Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[warellis]

What do we know about the Zolgen prior to Makiri being born? Everything about the Zolgen/Matou seems to always be filtered through Makiri's lens so is there anything mentioned about what the Zolgen were like before Makiri was born?

[Deathhappens]

You know, I just realised I still don't have a clear idea of how FGO part 1's story played out.

Timeline goes:

Goetia is born -> Solomon dies -> Goetia resolves to destroy Earth's time continuum and somehow use the resulting energy to remake the Earth in his image (?).

Goetia implants random humans with his "DNA", causing descendants of those lines born in predetermined eras to be taken over by his pillars. Said pillars then somehow acquire (create? or does he send them over from the Timeless Temple? Where do they come from anyway?) a holy Grail and use it to destabilise history (but if the pillars are there aren't they already a part of proper history?). He also sends a pillar with a grail about 1000 years back in time from where he started in Babylonia. And all this timeline hacking comes to a head in 2019 (2017 in JP, doesn't matter) despite the latest grail planted being in 2004 in Fuyuki. Then the last pillar is born/takes over in Clock Tower 2015/2017, only to help create the technology that will be used to dismantle this whole plan, and then after wrecking Chaldea despite helping build it and antagonizing the protagonist a bunch, time travels back to round 300ish AD in Septem. Do I have all this right?

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Oh and somehow Ars Almadel Solomonis (the white halo thing) is involved even though it doesn't actually do anything. Maybe it was there to gather energy?

[Menwearpink]

The words Matou and Generations dont mix well for me... Mainly cuz Zouken keeps on re-inserting himself in the family tree... For all we know the known Matou water element users are all Zouken

Heck i dont even remember is its confirmed that Sakura was given the water element,i know Sakura got mp drain spells, but i think Rin made the statement before she had time to actually check,cuz what Tohsaka's think Zouken did to Sakura, is NOT what Zouken actually did to her...
Then again , if Zouken wanted to ever cast a spell while in Sakura's body, he'd probably need her to have the water element.

Well we know that absorption is a water thing from various Matou things, and also because of Melt so.

Sakura does absorption = Sakura has water?

[Deathhappens]

Well we know that absorption is a water thing from various Matou things, and also because of Melt so.Sakura does absorption = Sakura has water?

You wouldn't think so with how thisty she is!



*rinshot*

[SpoonyViking]

Hah! RINshot. Nice!

[Lily Emilio]

Timeline goes:

Goetia is born -> Solomon dies -> Goetia resolves to destroy Earth's time continuum and somehow use the resulting energy to remake the Earth in his image (?).

Goetia is the magecraft to observe mankind. Before Solomon died, he sent one of his rings to the future according to God's order. After he died the magecraft system that is Goetia sealed within his body took control of his corpse. Goetia intended to use the energy from burning history to fuel his time travel plan. The plan is to return to the moment the planet is formed, become Type-Earth, make the new planet having no death concept for all.

Said pillars then somehow acquire (create? or does he send them over from the Timeless Temple? Where do they come from anyway?) a holy Grail and use it to destabilise history (but if the pillars are there aren't they already a part of proper history?).

Those with the demon genes can transform into the demon. Like Zouken or Lev. Mozart escaped his fate thanks to music. The demon pillars don't need to be in the singularity to do their stuffs. All they had to do is use the Art Graph designed by Goetia to cause some huge mess. Give it to a guy so he can create his doujinshi waifu, use it to make a super bomb which can sink a country into the ocean, release a Beast from the imaginary number space...etc.

And all this timeline hacking comes to a head in 2019 (2017 in JP, doesn't matter) despite the latest grail planted being in 2004 in Fuyuki.

Fuyuki is not one of the 7 singularities, I think Lev was the one fucking with Fuyuki but I'm not too sure. it's still the one with most mystery going on atm due to a lot of interludes having you go back there to fix that sea of fire, but we have no clue what with that. Goetia planted 7 grails in Orleans, Septem, Okeanos, London, America, Camelot, Babylonia.

Then the last pillar is born/takes over in Clock Tower 2015/2017, only to help create the technology that will be used to dismantle this whole plan, and then after wrecking Chaldea despite helping build it and antagonizing the protagonist a bunch, time travels back to round 300ish AD in Septem. Do I have all this right?

Lev and the other demons can freely move back and forth between the Time Temple and the singularities.

Maybe it was there to gather energy?

Yes.

[castor212]

The words Matou and Generations dont mix well for me... Mainly cuz Zouken keeps on re-inserting himself in the family tree... For all we know the known Matou water element users are all Zouken

Heck i dont even remember is its confirmed that Sakura was given the water element,i know Sakura got mp drain spells, but i think Rin made the statement before she had time to actually check,cuz what Tohsaka's think Zouken did to Sakura, is NOT what Zouken actually did to her...
Then again , if Zouken wanted to ever cast a spell while in Sakura's body, he'd probably need her to have the water element.

cm3 said water is sakura's element now, after change

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More belief means more places your magecraft can be used but deteriorated mystery
Less belief means better mystery but it might not always work and you can only use it where the foundation was established

i forgot, how does it work again when your magic is your personal magic wo anyparticular school

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Fuyuki is fucking weird

its just fucking weird

[Deathhappens]

Goetia is the magecraft to observe mankind. Before Solomon died, he sent one of his rings to the future according to God's order. After he died the magecraft system that is Goetia sealed within his body took control of his corpse. Goetia intended to use the energy from burning history to fuel his time travel plan. The plan is to return to the moment the planet is formed, become Type-Earth, make the new planet having no death concept for all.


Those with the demon genes can transform into the demon. Like Zouken or Lev. Mozart escaped his fate thanks to music. The demon pillars don't need to be in the singularity to do their stuffs. All they had to do is use the Art Graph designed by Goetia to cause some huge mess. Give it to a guy so he can create his doujinshi waifu, use it to make a super bomb which can sink a country into the ocean, release a Beast from the imaginary number space...etc.


Fuyuki is not one of the 7 singularities, I think Lev was the one fucking with Fuyuki but I'm not too sure. it's still the one with most mystery going on atm due to a lot of interludes having you go back there to fix that sea of fire, but we have no clue what with that. Goetia planted 7 grails in Orleans, Septem, Okeanos, London, America, Camelot, Babylonia.


Lev and the other demons can freely move back and forth between the Time Temple and the singularities.


Yes.

I'm confused, are you repeating what I said or correcting it? If so, which part?

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Other than Fuyuki at least.

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What the heck is an Art Graph

[Lily Emilio]

I am correcting most of what you said.

[Deathhappens]

Okay, like what? Can you be more specific?

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Because most of what you said sounds the same as what I said with more details filled in.

[Lily Emilio]

Goetia did not plan to use the energy he gathered to reform the planet. The plan ends when he got back to 4,6 billion years ago. What he would do to actually make his dream come true is unknown.

You were asking about where the pillars came from, and I told you people having the DNA can just demon-moprh. You did not know how the pillar used the Art Graphs to fuck up history and thought if they are there they are part of the proper thing, which I replied that no they don't even need to be there, just throw one of those things out there for literally anyone to use, that someone can have nothing to do with them at all.

You said Lev time travel, but it's just an application Ind. Manifestation. Ind Manifestation is you pick the destination, you manifest there, cuz your existence is already beyond the time axis in the first place (and guess what, demon pillars are in the time temple which is outside the time axis), simple as that. That's why Koyanskaya couldn't get into the Wandering Sea normally due to its coordinates were constantly changing, she needed a catalyst, a bond with someone there aka Goredolf.

[Deathhappens]

Goetia did not plan to use the energy he gathered to reform the planet. The plan ends when he got back to 4,6 billion years ago. What he would do to actually make his dream come true is unknown.

He was remaking humanity in some way, which presumably includes the planet. Doesn't change anything.

You were asking about where the pillars came from, and I told you people having the DNA can just demon-moprh. You did not know how the pillar used the Art Graphs to fuck up history and thought if they are there they are part of the proper thing, which I replied that no they don't even need to be there, just throw one of those things out there for literally anyone to use, that someone can have nothing to do with them at all.

I wasn't asking where Pillars come from, I already said he "injected his DNA" into humans in some way. I was asking where Grails come from. You also misunderstood my point about them being there- if the Pillars manifested in that era the first time around, then whatever mess they caused IS the proper history. They didn't go back and change something, they were already there.

You said Lev time travel, but it's just an application Ind. Manifestation. Ind Manifestation is you pick the destination, you manifest there, cuz your existence is already beyond the time axis in the first place (and guess what, demon pillars are in the time temple which is outside the time axis), simple as that. That's why Koyanskaya couldn't get into the Wandering Sea normally due to its coordinates were constantly changing, she needed a catalyst, a bond with someone there aka Goredolf.

Semantics.

I appreciate the effort, though.

[Mcjon01]

Vaguely remember the grails all got made in Jerusalem whatever B.C. and just got dropped where the right people would find them at the right time

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Except for the special one that was sent back to Babylonia

[Deathhappens]

Made by whom, how, and how did they get from Jerusalem to whatever eras they were supposed to end up in, though?

Don't forget there were a lot more Grails than just the 8 we collect in the 'proper' singularities- Lizzie somehow managed to swipe two, for example.

[pinetree]

Goetia can see the future, so he just arranged it so the grails would end up where he needed them to.

Each event has its own explanation for the Grail we get. Liz's for example is just a piece of the Art Graph from Orleans.

Edit: Art Graph is the correct term for Solomon's Grails. They're crystals that can manipulate magical energy.

[Mcjon01]

Made by whom, how, and how did they get from Jerusalem to whatever eras they were supposed to end up in, though?

Don't forget there were a lot more Grails than just the 8 we collect in the 'proper' singularities- Lizzie somehow managed to swipe two, for example.

They got to the eras through the normal passage of time, as things do
None of the event grails were actually Goetia grails either

[castor212]

long as we still havent hit 726, we're good on grails!

[weeblord]

if the Pillars manifested in that era the first time around, then whatever mess they caused IS the proper history. They didn't go back and change something, they were already there.

I was under the impression the pillars in the past only activated retroactively through time shenanigans in reaction to the final one in Lev awakening, and laid dormant through the course of proper history.

[CrazyLich79]

Because Avalon permanently changed Shirou's Elemental Affinity and Origin, does that mean he can pass his Sword/Sword combo on, or is it a him-exclusive thing?

As I remember it, Shirou's original Origin was something else. His attempt to survive the fire lead him to abondning his sense of self and everything that made him, him. This also lead to his Origin being lost or damaged, it's not confirmed which. What is confirmed is that in one of the source materials Nasu said that Shirou's Origin was changed by Avalon in it's attempt to heal him. For the Archer in Extra, it's said that it is hinted that it's possible his Origin is different from that when he was born. If someone normal had Avalon transplanted into them, I don't think it would change their Element or Origin(Kiritsugu is a possible example, not an accurate one though as he didn't have Avalon for as long as Shirou did nor were his injuries as deep as Shirou's). Take what I say with a grain of salt and wait for Mizukume to prove me wrong.
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That's my fate on this site.

[Mcjon01]

Yeah, the plan was let humanity grow for x number of years so that there would be more energy to harvest from breaking the quantum time locks
201x was just the earliest date he could enact the plan and get enough energy to go back to the planet’s birth

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As I remember it, Shirou's original Origin was something else. His attempt to survive the fire lead him to abondning his sense of self and everything that made him, him. This also lead to his Origin being lost or damaged, it's not confirmed which. What is confirmed is that in one of the source materials Nasu said that Shirou's Origin was changed by Avalon in it's attempt to heal him. For the Archer in Extra, it's said that it is hinted that it's possible his Origin is different from that when he was born. If someone normal had Avalon transplanted into them, I don't think it would change their Element or Origin(Kiritsugu is a possible example, not an accurate one though as he didn't have Avalon for as long as Shirou did nor were his injuries as deep as Shirou's). Take what I say with a grain of salt and wait for Mizukume to prove me wrong.

Anything outside of the very basic statement “Avalon is changing his origin/element to sword” is fanon