Originally Posted by castor212
so... gravity? :thonk:True ether. The power that births planets. That which composes heavenly bodies. The fifth theoretical element.
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so, planets in nasuverse are sort of living beings (having their own will, etc) right?
Depends what you mean by having their own will I guess.
Ugh, Extraverse confuses me so much. Is the Throne of Heroes and Moon Cell Heroic Spirit records in this world one and the same?
Also, how is Scathach a Servant in Moon Cell?
Oooohh.
Last edited by Wandering Swordwoman; March 26th, 2019 at 07:37 PM.
Spoiler:
Wandering on internet
I was watching Yu-gi-oh yesterday and a Saint Graph is just a Yu-gi-oh card.
Like Yugi's Dark Magician and Arkana's Dark Magician are both Dark Magicians, that is to say they have the same attack points, defense points, star ranking, element, w/e.
But they're not completely the same because of different owners, different experiences, etc.
Which is why I guess the Servants are given to you as cards.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
So you‘re saying sigurd is kaibaman.
"An ideal is only an ideal after all. As long as you embrace that ideal, the friction with reality will continue to increase. So you will someday face reality and will have to pay for your compromises"
They are not one and the same mostly in the sense that Moon Cell has much more stuff, especially of people who never actually became Heroic Spirits or even wraiths. It can also make stuff up, has an easier time coming up with conceptual servants like Alice.
This has been slightly ruined by the fact that all Moon Cell servants are now summonable in FGO. We can thank money for ruining setting consistency once again.
It is also actually easier for Scathach or Merlin to be a Servant in the Moon Cell, because it does not require them to be dead, which is why they shouldn't be summonable regularly. See also Emiya still being around at the time of Extra.
Three years of FGO and its summoning system still confuses me. They don't really explain why BS servants can be summoned like Alice.
Yes they do.
NR is Alice because when she was just a book due to not having a Master in London, Andersen made her remember Alice.
She's Alice when we summon her because the FATE system is all about summoning the Saint Graph we registered, see all the heroes and alternate versions that are not on the Throne but are In Chaldea.
This is pure fake news. Moon Cell records heroic spirits exactly the same as the Throne. Too similar to the point you can consider them one and the same, according to Blossom Sensei segments. And it was so similar that the Tamamo Nine who were born in Moon Cell ended up also in the throne. The Emiya in Extra is directly summoned from the throne. Moon Cell summons servants by connecting to the throne and create the digital body for the servants to manifest. This process was later used by Hakuno to connect to the realm of gods and call down Venus's power to buff Nero. Heck, the summoning process is too costly Moon Cell cannot summon the same servant more than once.
Scathach is already dead once due to FGO. And once you are dead then you're recorded. So she is summonable. It's similar to Amakusa being in Ruler class cuz lul I got in the class once by cheating. I don't know what you're talking about Moon Cell servants in FGO. But I would assume you talk about the Sakurafaces. Chaldea got their saint graph data from BB and summoned them that way through the usual saint graph summoning method.
I mean it's fake news now but it's pretty clear all that was added later on when Nasu decided to connect Extra with the rest of the verse through FGO (I guess he decided that for Extella actually, since that was being written before).
And FGO makes a point of mentioning how Scathach is not properly a HS and that it's not going to be possible to summon her after the incineration.
Blossom Sensei was released with Extra and way b4 FGO.
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That is assuming you use the Throne records. With Saint Graph records you can summon everyone.
Yeah but even HS that are no longer a possibility can be called if you have their Saint Graph.
Just like how we can still summon CG Kerry even though he doesn't exist in the throne after we fix the Singularity he comes from because we have his Saint Graph recorded, the Moon Cell should be able to summon Scathatch if it recorded hers while she was briefly killed by the incineration of humanity.
Tldr: who needs a magic recording on the throne, we have our own copies of their character sheets.
I mean even if it actually uses Throne of Heroes information, the whole way that Moon Cell operates with information is completely different, leading it to summon vastly different servants. It apparently has no 20th century ban, it gets to use gods, it can take bits and pieces of one being and slap them onto elsewhere. That's why you get Extra!Vlad, Andersen, Elisabeth and in general the prevalence of stuff like Innocent Monster, or why Alteregos are a thing at all. I seem to recall there being a note that even though our Robin is a real HS, Moon Cell could summon a bunch of others that aren't.
Basically, it deliberately manipulates the matter it works with. Regular Grail does not do that. So the possible cast in Moon Cell is much wider.
Then this only gets worse in FGO, and you start getting complete bullshit like Salieri or Lobo, both of which are admittedly very cool, but leaning on suspension of disbelief a lot.
IIRC Extella actually confirmed that they were just summoned from the Throne of Heroes, or at least that the Moon Cell has read-write permissions to it? I might be getting it wrong, but I distinctly remember that conversation coming up at some point.
Yeah but how does the Moon Cell have Scat's Saint Graph?
Wrong. There is nothing that stated the servants Moon Cell summoned can only be in Moon Cell or is a production of it. Again, what it did was simply giving the heroic spirits a digital frame in the cyberworld. The data is still completely and purely from the throne.
Wut. In FSN it was stated that by the 21st century the most recent HS are from 100 years prior, which means there are indeed 20th century HS. What ban are you talking about?It apparently has no 20th century ban
It can't. Even a manifestation of one within the Moon Cell puts too much strain on the system, because they are concepts and concepts are treated as literal in there.it gets to use gods
It can't. If you're talking about BB she only grabbed some data of some goddesses and installed on her clones. It's not like she went to those goddesses and pluck their skills. This is no different from one hacking the grail and got some stuffs from it outside of the norm.it can take bits and pieces of one being and slap them onto elsewhere.
None of this has anything to do with Moon Cell. These heroic spirits are tainted by history itself in the first place.That's why you get Extra!Vlad, Andersen, Elisabeth and in general the prevalence of stuff like Innocent Monster
That is BB hacking. They are more like AIs with some cheat skills added to them than actual servants, hence High Servants.or why Alteregos are a thing at all.
Robin Hood is a legend, heroic spirits are basically past phenomenon being recorded as a recording band. So obviously anyone that fit the motif of Robin Hood are also there. There was nothing saying Moon Cell went out of its way to record additional Robins that the throne did not record.I seem to recall there being a note that even though our Robin is a real HS, Moon Cell could summon a bunch of others that aren't.
That wider cast is still from the throne. I still don't see any evidence of your claim that Moon Cell recorded different stuffs from Throne.Basically, it deliberately manipulates the matter it works with. Regular Grail does not do that. So the possible cast in Moon Cell is much wider.
What exactly was wrong with Salieri? And Lobo was an experiment by Baal.Then this only gets worse in FGO, and you start getting complete bullshit like Salieri or Lobo, both of which are admittedly very cool, but leaning on suspension of disbelief a lot.
You seems to dislike any system that allows the much larger cast of heroes to be summoned and want just the Fuyuki stuffs. Good for you, but none of that proved that the new system is bad nor Moon Cell recorded stuffs different from throne.
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It records phenomenon from multiple different timelines and could even see FGO. Obviously it should have not only Scathach data but also all of the other irregular servants. It's just a matter of if it can recreate their saint graph in the cyberworld. Heck, Hakuno recording Karl and Charles in Link is an obvious nod to them being available later in other works, mostly FGO. Just let Chaldea have their data from a collab and you got them.
Last edited by Lily Emilio; March 27th, 2019 at 08:14 AM.
You're mismembering a bit there, I don't remember there ever being any implication that Moon Cell facilitates Innocent Monstering, and the Robin situation is just a Fate original backstory in which Robin is a title and there are many of them that can be summoned, nothing to do with the Moon Cell either.
Yes they were all summoned from the throne. And it was not even Extella that said it first. It was in Blossom Sensei that said the Emiya from Extra is a legit heroic spirit in the throne that was summoned.
Its just observation.
In Stay Night and Zero, only Kojiro is an irregular summon, and the game goes to pretty great lengths to explain how that's possible. Even in the damn Apo, only Jack is an irregular summon, in the similar boat as Kojiro except that she doesn't have the profit of a caster screwing with the system to make a wraith summonable, but then Apo grail might not be exactly regular. I want to call bullshit on Fran also, but that's just tough to believe thing presented as a normal summon.
In all three of these, everyone's powers are based on what they actually had in life and class modifiers. You can argue that Shakespeare rides that servant container tide a lot, but it's always been a thing with him that he might totally be a pretty competent magus keeping a low profile. But in general, fame boost is only a thing for Vlad, and it's an option.
Extra Vlad can't choose not to be a madman. It's not a skill that he activates, it's a skill that he is. Further, in Extra and CCC, half of the Servants available are irregular summons, up to and including Shiki and Warc, especially the latter of which is nonsense. Damn near everyone is fairly to incredibly distorted by fame boost, including two of the playable trio, and Imperial Privilege is only believable because it feels like Moon Cell would make it possible if it says on the sheet that it is. Historical image matters a lot more here, this is obvious.
I mean, was this not the intent? Let's make a weird Tron game with weird servants, and explain why they're weird by it being a Tron game?
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