Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Iceblade44]

Spoiler:

it's cute

So Caligula is a Iskandar fan huh, expected really considering he once grave robbed his breastplate.

[Mazyrian]

I think you would be hard pressed to find somebody not an Iskandar fan on the roman world

[castor212]

What was TM interpretation of Nero mass genocide stuffs again?

[Seika]

What was TM interpretation of Nero mass genocide stuffs again?

Nero never perpetrated anything close to a genocide. (Given that racial theory wasn't much of a thing until very late in history, and the degree to which the Classical world in particular was pretty relaxed about it - not discounting simple xenophobia at all - the extent to which anyone could commit 'genocide' back then is very questionable).

I imagine there's some more direct commentary, but what I'm aware of is her Matrix lumping in the Christian persecution with the other unpopular deeds of her reign, as exaggerated by her historiographical enemies. Which, at least in terms of the contemporary, pagan writers, is probably rather less fair than noting that she responded promptly and generously to the Great Fire and was almost certainly not responsible for it.

Nero reigned as emperor during the years 54 to 64 AD. Although most surviving contemporary accounts paint her as a vicious tyrant who disregarded the Senate and violently oppressed the nascent Christian movement, many scholars believe that these accounts were an attempt to discredit her, as she incredibly popular with the citizenry.

Whatever the case, her infamy is such that some theorize that the Book of Revelations found in the Vulgate Bible was written as commentary on and reaction to her supposed repression of the Christian faith, and have gone so far as to make the case that Hebrew pronunciation of her imperial name (Caesar) -NRVN QSR- is the same as the phrase "Number of the Beast."

However, this has been proven to be patently false, as that term commonly referred to Rome itself, and not to any one individual, royal or otherwise.

...

While popular abroad and with the lower castes at home, the Senate and the higher caste members of the empire grew weary of her populist policies, extravagant expenditures on public entertainments, and occasionally irrational repression of religious expression.

[castor212]

I apologize for thinking genocide is just mostly about the mass killing

About Great Fire stuffs, so TM doesnt exactly touch it i assume


Thanks for the answer

[forumghost]

Nero did nothing wrong

[Seika]

Oh, no, they talk about it; they're just (IMO) historically accurate instead of going with the popular version.

03 - The Great Fire of RomeJuly 19, 64 AD.
A devastating fire erupted in one of the poorer districts of Rome and quickly spread throughout the city, reducing most of it to ashes. Contrary to popular belief, Nero quickly responded to the disaster and even contributed to relief efforts out of her own personal funds. While she became immensely popular with the common citizenry, her populist policies combined with her sometimes bizarre predilections earned her the ire of not only the higher castes, but also of historians who insist on painting her as a tyrant.

sed solacium populo exturbato ac profugo campum Martis ac monumenta Agrippae, hortos quin etiam suos patefecit et subitaria aedificia extruxit quae multitudinem inopem acciperent; subvectaque utensilia ab Ostia et propinquis municipiis pretiumque frumenti minutum usque ad ternos nummos.

But, as a refuge for the ousted and exiled populace, the Campus Martius and the works of Agrippa, and even his own gardens were opened up by Nero; he also threw up temporary buildings which sheltered the helpless multitude. And he brought up necessities from Ostia and the nearby towns, and dropped the price of grain to three sesterces.

Ceterum urbis quae domui supererant non, ut post Gallica incendia, nulla distinctione nec passim erecta, sed dimensis vicorum ordinibus et latis viarum spatiis cohibitaque aedificiorum altitudine ac patefactis areis additisque porticibus quae frontem insularum protegerent. eas porticus Nero sua pecunia extructurum purgatasque areas dominis traditurum pollicitus est. addidit praemia pro cuiusque ordine et rei familiaris copiis finivitque tempus intra quod effectis domibus aut insulis apiscerentur.

The other districts of the City, unconquered by the palace, were not - as happened after the Gallic fire - rebuilt indiscriminately, here and there. Instead, they were constructed in measured ranks of blocks, with wide streets in between, and buildings at a height circumscribed by law, and open spaces reserved, and colonnades which protected the front of the flats. Nero built these colonnades with his own money, and promised that he would hand over the areas to their owners free of debris. He added a bounty in proportion to each household's rank and means, and delimited the time within which the houses or flats must be built if it were to be received.

[castor212]

thanks a lot

my own savefile for extra is for some reason corrupted, so cant even check myself ingame for her matrix

one more thing, if i may ask: was Caligula being a very benevolent uncle for Nero during several first month of his rule and still being sane in TMlore has any basis in IRL history as a foundation? Or do they just sorta wing it?

[Seika]

That Caligula is said by the 'contemporary' historians to have started well and then devolved into barbarity is a very typical literary model for the allegedly bad emperors (see also the Neronic quinquennium) and therefore dubious. Facts got twisted to fit these patterns, so it's always best to treat them with a healthy amount of scepticism.

We're told he was ill shortly after he acceded to the principate, which may have induced outright mental instability or simply paranoia (suspecting, rightly or wrongly, a poisoning), potentially contributing to bizarre and cruel acts. That said, there is also a prominent school of thought which says he was never insane - that many of these reports are simply gossip and slander, and that others are misinterpreted. Famously, Suetonius reports that he might have said he wanted to make his horse a consul, and then the later Cassius Dio unblinkingly says that he swore an oath to do so. If he ever made such a comment, it's often taken either as a simple joke, or as a calculated insult toward the senators: you're so useless, my horse could do your job. (Some mix the two and basically say Caligula found it amusing/necessary to permanently troll the Senate).

While I'm willing to commit to a side with Nero and go with the faction that says he was grossly mischaracterised by the historical sources, I stick with those (whom I think in this case are the majority) who reserve judgement on Caligula, and say that our evidence is too poor and too biased for any accurate assessment to be made.

Nero was barely born when Caligula became emperor, and was four at his death. I know of no record of them interacting, and suspect it to be unlikely given: 1) the Roman lack of sentimentality toward young children still likely to become childhood mortality statistics; and 2) Caligula banished Agrippina about a year into his reign on assassination charges. He showed affection toward Claudius, his uncle, by most accounts, though.

[neveron]

thanks a lot

my own savefile for extra is for some reason corrupted, so cant even check myself ingame for her matrix

one more thing, if i may ask: was Caligula being a very benevolent uncle for Nero during several first month of his rule and still being sane in TMlore has any basis in IRL history as a foundation? Or do they just sorta wing it?

This is all from Wikipedia, but:

Nero's birthday was the 13th December 37 - Caligula entered Rome as an Emperor on March 28 that year. He was apparently pretty generous near the beginning, and seems to have liked his sisters a bunch (he put them on money, included them in official statements, etc.) This is probably were the kind uncle idea comes from, I think?

But then he fell ill (or was poisoned, perhaps) in October of that year and seemed to become a bit paranoid. He executed a bunch of his extended family members, for instance. This is the start of Caligula's madness, as it were. Nero isn't born for two more months.

After his younger sister Julia Drusilla died on the 10th of June 38 - she was Caligula's favorite and his heir after the illness (and maybe lover, if rumors are to be trusted), Wikipedia says that he stopped caring much about his other sisters. So make of that what you will. Nero would have been six months old. The period before here would have been prime Kind Uncle time, I think, if we're assuming that kind of relationship.

His eldest sister, Aggripina the Younger (Nero's mother) plotted with her sister and younger sister's widow to have him assassinated in 39 - after this failed, Caligula had her exiled. Nero would have been one year old, maybe two. I doubt he got much interaction with his uncle beyond this point, and this is in the midst of Caligula's crazy period.

And then two years later on the 24th January 41 Caligula was murdered and Claudius came into power - at that point Nero would have been three years old.


Of note, though, is that it's debatable whether or not Caligula actually was insane - most of the contemporary records are pretty biased and it's not like medical science was all that advanced. It could have just been regular old ruthlessness and semi-justified fear from a suspected assassination.
He might have had epilepsy, though?

[castor212]

That Caligula is said by the 'contemporary' historians to have started well and then devolved into barbarity is a very typical literary model for the bad emperors (see also the Neronic quinquennium) and therefore dubious. Facts got twisted to fit these patterns, so it's always best to treat them with a healthy amount of scepticism.

mm I understand, i only describe it that way because thats how it went in TMlore (right?)

ok so this one is a wee bit of TM machinations then

thanks for the answer and interesting infodump

[castor212]

Q, on kngprotea entry she was said to be the same as konjiki hakumen in that several servant will be needed to overcome her

Is this talking konjiki hakumen, the kamigami super powerful not caring about timeaxis version?

[Lily Emilio]

I mean, is there any other person go by that name?

[castor212]

Just making sure cuz there is this guy i know that said it could be reduced-to-shinrei-no-longer-kami konjiki hakumen

[Lily Emilio]

Why would that be the case? The statement is like "Kingprotea is OP yo, and bigggggg, think BBA fox. So you need to have multiple servants fighting her.". Fox's status is not a matter here. Like, remember Tiamat? We did have multiple servants fighting her as well.

[asterism42]

The real question is if the cut Alter Egos will show up in GO or not.

[castor212]

Why would that be the case? The statement is like "Kingprotea is OP yo, and bigggggg, think BBA fox. So you need to have multiple servants fighting her.". Fox's status is not a matter here. Like, remember Tiamat? We did have multiple servants fighting her as well.

dunno why he'd think that ver of konjiki is shinrei instead of kami

anw im asking to make sure i got the right idea, thx for the answer

[Iceblade44]

The real question is if the cut Alter Egos will show up in GO or not.

SpoilersThey were on that old datamine list weren't they. Well considering they have just launched the Extra Event we probably won't see them until second Extra event. So probably in a year or two most likely I guess.

[Clyton]

SpoilersThey were on that old datamine list weren't they. Well considering they have just launched the Extra Event we probably won't see them until second Extra event. So probably in a year or two most likely I guess.

I would probably expect them to come in an event celebrating Last Encore's premiere.

[Kyte]

Dunno, this event smells to me like it'll have a second part and second gacha.