts. My personal experience with this is more on the receiving end, but I'm a nerd and always have been. It was worse during HS because I was that geek that was always alone and always had his nose in a book.

And if it was knives, it was a lot worse. It looks like the guy might have bled out, or else had something important- kidneys, liver, pancreas, lungs- nicked. Maybe the intestines. It's pretty hard to get at most of those unless you go up under the rib cage.

From what you say, it sounds like the guy was a gangbanger, and moderately important. Someone might be pulling strings. If that's actually the article, then I really want to know what everyone else at the party saw, and I do mean everyone.

EDIT: And before I forget, "manslaughter," "accidental homicide," or whatever is completely accidental- like someone running out in front of you on the freeway and you hitting 'em, or feeding a stranger something that they're allergic to and them going into anaphylactic shock.

Mike1984
June 20th, 2011, 07:08 PM
EDIT: And before I forget, "manslaughter," "accidental homicide," or whatever is completely accidental- like someone running out in front of you on the freeway and you hitting 'em, or feeding a stranger something that they're allergic to and them going into anaphylactic shock.

No, it's not.

Manslaughter means you did not intend to kill (or cause potentially lethal harm to) the person, not that your actions were completely accidental.

SeiKeo
June 20th, 2011, 07:10 PM
Maybe it's a difference between British law and American?

Tobias
June 20th, 2011, 07:11 PM
also, you dont have to travel or anything like that either. you would be up for murder one if you throttled him to death, attacked with a weapon of some sort, or continued the attack after he was unconscious.


Maybe it's a difference between British law and American?

its not, mike is right

ringlhach
June 21st, 2011, 07:18 AM
It might be a difference in the law in the different states, then. In FL, TX and UT, first-degree murder/equivalent has been explained to me as "premeditated," meaning "planned." Sure, you can plan in the space of seconds, but it doesn't normally happen.

And about the manslaughter thing, yeah, I explained it wrong. Mike's right.

EDIT: I went and looked at the actual laws; in Florida (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html), that's the case; in Utah, (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_05_020200.htm) not (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_05_020300.htm) so (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_05_020500.htm) much (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_05_020600.htm); and in Texas, it'd be murder (http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/19.02.00.html) and not capital murder (http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/19.03.00.html).

EDIT2: The California Penal Code articles 187 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/187.html) and counting address murder. They make my head hurt, and I have yet to find the end of the damn things. It's probably somewhere around section 200.

Tobias
June 21st, 2011, 08:31 AM
you are misunderstanding the word premeditated, as it can be defined as happening seconds before the murder. even if you have never met someone before, if you stab someone, you are up for murder one, taking out the knife is premeditation, ditto for picking up a lead pipe or something. that action is considered to increase the likelihood of success in the attempt of murder and satisfies the requirement of premeditation. same thing as continuing the assault after someone is unconscious.

Hoster
June 21st, 2011, 12:37 PM
Because you punch someone or yell horrible things to/about them you deserve death? Kinda rare that you hear people actually say something like that. I was making the assumtion that the man was yelling at the woman and hurting her for all the wrong reasons. I am not denying the possibility that he may have had a reason to be angry with her or lash out at her. For all I know she may have done him wrong.

That doesn't matter though, what matters is that Eddie seemed to have believed that the man was abusing the woman, and that Eddie wanted to help her. The way I see it Eddie has done nothing wrong and should not be punished.



Errrr... what is it that you want them to do, not have a trial at all? I do not want them to have a system at all, so you can take that as a yes.

Kotonoha
June 23rd, 2011, 05:30 PM
I do not want them to have a system at all, so you can take that as a yes.

Oh great, an anarchist...

SeiKeo
June 23rd, 2011, 05:41 PM
Fuck yeah, I love anarchy.

Kotonoha
June 23rd, 2011, 06:21 PM
ANARCHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

EVERYONE WANTS TO BE ME

Tohno
June 23rd, 2011, 06:31 PM
ANARCHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

EVERYONE WANTS TO BE ME

I'm adding this to Wikiquote.