Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Ataraxia]

Didn't Gilgamesh summon Heroic Spirits from before they were born into his time? Since they counted as 'dead' technically? Couldn't the CF theoretically do sth similar with Artoria in defeating Sefar?

[asterism42]

Throne is outside time, isn't it? Summoning Servants from the future has been a Thing since Stay night.

[Ruisu]

But aren't grands summoned for things like beasts? Was sefar really a threat to humanity?

[Ataraxia]

Throne is outside time, isn't it? Summoning Servants from the future has been a Thing since Stay night.

This as well.

[forumghost]

But aren't grands summoned for things like beasts? Was sefar really a threat to humanity?

Sefar was a threat to everything. It killed God's wholesale and was the primary attack unit of Velber, an Omnipotent Space Computer bent on destroying all sentient life and collecting their Data (so basically Brainiac+Unicron)

[Ruisu]

Ah right, I was totally mistaking Sefar for Hun Altera. The latter was born from the the titan's dead body right?

[forumghost]

Ah right, I was totally mistaking Sefar for Hun Altera. The latter was born from the the titan's dead body right?

Correct.

Velber= Evil Omnipotent Parasitic Planet
Sefar= Copy of Titan Altera downloaded onto the planet from the Moon Cell (the original remained trapped in the Moon Cell until Extella)
Altera= Atilla the Hun, who was found inside the Titan's remains.
Smol!Altera= Hakuno Daughteru

[Lily Emilio]

Alright so regarding the velber. What exactly defeated the altera titan in 12000 bc? I insist that it was the execaliber, but my friend seems to reject that theory.

What is the truth? Was excaliber what defeated Altera or was it something we don't know about?

We don't know the exact person. However the reason the theory of CF summoning was rejected by a lot is due to multiple things that was stated in Extella:

- Archimedes said Velber is beyond the Counter Force. And back then the ancient gods were basically the Counter Force's agents.
- It was stated that the God of War was close to winning, but he was defeated and lost his candy sword to Altera. And then after that the holy sword appeared. Knowing that the candy sword is prototype of god-forged armaments, it was speculated that after that very close fight between the two, the planet thought of something similar to the candy sword that is much more effective -> made the holy sword. We do knew that Vasavi Shakti is capable of harming Sefar as well, meaning the Hindu gods had the tool but did not use it, so it might be that they also got the same idea as the planet but a bit slower.
- Since the God of War was close to winning and the whole LB5 in FGO atm, the theory that it is a timeline where he actually managed to defeat Sefar and managed to preserve the ruling of the gods but it was pruned, is a popular one.
- If Artoria/Arthur defeated Altera, naturally she would recognize them. However even the big Sefar did not recognize them. Instead, the "holy sword wielder" is listed as the natural enemy. And then in Saber Alter interlude in FGO it was the sword itself that Altera was scared of. This means that the sword is the actual threat and not the wielder, and that is why people thought a random human that was entrusted with the holy sword could do the job just fine back then, no need for a summoning of a heroic spirit.

[CrazyLich79]

Weird question, does the Element or Origin of a Magus affect the way magecraft that can be used by just about anyone like Reinforcement and Structural Analysis work when used by them?

[Dullahan]

The existence of "Velber" is a conspiracy theory propagated by Geth infiltrators. Do not believe their lies!

[Rafflesiac]

Who's the green Saberface?

[Dullahan]

Paid DLC.

[warellis]

The existence of "Velber" is a conspiracy theory propagated by Geth infiltrators. Do not believe their lies!

But geth do not infiltrate.

Who's the green Saberface?

You wouldn't have red, blue, & green Saberfaces?

Anyways, someone claimed this about Shirou's RM but I don't think it's true, because I thought he pretty much unlocked it on his own with no real help (as in you can't really "teach" how to manifest an RM)?:

Actually, without Kerry (and Taiga), Shirou probably wouldn't have his RM. He'd probably only have Reinforcement, like Miyu's Shirou had before the class card. Though Avalon's possible non-existence might have also been a factor; it hasn't been confirmed either way afaik.

I used to ponder whether Shirou got his Projection first which developed into UBW, or if he got UBW which allows him to Project so effectively, finding the Catch-22 quite peculiar. But the Zero drama CD pretty much cleared it all up; the fake nerve circuit method is the point of origin for it all. Like Taiga says, he learned something entirely new and made his own path.

[Rafflesiac]

We already know who the red and blue Sabers are.

[forumghost]

You wouldn't have red, blue, & green Saberfaces?

We already have those.

Red Saber= Nero
Blue Saber= Artoria

We only need Yellow and Green to create the Mighty Morphin Seiba Rangers.

[SpoonyViking]

If you're willing to be a bit flexible with the traditional colour schemes, you can have Okita as the White Saber and Alter as the Black Saber. We'd only need one more.

[Urameshi Yūsuke]

So, because I want to be doubly sure.

Can someone point towards the text or material that states how you can hurt a servant?

More to the point, do you need magical energy or mystery

[ItsaRandomUsername]

So, because I want to be doubly sure.

Can someone point towards the text or material that states how you can hurt a servant?

More to the point, do you need magical energy or mystery

Fate, Day 10, Strategy Meeting

"The only ones that can physically hurt the Servants are other Servants, heroic spirits like them. So in other words, if a Servant was using it, even a paper knife could hurt Saber."

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2065/

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Plus, Rin was able to take one of Berserker's lives using gems with a decade's-worth of stored magic energy, so that's not exactly steeped in mystery, so yeah, it's gotta do with magic.

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But stuff that's pretty old--mysterious--and more Noble Phantasm-like is better for the job, since magic energy alone can't do the job unless you're a prana engine like Aoko is (see: Aoko overwhelming Flat Snark using energy instead of out-concepting it or overtaking its mystery w/greater mystery). Also, see Bazz being a tradition carrier and having Fragarach.

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So, you need magic to even touch the magical stuff, but, usually, mystery to do the heavy lifting, so to speak.

[Urameshi Yūsuke]

Fate, Day 10, Strategy Meeting

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%2065/

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Plus, Rin was able to take one of Berserker's lives using gems with a decade's-worth of stored magic energy, so that's not exactly steeped in mystery, so yeah, it's gotta do with magic.

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But stuff that's pretty old--mysterious--and more Noble Phantasm-like is better for the job, since magic energy alone can't do the job unless you're a prana engine like Aoko is (see: Aoko overwhelming Flat Snark using energy instead of out-concepting it or overtaking its mystery w/greater mystery). Also, see Bazz being a tradition carrier and having Fragarach.

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So, you need magic to even touch the magical stuff, but, usually, mystery to do the heavy lifting, so to speak.

Yeah I had that text in mind, but I was sorta wondering if there was other text in a material or something along those lines.

And I think I should have been more clear.

To hurt a servant in their spirit form you need magical energy right?

And to hurt a servant in their physical form you can use either magic, though you'll need a lot of it, or use a weapon that has a lot of mystery to it.

[asterism42]

Servants are bascly ghosts, after all