Reinforcement falls under another Magic Attribute (i.e. a different application of the elements from Projection). In other words, Reinforcement and Projection are not intrinsically related.Originally Posted by Mike1984
Shirou's version of Projection relies on UBW, so if you take away UBW, he cannot project, but he might still able to reinforce.
EDIT:
This is probably also why Shirou can't "reinforce" Ass Dagger into the Jeweled Sword.
But, if that's the case, why is Shirou so good at reinforcement? He should be as shitty at that as he is at everything else, whereas in fact it's all that he can actually do initially.
No, it's definitely why he can't. As soon as he tries to use alteration on it, he's not using UBW any more, and thus he loses the ability to create such a good copy.This is probably also why Shirou can't "reinforce" Ass Dagger into the Jeweled Sword.
^He's good at Reinforcement because of that strange thaumaturgy he uses where he sends his Od into machines to get understanding of them. I think...?
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Yes, that's actually the application of the initial step of Projection: the analysis of the structure of the object. It's mentioned in CM3.
In other words, Shirou is good at Reinforcement because he is good at Projection.
This part is fuzzy in my memory so I might lose my cookie for getting it wrong (I think it was discussed (yet again) on the old forum with key pieces of information provided by the "Types" of our forum like arai):
Shirou's Reinforcement, that is, the successful version performed by Shirou, is also an extension of his UBW. He can just barely do the normal version (with a success rate of 1%) as well but it's when he's extending his UBW that he gets his real results. It's a single component of UBW so doing it by itself comes naturally to Shirou when he does it by instinct.
When he tries to do it "the right way" as per Kiritsugu, that's when he gets all screwed up.
One thing that's helpful is to not limit UBW to just "the world inside Shirou". It encompasses more than that as it's the whole of Shirou and his magecraft. Archer wasn't kidding when he said that there's only one magic that Shirou can do.
According to CM3, it goes something like this:
Shirou's Origin is Sword -> Element becomes Sword -> Sucks at sorceries involving the Five Elements (basically everything Rin does and deems "proper sorcery") -> Develops UBW -> Projection
As a magus, if your Origin has an exceptionally strong manifestation, your Origin will become your Element. (Which makes a lot of sense, think Araya Souren. I don't think anyone doubts his Element is "Stillness").
Does the 5th war TA always needs to get some 'Servant parts' before gaining the ability to talk and think rationally?
Yes, because he wasn't summoned "properly". Zouken fucked around with the system to get him, so until he ate Assassin he wasn't properly formed, I think.
Assassin? You mean Lancer.
The Hall of Selected Cruor Praise
No, he ate Assassin too.
Hope Rides With His Godly Ronin/Cowboy Brother In Law
Guess I forgot. I just remember he was summoned using Assassin's corpse.
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Sorcery or magic? Which is the common one and which is the special one? Different translations have contradicted each other. So, which is correct?
In Progress: Melty Blood
Complete: Garden of Sinners, Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, Tsukihime Plus+Disc, Kagetsu Tohya
Mirror Moon used Sorcery for the special one and Magic for the normal one in FSN, but around here we usually use Magic/True Magic for the special one and Magecraft/Thaumaturgy for the normal one.
The actual Japanese IIRC is "Mahou" for the special one and "Majutsu" for the normal one. Really as small as the difference between "Magic" and "Magical techniques".
Personally, I would say that you should never refer to true magic as just "magic". Whilst it may be the technically correct word to use, it's just too confusing, especially to newcomers. Hell, even those of us who are aware of the distinction sometimes get lazy and just call the whole lot "magic".
Hmm, I'm wondering how Japanese fandom makes the distinction. "Magic" really is a generic term. I wonder how many people see "Mahoutsukai no Yoru" and think it only refers to regular "magic" instead of True Magic...
Wow, they sure did make it a subtle difference, haha.
I think sorcery fits the special one better. Magic is commonplace all around. However, "mahou" does mean magic... so it's like a stalemate.
That's true magic? Wow. That makes things more fun. I guess this is where romanji fails, lol.
In Progress: Melty Blood
Complete: Garden of Sinners, Fate/stay night, Tsukihime, Tsukihime Plus+Disc, Kagetsu Tohya
Well, they're just completely different words in Japanese. "Majutsu" and "mahou". So "mahoutsukai" couldn't refer to a regular magus ("majutsushi") because the magic they use is "majutsu" and not "mahou".
In English it's just a clusterfuck of terms nobody can agree on. Like just pulling some random examples from a single page of TM Wiki:
Majutsu = magecraft.
Majutsu riron = thaumaturgical theory.
Majutsu tokusei = sorcery trait.
wat
I could be wrong, but I believe the Japanese fandom calls mahou "mahou" and majutsu "majutsu".
Yeah but if I went up to talk to a newbie to the Nasuverse in Japan, and said "Mahou" they probably wouldn't think I meant True Magic, they would just think it's regular "magic". So it's the same trap we fall into, that we can try to be very proper about how we distinguish between "magic" and "magecraft" or "mahou" and "majutsu" but in the end, magic/mahou is very generic.
Well, there's not going to be any confusion of terms across various works and sources like there is here. So if they've read enough to see the terms defined (i.e., F/SN), they're not going to have any trouble knowing what you're talking about. If they haven't read enough to see the terms defined, then it's pointless to ask them about it in the first place. It's not like fiction hasn't been using common terms in unique ways since, like, forever. There's only a communication failure if people can read the entire story and still not get what the hell the author was going on about.
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