Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[SpoonyViking]

I don't think you know how Tamamo fights. Just check out all of her fighting animations from Extra to Extella to FGO and tell me if that's what a wizard normally fights like.

I did play through her Extella route, yes, and what I saw was someone blasting away with elemental spells and the occasional pitiful bare-handed attack.
And yes, that's how Wizards were basically envisioned by designers from day 1: blasting away with Magic Missiles, and Fireballs, and Cone of Colds, etc. It's just that, like I said, savvy players realised pure blasting was a fool's game and focused on save-or-die (or save-or-suck) spells instead (particularly in 3rd Edition).

[Rafflesiac]

And then you have Medea and her pure blasting.

[Iceblade44]

She used her NP to buff the entire army in Extella Link, enhanced her phys strength so that she could KO Altera with the castration fist, revived Jeanne from the remains of her saint graph in Link (which can come into play when she get her hands on a dying servant for example). She also summoned shadow Tamamo Cat and shadow Tamamo lancer in Nezha interlude using some ??? skill. And yes she can pull additional tails to power up under emergency situations.

She is an irregular Caster, she doesn't need or have to fight like Medea. Also even if she can't tamper with the grail, as the goddess of leylines who knew every nook and cranny of it via feng shui, she will be able to take advantage of it or tamper with it to simply fuck with the others or the greater grail. Also as one who can see the truth of the world and learn information from that, she has quite good advantage when it comes to identifying things.

Also the battlefield is Japan, she should be getting a huge amount of fame boost. Who knows, she might get another NP or something.

With all that being said, I don't think Atrum would last long or win in the first place, it's not easy to work with Tamamo, she will not do shit or try to do her best if you're not of her interest and will just bluntly follow orders. And Atrum is not the kind of Master I see making good strats or can get her to use the many stuffs she refuses to use.

Tamamo is very powerful yeah though she still is kinda of a weak Servant at base level. She can do so much in general but she tends to limit herself. In this situation I agree with you that her and Atrum wouldn’t work because I doubt she would pull her more powerful stuff for him and probably be taken out by one of the other Servants more quite early. In fact she would probably kick the bucket when Kirei sends Cu after them seeing how her Luck is so low, which wouldn’t be as dire of a problem really because since she is a Master of curses I would assume she could figure out a way to counteract Gae Bolg. But with Atrum as Master nope she probably put her expertise away as she normally does.

[Lily Emilio]

I did play through her Extella route, yes, and what I saw was someone blasting away with elemental spells and the occasional pitiful bare-handed attack.And yes, that's how Wizards were basically envisioned by designers from day 1: blasting away with Magic Missiles, and Fireballs, and Cone of Colds, etc.

You do realize that every single basic attacks that leads to the combo that trigger her spells are all melee kicks right? In fact her standard fighting style in Extra, CCC, Foxtail is bashing enemies with her mirror. Wizards don't scratch enemies with claws, don't slap enemies with tail, don't kick enemies most of the time, don't bash enemies with a handy mirror, don't make copies of such mirrors to turn herself into a spin wheel.

What would fit your analogy is that she plays like a complete noob who play the Wizard class but don't play like the designer envisoned more than half of the time.

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Tamamo is very powerful yeah though she still is kinda of a weak Servant at base level. She can do so much in general but she tends to limit herself. In this situation I agree with you that her and Atrum wouldn’t work because I doubt she would pull her more powerful stuff for him and probably be taken out by one of the other Servants more quite early. In fact she would probably kick the bucket when Kirei sends Cu after them seeing how her Luck is so low, which wouldn’t be as dire of a problem really because since she is a Master of curses I would assume she could figure out a way to counteract Gae Bolg. But with Atrum as Master nope she probably put her expertise away as she normally does.

Yes. Considering what happened in Extella Zero where she literally just let Atrum burn her to escape, I don't see her bother trying to fight even seriously, like, at all. Furthermore she kept showing more stuffs every new scenarios she is in. Wtf is Seven Transformation, how can she summon shadow servants, how can she make copies of her mirror??? As a Master if you don't get her to tell you what exactly can she do, you just can't win.

[Iceblade44]

Again, monk/wizard multi class

[SpoonyViking]

And then you have Medea and her pure blasting.

Yeah, but that was only part of her repertoire, arguably a small one. See her attack on Shirou's house in Fate: she uses a lot of "summoning" spells with her familiars, some blasting for direct offense, flight for defense, both Rule Breaker and the magical ooze with which she tries to imprison Saber for debuffs... Not to mention draining the town's energy and hijacking the Grail to summon Sasaki. Even at her blastiest in her fight with Archer she's still employing teleportation and flight for evasion and spatial freezing to "stun" Archer.

[Iceblade44]

You do realize that every single basic attacks that leads to the combo that trigger her spells are all melee kicks right? In fact her standard fighting style in Extra, CCC, Foxtail is bashing enemies with her mirror. Wizards don't scratch enemies with claws, don't slap enemies with tail, don't kick enemies most of the time, don't bash enemies with a handy mirror, don't make copies of such mirrors to turn herself into a spin wheel.

What would fit your analogy is that she plays like a complete noob who play the Wizard class but don't play like the designer envisoned more than half of the time.

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Yes. Considering what happened in Extella Zero where she literally just let Atrum burn her to escape, I don't see her bother trying to fight even seriously, like, at all. Furthermore she kept showing more stuffs every new scenarios she is in. Wtf is Seven Transformation, how can she summon shadow servants, how can she make copies of her mirror??? As a Master if you don't get her to tell you what exactly can she do, you just can't win.

Tbh I don’t find the shadow Servant thing to be that special. I mean we have other examples other Servants being able to do it as well, typically with Art Graph Grails yeah though I do wonder why no one ever mentions that Tamamo’s NP is basically a grail in the most technical definition used in Fate, lots of magical energy, that is to say infinite

[Tobias]

Y’all plebs and not knowing the joy of running a muscle wizard

[Laserman]

Seeing how Atrum summoned Tamamo in the backstory for Fate Extella

I don't remember reading anything about that in the game.

[Lily Emilio]

Tbh I don’t find the shadow Servant thing to be that special. I mean we have other examples other Servants being able to do it as well, typically with Art Graph Grails yeah though I do wonder why no one ever mentions that Tamamo’s NP is basically a grail in the most technical definition used in Fate, lots of magical energy, that is to say infinite

Yes servants can do that with NPs or a skill, but she did not use a grail or her NP to do that tho. Nezha was even wondering if she is using bunshin or bunrei, which means it might be the whole "she can create minions from her tail" thing. But that's not the point, the point is that it is something you did not see her doing anywhere until Nezha's interlude, which means she is basically hiding stuffs and only reveal them when it is called for, something you really want to avoid from your servant. If you want to win the war, you must have as much information about your servant's abilities as possible so you can plan strats, duh.

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I don't remember reading anything about that in the game.

http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread...=1#post2540101

[SpoonyViking]

You do realize that every single basic attacks that leads to the combo that trigger her spells are all melee kicks right? In fact her standard fighting style in Extra, CCC, Foxtail is bashing enemies with her mirror.

I also remember Foxtail specifically noting her attacking with the mirror is merely meant to keep the enemies away while she casts curses at them. But fine, I'll grant you that she does get too much in melee for a typical Wizard.

Again, monk/wizard multi class

Unarmed proficiencies were available to all classes in AD&D. She might just be a Wizard who spent her few weapon proficiencies in unarmed fighting, possibly took a martial arts style from Oriental Adventures.
Then again, her strongest attack is apparently her boosting herself and going to town with her martial arts. Yeah, let me revise my earlier statement and agree with Mizukume: she's a 3E Monk/Wizard with that Prestige Class that lets her advance in unarmed fighting and spellcasting levels at the same time, but who mostly sticks to an unoptimised gameplay style.

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I don't remember reading anything about that in the game.

One of its many weaknesses, yes.

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Y’all plebs and not knowing the joy of running a muscle wizard

Actually a viable character build in Legend of Five Rings.

[Iceblade44]

Yes servants can do that with NPs or a skill, but she did not use a grail or her NP to do that tho. Nezha was even wondering if she is using bunshin or bunrei, which means it might be the whole "she can create minions from her tail" thing. But that's not the point, the point is that it is something you did not see her doing anywhere until Nezha's interlude, which means she is basically hiding stuffs and only reveal them when it is called for, something you really want to avoid from your servant. If you want to win the war, you must have as much information about your servant's abilities as possible so you can plan strats, duh.

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http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread...=1#post2540101

Yeah but interludes tend to show off a lot of neat abilities that tends to be one offs so I don’t put so much weight into it. Especially since it’s just shadow Servants, who are upper class filler mooks but still filler mooks. Now I do see the interesting lore bits of her bing able to clone herself, with as you said that it could link in to how she created her Alter Egos. But really unless she’s at a significant power that she can create bunrei’s of herself as strong as Servants(which I think three tail stage isn’t enough) i don’t see it playing much into her overall tactics, or more correctly as adding that much into her already expansive bag of magic tricks. What I mean by this that we already know that Tamamo’s skill in Witchcraft is phenomenal and the stuff we typically uses is just the basic stuff so I don’t see this as that surprisingly an addition of what she can do. It’s just not that revelant since Tamamo using to full breath of her magic isn’t something that would be part of her normal battle plan.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Tamamo would be a Kung-Fu Wizard then.

[Lily Emilio]

Yeah but interludes tend to show off a lot of neat abilities that tends to be one offs so I don’t put so much weight into it. Especially since it’s just shadow Servants, who are upper class filler mooks but still filler mooks. Now I do see the interesting lore bits of her bing able to clone herself, with as you said that it could link in to how she created her Alter Egos. But really unless she’s at a significant power that she can create bunrei’s of herself as strong as Servants(which I think three tail stage isn’t at that level of power) i don’t see it playing much into her overall tactics, or more correctly as adding that much into her already expansive bag of magic tricks.

She did that in 1 tail form, not 2, not 3. In Link she is in fact the person who explains to Hakuno and co how shadow servants and clone servants are created, who knows what she can do if you give her preps like idk allowing her to connect to the leyline for example. And she only summoned 2 in the interlude, but what if she can summon even more? What is the limit? We don't know.

It’s just not that revelant since Tamamo using to full breath of her magic isn’t something that would be part of her normal battle plan.

Again, that's not my point. She can use magic to increase her boobs size, make dick grows and it also doesn't matter to the war, but even small stuffs like that a Master should try to get out of their servants for the best strats possible. This applies to any servants, not just Tamamo.

[Iceblade44]

Yeah but that sort of normal strategy doesn't work for Tamamo. She would worm her way out of it with 4th wall breaking randomness. You won't ever get her to spill the beans on info unless she's either on the position of neutral observer or out of guilt.

[Iceblade44]

Also I have doubts of her being able to fully tap on leylines or to phrase it better, to actually make proper use of it. As her profile says Territory Creation isnt something she's good at. She is a goddess representing leylines yeah but we have an explicit statement that reality manipulation isn't her forte. While it does seem the problems lie on her personality then her ability still I dont see that as a factor.

[castor212]

For all that xuanxang is a caster
We havent actually see her do any actual magic

[Iceblade44]

For all that xuanxang is a caster
We havent actually see her do any actual magic

Sutras are magic yo, just keep muttering them and you are going fine

[castor212]

It does nothing but making me flipping my jpdict to no avaik

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I know I asked this back in July, but do astras count as magecraft/magic in the Nasuverse, or are they only present in NPs and the like?