Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[fumei]

Saber vs Archer in the sea of flames, Saber witnessing Kiritsugu shoot Kotomine, Kotomine claiming that Kiritsugu defeated most of the Masters in the HGW, Saber claiming Kiritsugu only spoke to her three times, Illya saying he left her and her mother behind. Half are figurative and half a result of moving the final fight to the batcave.

Thank you

And thanks Icebland and 8000 as well

[SpoonyViking]

Also, Kirei lies.

[Leftovers]

There was also some inconsistency as to whether the Fuyuki fire was caused by Kirei wishing for Saber and Kiritsugu to be separated or by Kerry trying and failing to use it, although in that case it's also Fate route being inconsistent with the rest of the VN (not the only time either). Unless I'm remembering wrong and Kirei was speaking figuratively.

Right, in regards to Kirei's claim.

"I do not even need to tell you.
Ten years ago--the Holy Grail was incomplete but full, and it was possible to obtain it.
I merely touched it. You and Kiritsugu were powerful, so I wished for a diversion to separate you two. But I was surprised by the diversion that occurred."

Hold on.
Could that be...?

"--Then you caused that fire with the power of the Holy Grail...!?"

"Who knows? I think the Holy Grail would have done the same thing even if I was someone else. It is a thing of that nature. People call it an omnipotent vessel, but only blood, darkness, and curses fill it.
You saw it as well, right? The darkness that spilled out from it when you destroyed the Holy Grail. It only spilled onto Archer. Archer would not have lost his way if you had not destroyed the Holy Grail."

He specifies in HF that Kiritsugu saw the activating Grail, rejected it, and destroyed it.

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I think it's also mentioned that the mud couldn't corrupt Gilgamesh so it turned to Kotomine instead.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

He was speaking of it from his own perspective rather than what happened.


"…Nonsense. The Holy Grail is a magical vessel that grants the wishes of its possessor. That fire must have been your wish…!"


"Only the result. The process was not what I had in mind. I only wished for people to be gone from that place."



Which isn't actually wrong per se, just not really true, although that matches up with how Kotomine combines truth and lies. He thinks the Fuyuki fire was the Grail reacting to his own desires, which is what he and Gil discuss when he wakes up after it.

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and sniped

[Death7Knight]

Spoiler:

Saber glares at the enemy, drawing magical energy into her arm.
…Many handles are floating around the man.
That's what slaughtered Caster,
…And those are the Noble Phantasms of the golden knight who cornered Saber.






It's a scene that makes even me want to doubt my own eyes.

Those handles floating behind him are surely those of Noble Phantasms.
Not just ten or twenty.
No, even though I can't see them, I can feel that they are infinite.
From all times and places.
As if to say, that Servant has all the divine mysteries from every legend

"Archer. Who are you?"
Saber's voice is trembling.
A Servant will not answer when asked their true identity.
But the enemy's Noble Phantasm is so strange that Saber has to ask.

"Answer me, Archer…! A heroic spirit can only have one Noble Phantasm. No, some have more, but two should be the limit.
A heroic spirit with infinite Noble Phantasms cannot exist…!"

[Leftovers]

That's Saber still not knowing his identity because he uses so many NPs.

"Well, we don't know who he is or what his motive is, but I'm sure he's an enemy we'll need to defeat.
So Saber, what's his true identity?"

"...I do not know. Even at the end, I could not tell who he was.
That hero did not have a Noble Phantasm symbolic of him."

"He doesn't have a symbolic Noble Phantasm...? That can't be true. A Servant without a Noble Phantasm can't be a Servant.
"And besides, he--"

"Yeah, he was using so many. It should be easy to work out his true identity with so many Noble Phantasms. You just need to identify the appropriate hero for them."

[...]

"But what does that mean!?
No hero has that many Noble Phantasms. No, more importantly, the sources are all different. I don't understand it--"

"Yes. That is why I could not tell his true identity.
He has an abundance of Noble Phantasms, the proofs of a hero. I could not narrow down his true identity because he had so many."

[Reign]

Spoiler:

Saber glares at the enemy, drawing magical energy into her arm.
…Many handles are floating around the man.
That's what slaughtered Caster,
…And those are the Noble Phantasms of the golden knight who cornered Saber.






It's a scene that makes even me want to doubt my own eyes.

Those handles floating behind him are surely those of Noble Phantasms.
Not just ten or twenty.
No, even though I can't see them, I can feel that they are infinite.
From all times and places.
As if to say, that Servant has all the divine mysteries from every legend

"Archer. Who are you?"
Saber's voice is trembling.
A Servant will not answer when asked their true identity.
But the enemy's Noble Phantasm is so strange that Saber has to ask.

"Answer me, Archer…! A heroic spirit can only have one Noble Phantasm. No, some have more, but two should be the limit.
A heroic spirit with infinite Noble Phantasms cannot exist…!"

This always bothered me because that's just how Gil fights, so Saber never seeing GoB throughout the entire 4th war is honestly kind of unbelievable.

[mAc Chaos]

I just assumed she saw it before but was taking the chance now to call him out over it.

[Rafflesiac]

"Answer me, Archer…! A heroic spirit can only have one Noble Phantasm. No, some have more, but two should be the limit.
A heroic spirit with infinite Noble Phantasms cannot exist…!"

Artoria Pendragon:
- Excalibur: A++
- Invisible Air: C
- Avalon: EX

Lancelot:
- Arondight: A++
- Knight of Honor: A++
- For Someone's Glory: B

Medusa:
- Bellerophon: A+
- Bloodfort Andromeda: B
- Breaker Gorgon: C-

Saber is an idiot.

[Sesto]

Saber claiming Kiritsugu only spoke to her three times

I am pretty sure this is actually true. I had this in mind one time when I rewatched Zero, and Kiritsugu specifically talks through Iri rather than directly to Saber most of the time. Even when they're having the argument after Kayneth's death he's still talking to Iri.

[Death7Knight]

That's Saber still not knowing his identity because he uses so many NPs.

You are right. After rereading that part, it sounds more like she is surprised that he can constantly pull out different weapons with special abilities.

[Leftovers]

I am pretty sure this is actually true. I had this in mind one time when I rewatched Zero, and Kiritsugu specifically talks through Iri rather than directly to Saber most of the time. Even when they're having the argument after Kayneth's death he's still talking to Iri.

Rechecked the novels. He does speak, well, at her right before leaving after Kayneth's death, but considering the last two command spells were bunched together that'd still count as three times. Score one for Gen.

[Reign]

Kerry also is still the one who killed the most Masters. Killing 2 (Ryuunosuke, Kayneth) is still most when the only other Master with a kill count was Kirei with Tokiomi.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

The language is more that he was responsible for eliminating most if not all. Not the most out of them, the most of them.

[Rafflesiac]

Arguably Kariya killed himself, as a Servant is a Master's weapon

[castor212]

what if using saber as a weapon he technically had made kariya use even more maryoku and effectively killed him ok nevermind this is getting stretched out

[castor212]

how common is making-space-larger-than-it-actually-is magic?

[You]

how common is making-space-larger-than-it-actually-is magic?

depends on the space
it's definitely not common and pretty up there

[castor212]

chaldea sugoi

[You]

Another Paracelsus question after my Philosopher's Stone question the other day. How does his NP's non-beamu effect work? If I understand right, it can absorb and neutralize curses?

It's Da Vinci's NP lite.
Where Da Vinci can analyze a NP and create a countermeasure with her brain,
Para needs to use a supercomputer to help him with that.
When the blade comes into contact with the magical energy from the opposing NP, the spiritron computer analyzes the magical energy, hacks it, and then neutralizes it or throws it back at the original user.

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chaldea sugoi

I mean considering all the stuff they had, being able to distort space in a APC is peanuts.