Anyone remember where Magic Resistance is defined to be a class skill for Saber, Archer, Lancer, and, apparently, Rider? I found one thing for Archers from Gilgamesh's CMIII profile, but I want to say that there was something mentioned in SN about this when they were talking about the older HGW.
Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart
Because it's under Class Skills in FSN?
Why is she called Pseudo God right after being called a divine spirit? Is this a translation error?
Yeah, but not all the skills listed under Class Skills are skills granted by the container. For example, any Servant that isn't a class from Saber, Archer, Lancer, and Rider shouldn't have Magic Resistance if it's a class-only skill, yet that isn't the case.
Found the video You linked in the FGO Mats thread that listed the ones that are explicitly granted by the container. Still weird that Rider doesn't grant Riding, which implies that Riding, or one of its derivatives, is a prerequisite to qualify for the class.
If the argument is that they didn't want to clutter things up in the table, then why is Archer listed as having Independent Action instead of being listed under Magic Resistance with Saber, Lancer, and Rider?
Last edited by Trubo; June 25th, 2019 at 01:45 PM.
In Fate/Stay Night?
Absent the original text I’m gonna say yeah they just royally botched translating 擬神化 which is a punny combination of deification and anthropomorphization.
Don't think SN has any specific examples that fit the thing I'm looking for. Closest would be Saber Alter not having Riding, but that doesn't really tell us much of why it's sealed, nor if it's because the class is supposed to grant Riding or not.
Mostly FGO, but some other sources too, lots of examples of weird cases:
- From the Saber class: Eli Eli (Brave), Shiki (Saber), Musashi, and Benienma lacking the Riding skill, assuming it's a skill granted by the class container. Siegfried not having Magic Resistance is something about Armor of Fafnir.
- From the Lancer class: Tamamo (Lancer) not having Magic Resistance not inline with various sources saying that she should have it because Lancer
- From the Archer class: Billy lacking Magic Resistance, with much the same reason as Okita's as to why Okita's is so low. Altera the Sun(ta) not having Independent Action.
- From the Rider class: Kintoki (Rider) and Red Hare lacking Magic Resistance.
- From the Caster class: Mozart, Shakespeare, Cu, Nursery Rhyme, Iris, Midrash, Sieg, Miyu, Sanzang, Illya, Nightless, and Anastasia lacking Item Creation, Babbage for not having Territory Creation
- From the Assassin class: Mata Hari not having Presence Concealment, though I think Espionage is supposed to be some degraded version.
I reckon that you can find the class skills listed in Fate/complete material, since it was for the longest the go-to source for how the Holy Grail War and Servant system worked.
As for Servants that lack the class skills of their class... That's nothing new, and in fact is as old as the FSN visual novel, as Assassin (the "fake" one, not True Assassin) had a null rank in Presence Concealment (thus making it useless), but had a personal skill that largely simulated the effect of Presence Concealment proper. Anomalies can and do exist. Caster Gilgamesh, for example, has Item Creation (False) instead of the realItem Creation class skill for Casters, because he can't actually create magical items but has practically an infinite variety of such items in his vault, so the ultimate result is the same.
My guess is that some class skills are derived from the Servant's abilities in life and are considered prerequisites for qualifying for the class (e.g. Riding and Item Creation), while others are added on to the Servant even if they did not exhibit such abilities in life (e.g. Anti-Magic).
Last edited by MarqFJA87; June 25th, 2019 at 02:52 PM.
I guess a better way to word it is this: Are Class Skills things granted by the container, things that are typical for members of that class, or something else? Cause there are plenty of sources that say things like Magic Resistance are granted to Saber, Archer, Lancer, and Rider because of their class, yet some members of those classes either lack the skill or have the skill sealed for some reason.
for Siegfried it gets sealed by grail bias
Sasaki does have Presence Concealmente, but it's at a low Rank - D, maybe?
Sasaki is weird, he has it but not quite as a true Assassin Class Ability.
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And looking up where it came from I just gotta say wow maybe don’t reference tmdict’s EXTRA entries like ever again lol
CM3 (Class Skills section) lists the 'class skills' as Magic Resistance, Riding, Independent Action, Presence Concealment, Territory Creation, Item Creation, and Mad Enhancement.
At the same time, we have an example of one of these skills being written down as a Personal Skill (Medusa's Independent Action) in FSN. So, these skills won't simply be noted down as 'class skills' regardless of if you're in their corresponding class or not. Flipping that around, it means that the ones noted as Class Skills in the FSN profiles are the class skills for those containers.
As an example, if Archer didn't have a class skill of Magic Resistance, then reasonably speaking, EMIYA and Gil's Magic Resistance would have been listed as a personal skill, like Medusa's Independent Action was.
I'm also assuming we're ignoring the GO class skill/personal skill : gameplay passive/gameplay active distinction here.
That's fine and all, but look at Billy's Materials entry. Even if we ignore the Magic Resistance section, it lists Riding as a Class Skill rather than a Personal Skill. This is weird since Riding is not noted to be a Class Skill from the SN Archers.
Edit:And Extella materials listing Nero's Riding as a Personal Skill rather than a Class Skill. Link for reference. Also removed direct images because of size.No, that's a different skill that I got too lazy and just saw the B rank and figured it was Riding. Nero's entry doesn't even have her as having Riding, isn't that sad? Meanwhile Karna has his Riding as a Class Skill, so who knows?
May as well post a link for the Extella materials for anyone interested.
Last edited by Trubo; June 25th, 2019 at 05:35 PM.
Could it have been a typo or misprint of some sort?
Well, like I said, my point's predicated on not looking at the GO side of things, since GO organizes things differently.
Medusa's Independent Action is listed as a Personal Skill in FSN but a Class Skill in her GO Materials. That's because of how GO organizes class skills vs personal skills, both in-game and in their materials, where anything that's a 'class skill' ingame is also written as a class skill on their materials.
If we're speaking in terms of GO, then yes, all of the above class skills can be considered 'class skills' regardless of what class you're in. If we're speaking in terms of pre-GO organization, it's different, like I said earlier. The most apparent example there is the change in how Medusa's Independent Action's represented.
It's "pick an organizational style you like", in the end.
As LeadDemon say, FGO mats just organize things differently so that FGO gamers don't get confused when reading FGO mats and is wondering "why is divinity a personal skill instead of a class skill like in the game?" Furthermore, the first two books were notorious for using pre-strengthened and post-strengthened NP ranks contrary to what was presented in the FGO profiles (e.g. Luminosite Eternelle, Gae Dearg/Buidhe, Caladbolg, Hamesh Avaim, and so forth; especially the former two since their "official" ranks were already revealed in prior works).
Alright, have a look at Extra materials then. Nero, Drake, Gilgamesh, Karna. Riding is missing from Nero and Drake, but Karna has it as a Class Skill. Magic Resistance is missing from Gilgamesh.
Using the argument about Medusa in SN, Karna should have it listed as a Personal Skill, not a Class Skill.
Shit be weird
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