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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #138541
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Also, do more people have conceptual or elemental Origins? I ask because everyone in KnK has a conceptual Origin, yet Rin and Sakura have elemental type origins, and Shirou has Sword thanks to Avalon.

  2. #138542
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Also, do more people have conceptual or elemental Origins? I ask because everyone in KnK has a conceptual Origin, yet Rin and Sakura have elemental type origins, and Shirou has Sword thanks to Avalon.
    Your mixing the two things up. Elements and Origins are two different thing. Like Kiritsugu Origin is serving and binding, his elements is fire and earth. Another Origin that poped up recently was Holmes. His origin is Elucidation
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


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  3. #138543
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceblade44 View Post
    Your mixing the two things up. Elements and Origins are two different thing. Like Kiritsugu Origin is serving and binding, his elements is fire and earth. Another Origin that poped up recently was Holmes. His origin is Elucidation
    Maybe. What I was really asking was whether everybody had an Origin that referred to a concept or not because I thought Sakura's Origin was Imaginary Numbers, and Rin's Origin was an Imaginary Element. But, I guess my original question has been sort of answered.

  4. #138544
    That's not what he's saying (EDIT: This was to Iceblade originally, I was just slow in posting). I understand it as him basically saying that the ones that appear in KnK like "worthlessness" or "stillness" are very conceptual in and of themselves (same with Kerry's), whereas Shirou's "sword" is less conceptual and more "just a thing". Like how the former seem to refer to a "state of being" rather.

    But then, I don't really think that's fair. They only appear to be "more conceptual" I feel because of awakenings/close to awakenings/origin bullets etc. They actually got a chance to actively act out their effect on something, which isn't really the cast most of the time. But to be honest, so did Shirou's kinda.

    And I mean, it's not like every single person in KnK has something that you can immediately class as "conceptual" while saying the opposite about other series' character.

    FSN/FZ:
    Shirou: Sword (original unknown)
    Kerry: Severing and Binding
    Sakura: Imaginary Numbers
    Rin: Also an imaginary element, probably Hollow?

    KnK:
    Ryougi: Nothingness
    Kirie: Nothingness
    Fujinon: Nothingness
    Araya: Stillness
    Alba: Refutation
    Tomoe: Worthlessness
    Azaka: Taboo
    Kurogiri: Nostalgia
    Lio: Consumption

    Proto:
    Nigel: Obsession

    FGO:
    Sherlock: Elucidation
    Musashi: Zero

    So really, they're all pretty "conceptual" in the sense that they're like "guidance in life" which is what they're supposed to be and all, except for Shirou who had his origin externally altered, and then Rin and Sakura are just weird I guess.
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  5. #138545
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savepoints View Post
    That's not what he's saying (EDIT: This was to Iceblade originally, I was just slow in posting). I understand it as him basically saying that the ones that appear in KnK like "worthlessness" or "stillness" are very conceptual in and of themselves (same with Kerry's), whereas Shirou's "sword" is less conceptual and more "just a thing". Like how the former seem to refer to a "state of being" rather.

    But then, I don't really think that's fair. They only appear to be "more conceptual" I feel because of awakenings/close to awakenings/origin bullets etc. They actually got a chance to actively act out their effect on something, which isn't really the cast most of the time. But to be honest, so did Shirou's kinda.

    And I mean, it's not like every single person in KnK has something that you can immediately class as "conceptual" while saying the opposite about other series' character.

    FSN/FZ:
    Shirou: Sword (original unknown)
    Kerry: Severing and Binding
    Sakura: Imaginary Numbers
    Rin: Also an imaginary element, probably Hollow?

    KnK:
    Ryougi: Nothingness
    Kirie: Nothingness
    Fujinon: Nothingness
    Araya: Stillness
    Alba: Refutation
    Tomoe: Worthlessness
    Azaka: Taboo
    Kurogiri: Nostalgia
    Lio: Consumption

    Proto:
    Nigel: Obsession

    FGO:
    Sherlock: Elucidation
    Musashi: Zero

    So really, they're all pretty "conceptual" in the sense that they're like "guidance in life" which is what they're supposed to be and all, except for Shirou who had his origin externally altered, and then Rin and Sakura are just weird I guess.
    Thank you. That's exactly what I meant. Also, what does Musashi's Zero origin even do?

  6. #138546
    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Thank you. That's exactly what I meant. Also, what does Musashi's Zero origin even do?
    Probably has to do with how Musashi sought "zero" as a state of being or somehting. I don't know really, someone who's more well read on Musashi could probably give you a better connection.
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    Ugh cokesakto no no no
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.
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  7. #138547
    Knight of 'Sumanai' Iceblade44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Thank you. That's exactly what I meant. Also, what does Musashi's Zero origin even do?
    It allows her to be very good with a sword. The concept of Zero is entirely what her sword philosophy is centered on
    "Only in my company, will you not be a monster"


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  8. #138548
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SirGauoftheSquareTable's Avatar
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    So, something like Mushin no Shin then?

  9. #138549
    Fuckin' chicken grill!!! Kotonoha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walnut Sparks View Post
    Do any official Type-Moon materials refer to the Tohsakas or Matous by a word that would better be translated as "clan" rather than "family"? Or is referring to them as "clans" just a fandom tendency?
    The latter

  10. #138550
    Actually speaking of origins, I was reminded of this when seeing Shiki, Fujino, and Kirie having the same origin. I vaguely recall Araya saying something like "What I needed were individuals with the same origin as yours, that's why Kirie and Fujino were sacrifices just for you" in the book, but I can't remember if the reasoning behind this is ever brought up (although it's possible I missed it, reading an entire book with pretty half-assed JP skills), or what the reason could possibly be for this. So what is it? Is it just that they, who had the same origins, would have been guided in similar ways through life, and interacting with this would somehow push Shiki closer to her own origin?
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    Ugh cokesakto no no no
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.
    Heaven's Feel Manga Archive

  11. #138551
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs View Post
    Is Kerry's Origin a "single concept" despite being two words, or is it like Rin/Heine/anyone else who's born with multiple Elemental affinities?
    Yeah it's a single concept the "official" term is composite origin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Maybe. What I was really asking was whether everybody had an Origin that referred to a concept or not because I thought Sakura's Origin was Imaginary Numbers, and Rin's Origin was an Imaginary Element. But, I guess my original question has been sort of answered.
    Quote Originally Posted by BL doc
    - 全ての元である渦の中で、閃く稲光のように発生する何らかの方向性。"……をする"という意味 づけが流れて 、その流れに適った物質を象り、時としてソレは人間になる。

    "In this Spiral that is the source of everything, a directional impulse can be born like lighting. A directive with the meaning of "To do..." begins to flow, and particles compatible with this flow start to form objects. Sometimes, the objects formed are humans."
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    A tree will have the origin of tree.
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    That's exaggerating my point.

  12. #138552
    Another question I had about origins, do they have their basis in some aspect of eastern myth/culture like a lot of the other metaphysical stuff that appears in the Nasuverse?
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    Ugh cokesakto no no no
    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kateikyo View Post
    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.
    Heaven's Feel Manga Archive

  13. #138553
    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by savepoints View Post
    Sakura: Imaginary Numbers
    Rin: Also an imaginary element, probably Hollow?
    It was Sakura with Hollow and Rin with probably Nothing

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by savepoints View Post
    Another question I had about origins, do they have their basis in some aspect of eastern myth/culture like a lot of the other metaphysical stuff that appears in the Nasuverse?
    IIRC Siriel talked about this in a blog somewhere because the theory of forms ties into both Gil's "I have all prototypes" and the idea of origin. It's not East Asian specific tho.

  14. #138554
    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    It was Sakura with Hollow and Rin with probably Nothing
    You're right, I only remembered just now that Hollow and Imaginary Numbers were the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kateikyo View Post
    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.
    Heaven's Feel Manga Archive

  15. #138555
    BORN TO REJOICE Walnut Sparks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotonoha View Post
    The latter
    Thank you.
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  16. #138556
    吸血鬼 Vampire AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    Details on what castor said:

    Lancers with A++ rank Luck: JDASL
    Who?

  17. #138557

  18. #138558
    吸血鬼 Vampire AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Jailter
    Thanks!

  19. #138559
    リビングデッド Living Dead LightUnite's Avatar
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    I'm confused about something: Why is Arturia's ideals considered wrong? Part of her ideals is putting others before yourself, right? So if that's wrong, why is it seen as a positive attribute in most societies? And if there's a detail in this that is only told in the VN, forgive me, but I must have missed that detail. And I will freely admit I freely admit that I think of the idea of putting others before yourself is, at the very least, a noble quality, right?

    I'm just confused, okay?

  20. #138560
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six pinetree's Avatar
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    Just look at Shirou

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