He said Kotomine would win.Originally Posted by LeopardBear
I would think that means at least he would incapacitate her.
I think I get this now. The text said Liz was "built" as a sample of Ilya, while it says Sella was "born".
Probably the ether blob know as Liz existed long before Ilya, as a trial run for a Minor Grail (Ilya). After Ilya was born, the blob was given sentience, and made into Liz.
Its probably talking about after roa!paradox. otherwise ciel would just keep getting back up till the boost ended and kirei would lose
You know, winning a fight, and actually killing somebody are different.
Well regardless, it doesn't matter. Either way, Kotomine would 'win', but if it's Roa!paradox, Ciel resurrects and eventually wears him down, but if it's after she just dies. However, either way Kotomine 'won' the first fight.
Think of it like Gae Bolg and Arcueid
<Satehi> I, satehi, thought of tentacles first for entirely inappropriate, disgusting, lewd and perverted reasons
Honk
Hero Kotomine's victory is accounting for Ciel's full immortality and special bloodline. Nasu said normally these factors will cause Ciel to completely dominate Kotomine, but Hero Kotomine will win despite all the advantage Ciel has over him.
Which is why I said Hero Kotomine would faceroll Ciel, because he can actually win against an immortal opponent who just heal through normal damage. (Probably beat Ciel up so bad, it takes her a good amount of time to recover.)
EDIT:
It is the same principle as Ciel must fight defensively against a Servant. Servants can't kill her, but they sure can blast her until she can't get up, thus win.
Last edited by food; April 25th, 2011 at 07:06 PM.
Are you sure? Because the translation from CM2 that arai posted on the old BL doesn't say that he will win. See,
It says that he can take on her, it doesn't say that he would win. He might win or he might not, we don't really know.Kotomine and Ciel
Ciel is overwhelmingly stronger than older Kotomine, but the Zero Kotomine that was kicking ass with Command Spells could take on Ciel.
So I'm guessing it would be like what Roa did in her route, nailing her to the floor with all those swords.
Hope Rides With His Godly Ronin/Cowboy Brother In Law
this is closer to the translations I had always heard of, but its not like we can actually see the original text. my guess, either somebody rushed it then, or drinks flubbed it now.It says that he can take on her, it doesn't say that he would win. He might win or he might not, we don't really know.
Except that, it says he would win. So we do know.
And I don't think it's too particularly hard to incapacitate someone while they're dead. Just strip her naked and throw her corpse in a concrete box or something before she revives, I dunno. Might have to kill her a few times while she's in the process of healing to get it done, but no biggie.
Nope. And it's from an interview portion, so no "Nasu didn't write the CM books" loopholes.
I stand behind my translation.
It says "the Kotomine at that time (4th War) will even triumph over Ciel".
The specific word is "勝て", which is specifically "triumph, victory".
Alright, good, someone who speaks moon rune backs me up.
EDIT:
@Dartz,
That wasn't arai's translation, that was his "quick-and-dirty-telling-you-guys-what's-going-on-summary".
The actual interview goes on for half a page.
Last edited by food; April 25th, 2011 at 07:17 PM.
Her regeneration is pretty powerful. She regenerated in a few minutes after getting torn to pieces by Arcueid in unrestricted mode, which is unarguably stronger than any Servant. Unless they deal unhealable damage, she'll regenerate in a few minutes.
Ah ok.
Last edited by Dartz; April 25th, 2011 at 07:21 PM.
I dunno. HA still says Leysritt was created to be Illya's Mystic Code and is "literally" a part of Illya. Seems like that's something they'd have to plan in advance instead of a Plan B.
question, if 10 command spells take any shmuch to servant level, how many did he use?
He didn't use all the command spells he got against Kiritsugu, because he supposed to have 10 left to fight True Assassin in the first script. Nasu planned to have him unleash 10 command spells against True Assassin, but didn't get a chance, because apparently his excuse was "True Assassin was not reliable (and got pwn'd before the awesomeness would happen)".
I know, I was trying to define "hero" kotomine. is that the one that fought kiritsugu, or a theoretical one that burned everything at once and immediately leaped into mid servant tier.
well, anyways, hang with me, I am gonna take this new information and throw out a few questions/thoughts.
first off, lets clarify if possible, does a human refer to like a really good human, in otherwords, kirei? or if I used 10 command spells, I would suddenly become servant tier.
and, on that note, servant level enemies tend to have effects on the level of noble phantasm, aoko has her magic, kouma has his demon blood, but I gather that boost refers to raw stats, so, to compensate, are those stats even higher then that of a theoretical "average" servant?
Didn't he use them to heal Sakura in HF?
Certainly that's the only logical interpretation I can think of for a crest which gets used up, especially since his father was not a magus and, thus, did not possess a crest of his own.
OK, "Hero Kotomine" is the Kotomine standing before Kiritsugu in Zero before the duel. Basically, if you give Kiritsugu ALL of Ciel's abilities, Hero Kotomine will faceroll him.
The 10 command spells statement is a generic statement, so it's like, "for someone living today to be able to dent a Servant, he needs 10 command spell-worth of power". If you want to chew words, it says human, as in generic human, not superman or magi.
The command spell in this case, in my opinion, refers to miracles. Like say, you cast reinforce LVL 1 with the command spell, you suddenly got Medea-level godly enchant instead of reinforcement LVL1.
The Profile in CM2 says Liz was the Grail, but failed. The Dress of Heaven part is probably her duty as a failure, in order to capitalise on her Grail properties.
The obvious implication seems to be that never happened or happened differently in the first script, since he has 1 (or 2? can't remember exactly) command spell mentioned amongst his equipment.
@Tobias
He is already scraping Servant level as an old dude in Fate/Stay Night so no you would probably just tear your body to shreds.
And wow it really says it overcomes her Immortality and magus bloodline, amazing.
Edit: never mind it seems food has his own ideas so I guess that explains how Kotomine could melt TA's face.
I think? Probably Nasu just reworked the "Heal Sakura" scene so that it required the seals instead Kotomine's hax skills being sufficient, after he realized that the awesome TA finale fight wouldn't actually be that awesome on account of TA being such a wimpy Servant. Or added it in outright as an excuse to burn the seals, as opposed to just having some kind of Angra Mainyu wackiness resolve everything.
I noticed that.
I DON'T KNOW WHICH TO BELIEEEEEVE
I wonder how many command spells kirei used then to reach "hero" level. or rather, how much strengthening was required to create "hero" kotomine. he had 10 left over for a theoretical fight for assassin, do we have a number on what he started with?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
