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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #143741
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  2. #143742
    Bad News LeadDemon's Avatar
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    Nero and Drake have their Riding covered by their respective skills (IP mentions covering Riding explicitly, and Voyager's subbed in for Riding on the boat Servants, with the weird exception of Drake who just got Riding and Voyager both in GO for whatever reason).

    Gil's not an Archer in Extra Materials.

    With Karna, it's just a case of conflicting info, since Riding's listed as a Class Skill for him in CCC and Extella but a Personal Skill in Apocrypha. Hard to say what that disparity's rooted in, but at any rate yeah, it's not an ironclad thing.

    This isn't really an argument I'm putting forwards, I'm just trying to answer the question of "where did these perceptions on what's a class skill come from". The answer's that those perceptions from from FSN and are generally pretty corroborated. If you ask me personally, I think the distinction's kinda arbitrary, but I'm just trying to show the general rationale here.

    Ack, sniped.

  3. #143743
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadDemon View Post

    It's "pick an organizational style you like", in the end.
    Pretty much this
    Quote Originally Posted by FSF 5, Chapter 14: Gold and Lions I
    Dumas flashed a fearless grin at Flat and Jack as he rattled off odd turns of phrase.
    "And most importantly, it's me who'll be doing the cooking."
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.


  4. #143744
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadDemon View Post
    Nero and Drake have their Riding covered by their respective skills (IP mentions covering Riding explicitly, and Voyager's subbed in for Riding on the boat Servants, with the weird exception of Drake who just got Riding and Voyager both in GO for whatever reason).
    Good point, though this is one thing I like about GO's listing since, for those Riders that don't have Riding, they still list Riding as a Class Skill but note it became something else for them.

    Gil's not an Archer in Extra Materials.
    Why list Independent Action as a Class Skill and completely ignore Magic Resistance? Could have done the same thing with Medusa by having it as a Personal Skill. Speaking of MR, his GO entry remembers that it exists so I guess that's a plus.

    This isn't really an argument I'm putting forwards, I'm just trying to answer the question of "where did these perceptions on what's a class skill come from". The answer's that those perceptions from from FSN and are generally pretty corroborated. If you ask me personally, I think the distinction's kinda arbitrary, but I'm just trying to show the general rationale here.
    Well, that wasn't what I was trying to ask earlier. More interested in why certain skills are called Class Skills: because the container grants them, because those that qualify for a specific class typically have them, something else, or some combination?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  5. #143745
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Hans has high speed incantation as a class skill in extra mats and as a personal in GO mats.
    Quote Originally Posted by FSF 5, Chapter 14: Gold and Lions I
    Dumas flashed a fearless grin at Flat and Jack as he rattled off odd turns of phrase.
    "And most importantly, it's me who'll be doing the cooking."
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.


  6. #143746
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    If we go to take High Speed Incantation as a Class Skill, F/sN Medea would have no Personal Skills whatsoever.

  7. #143747
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    She'd still have Argon Coin at EX. It's just noted she can't use it because she doesn't know how to summon dragons.

  8. #143748
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comun View Post
    If we go to take High Speed Incantation as a Class Skill, F/sN Medea would have no Personal Skills whatsoever.
    Medea has HSDW, different skill.
    Quote Originally Posted by FSF 5, Chapter 14: Gold and Lions I
    Dumas flashed a fearless grin at Flat and Jack as he rattled off odd turns of phrase.
    "And most importantly, it's me who'll be doing the cooking."
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.


  9. #143749
    Korewa Korewa Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    its been a whiiile since i read HF but i was wondering about something
    in HF Zouken's soul deteriorates, was it because of his unhealthy eating habits or was it a natural process that occurs regardless?

  10. #143750
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    Natural process regardless.

    https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20289/

    Spoiler:
    Cursed Arm: Impressive. So your previous body was not your own, either?

    Zouken: …Oh? Were you watching, Assassin? Yes, my body has perished a long time ago. I am just an old fool who has to leech off of a whole body. My body cannot handle walking under the sun like everyone else's.

    The laughing figure is indeed Matou Zouken. It took him a few minutes to attack and take over a woman's body. The speed is incredible, even for a master magus.

    Cursed Arm: …I see. So you did not care who it was. All you require is a full body, no matter whose it may be. You merely mold the body to the shape you want. What's inside your body are worms in any case. The worms will function as your organs… It is indeed a mimicry.

    Zouken: Oh my. In only one day, you have grown quite talkative. Do you remember your wish now?

    Cursed Arm: Of course. I can only be summoned by people who share my desire. Your craving for eternal life has summoned me here. What I wish for is eternity. But this raises a question. You are already immortal. You have lived for over five centuries. Then, is your wish not already granted?

    Zouken: Hah

    The old magus lets out a cry. Who would know that the cry is not a laugh, but a cry of anger? Yes, Matou Zouken is almost immortal. He will live as long as there are bodies to infest and his soul remains alive. But there is only pain. Matou Zouken does not wear his current form by choice. Turning his body into something inhuman and mimicking human form. There is a limit to this magic. It is like a machine. A machine can run forever in theory, but its parts rust over time. Parts rust. Cogwheels slide out of place. Programs become obsolete.

    Zouken: No, no. I am not immortal, Assassin. My body rots. It will rot no matter how many times I get a new body. It will rot no matter what I do. This new body has begun to rot already. Can you begin to understand the discomfort and disgrace of rotting alive, the despair upon learning that your body is not human?

    Cursed Arm: Why does it rot? Are the worms not able to make a proper body?

    Zouken: Haha, that is not true. The worms are lively. They have no problem as a body. From the start, I became a parasite in grief over my aging body. They serve perfectly as a body. I chose this method to prolong my life forever while retaining my humility.

    Cursed Arm: I am even more confused. Is that all you can manage, even with the power to perfectly preserve your body? First of all, why are you taking the form of an old man? If you are able to shape the flesh into any form, you should be able to take any appearance.

    Zouken: That is a good question. Then let me ask you. Let's say something that lost its original body tries to reproduce its body with its powers. In that case, what do you think restores the body to its original form?

    Cursed Arm: The body records itself. Even after it is burned or cut, the body is able to restore its original appearance, because there is an internal blueprint.

    Zouken: Yes. A body's composition is recorded in its genes. But it is different in my case. I lost my body, the place where my composition was recorded. I can no longer use that blueprint to recreate my body. In that case, what do you think records my body and gives it form?

    It is obvious. The soul. It is not the law of the physical world, but something of the higher order, the record of all bodies within the concept of the astral world. Yes, if one has the soul, one should be able to reconstruct their body even if the original body and genes have been lost. So, in other words, this old magus is...

    Cursed Arm: I see. You keep your soul alive, while taking the bodies of other creatures as your own. So that is the trick behind your immortality. That must be why you cannot turn yourself into anything else. What you are keeping alive is your soul, not your body. So that is why you cannot take any other form but that of Matou Zouken?

    Zouken: Of course. I am not taking form as an old man because I want to. Look, this is the only form I can create. And it is a poor creation that rots away unless I exchange it periodically. I used to be able to last fifty years before I had to exchange my body, but I have to exchange it every few months now. Who can understand the pain I feel as I rot away? Do not misunderstand, Assassin of this generation. Do not call such a thing immortality.

    Irritation can be heard in the voice of the old magus. It has been three days since Assassin's summoning. He finally sees the true nature of his summoner.

    Cursed Arm: I understand now. So what is rotting is not your body, but…

    Zouken: Yes, my soul is rotting. Time even affects ethereal bodies. Therefore, my physical body will rot. It is natural for my body to rot if my soul, the blueprint of my body, is rotten.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  11. #143751
    Korewa Korewa Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    So presumably Touko is the subject to the same thing?

  12. #143752
    Who knows. Maybe we'll find out in a few hundred years.

  13. #143753
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Trubo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    So presumably Touko is the subject to the same thing?
    Why wouldn't she be? Is there something about her doll making that implies she makes such a perfect copy of the body that it doesn't age?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Then I will ask that you pay closer attention
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    So if I'm reading this right DP is saying that the feature almost everybody hates that is bad and makes the forum objectively worse will never go away because that would negatively impact another feature that nobody has ever used and most likely never will use just in case someday, someone wants to use it. Is that right?
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    It's like if someone told me "make me a milkshake" and i was blind and they gave me the ingredients and I made a milkshake because milkshakes are good, but it turns out that milkshake was a bomb.

  14. #143754
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    So presumably Touko is the subject to the same thing?
    Is Touko A) an old man or B) a cute girl and Nasu’s baby

  15. #143755
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    So presumably Touko is the subject to the same thing?
    Yes, but it's irrelevant in practice because TM works will never get up to c. AD 2300 when it would become a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Is Touko A) an old man or B) a cute girl and Nasu’s baby
    Also that
    かん
    ぎゅう
    じゅう
    とう

    Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
    Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
    At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
    Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
    Source: 柳宗元「其為書,處則充棟宇,出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty


  16. #143756
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    Francesca seems to do a similar thing, if not outright the same thing, and she doesn't seem too much worse than before. Though it's hard to tell in her case because her before was already pretty terrible to begin with.

  17. #143757
    How much regard are werewolves treated or said to be compared to vampires in Nasulore? If at all.

  18. #143758
    Well vampire have had their own focused work, werewolves appear here and there

  19. #143759
    Quote Originally Posted by Zurvan View Post
    Well vampire have had their own focused work, werewolves appear here and there
    To clarify, since werewolves and vampires have been set up as natural enemies and/or have about an equal amount of 'fame/notoriety' (for lack of a better term) in some media, does the same hold any true in any Nasuverse works? As in, are werewolves treated about as much as a threat as DAs by the Church and other associations? How dangerous are they in comparison?

  20. #143760
    They're just another phantasmal species.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by deadfish View Post
    Spoiler:

    We know what they aren't.
    1) They're not nature spirits (anymore). They probably can be harmed by physical weapons.
    2) It's rare for their females to get pregnant.
    3) They age.
    4) Looks like they're just living in the mountains and away from civilization.
    5) Silver-fur is supposed to be the highest rank.


    That's about all we know about regular werewolves.


    Beowulf, gold-fur and higher than silver, is closer in terms of blood to the werewolf progenitor, but more like an incarnated spirit, and that's just different from regular werewolves. What we see from him is:
    1) Doesn't have a gender
    2) Doesn't age
    3) Regenerates
    4) Has 2,000 years old mystery around him giving him natural resistance to magic, but that itself doesn't protect from physical attacks
    5) Went on exploits across Europe with Touko pretty much undefeated, exploits involving a train that collects mystic eyes, an ancient giant octopus living in the North Sea, the Bermuda triangle (which leads to another world), and an Elder Title DAA
    6) Astral body-ish, materialized soul that doesn't require a body to be stabilized (like Servants that can't go back to spirit form), so can change shape to any creature on earth, which results in:
    a) Tanking a 50 ton impact by turning into a giant monkey and absorbing the blow
    b) "Blowing up" - I think there are fighting games where the werewolf character does the same thing
    c) Alice thinking that he can probably simply change his form into a sturdier or faster animal to handle bullets and rockets

    Lastly,
    8) Getting beaten by a high school kid

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