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Question
June 23rd, 2011, 07:47 AM
So if im understanding this correctly...

DAs are humans who have managed to become vampires, either through a one in a billion chance after getting their blood sucked by another DA, or through some form of magical research. Right?

Essentially, how does the body change?

For example Satsuki complaints she always feels cold, which i find strange. If her body was undead, it would not generate heat and her body would be the same as room temperature(or in other words the same temperature as the air). Logically speaking she shouldnt feel cold at all if this was the case, since the reason why we feel cold in winter is because our body temperature and the outside temperature is so different.

Im also pretty sure that a DA will bleed if cut, which means they have a full functioning circulatory system. In which case, their body can't be a corpse, since corpses don't really bleed, and theres no functioning heart to pump the blood.

Then theres the matter of how they draw sustenance from blood. They drink it, through their mouth, which goes down to their stomach. Then what happens? Do their stomachs change to absorb blood into their blood vessels? Or something else?

And they are also much faster, stronger, etc despite no change in muscle mass or whatever. Where does all the extra muscle power come from?

In other words how different is a DA body from a normal human?

terraablaze
June 23rd, 2011, 07:54 AM
For example Satsuki complaints she always feels cold, which i find strange. If her body was undead, it would not generate heat and her body would be the same as room temperature(or in other words the same temperature as the air). Logically speaking she shouldnt feel cold at all if this was the case, since the reason why we feel cold in winter is because our body temperature and the outside temperature is so different.

Because Satsuki is an unfortunate character, and Nasu doesn't know his science.



Im also pretty sure that a DA will bleed if cut, which means they have a full functioning circulatory system. In which case, their body can't be a corpse, since corpses don't really bleed, and theres no functioning heart to pump the blood.

I don't remember if it is ever described whether they have a beating heart or not; Sion, Zelretch(I think), Roa, and Tohno(almost) become vampires while still alive so they were never corpses to begin with.



Then theres the matter of how they draw sustenance from blood. They drink it, through their mouth, which goes down to their stomach. Then what happens? Do their stomachs change to absorb blood into their blood vessels? Or something else?


Going to guess they directly absorb their Odo like Rider does.



And they are also much faster, stronger, etc despite no change in muscle mass or whatever. Where does all the extra muscle power come from?


Because vampires are supposed to be stronger.
Seriously because there is something about becoming your ideal self or something, so everyone gets stronger except Merem who just seems to become immortal and Zelretch who becomes weaker for some reason upon becoming a Dead Apostle.


In other words how different is a DA body from a normal human?
In whatever way Nasu decides this particular Dead Apostle to be crazy super special.

I3uster
June 23rd, 2011, 08:52 AM
http://pichars.org/store/1297_original_dfOLz.

Cruor
June 23rd, 2011, 08:59 AM
it would not generate heat and her body would be the same as room temperature(or in other words the same temperature as the air)

I don't think bodies work like that. Shiki actually touches her once or twice and says she feels like a corpse in a morgue or something.


Im also pretty sure that a DA will bleed if cut, which means they have a full functioning circulatory system. In which case, their body can't be a corpse, since corpses don't really bleed, and theres no functioning heart to pump the blood.
Actually, no. Probably not. I don't think we seen a DA bleed. Just their meat get slashed off and not being able to heal (if hit by he MEoDP). With Tohno (when he runs around with his arm cut off and stuff when Roa was taking over), he was kinda still alive (TA's can make a person a DA with the human sill technically being alive which is kinda what happened to Roa).


And they are also much faster, stronger, etc despite no change in muscle mass or whatever. Where does all the extra muscle power come from?
We're divided ourselves on this point. Just choose to believe they no longer have to listen to subconcious limits now that they're dead and regenerate or something.

food
June 23rd, 2011, 09:05 AM
They must bleed/have blood circulating, since blood is the medium through which DA turn others.

About DA's being stronger, there's also the factor of "lol I am on the tier of phantasmal creatures".

lethum
June 23rd, 2011, 09:17 AM
I don't think bodies work like that. Shiki actually touches her once or twice and says she feels like a corpse in a morgue or something.

The way our bodies feel temperature is through measuring the heat flow. We have specialized neurons that can feel an incoming heat flow (they let us feel hot) and specialized neurons that can feel outcoming heat flows (they let us feel cold). Once the flow stops, the sensation stops too. This is the reason why cold metal will feel very cold and cold cardboard at the same temperature will not feel very cold: the outgoing heat flow from the body will be much greater while touching the cold metal.

This means that if your body temperature is very low (morgue corpse low, for example), and you are alive and well, then you won't feel cold, but normal people touching you will feel like they are on fire, while they'll feel like you are freezing.

Tobias
June 23rd, 2011, 09:24 AM
I think you are taking it to literally, satsuki was dead, it was probably a spiritual coldness as much as it was being physically freezing.

Ergast
June 23rd, 2011, 09:43 AM
IIRC, they need the blood to repair themselves and to absorb genetic information because the DAs can't produce their own new genetic information. Or something. Just like we need to eat proteins, vitamins, carbohydrates... It's just that they need genetic information. Or maybe the vital energy of the living, who knows what Nasu meant when he said that (again, IIRC)

About their increased strength, speed, etc, what I3uster said.

terraablaze
June 23rd, 2011, 09:46 AM
IIRC, they need the blood to repair themselves and to absorb genetic information because the DAs can't produce their own new genetic information. Or something. Just like we need to eat proteins, vitamins, carbohydrates... It's just that they need genetic information. Or maybe the vital energy of the living, who knows what Nasu meant when he said that (again, IIRC)

About their increased strength, speed, etc, what I3uster said.

I think I remember that genetic information part, Arcueid mentions how vampires prefer virgin blood because the genetic information is in better shape then people who have had sex.

???

Narvi
June 23rd, 2011, 10:46 AM
You know, that 'genetic information' thing is kinda retarded.

I usually just pretend they absorb mana from the dudes they drink because Gaia is constantly trying to reject them.

I think that's the explanation for bloodsuckers now anyway.

Dartz
June 23rd, 2011, 10:51 AM
Actually, no. Probably not. I don't think we seen a DA bleed. Just their meat get slashed off and not being able to heal (if hit by he MEoDP). With Tohno (when he runs around with his arm cut off and stuff when Roa was taking over), he was kinda still alive (TA's can make a person a DA with the human sill technically being alive which is kinda what happened to Roa).

In MB Sion said that blood is what connects the nerves of a vampire. Also Roa died, he just revived later as stated in that one interview from 2001.

food
June 23rd, 2011, 11:12 AM
You know, that 'genetic information' thing is kinda retarded.I usually just pretend they absorb mana from the dudes they drink because Gaia is constantly trying to reject them.I think that's the explanation for bloodsuckers now anyway.The explanation is much simpler.Type Moon likes blood, so all his derivatives like blood intrinsically.Also blood is a concentrated energy source in Nasuverse, unlike in real world.

lethum
June 23rd, 2011, 01:35 PM
Blood IS a concentrated energy source...mostly because it transports your nutrients around.

That said, vampires drink human blood and get super powers. Humans don't (mostly).

food
June 23rd, 2011, 04:23 PM
That is vry far from truth.In fact, blood is an extremely poor source of nutrients for a predator.Trust me, I am an expert in this area.

terraablaze
June 23rd, 2011, 04:37 PM
That is vry far from truth.In fact, blood is an extremely poor source of nutrients for a predator.Trust me, I am an expert in this area.

Sooooooooooooo
Vampire bats, how do they work? *totally serious*

Tangerang
June 23rd, 2011, 04:40 PM
I think it's something like where the flesh and stuff contains more protein and nutrients than just blood?

Huh, wouldn't that be along the lines of Nrvnqsr actually? Didn't he say his method of eating everything was more efficient than just drinking some blood?

food
June 23rd, 2011, 04:45 PM
SoooooooooooooVampire bats, how do they work? *totally serious*Do u know? Vampire bat has to constantly piss in order to make room for the low nutrient diet of blood. If you are a vampire bat, u have to drink the equivalent of a bath tub of blood a day so u don't friggin starve.That's how they work.

TypeWannabe
June 23rd, 2011, 04:46 PM
Silly vampire, blood is for humans!

terraablaze
June 23rd, 2011, 04:56 PM
Do u know? Vampire bat has to constantly piss in order to make room for the low nutrient diet of blood. If you are a vampire bat, u have to drink the equivalent of a bath tub of blood a day so u don't friggin starve.That's how they work.

Okay thanks, always wondered how that worked.

food
June 23rd, 2011, 04:58 PM
Now imagine Roa always leaving a trail of urine behind him (if they really lived off of blood).

terraablaze
June 23rd, 2011, 05:12 PM
Ciel would have followed the scent trail, but her nose is to full of curry.

TypeWannabe
June 23rd, 2011, 05:44 PM
Suddenly, Roa's creepy smile makes sense. He's relieving himself.

Question
June 24th, 2011, 10:47 AM
The genetic information thing sounds retarded. Drinking blood doesnt "restore" genetic information, unless hes talking about the cells breaking down over time, which is what all humans have, and drinking blood doesnt stop that.

I3uster
June 24th, 2011, 11:08 AM
The genetic information thing sounds retarded. Drinking blood doesnt "restore" genetic information, unless hes talking about the cells breaking down over time, which is what all humans have, and drinking blood doesnt stop that.
I'd like to kindly redirect you to my post.
A lot of stuff Nasu writes does not make sense. Biology isn't even raped that much. Just go look at the physics of the Nasuverse.

food
June 24th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Lol, especially considering most of the blood is water and cells with no nuclei.If you want DNA, you are better off eating flesh. Nero is doing it right.

terraablaze
June 24th, 2011, 11:40 AM
I try to point this out to Mike all the time, but he is stubborn as usual (most of us are). Try to figure out how things work in the setting and then just deal with it.

Question
June 24th, 2011, 10:24 PM
I'd like to kindly redirect you to my post.
A lot of stuff Nasu writes does not make sense. Biology isn't even raped that much. Just go look at the physics of the Nasuverse.

I know, a lot of stuff that he says sounds cool but impractical/stupid when you think about it.

I think hes the kind of writer that could really benefit from someone helping him to shape his universe. Someone who can go "Hey, we got all these vampires right? A story on their origin and how they came to be this way would be really popular." and help him with the finer points. Right now all Nasu does is drop hints for all these characters and events but we never see any of them fleshed out.

I dont even know what Nasu has done since F/HA other than helping out on stuff like the anime, etc, which is not exactly a fulltime job.

Rowanism
June 25th, 2011, 04:28 PM
I dont even know what Nasu has done since F/HA other than helping out on stuff like the anime, etc, which is not exactly a fulltime job.
He is busy counting the money from the big movie deals they made recently. Just before he finishes, another movie is out and brings new money, so he has to continue counting.

terraablaze
June 25th, 2011, 04:30 PM
Nasu wouldn't have this problem if he hired an accountant. Guess he prefers the Scrooge McDuck method.

Kotollama
June 25th, 2011, 04:47 PM
Lol, especially considering most of the blood is water and cells with no nuclei.If you want DNA, you are better off eating flesh. Nero is doing it right.
http://i.imgur.com/ZNt46.gif

TypeWannabe
June 25th, 2011, 05:00 PM
I try to point this out to Mike all the time, but he is stubborn as usual (most of us are). Try to figure out how things work in the setting and then just deal with it.

What? No you haven't, this has never come up with him.

Mcjon01
June 25th, 2011, 05:03 PM
What? No you haven't, this has never come up with him.

The fact that things in the Nasuverse work how they work, I think, reality be damned. Not this topic specifically.

TypeWannabe
June 25th, 2011, 05:07 PM
But they still need some basis in reality. Hell, even most of us subconsciously believe the laws of physics have to be the same, otherwise the Questions and Badass Versus threads wouldn't nearly be as long.

terraablaze
June 25th, 2011, 05:09 PM
I just be counterfeiting the currency.

Mcjon01
June 25th, 2011, 05:36 PM
But they still need some basis in reality. Hell, even most of us subconsciously believe the laws of physics have to be the same, otherwise the Questions and Badass Versus threads wouldn't nearly be as long.

Sure, things are probably superficially the same. But I think the point is that you can't just look at something and say "that's impossible because of (real world reason)", nor can you presume that things must be a certain way based off of (possible real world explanation for anomalous physical effect). Things just happen because they happen. There's a lot of lolmagic and rule of cool thrown around, all mixed in with simple misunderstanding of science on the part of the author where applicable.

Question
June 30th, 2011, 06:38 AM
Side note : Does anyone have typemoon's official email address? Its probably on their site, but it will be a bit difficult to find if you cant read japanese.

Counterguardian
June 30th, 2011, 07:13 AM
No idea, but there's a questions thread for stuff like this.

Mike1984
July 2nd, 2011, 05:26 PM
I try to point this out to Mike all the time, but he is stubborn as usual (most of us are). Try to figure out how things work in the setting and then just deal with it.

Erm, what?

I don't ever complain about the fact that they do a bunch of magical stuff which just can't work. What I complain about is when they aren't consistent about it (or people assume they shouldn't be), for instance having a world which is identical to ours but without the same laws of physics applying to normal people.

terraablaze
July 2nd, 2011, 05:57 PM
A fictional world will never be "identical" to ours regardless of how knowledgeable the author is, it is just a natural result only being able to know so much.

Mike1984
July 2nd, 2011, 06:17 PM
Yeah, but we have no evidence that the Nasuverse doesn't obey fundamental physics, and therefore we should assume that it does.

My problem is when people counter arguments like "they can't move faster than the speed of light" and "well, if Aoko can travel through time, then she can also travel through space, by basic physics" with "well, basic physics doesn't apply to the Nasuverse". Yes, it does, unless and until it is proven otherwise.

terraablaze
July 2nd, 2011, 06:26 PM
Nasu does not know how advanced physics work, therefore if he were to write about things that involve advanced physics, he will be wrong.

That is probably a much safer assumption.

Mcjon01
July 2nd, 2011, 06:27 PM
I tend to think of it as a low-resolution simulation based off the author's model of reality. The inner workings of physics and stuff don't really exist unless you're looking at them, and things happen the way they do because that's how they're supposed to happen.

Mike1984
July 2nd, 2011, 06:31 PM
Nasu does not know how advanced physics work, therefore if he were to write about things that involve advanced physics, he will be wrong.

That is probably a much safer assumption.

But, since he hasn't written about them, and acts (implicitly) as if they apply (because he uses modern technology that relies on them) we should assume they do until otherwise proven. The alternative is for it to be inconsistent.

terraablaze
July 2nd, 2011, 06:35 PM
It technically is going to be inconsistent anyway, in fact at times I think he meant for it to be that way.

Reality in the setting is maintained by about 3 or more overminds who are constantly tricked and undermined by magi, demons, and who knows what else.

Erlkonig
July 2nd, 2011, 10:29 PM
So if im understanding this correctly...

DAs are humans who have managed to become vampires, either through a one in a billion chance after getting their blood sucked by another DA, or through some form of magical research. Right?

Essentially, how does the body change?

For example Satsuki complaints she always feels cold, which i find strange. If her body was undead, it would not generate heat and her body would be the same as room temperature(or in other words the same temperature as the air). Logically speaking she shouldnt feel cold at all if this was the case, since the reason why we feel cold in winter is because our body temperature and the outside temperature is so different.

Im also pretty sure that a DA will bleed if cut, which means they have a full functioning circulatory system. In which case, their body can't be a corpse, since corpses don't really bleed, and theres no functioning heart to pump the blood.

Then theres the matter of how they draw sustenance from blood. They drink it, through their mouth, which goes down to their stomach. Then what happens? Do their stomachs change to absorb blood into their blood vessels? Or something else?

And they are also much faster, stronger, etc despite no change in muscle mass or whatever. Where does all the extra muscle power come from?

In other words how different is a DA body from a normal human?

Akasha hax.