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View Full Version : Fate/many fakes, an Idea/Discussion thread



Prince Charon
September 2nd, 2011, 11:12 PM
Idea inspired by Fate/strange fake (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Fate%2Fstrange_fake): Just because the Great Grail (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Grail) of Fuyuki was destroyed/dismantled after the Fifth War, doesn't mean everyone is going to give up on seeking the power it can grant. After the war, a number of attempts are made to revive the war, some involving the von Einzberns, some not, and perhaps a few attempts made in the original location, Fuyuki, much to Rin's disgust and offense.

Like Fate/sf, they're mostly (or all) going to be flawed copies, missing and/or distorting some aspects; for example, Servants being summoned into the Masters' bodies, leaving the Masters as passengers, at best, some or all of the Servants being False Servants (that is to say, local wraiths and other spirits taking the forms and approximate powers of fictional characters), or Rider Alexander the Great being summoned with EX rank Independent Action (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Parameters_and_Skills#Independent_Action) (awesome, but not something his Master would necessarily want - perhaps if that war hadn't been in northern Greece, it wouldn't have happened). Another example that popped into my head is Archer EMIYA being summoned, taking a look at what's going on, and then using Rule Breaker to free himself from his Master, and calling in the Magus Association to kill the people running this War before they can Break the Masquerade or bring the Counter Guardians down on the city from shear carelessness and idiocy.

The 'False Servants' variant could basically allow any crossover of characters that would otherwise make little to no sense in the Nasuverse, as long as you can translate their abilities into something that makes sense as a creation of a false Grail.

A couple examples of the 'all False Servants, don't all fit their Classes well' variant:

Archer J'onn J'onzz, Assassin Bruce Wayne, Berserker Orin, Caster Hal Jordan, Lancer Barry Allen, Rider Diana, and Saber Kal El.

They all have rank A or higher Luck and Independent Action. You can imagine how well their summoners' intentions go over with them. Of course, not all of their summoners will be evil, so, lets say that the teenager who summoned Assassin becomes the new Robin, and Saber was called by a crusading journalist and her photographer/apprentice, who mostly used their magic to get out of the situations that the journalist's nose for news and passion for justice got them into.

Another version would be summoning the classic Avengers - either Thor or Captain America could perhaps fit Saber, even though neither uses a sword, while Hawkeye's class is really, really obvious, and they have a fair number of possible Casters. The guy who summoned Berserker looks at the skinny guy in the lab coat, and immediately decides to activate Mad Enhance.

BAD IDEA!

VelspertheCat
September 2nd, 2011, 11:19 PM
Heh. Funny how things work out. The Tatari-Grail War in Apostles wound up with some of these set ups. Wallachia is providing Berserker a body while Kojibro is in Shiki Nanaya.

Prince Charon
September 3rd, 2011, 10:02 PM
Heh. Funny how things work out. The Tatari-Grail War in Apostles wound up with some of these set ups. Wallachia is providing Berserker a body while Kojibro is in Shiki Nanaya.
Huh. Interesting.

Prince Charon
October 25th, 2011, 08:33 AM
About a year or so after the UBW Good End, Shirou, Rin and Saber are at the Clocktower, and Shirou notices an oddly complex bruise on Saber's lower back. Rin confirms that these are almost certainly Command Seals, making Saber a Master in the next Holy Grail War. This is ridiculous and insane, of course, but perhaps its possible because Saber didn't actually die before becoming a Servant.

In Japan, Matou Sakura and Sajyou Ayaka (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_minor_characters_in_the_Fate_series#Sajyou _Ayaka) discover Command Seals, also in non-standard locations, Ayaka's on her neck, and Sakura's on her right thigh. Other Masters I'm not so clear on, but there's a group that's probably mostly OCs, who stimulated the Grail to start this War, and they're going to cause complications, even if none is chosen as a Master.

All the Servants summoned in this War are False Servants - spirits given the form, memories, and abilities of fictional characters - and all of them have some connection to the Master that is related to names, titles, or other conditions that shouldn't be sufficient to be considered a match, and is in some cases, quite tenuous.

Saber summons Caster (or Saber, or Rider) the Sword of the Jedi (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jaina_Solo), Sakura summons Assassin Haruno Sakura (post-Time Skip), and Ayaka summons Berserker Negi Springfield, which is nonsensical until you consider that she shares a first name with one of his students. See what I meant by tenuous? Rin is going to pitch a fit.

Another thought that occurred to me is that Hisui and Kohaku summon the Weasley Twins as Servant Prankster (both are pairs of redheaded twins, you see). The girls count as one Master (if one of them uses a Command Seal, the other looses that Seal's twin), and the boys as one Servant. I could see Sacchin perhaps being the Master of Archer Seras Victoria (http://hellsing.wikia.com/wiki/Seras_Victoria), both being reluctant vampires in short skirts.

A thought I had on Negi is that one of his Personal Skills is Kidanova: a Charisma-like ability to cause girls to want him, either immediately, or after a Reverse Genji Plan (raising him to be the perfect boyfriend and/or husband). this affects most of the girls, but Sakura's Shirou obsession makes her partly or fully immune (at most, she might want to take him home with her, but to raise him as Rin's boyfriend, so she could have Shirou, without hurting her sister), as would Saber's and Jaina's willpower. Rin's tsundere might make her resistant, and if she catches herself fantasizing about him, I could see her shouting 'Get out of my head!' and from there, jumping to the conclusion that its some kind of mind control. That conclusion would help anyone who believes her to resist, and would make a lot of sense to the guys. Negi, of course, has no clue, but if confronted with the evidence, might come to the conclusion that he's subconsciously manipulating people. After all, he's a genius, he's just inexperienced, and romantically oblivious.

amado
October 25th, 2011, 08:57 AM
I say get rid of sakura and negi.
negi since he's too imba in a grail war. even as a berserker, he'd move at the speed of lightning which is faster than any servant is capable of moving(yeah, even lancer and rider cant match that speed).
sakura being the weakest and annoying character in that list. also I find it hard to believe she'd fit in the assassin category.

amado
October 25th, 2011, 09:03 AM
oh and to avoid any storm thats gonna happen :fight:
I meant sakura haruno. :p

Prince Charon
October 25th, 2011, 09:38 AM
I say get rid of sakura and negi.
negi since he's too imba in a grail war. even as a berserker, he'd move at the speed of lightning which is faster than any servant is capable of moving(yeah, even lancer and rider cant match that speed).
sakura being the weakest and annoying character in that list. also I find it hard to believe she'd fit in the assassin category.
She's a ninja, and there's a reason I specified post-Time Skip. She's a lot more dangerous after two+ years of training with Tsunade (to the point that she would not be instantly curbstomped by Jaina, and is quite a bit stronger and faster than the Weasley twins - actually, she started out stronger and faster than them). Also, she has the med-nin skills to free Sakura from Zouken, which is something Sakura would want, and that desire contributed to her summoning.

Plus, the other Sakura that occurred to me was far to hax.

nununu
October 25th, 2011, 10:07 AM
Sakura wouldn't do the Assassin class justice. I vote for Sam Fisher as Assassin! And if you want a female Jedi for Saber, Fem!Revan would be better, I think.

Prince Charon
October 25th, 2011, 10:48 AM
Sakura wouldn't do the Assassin class justice. I vote for Sam Fisher as Assassin! And if you want a female Jedi for Saber, Fem!Revan would be better, I think.
You... might want to reread the OP.

Specifically, the third paragraph.

nununu
October 25th, 2011, 10:59 AM
Meh. Just lost all interests in this then.

reborn214
October 25th, 2011, 12:07 PM
You should have the nameless hero as one of your servants- a hero who appears in video games that never has any lines and whose name you make at the beginning whose only personality you decide through events like the hero from an Elder Scrolls game, Dark souls, or Fallout

Prince Charon
October 25th, 2011, 12:14 PM
You should have the nameless hero as one of your servants- a hero who appears in video games that never has any lines and whose name you make at the beginning whose only personality you decide through events like the hero from an Elder Scrolls game, Dark souls, or Fallout
Would need a reason that character fits the theme. This is one of the more screwed up Wars, after all.

reborn214
October 25th, 2011, 12:20 PM
That character is screwed up he never talks and is summoned as a reflection of the caster's personality. Imagine the summoner saying which class are you?..... Are you ignoring me which Class are you?.... Uses command seal WHO ARE YOU? ...... no comment. BLARGH. Or if their evil at the last minute when he is sure their loyal servant won it for them backstab for critical damage

Larekko12
October 25th, 2011, 06:02 PM
Sakura would make for a Powerful assasin. What you see in the story Post Time skip is here as a 15 year old bloodlineless Chunin competing with Jinchurruki, S-Class Nin, Bloodline Demigod freaks that could certainly break a Grail War wide open and keep on walking. Adn it is noted she is rapidly catching up to her 50+ year old legendary sensei while fifteen. Sakura can do stealth the only one you see her compete with are decades her senior, allies, or people with stealth penetration. I could reasonably, IMO, put her at B+ - A+ STR and the Same for AGI while chunin comparitively and you summon them at thier best. Please don't knock Sakura so bad and compare unfavorably to a normal human skilled though he may be.

amado
October 26th, 2011, 12:51 AM
Sakura would make for a Powerful assasin. What you see in the story Post Time skip is here as a 15 year old bloodlineless Chunin competing with Jinchurruki, S-Class Nin, Bloodline Demigod freaks that could certainly break a Grail War wide open and keep on walking. Adn it is noted she is rapidly catching up to her 50+ year old legendary sensei while fifteen. Sakura can do stealth the only one you see her compete with are decades her senior, allies, or people with stealth penetration. I could reasonably, IMO, put her at B+ - A+ STR and the Same for AGI while chunin comparitively and you summon them at thier best. Please don't knock Sakura so bad and compare unfavorably to a normal human skilled though he may be.

sure she's good but as a servant? not a chance.
she lacks the overall hax of one. check out the arena of mangafox or the OBD and you'll see...
besides, what would her noble phantasm be?
all she can do is punch craters and heal a bit.
not to mention her stealth is very poor considering a lot of times she's found out. an assassin is supposed to be someone who can sneak in and out without being found out. she'll serve better as a berserker really.

il reconsider it if you give me a fight where she won it herself and didnt have someone to help her win. and show some part where she was able to keep hidden and be stealthy without being found out.

Ergast
October 26th, 2011, 11:29 AM
Sakura would make for a Powerful assasin. What you see in the story Post Time skip is here as a 15 year old bloodlineless Chunin competing with Jinchurruki, S-Class Nin, Bloodline Demigod freaks that could certainly break a Grail War wide open and keep on walking. Adn it is noted she is rapidly catching up to her 50+ year old legendary sensei while fifteen. Sakura can do stealth the only one you see her compete with are decades her senior, allies, or people with stealth penetration. I could reasonably, IMO, put her at B+ - A+ STR and the Same for AGI while chunin comparitively and you summon them at thier best. Please don't knock Sakura so bad and compare unfavorably to a normal human skilled though he may be.

Haha no. Said demigod freaks wouldn't be able to fight head on and win against most of the Servants. Sure, they are powerful, but not as powerful as motherfucking Cu Chulainn, who is the fastest Servant when it comes to inmediate acceleration (and Saber with a command seal topped at mach 13.5, imagine what could Lancer do with that), to put an example. Medusa would destroy a Uchiha (and now they had been haxed even more, and I'm talking about those Uchihas) in a battle of eyes. Hell, EMIYA Archer is probably more powerful than the 90% of the top tier ninjas of Naruto. Yes, powerful. As in power, not in skill (in that he is more skilled than the 100% of the ninjas). And I haven't even touch the real top tier Servants. Saber would win a certain war in one day by herself. Heracles would be able to pierce whats-his-name ninja that has that impenetrable skin by sheer force, and Gilgamesh would have a relaxing day while pincushioning those mongrels.

Sakura is good, don't take me wrong, but at most she would have EMIYA's stats, but without his skills, his cheats and his hax. But I gave you that she would have a half-decent Presence concealment. Probably around B rank. So yes, she works as an Assassin.

Prince Charon
October 26th, 2011, 11:51 AM
It helps that the only Epic Servants in this War (in terms of direct combat) are Saber and probably Negi. Remember, its a screwed up fake, not a proper Holy Grail War. Negi might be to powerful for the way I imagine this War.

Ergast
October 26th, 2011, 12:24 PM
Yep, Negi is too powerful. Negima actually tops the Nasuverse in terms of power (except maybe the Types, and just maybe).

Sakura could actually be even a powerful Servant in this war (if you don't use Negi, that's it).

Prince Charon
October 26th, 2011, 03:44 PM
OK, either we need a replacement Servant for Ayaka that fits the strange rules, or Ayaka isn't one of those chosen, as I'm now not sure its possible for a False Negi to be formed in this War, first, because its a screwup, and second, because the Grand Holy Grail has only had about a year to accumulate prana.

Maybe a character played by Komatsu Ayaka (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Ayaka_Komatsu) (how powerful were the Senshi in the Live Action Sailor Moon series?), or Saito Ayaka (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Ayaka_Saitō)?

amado
October 26th, 2011, 09:14 PM
what ergast said.
naruto characters wouldnt last long in any of these.
adding negi would be over the top in hax. he'll beat anyone in the war(yes, even gil).

being a half-decent assassin is bad enough. assassin's are more or less used for scouting and sneaking around and not for direct fighting.
sakura might have great strength but overall she's outpaced by most of the other servants. medic skills wont come in handy in saving sakura from the worms.

so anyway, look for another sakura. maybe that sakura from cardcaptor...

reborn214
October 26th, 2011, 09:22 PM
Flonne heroine of justice as Assassin best sneaking skills ever nin nin

Prince Charon
October 26th, 2011, 10:19 PM
what ergast said.
naruto characters wouldnt last long in any of these.
adding negi would be over the top in hax. he'll beat anyone in the war(yes, even gil).

being a half-decent assassin is bad enough. assassin's are more or less used for scouting and sneaking around and not for direct fighting.
sakura might have great strength but overall she's outpaced by most of the other servants. medic skills wont come in handy in saving sakura from the worms.

so anyway, look for another sakura. maybe that sakura from cardcaptor...
OK, first, you underestimate Haruno Sakura by a lot, and second, if you think bringing Kinomoto Sakura is a good idea, you vastly, horrifically underestimate her, as well, since she's at or above Negi's level. Probably above, after she's gathered all the cards, and made them her own.

Of course, part of the reason I brought Negi in, is that there's a way to defeat him without fighting, and you'll see it, if you look at my earlier posts, and think about it.

Ergast
October 27th, 2011, 06:01 AM
Sakura Kinomoto is too broken. While I'm not sure she would be able to top a sane Negi (he is that broken once you think about him having literally lightning reflexes and speed, and being able to ignore pretty much anything physical except Rakan hits and a certain technique of the Shinmei Ryu and having some of the most powerful barrier and attack spells on his repertory), she can top any canon Servant if they don't surprise her (and with her precognition, that's a bit hard. She doesn't have the same instincts as Saber or Zerker, but still). Ironically, the Assassin Class is probably the only Servants that would be able to kill her, thanks to Presence Concealment.

Sakura Haruno is a decent Servant for this war, though, as, besides Negi, every other Servant is about her power level, or just a bit over her (and she is an assassin, so it's normal that she is below them)

About Flonne... she is too broken, too. Anything from Disgaeaverse is too broken. And I mean over CCS or Negima level of broken.

Mike1984
October 27th, 2011, 06:10 AM
medic skills wont come in handy in saving sakura from the worms.

Not true.

If nothing else, a decent medic could have aided Kotomine in removing them. A medic who was a heroic spirit should be able to heal her outright, IMO.

Prince Charon
October 27th, 2011, 10:54 AM
Sakura Kinomoto is too broken. While I'm not sure she would be able to top a sane Negi (he is that broken once you think about him having literally lightning reflexes and speed, and being able to ignore pretty much anything physical except Rakan hits and a certain technique of the Shinmei Ryu and having some of the most powerful barrier and attack spells on his repertory), she can top any canon Servant if they don't surprise her (and with her precognition, that's a bit hard. She doesn't have the same instincts as Saber or Zerker, but still). Ironically, the Assassin Class is probably the only Servants that would be able to kill her, thanks to Presence Concealment.
There's been some debate about CCS in a F/sn/CCS crossover on Spacebattles.com. Kinomoto Sakura has the Five True Magics at her fingertips (or at least, the ones we have a pretty good idea what they are), to varying degrees.


Sakura Haruno is a decent Servant for this war, though, as, besides Negi, every other Servant is about her power level, or just a bit over her (and she is an assassin, so it's normal that she is below them)
... or below her level. The only reason the Weasley twins are a significant threat is the ability to create traps, which is Servant Prankster's main strength. One way to win with Prankster is to get the other Servants to take out anyone with Independent Action, and then trick the other Masters into wasting their Command Seals.


About Flonne... she is too broken, too. Anything from Disgaeaverse is too broken. And I mean over CCS or Negima level of broken.
Yes. The Grail really has not accumulated enough prana to summon someone from Disgaea, outside of things like Prinnies. I'm not sure it can accumulate enough to summon Flonne.


Not true.

If nothing else, a decent medic could have aided Kotomine in removing them. A medic who was a heroic spirit should be able to heal her outright, IMO.
This. Seriously. I wasn't going to bother answering, but since Mike did, I might as well confirm it. Post Time Skip Haruno Sakura could certainly remove a few stubborn parasites. Really, I'm not going to pay attention to amado on this issue, anymore, as his opinion smacks of Haruno-bashing, and bad fanon.

Pre-TS, sure, she would have no idea what to do. Post-TS, the worms haven't got a chance.

reborn214
October 27th, 2011, 11:10 AM
Well the servants power levels do not matter but yeah Flonne is mainly a joke too OP, they just need to be reasonably close to each other by the way what about the masters? We should probably do them first and then find servants compatible to them.

Larekko12
October 27th, 2011, 01:15 PM
Ya know I did Say call Sakura post series at her indefintie peak like everyone else is called. I think I did anyway.

Fafnir
October 27th, 2011, 06:48 PM
About Flonne... she is too broken, too. Anything from Disgaeaverse is too broken. And I mean over CCS or Negima level of broken.
I dream of a Zetta vs Rakan fight.

But anyway. I agree that Haruno Sakura could probably de-worm her namesake. What about a *weak* summon from the Akamatsuverse? Like one of the minor characters of Negima, or a resident of Hinata-sou?

Prince Charon
October 27th, 2011, 07:23 PM
I dream of a Zetta vs Rakan fight.

But anyway. I agree that Haruno Sakura could probably de-worm her namesake. What about a *weak* summon from the Akamatsuverse? Like one of the minor characters of Negima, or a resident of Hinata-sou?
Like Kaolla Suu as Servant Gadgeteer?

Fafnir
October 27th, 2011, 07:35 PM
Like Kaolla Suu as Servant Gadgeteer? Exactly who I had in mind, except I was thinking a more canonical Rider. Saber Motoko would probably be too strong.

amado
October 27th, 2011, 10:14 PM
dont forget that the twins have flight. they can fly in their brooms and rain down spells on the servants.
I still dont agree on sakura here. sure she'd be able to get rid of those if we include kotomine but I dont think she'll be able to get rid of the parasites herself without killing sakura("opening" her up).
from the way I see it, bazett and souichiro can beat her up considering their own speed and power.

Prince Charon
October 27th, 2011, 10:39 PM
dont forget that the twins have flight. they can fly in their brooms and rain down spells on the servants.
I still dont agree on sakura here. sure she'd be able to get rid of those if we include kotomine but I dont think she'll be able to get rid of the parasites herself without killing sakura("opening" her up).
from the way I see it, bazett and souichiro can beat her up considering their own speed and power.
Right, like I said, your opinion of Haruno Sakura is worthless to me.

reborn214
October 27th, 2011, 10:55 PM
By the way what about the masters besides Saber and Ayaka

Larekko12
October 28th, 2011, 12:29 AM
She was dodging bullet hell Poisoned Kunai meant to be on a S-rank level. Several time in excess of modern day Machine Guns. She can pin them like flies with Kunai that out pace bullet and the Author say guns beat Shields of HP. You pull her at 25 for Servant game and she should have all of Tsunade's feats( including using Bunta hundred ton knife) and then some man. Stop knocking all her achievement man.

amado
October 28th, 2011, 12:52 AM
She was dodging bullet hell Poisoned Kunai meant to be on a S-rank level. Several time in excess of modern day Machine Guns. She can pin them like flies with Kunai that out pace bullet and the Author say guns beat Shields of HP. You pull her at 25 for Servant game and she should have all of Tsunade's feats( including using Bunta hundred ton knife) and then some man. Stop knocking all her achievement man.

wasnt that thanks to the old lady?
also, try talking it out with an arena member in mangafox or the outskirts battle dome forums.

reborn214
October 28th, 2011, 12:58 AM
Oh the delicious irony we will always debate about Sakura even if it isn't nasu Sakura

amado
October 28th, 2011, 01:05 AM
the speed of that "bullet poison kunais" =/= the speed of a normal bullet from an ordinary gun.
heck, you'd be able to kill several of the ninjas in naruto with a single gun. their speed are calced at around supersonic to low hypersonic(minato and naruto).
theres also on what noble phantasm you'd give sakura...

also, give me one fight she won herself and maybe il give her some credit...

Spinach
October 28th, 2011, 03:26 AM
You guys are forgetting something...

Assassin class Servants aren't MEANT to be as powerful as the other classes. They specialize in assassinating enemy Masters, not in fighting other Servants head on. Make her do ACTUAL ninja stuff and it might be interesting.

amado
October 28th, 2011, 04:57 AM
true but she still would need something hax to at least beat some servants on her own.
so far, the other servants might be weak physically and they make it up not cause of presence concealment, but because of special noble phantasms. like one being able to multiply and another being able to crush the heart.
theres also jacky, who can get an instant kill on any girl-at-night-in-a-fog.

well if she has a new jutsu that is pretty good, she might fit in.

...and theres also the fact that she's not assassin like. she might be good at sneaking but she's definitely not the type who'd kill. the other assassins have killed before. unless you make an AU sakura where she killed people and gradually got into it...
theres also the issue of noble phantasm. what would her noble phantasm be?

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 05:13 AM
You guys are forgetting something...

Assassin class Servants aren't MEANT to be as powerful as the other classes. They specialize in assassinating enemy Masters, not in fighting other Servants head on. Make her do ACTUAL ninja stuff and it might be interesting.

With Sakura as her master...? I'm not seeing her doing very much assassinating....

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 05:28 AM
theres also the issue of noble phantasm. what would her noble phantasm be?
Being useless without male assistance?

Prince Charon
October 28th, 2011, 06:09 AM
Being useless without male assistance?
That has nothing to do with her abilities, and everything to do with Kishimoto's sexism.

Also, I feel I should point out that the computer games are part of her Legend. Some of her Ougi from the games would qualify as NPs.

Spinach
October 28th, 2011, 07:07 AM
true but she still would need something hax to at least beat some servants on her own.

But.. The other Assassins, barring Kojirou, never beat other Servants on their own.


so far, the other servants might be weak physically and they make it up not cause of presence concealment, but because of special noble phantasms. like one being able to multiply and another being able to crush the heart.

Delusional Heartbeat isn't so easy to get off on an enemy, especially a Servant. FSN Hassan pulled it off with the Shadow holding down both Lancer and Saber when he used it, and even then, Saber resisted it, IIRC. The Hundred Faced Hassan splits his attributes between every copy, IIRC, so no matter how much he splits, he'll never be on par with other Servants.


theres also jacky, who can get an instant kill on any girl-at-night-in-a-fog.

Can be resisted with proper protection from curses.


With Sakura as her master...? I'm not seeing her doing very much assassinating....

I wasn't aware Sakura would be her Master. I still don't think that's justification to make her a monstrous powerhouse, just because Sakura wouldn't approve of her Servant slipping a dagger into the throat of a sleeping Master.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 07:11 AM
I wasn't aware Sakura would be her Master.

It's in the original idea....


I still don't think that's justification to make her a monstrous powerhouse, just because Sakura wouldn't approve of her Servant slipping a dagger into the throat of a sleeping Master.

Erm, what? I never said she should be.

However, her class makes absolutely no difference to how powerful she should be. There is no rule which says an Assassin must be weaker than the other servants, it's just how they usually turn out.

Spinach
October 28th, 2011, 07:14 AM
It's in the original idea....

I must be out of it, my bad.


Erm, what? I never said she should be.

Others seem to imply she should be, not you.


However, her class makes absolutely no difference to how powerful she should be. There is no rule which says an Assassin must be weaker than the other servants, it's just how they usually turn out.

This is true, but it's also boring to just put her on the same level as the other Servants and let her duke it out with them. I'd much rather see her stealth around like Solid Snake, setting up ambushes and stuff, rather than that.

And since this is an idea/discussion thread, I felt I would voice my opinion on the matter.

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 07:15 AM
There are very few Naruto ninjas that actually qualify for Assassin, truth to be told. The fact that something like Chidori is considered an assassination technique says a lot about the setting.

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 07:18 AM
Haku would be my choice. He also has a TARGIC backstory that would fit Sakura.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 07:20 AM
This is true, but it's also boring to just put her on the same level as the other Servants and let her duke it out with them. I'd much rather see her stealth around like Solid Snake, setting up ambushes and stuff, rather than that.

Except that, because she has Sakura as her master, she can't do that sort of thing, at least not against enemy masters.

That's not to say that she shouldn't use such tactics, but I don't think it's going to work as her sole method of fighting, because in the end she's going to have to defeat the servants, not the masters.


Haku would be my choice. He also has a TARGIC backstory that would fit Sakura.

Someone with healing magic who could remove the worms is a far better choice. Otherwise she can't really do anything....

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 07:27 AM
He has incredible anatomical and medical knowledge IIRC.

But if you want someone with healing magic out of the Naruotverse, maybe Tsunade or Kabuto? Kabuto would probably fit Assassin since he's the decieving type, and he could sever magic circuits by the power of PLOT, and disable enemy masters without killing them.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 07:32 AM
He has incredible anatomical and medical knowledge IIRC.

Not sure that can help Sakura, though. All the medical knowledge in the world won't allow you to heal something which can't be healed (by normal means)....


But if you want someone with healing magic out of the Naruotverse, maybe Tsunade or Kabuto? Kabuto would probably fit Assassin since he's the decieving type, and he could sever magic circuits by the power of PLOT, and disable enemy masters without killing them.

Yeah, I guess that's more plausible. I can certainly see Sakura being willing to use that, even (or, possibly especially) on Shirou. Although, if she's free of Zouken they'd probably ally anyway, so....

amado
October 28th, 2011, 07:40 AM
im all up for kabuto being the assassin instead of sakura.
would be interesting especially since he's not exactly a good person. id like to see him attempt to do some evil deeds and then got busted big time by sakura.

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 07:43 AM
He's not evil, he's just opportunistic.
At least he was when I stopped reading.

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 08:50 AM
Kabuto is not only a terrible choice, he's outright EVIL. He's possibly one of the most twisted characters in that universe, rivaling even Orochimaru.
Haku, on the other hand, is a perfect choice. He has a strong affinity with Sakura due to his backstory, he's strong, he's sneaky, he has an obvious Noble Phantasm and is actually a pretty nice guy. He'd be able to stop the worms using ice needles and acupuncture, but not remove them, helping Sakura while keeping the dramatic tension high, because as soon as he's killed his chakra would dissolve and the hibernated worms would awaken again. They are on the run from Zouken, they need to find a cure, and other Servants are gunning for their head. Will they find a way?

This is gonna be awesome.

amado
October 28th, 2011, 08:52 AM
well currently kabuto has gotten orochimaru's DNA and has snake abilities now. he also commands the undead now and the undead are able to regenerate from death.\

^haku's also good too.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 08:54 AM
Kabuto is not only a terrible choice, he's outright EVIL. He's possibly one of the most twisted characters in that universe, rivaling even Orochimaru.

Yeah, I don't think he fits at all, honestly.


Haku, on the other hand, is a perfect choice. He has a strong affinity with Sakura due to his backstory, he's strong, he's sneaky, he has an obvious Noble Phantasm and is actually a pretty nice guy. He'd be able to stop the worms using ice needles and acupuncture, but not remove them, helping Sakura while keeping the dramatic tension high, because as soon as he's killed his chakra would dissolve and the hibernated worms would awaken again. They are on the run from Zouken, they need to find a cure, and other Servants are gunning for their head. Will they find a way?

This is gonna be awesome.Well, half of the other masters would outright protect Sakura in such a situation, and without the worms she can keep him around indefinitely. But, the concept is most certainly interesting.

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 08:55 AM
well currently kabuto has gotten orochimaru's DNA and has snake abilities now. he also commands the undead now and the undead are able to regenerate from death.\

^haku's also good too.

Oh god, what happened to this Manga?

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 08:57 AM
Oh god, what happened to this Manga?It jumped so many sharks that even Kisame is confused.

amado
October 28th, 2011, 08:58 AM
Oh god, what happened to this Manga?

its an epic war against kabuto and madara vs. the whole ninja world(yes, they allied to each other).

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 08:59 AM
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Man, this thing started out so promising, the whole Zabuza Arc is still one of the best shonen arcs ever in my opinion.

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 09:00 AM
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Man, this thing started out so promising, the whole Zabuza Arc is still one of the best shonen arcs ever in my opinion.I hear you, bro. :(

Prince Charon
October 28th, 2011, 09:18 AM
OK, how do you connect Haku's name with Sakura?

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 10:09 AM
Haku means white, and Dark Sakura has white hair?

... yeah, I have no clue.

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 10:10 AM
Well, since Sakura is such an incredibly common name I guess you could find someone else fitting the Assassin container.

amado
October 28th, 2011, 10:25 AM
or just pick another servant class. it doesnt have to be assassin.

reborn214
October 28th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Solid Snake?

Spinach
October 28th, 2011, 10:32 AM
Solid Snake?

Please yes.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 10:45 AM
No, she needs someone who can actually help her. An Assassin with no healing powers is totally useless to her, unless they have some sort of "sure-kill" ability that will allow them to take out Zouken without harming Sakura.

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 11:55 AM
Obvious solution: Let's have a grail war with seven assassins, trolololol

Prince Charon
October 28th, 2011, 11:57 AM
My main objection to not using Haruno Sakura, I'll admit, is not wanting to give in to the pointless Haruno-bashing.

The 'seven Assassins' idea has merit, though.

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 12:02 PM
I like Haruno, but she's got the mentality of a knight class.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 12:05 PM
My main objection to not using Haruno Sakura, I'll admit, is not wanting to give in to the pointless Haruno-bashing.

The 'seven Assassins' idea has merit, though.

Well, ignore the bashing, and simply look at whether she makes sense for the role. Like some have said, it's debateable if she fits the "Assassin" class that well, despite being a Ninja, because she doesn't really actually kill people.

I3uster
October 28th, 2011, 12:10 PM
My main objection to not using Haruno Sakura, I'll admit, is not wanting to give in to the pointless Haruno-bashing.

The 'seven Assassins' idea has merit, though.
Haruno (much more comfortable than getting Sakuras mixed up) has the same problem Sasuke has though. She gets hints of character development that would turn her into a decent and likeable character and then takes the complete detour.
In her case she starts out as inconfident unlikeable agressive bitch that thinks way too high of herself, only to be brought down to earth when the real fighting starts, then she gets resolve and seems to grow into the role of team medic and likeable, reliable and confident character, only to turn into a useless ball of SAVE SASKAY again when the plot demands it.

It's like Kishi knew that he built his characters too cliched and tried to do something different, only that "something different" does not always mean "something better". Which is sad.

reborn214
October 28th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Quick question what are we debating about? Who is Sakura's servant, who is Assassin, or should we include Sakura(Naruto)? Because Sakura doesn't have to summon Assassin, and Sakura(Naruto) doesn't have to be that.

Prince Charon
October 28th, 2011, 02:42 PM
I doubt Haruno qualifies for Servant Berserker (unless you count the existence of Inner Sakura - which would lead to an especially strange form of Mad Enhancement - or something happened in a chapter I haven't read), but her unarmed combat skills would work for the Fighter/Striker class, and her other abilities would work for the Caster or Healer classes.

EDIT: Found a few of Sakura's Ougi from the game (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Naruto+Sakura+ougi&aq=f) (which as I said, is part of her Legend). Note that only a couple require outside help.... mind you, Rider Iskander has a NP that involves summoning his army, so she might be able to summon Chiyo or Naruto. That's probably to OP for this War, though, even with Rin's sister supplying her with prana.

Mike1984
October 28th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Giving Sakura a Berserker-class servant sounds like a seriously bad plan if you want her to actually be useful....

Prince Charon
October 28th, 2011, 05:50 PM
Giving Sakura a Berserker-class servant sounds like a seriously bad plan if you want her to actually be useful....
Correct. Luckily, whatever the unarmed combatant class ends up being called (Striker?), its distinct from Berserker. Servant Healer is probably not so great as a class concept, unless you're on a team, or Healer has the ability to buff you like Caster does.

Huh, Shirou with Servant Healer, so he can stupidly rush into combat with Epic Heroes and fight as one of them (mind you, he already does that, but this time, he's much less likely to die). Thus, they believe that Shirou is the Servant, and Healer the Master. So, they go after Healer, and discover that The Hand That Heals Can Also Harm.

That doesn't fit Haruno, of course (though Sakura would have no problem loaning Shirou her Servant), she's to much of a front line fighter, but there are other Healers in fiction that would work.

Larekko12
October 28th, 2011, 08:51 PM
Sakura should be able to pull medic feat like that limitedr removal sthick and anything you see Tsuchan and Kabuto do that is not necromancy or established specialist seals. Also has she signed the toad contract?

Fafnir
October 28th, 2011, 08:54 PM
If Sakura signed anything, it'd be the slug contract.

Ergast
October 29th, 2011, 04:40 AM
I dream of a Zetta vs Rakan fight.

But anyway. I agree that Haruno Sakura could probably de-worm her namesake. What about a *weak* summon from the Akamatsuverse? Like one of the minor characters of Negima, or a resident of Hinata-sou?

Well, Keitaro, Motoko, Seta and Tsuruko are out. Keitaro and Seta are literally inmortals, and able to fight against Motoko and Tsuruko and win, and Motoko can control the Hina blade. Translating that into the Negima series, it means that she is more powerful than Setsuna. And Tsuruko is suposedly about her sister in skill, although not quite as powerful.


Exactly who I had in mind, except I was thinking a more canonical Rider. Saber Motoko would probably be too strong.

Over Setsuna in powerlevels, and Setsuna is pretty powerful. Also, the Shinmei ryu ni no tachi techniques are specially made to deal with spirits. Any time she use it, one servant would fall.

Prince Charon
May 17th, 2012, 01:27 PM
In a café in New York City, a pair of Japanese tourists, accompanied by a Greek woman who fit many a man's 'Hot Librarian' fantasies, were staring in horror at the marks that had just appeared on the young man's hand.

"Command Seals," the tall woman, who's passport identified her as 'Rider Medusa', said, "but not linked to me. Still, I feel like the Grail, or something like it, is here in this city."

"I- I'm going to call Nee-chan, now," said Sakura, going for her cellphone.

"We passed a butcher's shop back there," said Shirou, pointing, "we ought to be able to get enough blood to draw a proper summoning circle. Erm, what kind are we supposed to use, anyway?"

Waiting for Rin to pick up, Sakura answered, "Any kind, or even blood from several species. Ah, Nee-chan, we've run into a bit of a snag, here- no, we aren't in jail!"

As Sakura tried to explain the situation to a worried and frequently interrupting Rin, Shirou paid the bill (good thing the tip was build in, so he didn't forget it), took his wife's unoccupied hand, and lead the group back to the butcher's shop. The transaction was harder than it needed to be, as none of them could remember the Engrish word for 'blood', and the butcher didn't speak Japanese, nor Ancient Greek. Fortunately, Rin could: 'buraado'. That wasn't quite right, but it got the message across.

------------

Outside the city, in an abandoned farmhouse, a pair of magi, master and apprentice, were casting their own summoning.

"... my oath. I am the one who becomes all the good of the world of the dead, I am the one who lays out all the evil of the world of the dead.

You, seven heavens clad in three words of power, arrive from the ring of deterrence, O keeper of the balance!"

In a flash of light and a puff of smoke, a figure appeared in the circle. As the smoke disappated, they could see red boots and a red cape, blue tights on the legs of an athlete, red trunks with a golden belt, a blue shirt stretched over muscular torso and arms, bearing a distinctive red and gold shield, black hair with that spit-curl, and piercing blue eyes set in a face that made the Master, a seventh generation magus, daughter of a Wizard Marshal, and a journalist who'd spent a year in Afganistan covering the war, feel like a blushing schoolgirl.

"Servant Saber," said the man, looking over the lovely, brown-haired woman, and excited, red-haired and freckled boy, "your names wouldn't happen to be Lois and Jimmy, would they?"

"Ah, no, Lydia Landau," said the woman, pushing an errant strand of hair behind her ear. "I am a reporter, though, as well as a magus. This is my apprentice and photographer."

"Johnny Olcott, sir," the boy answered.

"I'm Superman," he told them, "but then, you knew that. Feels odd to know I'm fictional, but I've had stranger adventures."

------------

"A cave?" asked Shirou.

"It has the right combination of accessibility, concealment, and low chance of anyone walking in on us," said Rider.

"I didn't know New York had so many bats," said Sakura, looking up to the roof of the cave.

"They're insectivores," said Shirou. "Maybe some fruit bats that escaped from a zoo, but all the ones native to New York are bug-eaters." At Sakura's surprised look, he said "You wanted me to find another interest that had nothing to do with being a hero, and bats are neat."

It didn't take them long to draw the circle, and then, for the first time, Shirou recited the words of the summoning. The result was not at all what they'd been expecting. For one thing, Arturia was a lot shorter than that.

What appeared in the circle was a figure of shadow, topped by a cowl with pointed ears. "Servant... Assassin," he said with disgust.

"B-Batoman?!" Shirou and Sakura shouted, shocked.
__________________________________________________ ________________________

In case anyone couldn't guess, this is post some version of HF True End. Rin is at the Clocktower, and I'm going to declare that for this universe, most or all instruction there is in Latin, which is why her English is still at the 'funny foreigner' level. Shirou has Rule Breaker in his arsenal, so killing is likely to be fairly unnecessary. Given Archer's ability to turn a sword into an arrow, it may be possible for Shirou to reshape Rule Breaker into a batarang, even though he had less contact with Archer, here (or, maybe it's an AU of HF, where he had more contact with Archer). This may or may not be a version where Rin has Saber or Saber Alter.

Thought of several places it could go from here:

The rest of the JLA, or some version thereof, are summoned (in which case, the War is likely to be rather short and odd - one version of that had Sakura also getting Command Seals, and summoning another female, Greek, Rider: Wonder Woman). In the same vein, the JSA are summoned. Either way, if they stay in the World, the conflict is likely to be Superheroes vs the Mages Association.

Only two or three heroes are summoned, the rest being villains, like the Joker or Solomon Grundy as Berserker, or Felix Faust as Caster.

Its all fictional characters, but not all from the DCU. Perhaps a Marvel crossover, with Bruce Banner as Berserker.