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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #20001
    Kirgin Vitchen Apple's Avatar
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    Nah, Shirou would never do it. He's too thickheaded to bother with such advanced base concepts as betrayal.

    The only reason why he ever used Rule Breaker was because he wanted some ass, plain and simple

  2. #20002
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Did bazett fight archer in HA? And if so, what happened?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

  3. #20003
    I don't think they ever fought. Besides Saber, Lancer, and I think maybe Berserker all the Servants she fights should be 3rd war Servants. We do know she defeated every Servant except Berserker before fighting Saber during the scene you first see Fragrach. Though that loop she probably fought a different Lancer.
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  4. #20004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple View Post
    Nah, Shirou would never do it. He's too thickheaded to bother with such advanced base concepts as betrayal.

    The only reason why he ever used Rule Breaker was because he wanted some ass, plain and simple
    Not really. Shirou isn't someone who naturally goes around betraying people, but if it was the only way to save someone, I think he'd happily do it.

  5. #20005
    月読 Tsukiyomi Junky's Avatar
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    What happens to Avalon and Archer's arm after HF True End? Both of them were spiritual structures, right? They should be connected to his soul, so don't they get reformed within his puppet body? Also, I understand that there was some anomaly with his magic circuits because he had 27 vs. Touko's 20. What exactly does this mean?

  6. #20006
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Avalon was a conceptual weapon, not anything spiritual. It wouldn't have stayed with him.

    Shirou has 27 low quality circuits, the average magus has 20 mid quality. Circuit count is luck, pretty much.
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  7. #20007
    I don't think there has been anything said about the quality of Shirou's circuits. Touko's are supposed to be specially super precise (we have no idea what this means).
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  8. #20008
    月読 Tsukiyomi Junky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terraablaze View Post
    I don't think there has been anything said about the quality of Shirou's circuits. Touko's are supposed to be specially super precise (we have no idea what this means).
    Quote Originally Posted by TYPE-MOON Wiki
    However, because Aozaki Tohko had less Magic Circuits than Shirou, the transference of prana is bad. It seems that in this state, the strong point about Shirou’s basic body is that because it was repainted by the soul the original one became ordinary, but the flaws of the original were retained as they were.
    Also, if Avalon did not remain within Shirou's body, where did it go? I forgot that it was not a copy of the Noble Phantasm summoned from the Throne but an actually existing Noble Phantasm on the planet. In that case, you're right, it isn't a spiritual structure. However, Archer's arm should be.

  9. #20009
    >>Someone using TYPE-MOON Wiki as a source

    TAKE COVER!!!
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  10. #20010
    月読 Tsukiyomi Junky's Avatar
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    I wasn't using it as a source. I'm asking questions, not answering them. What I want is verification. If that's wrong, you could simply say that, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by terraablaze View Post
    >>Someone using TYPE-MOON Wiki as a source

    TAKE COVER!!!

  11. #20011
    I was more referring to the fact that the moment any of the senior members of the forum see you quoting Type Moon wiki there will be an outrage. Honestly I have no idea what that gobbly gook is even supposed to mean.
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  12. #20012
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junky View Post
    Also, if Avalon did not remain within Shirou's body, where did it go? I forgot that it was not a copy of the Noble Phantasm summoned from the Throne but an actually existing Noble Phantasm on the planet. In that case, you're right, it isn't a spiritual structure. However, Archer's arm should be.
    It's a spiritual structure, but even in HF, they say he could get rid of it just by cutting it off. It's not as if it's irreversibly attached to him.
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  13. #20013
    月読 Tsukiyomi Junky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    It's a spiritual structure, but even in HF, they say he could get rid of it just by cutting it off. It's not as if it's irreversibly attached to him.
    So Archer's arm was cut off?

    P.S. Sorry about the questions but I lost my saves from my last installation and don't have access to Rin's explanation in the Epilogue. Nor do I remember if she even mentioned anything about Archer's arm or Avalon. I'm playing through again though.

  14. #20014
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    His body was destroyed in the cavern. They had to get an entirely new body for him.

    You could say his body was cut off.
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  15. #20015
    月読 Tsukiyomi Junky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    His body was destroyed in the cavern. They had to get an entirely new body for him.

    You could say his body was cut off.
    Aren't magic circuits in the soul?

    What I meant to ask is--because Archer's arm was connected via spiritual surgery, shouldn't it be reproduced in a puppet body?

  16. #20016
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    It became Shirou's arm- just an arm, it was connected to his body, not his soul.
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  17. #20017
    Vigilant. Relied Upon. Vigilantia's Avatar
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    Think of it like a bionic arm on his original body. Yes, it was a Servant's arm and gave him amazing "hax" abilities but it wasn't grafted to his soul or anything. Once he died in the cave I'ed presume it simply disappeared (As without a source of prana or body to connect to it would disappear just like a regular Servant) and there is now a Shirou corpse with only 1 arm buried somewhere while Shirou's soul inhabits a puppet.

    As for Avalon... /shrug. Anyone know how a de-materialized Avalon works if the host body dies? Maybe it just stays de-materialized until a magus materializes it... meaning its still in Shirou's old original body.


    Here's a question of my own: The faeries created Avalon and gave Saber Excalibur. Just how powerful are these faeries then and what powers do they have (if Nasu ever elaborated on any of that).

  18. #20018
    The soul-body dichotmy in Nasu land is weird. The body affects the soul and vice versa. Shirou's case is even weirder because they used the Third Magic, a true miracle that is impossible to replicate any other way, to recreate his body temporarily in a Platonically true and perfect self (so probably no Archer arm), and then shoved him into Ilya's body with the help of Rider's pendant (mentioned in Complete Material 3, makes no sense). Maybe if they had somehow managed to only transfer his consciousness some boring normal way it would still be "attached" in the same way Roa's incarnations all become vampires (because vampirism effects the soul).

    But as eddyak said, if he ever wanted to get rid of it all he has to do is cut it off.

    ^
    Gaia made Excalibur and gave it to the faieries to guard, Excalibur is called a "divine forged" weapon.
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  19. #20019
    I told 'em, I told 'em. Bugrit! eddyak's Avatar
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    and then shoved him into Ilya's body with the help of Rider's pendant
    Rin's pendant. The little bit of magic left in Rin's pendant helped keep his soul there until they could stick it in another body.
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  20. #20020
    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junky View Post
    What happens to Avalon and Archer's arm after HF True End? Both of them were spiritual structures, right? They should be connected to his soul, so don't they get reformed within his puppet body? Also, I understand that there was some anomaly with his magic circuits because he had 27 vs. Touko's 20. What exactly does this mean?
    The arm would disappear, Avalon you would have to ask Nasu. The only thing wrong with his body, as Sakura reported it:

    "I see. But Senpai says it's fine as it is. The magical energy doesn't flow well, but everything else's better than before.


    …Um, I think so too."
    The one thing that is particularly vague and confusing is this part:

    Shirou's current body has a very weak Magic Circuit, so he would return to how he was before without her help.
    IIRC Rin hadn't done a complete evaluation on his body from before, so the 27 circuits and all that might be something she missed. So it's not really clear if his body actually got weaker, or if she missed something before it was destroyed.
    As that information is incomplete, who knows? The interesting part of that is "he would return to how he was before". Who knows what that means.



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