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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

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    Lightning Cyan Spike Optimus's Avatar
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    Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

    This thread was originally made in the old Beast's Lair to ask anything related to the Type-Moon Works, and so does this one.

    Useful resources, which you should consult before posting:
    TMDict, a compilation of Nasuverse dictionary entries.
    Complete Material PBWorks, containing much of the data from Complete Material III, and some miscellaneous other Q&As and translations.
    Our own Translation forum.
    Tsukikan's translated sets of interviews.
    Chaldeum, for Grand Order translations we can actually vouch for instead of whatever random crap you turned up in the depths of OBD.

    Supplementary materials to these, from many and varied BL discussions, have been collated in a Google Document. You might end up fruitlessly resurrecting an old and solved debate if you ignore it too.

    Beast's Lair: Useful Notes
    (Lightweight | PDF)
    Updated 17/05/15


    If you've got a question that relates to fanfiction, and not canon material, bring it over here: http://forums.nrvnqsr.com/forumdisplay.php/5-Fanfics

    "I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THESE MOTHERFUCKING FANFICS IN THIS MOTHERFUCKING THREAD!" - LeopardBear, once an esteemed moderator
    Last edited by Seika; June 14th, 2015 at 06:08 PM.

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    TATARI Heiress ItsaRandomUsername's Avatar
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    A n00b question:

    How do you make groups?

    Edit: NEvermind.
    Last edited by ItsaRandomUsername; March 14th, 2011 at 02:04 PM.

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    Forumite #42 Hyarion's Avatar
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    Community dropdown > Groups (first option) > Create Group button.

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    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    If you're in the Fate/Heaven's Gate RP, don't read the question (in white)

    What would happen if someone took Shinji's book/Command Seal? I know Zouken could burn it, but could you, as the servant's new master, command it to break contract and re-contract with you? Can servants even do that? And would Zouken even know that someone took the book unless Shinji told him?

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    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    Purplehead fried the book in HF right? So at the very least, she has veto power as rider's true master

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    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    But do either Sakura or Zouken know that someone else has the book, or do they need to find out on their own?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeopardBear View Post
    If you're in the Fate/Heaven's Gate RP, don't read the question (in white)

    What would happen if someone took Shinji's book/Command Seal? I know Zouken could burn it, but could you, as the servant's new master, command it to break contract and re-contract with you? Can servants even do that? And would Zouken even know that someone took the book unless Shinji told him?
    I know I'm in the RP, but I will have to answer this anyway.

    The book burns when Sakura orders it to, and seemingly when Shinji does. Further, it lacks enough force to make Rider agree to break the contract with Sakura and contract with you instead, and in any case a servant can't do that without the agreement of the original master, IIRC.

    As for knowing about the book, that's not clear. It's possible that, if you hide it from Zouken and Sakura, you could retain the servant, and if you're friendly enough with Sakura you could even get her to agree to allow you to remain as the substitute master.

    But, anyway, I'd like to say one thing here. Remember that you're not the only one playing and trying to make plans. Assuming there will even be a book is a very dangerous assumption indeed.

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    The Rose of Autumn Brynhilde's Avatar
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    A question that I've been wondering for a while: Are Magic Crests visible when they aren't being used?

    I never got that point very clear... I don't recall Rin's Tosaka Crests to be visible when she's not using magecraft.

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    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    No. Pretty sure they aren't.

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    No, they're not.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Counterguardian's Avatar
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    So what happens to that leyline-bumping bomb that Kiritsugu set after the Fourth Heaven's Feel?

    I always thought that it was the trigger for the conflict that caused Waver to dismantle the Greater Grail.



    Oh and as an aside, is the forum's color scheme locked in for good? It's fairly tough on the eyes.
    Last edited by Counterguardian; March 15th, 2011 at 12:06 AM.

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    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    No, you can change it down at the bottom left on the blue bar. Change it from black to default style.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Counterguardian's Avatar
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    The default scheme isn't much better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Counterguardian View Post
    So what happens to that leyline-bumping bomb that Kiritsugu set after the Fourth Heaven's Feel?
    Most likely it blows up in twenty or thirty years time killing anyone unfortunate enough to be in the vicinity at the time....

    I always thought that it was the trigger for the conflict that caused Waver to dismantle the Greater Grail.
    Unlikely. I think that the bomb is set to go off some time later, and further I doubt Kiritsugu would have made the mistake of setting his bombs so as to leave the Great Grail in a salvageable state after he'd blown it up.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Counterguardian's Avatar
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    It could have suffered a case of premature detonation.

    /shrug.

    But seriously, wasn't the mechanism behind the bomb one that gathers naturally occurring prana from the surrounding area (so it'll go off after collecting 40 years' worth of natural prana)? The fact that the Fifth Heaven's Feel started thirty years early might mean that the extra prana the Greater Grail pumps out may accelerate the "clock" on the bomb.

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    Blue Gunner RoadBuster's Avatar
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    I am wondering if there is a point that Fame overtakes Age (Mystery) as far as the potential that a concept has. We all know that Goldy has the originals to everything, but why does that automatically trump them? Does an Original Sling trump David's, despite his having fame the world over even today?

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    Knowing Nasu... David's Sling is the Original Sling? Someone just plundered it from the GoB?
    Better question would be, why is a weapon stronger when it's "younger" since the one's Gil uses are all closer to their point of Origin, if age makes an item stronger? Shouldn't all of the items in GoB be weaker, since they are neither famous in that form, nor have they accumulated Mystery through great age?

  18. #18
    More than a feeling... Spooky's Avatar
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    Maybe it's something similar to Shirou's tracing. Since it's not the original item, it loses a rank...

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Counterguardian's Avatar
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    My take on this is that mystery and age are conflicting sides of a Noble Phantasm's power.

    When a Noble Phantasm is first created, it is at the peak of its power as it has not aged or changed from its purpose - however it's "origin" (as defined in the Rakkyo sense) may be a different entity altogether. For example Gungnir may have been created to "curse" but its origin was "reversal".

    However as time passes, it loses this original power but at the same time gains mystery, which can be seen as movement towards the Phantasm's origin in the same way Araya started off as a human but moved towards his origin of Quiescence with time - in his case losing the original function of a "human" and moving towards the "origin". However, few Noble Phantasms actually stay around long enough to complete this evolution, and thus end up weaker than their original forms while Gae Bolg can be seen as one that has completed its evolution (and hence Archer's statement that it was more powerful than the original).

    If we were to use a graphical approach, the power vs. time graph of a Noble Phantasm would be a curve with two peaks which may or may not be equal, with the first peak at its creation (because it is close to its original function) and another one as its evolution finishes (as it is close to its final function).


    This may also explain the strength of Saber's Excalibur, as it was directly fashioned by the fairies and put in the world in her time - which means that it is very close to its concept of creation, while other Noble Phantasms have been floating around already and are thus weaker. Also, it may be a reason why Saber wanted Bedivere to return the sword to the Lady in the Lake, to remove it from the World and prevent Excalibur from entering the weaker intermediate stage. That or the faeries are really good at synchronizing their original designs with an objects "origin".
    Last edited by Counterguardian; March 15th, 2011 at 02:35 AM.

  20. #20
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Twelveseal's Avatar
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    @CG: Nice! I hadn't thought of it like that. It makes sense, since everything in the setting has an Origin.

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