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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #143581
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    This is still very much canon, and directly refers to that bit, so.
    Hm. That feels like a stretch, to be honest.
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot)
    - A duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) (Lemon) - Shirou and Shinji finally acknowledge their feelings.
    He Was a Good King (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A short exploration of Beowulf's character as a hero and a king.
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (a Fate/Stay Night one-shot) - A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan in the distant past.

  2. #143582
    the rage of a thousand white hot blinding suns of hateful fury Ratman's Avatar
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    In the context of what Mikuzume noted about Kiara, the rest of that is pretty interesting as well.

    They are as an abyss (淵, fuchi?) that lies within arm's reach, yet decisively beyond comprehension.

    Distinct from those demons from Stay Night, which exist only as imitations, the real thing -- Enfleshed Demons (受肉した悪魔, juniku-shita akuma?, lit. "Incarnated Demon") are that with which humans are incapable of competing 太刀打ちできない (tachi-uchi-dekinai, lit. "incapable of crossing swords"?).

    (※ There is in record only a single instance in which an Enfleshed Demon was forced to disperse (退散, taisan?, lit. "disperse / retreat"), but that's a different story.)

    In general, demons are existences that take possession, utilizing the corpus of a human to incarnate (受肉, juniku) and take action, but in the event that the psyche (精神, seishin?) of the human host (苗床になる人間, naedoko ni naru ningen?, lit. "the human that becomes a seed-bed") cannot withstand the strain, it is commonplace for self-annihilation (自壊, jikai?) of the host to occur, dispersing the essence of the demon into the vicinity.

    There exist also humans who by way of their own acts (業, ?, lit. "sins; worldly preoccupations / fixations / absorptions; karma") are subsumed unto the category of Demons as a result of losing their humanity; but these creatures that are said to have become Fiends (魔人, Majin?) cannot be considered True Demons.

    In the world of Extra -- whether by way of Demonic possession, or in the circumstance that one's own actions bring about a transformation -- the phenomenon whereby a True Demon is birthed unto the world has, as of present day in 2030, not been brought successful fruition even once.

    Though the classifications of "Demons" and "Fiends" do exist, their manner of existence is in essence indistinguishable from that of a higher-order lifeform (高次元生命体, kou-jigen seimeitai?, lit. "higher-dimension lifeform") that inhabits a different sphere of civilization (異なる文明圏, koto-naru bunmei-ken?) upon a different planet (異なる惑星, koto-naru wakusei?).

    In sum, said existences can, per the recognition of the Universe of Awareness (認識宇宙, ninshiki-uchuu?, lit. "the universe derived of observation / perception"), no longer be discerned as "human."

    Their existences would approximate to that of the cosmic horrors (邪神, jashin?, lit. "evil god") of a certain fictitious Mythos popular in the 20th century.

    In the True Route of CCC, a certain individual that has undergone transmigration did indeed manage to reach this realm, but owing to a slight mistake, they were capsized from the Seat of Divinity (神の座, kami no za?).
    Since it suggests that Kiara was becoming the opposite of God instead. Which is what anyone with a speck of common sense should have thought it looked like.

    If anything, this callback fills me with confidence in Kinoko having a better overall idea of what he's doing with cosmology than is usually thought, but picking and choosing bits he needs to tell a story.
    Last edited by Ratman; Yesterday at 02:13 PM.

  3. #143583
    kiara has nothing to do with capital g God, falling from the seat of god is how the material describes her failing to become a true demon

    - - - Updated - - -

    also we don't use fallaspeak in this house, use text sources like ancient GD rules demand
    Fanfiction, on occasion.

    The Blue-Blooded League
    When the Queen's away, the pawns will play. A Lord El-Melloi II Case File.

    /Ep.in lost dream.
    Decoration Disorder Disconnection. Ishizue Arika and Mato Touma. An episode from a hypothetical future.

    Pseudepigrapha
    Snapshots from the world on the eve of the Third Crusade. A Tuitio Mysterii et Obsequium Reliquiarium prequel.

  4. #143584
    the rage of a thousand white hot blinding suns of hateful fury Ratman's Avatar
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    That's the thing. They're opposite concepts outright.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizukume View Post
    As for the the concept of THE G.O.D being mentioned, we already knew from CCC that it is a state of one becoming omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. Kiara, an evil bodhisattva (not even a Buddha yet) reached that level, yet because she is the reverse of what "God" is, Tamamo told her to get the fuck out of that seat as it's insulting. It is funny that no matter what you try to do to downplay the fox, she is the one who actually knew the most about the nature of G.O.D than your wild theories. Whether she knew it because she is that level, or she just knew too much thanks to her ability to know all things, is a different matter.
    So no only does it make no sense at all that this is a thing that happens, but it's very strange that the game would choose to make this sort of a callback when it is not formally a part of its cosmology and would screw with a bunch of things if it did. Since Tamamo might be talking about one bit of that description in DDD, but certainly not the rest.

  5. #143585
    also also divine spirits that lose their worship become elementals - if the planet croaks it they should too
    Fanfiction, on occasion.

    The Blue-Blooded League
    When the Queen's away, the pawns will play. A Lord El-Melloi II Case File.

    /Ep.in lost dream.
    Decoration Disorder Disconnection. Ishizue Arika and Mato Touma. An episode from a hypothetical future.

    Pseudepigrapha
    Snapshots from the world on the eve of the Third Crusade. A Tuitio Mysterii et Obsequium Reliquiarium prequel.

  6. #143586
    the rage of a thousand white hot blinding suns of hateful fury Ratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    also we don't use fallaspeak in this house, use text sources like ancient GD rules demand
    See I thought you'd lynch me for taking it from TM wiki, so this sort of a line is still good

  7. #143587
    i try to avoid unnecessary aneurysms trying to parse a quote that already exists in much clearer form

    Quote Originally Posted by peanuts View Post
    True Demon

    Even in the Extra world, the concept of the demon is treated as the greatest obstacle to mankind.
    If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, the demon is a being of human knowledge and powerlessness.
    It is the reachable but utterly incomprehensible abyss.
    In stay night, the only demons are fakes, and the real deal, the incarnated demon is considered to be unmatchable by human beings.
    (There's only one record of an incarnated demon being dispelled, but that's another story).
    A demon is said to possess the human soul, and it will try to incarnate in the human body, but usually the mind of the human it is growing from is unable to take it and it ends up destroying itself while spreading its power in its surroundings.
    Among these, there are people who of their own doing cease being human and end up being categorized as demons, but this is called demonic transformation (I really have no idea how to render this) so they are not true demons.
    Whether it's possession or transformation of one's doing, there has yet to be one successful case of a phenomenon that has created a true demon as of 2030.
    The names demons, demonic incarnation are used but they are no different than higher dimensional beings from a different civilization, different planet.
    After all, they've ceased being "people" in our percieved universe.
    Their nature is close to the evil gods of a certain fictional mythology popular in the 20th century.
    A certain person reborn in the true route of CCC, despite reaching this region, fell from the seat of God because of a trivial mistake.
    Fanfiction, on occasion.

    The Blue-Blooded League
    When the Queen's away, the pawns will play. A Lord El-Melloi II Case File.

    /Ep.in lost dream.
    Decoration Disorder Disconnection. Ishizue Arika and Mato Touma. An episode from a hypothetical future.

    Pseudepigrapha
    Snapshots from the world on the eve of the Third Crusade. A Tuitio Mysterii et Obsequium Reliquiarium prequel.

  8. #143588
    赤き月の儀式 Mizukume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    That's the thing. They're opposite concepts outright.



    So no only does it make no sense at all that this is a thing that happens, but it's very strange that the game would choose to make this sort of a callback when it is not formally a part of its cosmology and would screw with a bunch of things if it did. Since Tamamo might be talking about one bit of that description in DDD, but certainly not the rest.
    FWIW this is what I'm referring to:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamamo, CCC, vs Kiara
    神とは超越者であると同時に与えるモノ。与えられることだけを目的とした貴女に、神の座は不相応。即刻、退 去して頂きます!
    "God is a transcended one who at the same time one who gives. For you who only knows to be given, the seat of god is not for you. Leave it at once!"

    She says this line at the start of the battle with Kiara. It's pretty easy to miss if you can't listen to Japanese well. Took me several times to transcribe the whole thing only to find out there is a JP wiki already did the job for me.

    The reason why it caught my attention was because there were a lot of times Tamamo referred to gods as part of a system, basically the gods who act as nature representatives are part of a system. However here she seems to be talking about a transcended being, someone who would not need to be given anything but just give out things. That sounds like the idea of God in Christianity, especially the one who gives part ontop of transcendence.


    "まおーさま!これはリリィの精いっぱいの応援です!!!"

  9. #143589
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six madarra's Avatar
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    So Kiaras existance clashing with a god that gives was hinted at all the way back in CCC

  10. #143590
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    the counter force of alaya is the God of monotheism, who exists in humanity's future light cone, assembling himself acausally from out of the substance of human history. this is why jeanne can hear him
    I read that book, he came out of nowhere then made himself always exist, then outlawed time travel so nobody could mess with his paradox and unmake him right
    It had some cool spaceship fights

  11. #143591
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    If you're referring to the book I think you are (Singularity Sky by Charles Stross) then I have to say I don't really remember the spaceship fights but the Festival were funny as shit
    しょう
    よう
    じゃく


  12. #143592
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Well a fight scene in a spaceship I mean

    - - - Updated - - -

    But yeah that’s the one

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