Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Neir]

I think it's easier to understand Kohaku's (since it's closer to something that actually happens to people rather than MAJIK WURMS), plus she goes into more detail about it, so it has more impact. Plus stuff like the diary, brrrrr.

Yeah, for all that I prefer Fate to Tsukihime, I feel like Kohaku's route was the best written. Easily the most upsetting.

[Altima of the Gates]

Mike's going to jump all over me again, but judging from Kotomine and Rin's comments I sort of wonder at times whether Sakura's situation being difficult to empathize with was part of the point. Not that people shouldn't try to help her but trying to take on some of her pain and understand it is stupid, unhealthy, and unnecessary.

I won't jump on you for it, but I will say that I disagree. But I also see where you're coming from. Like you said, that gives no bearing AT ALL whether or not she should be helped (and she does need help, she even showed that she still felt a large part of the guilt, even if it wasn't her fault at the end of HF True, and I think even with Shirou, there would be much nightmares and other shit going on for awhile that even his presence can't remedy).

I do however, not think it is stupid to try to understand. Shirou himself says in his conversation with Rider in the yard that he understands that he shouldn't say to Sakura that he "understands" and realizes his can't ever do that. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't try as her lover and support her. It's one of the times I really clicked with Shirou, one of the times he seemed very mature, and Rider saw that.

Though you can't understand another person's pain, that doesn't at all mean that you shouldn't at some level step out of yourself and see things from a different point of view. Not understanding would be no excuse for not thinking. But I won't condemn someone for not seeing things the way I do.

[Tobias]

^ This. He goes on about Rin being a cold bitch or some other stupid shit like that, but the fact is, Rin literally can't imagine what she's gone through.

Wasn't that always because he felt rin should have noticed her situation? As opposed to anything rin said during the routes? Could be wrong.

[Neir]

Japan's social services need a tip on the Matou household. Tohno house needs a fucking SWAT team.

[eddyak]

Wasn't that always because he felt rin should have noticed her situation? As opposed to anything rin said during the routes? Could be wrong.

I was talking about his "lol Rin should've gone completely out of character and told Sakura she understands and loves her instead of telling her she wasn't going to try to understand what she went through".

[terraablaze]

@Altima
I am going to respond with that is Shirou and it is what he does. Of course he will do it even if it hurts him or if it is bad for him, and that is fine because that is what he does. I was talking more about normal people. Pity seems to be given the bottom rung amongst all the virtues in the Nasuverse.
There is a bit of a difference between understanding her situation and wanting to get her out of it, and reciprocating her emotions. I would personally say there is a bit of a difference between loving someone and feeling their pain.

[Altima of the Gates]

@Altima
There is a bit of a difference between understanding her situation and wanting to get her out of it, and reciprocating her emotions. I would personally say there is a bit of a difference between loving someone and feeling their pain.

Yes, there is most certianly a difference, but that does not mean that one is always mutually exclusive from the other.

And really for that matter, what is a 'normal' person?

[terraablaze]

Not the admittedly-often repeated-super broken Shirou. Just trying to keep the discussion within the confines of the ethical framework I can guess the author has built in the works since that is how the characters were/will be written.
For me pity really does nothing for the person you are feeling it for, it just hurts yourself.

[Altima of the Gates]

For me pity really does nothing for the person you are feeling it for, it just hurts yourself.

Exactly, which is why you don't just feel for the person, you help them out. But in the end I don't think it is worthless to make the attempt. It would just would be worthless to dwell on that instead of doing what you could to help at the same time.

But really, we are talking in circles here.

[Hermitfold]

I may be weird here, but the character I feel the greatest pity for in the Nasuverse is SHIKI. Poor guy never had a shot, and his life sucks in the worst possible fashion.

[Milbunk]

He's the Shinji of Tsukihime.

[Neir]

You're not alone. Drinking Dreaming Moon only solidified that for me, too. He was jealous of Shiki, yeah, but not overly so. If it weren't for his inversion, they'd probably have stayed the best of friends. ._.

[Hermitfold]

What makes SHIKI's situation really pop out at me, was the fact that, as bad as Sakura and Kohaku had it, at least there were people there who cared. He didn't even have that. He dies, and because of Makhasa's shenanigans, it's like he never existed at all.

[Neir]

Not only that, he's locked in a basement while his friend took everything that used to be his, including his life.

[Kotonoha]

What makes SHIKI's situation really pop out at me, was the fact that, as bad as Sakura and Kohaku had it, at least there were people there who cared. He didn't even have that. He dies, and because of Makhasa's shenanigans, it's like he never existed at all.

Oh god this ;_;

[Hermitfold]

You know, I always found it odd, that Shiki and Kokaku, the two people who would be justified in hating SHIKI never held it against him, while Akiha and Hisui...

[Neir]

Well, Kohaku was ALL KINDS of fucked up by that point. But yeah, she never hated him, I think.

[food]

What makes SHIKI's situation really pop out at me, was the fact that, as bad as Sakura and Kohaku had it, at least there were people there who cared. He didn't even have that. He dies, and because of Makhasa's shenanigans, it's like he never existed at all.

Translation:

Mike, I am back.

ARE YOU READY!?

[Neir]

Translation:

Mike, I am back.

ARE YOU READY!?

Food, that was the funniest thing I've ever seen you post. Thank you.

[Hermitfold]

Translation:

Mike, I am back.

ARE YOU READY!?

Err, what?

I've 'been back' a while, though I haven't been posting much.

And even Mike has the capability to be reasonable.