Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Iceblade44]

Gil's ego overcame the curse. Likewise why Command Spells don't work on Gil.

CS don't work on Gil? Pretty sure Tokiomi was able to do so in Zero, and from the Gilles battle it seemed that Tokiomi thought that a CS would be able to make Gil use Ea. Is their another source showing it not working?

[Lily Emilio]

and do those spells live up to their namesake accurately?

Yes.

if they do, then why wouldnt Medea's?

Because those are different things. Tamamo's curses were specifically said to be creation of physical phenomena as oppose to other magecraft, it's basically magical science (cuz onmyoudou IRL is a mix of natural science and occult stuffs), which plays a big factor on why it completely bypass Magic Resistance unlike the other spells.

Medea's spells are still magecraft, glowy magic beams with a fancy name like idk a bunch of NPs and attacking moves in shounen. The speed of the attack in the VN already indicate that it is definitely not light speed. If I use a spell to throw a magic ball and I name it Tachyon Ball, that does not mean that magic ball is FTL.

[Laserman]

CS don't work on Gil? Pretty sure Tokiomi was able to do so in Zero, and from the Gilles battle it seemed that Tokiomi thought that a CS would be able to make Gil use Ea.

Yeah, I remember that too.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

CS don't work on Gil? Pretty sure Tokiomi was able to do so in Zero, and from the Gilles battle it seemed that Tokiomi thought that a CS would be able to make Gil use Ea. Is their another source showing it not working?

Zero's the actual source. You'll notice that unlike other straight orders, Gil doesn't just suddenly go spirit form or halt or whatever. Because fuck Tokiomi. But as Gil says later to Kotomine, he followed it because he'll respect the system.

CCC then goes on to point out yes, he really could just say fuck you.

[Deathhappens]

Zero's the actual source. You'll notice that unlike other straight orders, Gil doesn't just suddenly go spirit form or halt or whatever. Because fuck Tokiomi. But as Gil says later to Kotomine, he followed it because he'll respect the system.

CCC then goes on to point out yes, he really could just say fuck you.

I mean, it's not even exactly news. Saber partially resists CS's multiple times. More recently, Astolfo took 2 before he started half-assing what he was being ordered to do (and narration notes that it's thanks to Casseur de Logistille, iirc). Unlike Angry Manjew, CS's are explicitly affected by magic resistance.

[You]

At the risk of sounding like I'm wanking my waifu, could Jeanne resist being blackened by grail mud with MR EX? I'm thinking of how it let her resist Maria the Ripper, though I'm aware AM is definitely a more powerful curse than that.

Well Jeanne wouldn't alter because she has no alter.
But p sure she'd be eaten up.
The effect of the mud depends a lot if you're a proper hero as well. Which jeanne is.

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i thought about them just being magical bullets as well at first but a few things made me think otherwise.

out of all the magic spell names that i was able to look up in my time as a TM fan, this particular spell is the only one that mentions an element in its name.

also, most beam attacks used in the novels get explained as to what they are. Gandr is a curse disease, Aoko's bullets are kinetic energy...this spell is the only one of its kind without additional explanation besides what we get at face value.

also, Roa uses lightning and that isnt terribly difficult for the cast members in tsukihime to deal with (if i may bring up the manga, shiki did it while near death). i dont see anything that isnt faster than electricity giving a servant any pause.

“—Mars: Iron Arm of War, shoot.”

With sounds similar to gunfire, [bullets of light] shot out from those openings. Those shots, which had force behind them equal to bullets, pulverized the stone pavement at Shishigou’s feet.

“Ah, damn it. So those arms can do anything, huh…!”

While pigeonholing himself, Shishigou used the car as a shield and withstood the machine gun-like strafing fire of cursed bullets. He threw out his shotgun’s empty cartridge and reloaded with a bullet from his waist pocket.

i don't think fiore's magical bullets were moving at light speed in this scene.
they're just magical bullets

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I mean, it's not even exactly news. Saber partially resists CS's multiple times. More recently, Astolfo took 2 before he started half-assing what he was being ordered to do (and narration notes that it's thanks to Casseur de Logistille, iirc). Unlike Angry Manjew, CS's are explicitly affected by magic resistance.

Gil's doesn't have anything to do with MR tho, especially since Gil's MR is average at best. It's literally because he's Gil.

Saber also can't resist after multiple command spells and struggles on the first one. Gil's first one is Iguess.jpg

[forumghost]

Basically there are three things that can allow a Servant to resist CS

1) High enough levels of MR
2) High enough levels of IA
3) Being Gilgamesh

[You]

And Spartacus can shake off a CS because he's Spartacus
And Herc can shake off CSs because he's Herc
And Karna can shake off a CS if it's from a meh person like Jinako

[asterism42]

Using a Command Seal on Karna is pointless because he basically does whatever he's told anyway.

[fire_mountain_30]

Well Jeanne wouldn't alter because she has no alter.
But p sure she'd be eaten up.
The effect of the mud depends a lot if you're a proper hero as well. Which jeanne is.

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i don't think fiore's magical bullets were moving at light speed in this scene.
they're just magical bullets

but bullet form isnt an accurate representation of light in nature or in science. too compact a form and requires an external propelling force.

beamu is the way to go

ah crap, i just caught the takeuchi disease, didnt I?

[You]

Using a Command Seal on Karna is pointless because he basically does whatever he's told anyway.

what if you command him to sever his contract with you to help another person
then you're going to need the command spells

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but bullet form isnt an accurate representation of light in nature or in science. too compact a form and requires an external propelling force.

well you see magecraft isn't grounded in science so

[Reign]

Well Jeanne wouldn't alter because she has no alter.
But p sure she'd be eaten up.
The effect of the mud depends a lot if you're a proper hero as well. Which jeanne is.

Oh yeah she'd probably get eaten, I was just talking about altering. I was going to bring up the thing where Jalter is a separate existence too but the wording in Jalter's profile of "the possibility is almost nil" made me pause and think there was still some possibility.

Unless that was just a wrong/awkward translation.

Thanks for the input

[LJ3]

Spartacus being in the Herk/Gil/Karna camp of resisting CS is the dumbest shit

and don’t give me that oppressor meme

[Rafflesiac]

Oh yeah she'd probably get eaten, I was just talking about altering. I was going to bring up the thing where Jalter is a separate existence too but the wording in Jalter's profile of "the possibility is almost nil" made me pause and think there was still some possibility.

Unless that was just a wrong/awkward translation.

Thanks for the input

Obviously she resists as long as the tentacles and Angra clones don't break her body

Spartacus being in the Herk/Gil/Karna camp of resisting CS is the dumbest shit

and don’t give me that oppressor meme

EX ME though

[LJ3]

Ex ME was a mistake

[You]

EX was a mistake

[pinetree]

Spartacus being in the Herk/Gil/Karna camp of resisting CS is the dumbest shit

and don’t give me that oppressor meme

Resisting slavery is his entire character my dude.

[I3uster]

EX was a mistake

youll find someone more fitting if you keep looking you dont worry

[Iceblade44]

And Spartacus can shake off a CS because he's Spartacus
And Herc can shake off CSs because he's Herc
And Karna can shake off a CS if it's from a meh person like Jinako

Also Siegfried as well according to the mats, if it goes against his values.

Also Herk while can resist CS he can't shrug them off, going from how he ended up in SF. The same probably applies to Gil. It just seems to much to fully go against the compulsion of a CS, even if they are as strong as Gil. He can resist it glorious but if a mage were to use all three on him I doubt even he could take it.