Saber was already barely restrained by one Command Seal+the threat of Shirou and Taiga being used as hostages.
Medea removing the hostages just means that Saber can and will go all-out to break the compulsion or kill herself in the attempt (since survival as Medea's Servant is not a preferred option).
Just leaving him there was dumb though, I'll admit. She could easily have puppeteered his body to come with them and used him as permanent leverage to get Saber's cooperation.
Last edited by Deathhappens; May 14th, 2018 at 05:36 PM.
Archer might even go so far as to actually use Archery and just blow them up with Caladbolg II from 4km away.Originally Posted by Megas
See, I was thinking something like this but was unsure if it would work on the church.
Come visit Mobius Space whereand post Type-Moon stuffquite rarelytranslators gather
I had considered turning Shirou into a projection weapon, but that would also piss Saber off, probably even more than killing the boy. I don't think Gil even needs to be considered here, since this is a UBW-branch (and he does not seem to care about Saber at all outside her route).
If I remember correctly, when she goes there, she is like "Caster, I have come to bargain" (pun intended!) and Caster is maybe too willing to hear what she has to say.
Kuzuki orders her to break Saber with a CS only when Shirou barges in, turning the scales even (as in 3 x 3) and resulting in a Bad Ending.
So it depends on how well Archer can manage to face a full mana Saber promptly ready to excaliblast his face, Kuzuki and Caster at the same time. Nah.
Since there won't be an Emiya-kun giving Tohsaka a conscience to worry with, maybe she could even strike a deal with Caster to kill Berserker first (although I find it hard if Shirou has been turned into a weapon or killed. In this scenario, he works best as a hostage, which would also prompt Archer's betrayal to some extent).
If memory serves, Lancer goes there under Kotomine's orders, so maybe he could team up with Rin. But that would happen after the whole business with Archer's betrayal was finished. Hell, Lancer only shows up after Illya is already dead.
Tohsaka would hardly have Lancer as a partner at this point.
If Shirou dies and Medea has taken up residence in the church, I feel like Kotomine's going to have Lancer join up with Rin.
Kotomine's probably more interested in betraying Rin in the end than just killing Caster with Gil.
I don't remember Rin ever trying to bargain with Medea though.
Shirou's not really giving Tohsaka her conscience either, Rin's just not honest with herself that she has it. She's not going to team up with Caster who's been draining innocents to the bone to kill Berserker who hasn't really been killing anyone unrelated to the war.
Last edited by Megas; May 14th, 2018 at 05:59 PM.
Come visit Mobius Space whereand post Type-Moon stuffquite rarelytranslators gather
I only used bargain to access the rule of pun/cool.
Kotomine takes his time to order Lancer, since he appears to parlay with Shirou and Rin only after Gil goes off-screen (while teasing the two of them like mad) or maybe Lancer was already there just waiting for them to finish burying Illya's body.
But why Lancer did not appear to Rin right before she goes to the church alone bugs me. Maybe Kirei was too injured to give the order right away.
It is never explained how much freedom Lancer had to go roaming freely without having an order from Kotomine. Lancer's circunstances are very different from Gilgamesh, after all.
Last edited by AstralSword; May 14th, 2018 at 06:04 PM.
From the NP rank standpoint not really, but my impression is that it might be able to considering how ridiculously tough it is in the chapter. Excalibur has rarely been used against divine beasts in the first place so it's really hard to gauge and usually it comes to headcanon.
If TYPE-RUSSIA loses to some shitty tea-stained twig TM is shit
Pegasus looks a lot weaker than this, and even though it was aided by a projected Rho Aius, it managed to off-shot a full power excaliblast from Saber Alter.
As plot-shielded as that one fight may be, I think the beast you just showed can handle it.
Well when Gordoff mentioned Artoria, Iskandar, and Gil Holmes said they were unlikely to be summoned that conveniently because they were HS who could solve the Lostbelt on their own so who knows. If anything if that Tree really was a part of the Alien God then I'd see Excalibur capable of destroying that in the least.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Reminder that even in the Fate route, where Saber legitimately develops feelings for Shirou, she outright tells Medea that if she harms Shirou, Saber will just throw caution to the wind and attack right then and there.
She does develop feelings for Shirou in UBW, it's just that we don't get to see them manifest because she's lowkey trying to wingman Rin and because she's absent for half the route.
Sunny Days>Brilliant Years
Is that really true?
Spoiler:
I mean, you can interpret the UBW good end like that yes. Where you spent to much time splitting you points between Rin and Saber
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Nope. Holmes did not say those can solve the lostbelt on their own, he only said that the summoning of a servant strong enough to save the world on their own is difficult. He did not specify those 3 as "servants strong enough to save the world" let alone "can solve the lostbelt". You're making assumptions there.
And we're talking about the mammoth, not the tree. Surely if all you have to do is blast the tree to break the lostbelt then yeah just nuke that, but this mammoth ain't the tree.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; May 14th, 2018 at 07:11 PM.
This is the core in my theory gamble that killing Shirou would make Saber either get depressed not only for not fulfilling her oath to protect her master but also the one she loved (hence she breaking down for a few moments, which would be enough time for Caster to exert her control better/forever) or she would go nuts right away.
Which is why I think killing/turning Shirou into a projection wand has the drawback of having Saber getting crazy. Him as a healthy hostage will do the trick here, but it will attract Archer and that could be trouble (the random sword-rain kind).
After thinking this throughout, using 2 command spells right away to control Saber without question is the best choice, really. After that, it won't matter if Shirou is alive. And if he is dead Archer won't come after Caster to get him.
Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention this was @forumghost's idea. The 2 CS at once thingey
Last edited by AstralSword; May 14th, 2018 at 07:49 PM.
I didn't say Holmes were to one said those three. Gordoff did. What Holmes did was dismissed them as a possibility because of Servants of that strength would be as you said difficult. What is to note that is that Holmes was responding to Gordoff's question whether they could find a Servant that could deal with Ivan, which Gordoff then used those three as examples. Holmes comment about Servant's capable of single-handling saving the world was part of his response to Gordoff of him saying it's unlikely we would find a Servant as strong as them, so I don't think it's assuming. Just implication, that's different. Even if its not explicitly said what was implied by the conversation still is there, or now can we only take stuff by the letter then? Because from the context of the conversation saving the world and solving the Lostbelt was the same thing, especially since Holmes didn't even know the term Lostbelt yet they were definitely speaking about the situation they were in now, the Lostbelt.
And I know you were talking about the mammoth, my comment on the tree was just a throw away. You guys were saying whether or not Excalibur can take it and all I was doing was saying that the possibility is there. But is it conclusive? Nope. Whether it is enough or not we don't know. I was agreeing with you that anything other than that is headcanon, I'm just supporting the vagueness.
"Only in my company, will you not be a monster"
anywhere than here
Can Iskandar's army kill it?
Spoiler:
Wandering on internet
That passage between Gordorf and Holmes is just a throwback to Apocrypha, where you can't summon those 3 because their relics are lost forever. Obviously Gordorf would mention it because he's Gordes's son
You read my reply wrong. I said that Holmes didn't say the 3 (that Gordoff mentioned) can solve the lostbelt.
No, destroying the Russia lostbelt doesn't save the world. You have 7 of them to wipe and obviously the other ones are beyond Russia lostbelt level. Even after you're done purging all of them you still have to restore the old world, which is something none of those 3 servants can do. From what I just reread from the log, Holmes was just speculating as usual, he was not being specific. Therefore I completely disagree with your assumptions.Even if its not explicitly said what was implied by the conversation still is there, or now can we only take stuff by the letter then? Because from the context of the conversation saving the world and solving the Lostbelt was the same thing, especially since Holmes didn't even know the term Lostbelt yet they were definitely speaking about the situation they were in now, the Lostbelt
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