Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[You]

Aside from Kerry and Emiya? and the SN summon chant, has the ring of deterence term or however you want to call 抑止の輪 shown up anywhere

大河「ムーンセルのサーヴァントは抑止の輪から呼び出されたものじゃなくて、NPCと同じように再現されたコピーという認識は正しいのか しら？」
桜「はい、その通り正しいです。より正確に言うと、ムーンセルが記録している人類史からの完全再現となりま す。ただし、この人類史は多元的に英霊の座と繋がっているので、一概にコピーとは言えません。要するに、ム ーンセルも自分で人類史を作っている認識なのですが、その人類史はそもそも英霊の座とまったく同じものなの で、同一存在として多元的には重なり合っている、みたいな感じです」
大河「ついでに言うと、抑止の輪はまた別ね。アーチャーさんは抑止の輪側の英霊だけど、エクストラでのアーチャーさんは英霊の座から呼び出されたために、今回は抑止力の奴隷にな っていないっていうわけ」
キャスター「なるほど、Fate本編と若干差異があるのもその塩梅ってなわけですね」


I think this is the only other reference

[neveron]

What about cleaning?

is this a pun

[Lily Emilio]

Oh so if EMIYA has an super np that has the concept of beating everything, he would still be low level? I just want to know how asinine your classification system is.

Yes. It's like the statements about Tamamo being a high level divine spirit class servant and Karna even sensed her overflowing divinity, saying she's a divine spirit beyond him when most of the time as a servant she won't even have a good chance against the likes of Emiya. Fame, legend and origin matters alot in servant level ranking but doesn't mean everything in actual match ups.

[RoydGolden]

Yes. It's like the statements about Tamamo being a high level divine spirit class servant and Karna even sensed her overflowing divinity, saying she's a divine spirit beyond him when most of the time as a servant she won't even have a good chance against the likes of Emiya. Fame, legend and origin matters alot in servant level ranking but doesn't mean everything in actual match ups.

I think Asunder was talking about his tier in an actual fight though, not metaphysically.

[Canon]

I think this is the only other reference

Right, I remembered there was smth from Extra side too the last time this came up, but I guess still no clarification yet

Thanks

[King_of_None]

Spoiler:

So how was it that King Gil was able to come back as an Archer during the Tiamat battle in Babylon?

[34]

Spoiler:

So how was it that King Gil was able to come back as an Archer during the Tiamat battle in Babylon?

Spoiler:

He summoned himself, using himself as the catalyst, he is a version that has recently ascended into a Heroic Spirit in the singularity.

[You]

Spoiler:

He summoned himself, using himself as the catalyst, he is a version that has recently ascended into a Heroic Spirit in the singularity.

definitely not.

it's a bit ambiguous exactly what he did
but he fell into the abyss, lost his body, but tried really hard.
Once he went into the underworld looking for the herb and that was during his heyday.
So he is able to sneakily temporarily able to assume that form again.

＠ギルガメッシュ
なに、死の淵にいたのでな。[r]少しばかり無茶を通したまでのこと。
[k]

＠ギルガメッシュ
かつて冥界を下り深淵に落ち、霊草を求めた時の姿[line 3][r]即ち、[#我:オレ]の全盛期。
[k]

＠ギルガメッシュ
もう体が無かったのでな。エレシュキガルめの目を盗んで、一時のみ見せてやったのだ。
[k]

＠ギルガメッシュ
このウルクにまで来て英雄王の姿を一度も[r]見ていないなどと、不幸にも程があろう？
[k]

[Cruor]

Calling Emiya top tier in anything aside from cooking and defenseless anus exploration is quite generous

is he top tier in reality marble deployment :thinking:

[castor212]

after long long discussion i suppose what asunder wants to say is that if you can contend with high level guys, youre high level

and i suppose for him emiya is kinda shit parameter + p gud technique + batman methodology = able to fight high level servant, which is true

but simply calling emiya high level servant without this explanation gives a really wrong impression which makes this convo goes on and on and on

plus i think some trauma with fanfics plays heavily here

[Marmadillo]

About "top servants" in Extella. Is that a new term or has it come up before somewhere?

[Altaris]

It basically means servants that Moon Cell summon for its purpose.

And i don't think it has come up before

[Daiki]

Given how Gil openly mocks Ruler for being shit in spite of being one of them, I wouldn't say that description fits.

Afaik, it's the first time the term appears.

[Leftovers]

Nasu called Alexander a Top Servant in some diary entry during early GO.

[Daiki]

There you go then.

[yokushi]

In FGO they use Top-class Servant. In the Mats, Top Servant is also mentioned.

It's basically a way to refer to very strong Servants like 大英雄.

[Laserman]

I don't think Ruler should be included then. Her being called a "Top Servant" in Extella, confused me. From what I know, she might have good stats but her one NP is defensive and the other kills herself. It's not that she isn't strong, but to be in the same category as Iskandar and Gilgamesh...

[castor212]

i think its because that her defense is superb

like, there are top servants who has superb offense used to assault MoonCell enemy, and there are top servants who has superb defense to protect MoonCell

maybe

[Laserman]

That makes sense.

[Hawkeye]

Basically, from what I can tell, yeah, A servant's abilities, as should be obvious at this point, aren't ranked solely on their offensive capacity. Hell, the key features that make most of the top-tier servants amazing isn't that they cause so much damage, but that they're nearly untouchable in battle.

Heracles - God Hand basically made him the favourite for the Fifth Grail War.
Siegfried - Was the Black Faction's defensive vanguard cause of Armour of Fafnir.
Karna & Achilles - Were the Red Faction's aces cause they're basically invincible in most circumstances.

Not to say these four aren't strong besides, of course they are, but the key feature that lead to their strategic value was that harming them borders on tedious for most servants. So saying Jeanne doesn't qualify as a top servant cause her Phantasm is a defence that basically screws everything that attacks her, is kind of odd.