I would like to point out that this is not a reasonable excuse for anything.Originally Posted by TheInfamousMan
I would like to point out that this is not a reasonable excuse for anything.
Tohsaka & Kotomine Law, LLP takes place over a long time frame. Saber sees Shirou pretty frequently when his firm keeps suing her company.
Fate/Zero idea
This is inspired by Enkidu's summoning in Fate/strange fake.
Ryuunosuke performed his "demon" summoning by abducting and killing a family with magic potential; in this timeline he used a different family: Shirou's. Due to Shirou's own latent circuits and his close connection to the blood used in the summoning ritual, the Grail perceives him as the rightful master, and lacking any form of reagent it chooses the Heroic Spirit most suited to him. Needless to say, EMIYA is less than thrilled.
Well, this should be interesting, if somewhat depressing. Poor Shirou just lost his parents, and prolly got hurt himself. Traumatized and emotionally vulnerable, he'd probably cling to his 'savior' with a terrified fervency, as he has no idea why he's suddenly involved in a death-match between an assortment of killers, sociopaths, etc.
EMIYA tries to remain distant to his younger self, though at such a young age and understanding all too well how damaged Shirou is by such a horrific event, he can't help but sympathize with the poor, scared, and now homeless boy.
Should be interesting when team Kiritsugu rolls in to find them. Would Kerry want to eliminate Shirou, or rescue him? How would Archer react to seeing his father again?
My Job Description
Bah, EMIYA would just up and kill chibi Shirou. You know, since that's the entire reason that he chose to participate in the war to begin with.
I don't think so. This is Shirou before the fire - i.e. without the distortion that produced EMIYA. I don't think he'd just up and kill chibi Shirou, any more than he does so in Fate or HF.
Yeah, it was pretty specific that it had to be Shirou on the exact same path that led to the creation of EMIYA himself. It was about creating the biggest paradox possible.
Last edited by meevanhelot; July 14th, 2013 at 03:25 AM.
I don't think that'd be so simple an answer, considering he gives up on that in Fate and HF. UBW points out that he's pretty sure even killing himself won't actually work and even in that route he starts out just trying to convince younger him to give up on the goal. If he comes across himself before he was actually the self he knows, I don't think he'd just go, "Eh," stab.
Goddamn snipers.
Localizationing stuff
He doesn't do it in Fate because he spends half the Route injured and unable to get past Saber, and in HF he's too busy with Angra Mainyu.
In this scenerio, he's just been offered his last ditch attempt to get out of his own personal hell on a fucking silver platter. Why wouldn't he take it?
Probably cause it hasn't happened yet and doing so too early would be useless, and now that he's there in the first place the chance has already gone.
Because the core events that facilitated Shirou's gradual evolution into the man called Archer (ie: The fire and Kiritsugu's adoption), have yet to happen, and it's wholly in Archer's hands to prevent them entirely. Even if he still ascribes to the fool's hope that a paradox would somehow negate his existence, ensuring that the boy named Shirou doesn't go through the exact same life-defining experience as him is a better bet than outright shanking him. Remember, the Shirou before and after the fire are (well, we assume them to be) so fundamentally different they are almost different people.
well, not that different really, it's just that he has yet to copy Kiritsugu's ideals.
And even then, there's still chance he won't be a magical hero. If Kerry held firmly to not teaching him anything, he would have save people the mundane way and not get the attention of CT.
Last edited by Tiresias; July 14th, 2013 at 04:36 AM.
You can't make an omelet without breaking a few Tohsaka. -Fafnir
Naruto is just a shitty little boy taking up space that would be otherwise taken up by competent, otaku-ego-crushing badasses. -Five_X
I anticipate the day when the HA translation comes out and everyone realizes that Caren is the least sexually dominant character in the universe. -Kotonoha
Gun control programs are actually a mage-financed government plot to make mankind start generating hero units again. -McJon
It's true that we don't really know the details of Shirou's life and personality before the fire, other than him being an overall ordinary boy. However, consider the oft-used analogy of a clean slate that, combined with the survivor's guilt, enabled him to wholeheartedly embrace the ideals he saw in Kiritsugu. It's a reach to say that the person who had to endure such extreme circumstances to adopt a mindset that is, good or bad, outside of the human norm could have reached the same "result" without the same drastic "eradication of identity/the self", not to mention exposure to Kiritsugu's ideals.
In short and in regards to the original fic idea, I think that for the purposes of Archer's wish for an end to his existence, the paradox of a Shirou that is not "Emiya" Shirou is more feasible than killing the boy who, if the disaster of the Fourth War's conclusion is prevented, is as ideologically similar to the Emiya Shirou of F/SN as a random guy in the street.
Last edited by Leftovers; July 14th, 2013 at 05:00 AM.
The guy left Rin to Kotomine and Shinji's mercies in the name of satisfying his suicidal vendetta. He teamed up with Caster, Ms. Bad New Bears, to pull it off. He Broke a Phantasm and flung it at Herc in the graveyard hoping to get a team wipe with Rin on the premises.
Archer strikes me as petty and vindictive enough to kill the kid and be done with it.
You're kidding me, right?
In Fate, Shirou left his house damn near every night while Saber was asleep, met up with Archer and then talked with him before going back to bed. Saber's good, but not that good.
I'm all for calling EMIYA an asshole, but even him isn't this much of a bastard. In F/SN, Shirou is well in the path of the hero and has accepted the posibility of death in the War. A child Shirou, on the other hand, is a terrified boy who has just lost all his family at the hands of a psychopath. Not to mention that at this point is completely imposible for Shirou to become EMIYA, so I don't think he would try to kill the poor child.
Because he still needs to cause the biggest paradox posible, and a child who isn't even Shirou Emiya yet (just Shirou something something) is almost not even a little paradox. He is a bastard, not a child murderer.
Nah, he warns Rin to get the fuck out of there, it's just that Shirou gets an even earlier warning so he can save Saber (he was just besides Rin, so I'm not sure if the BP would have even winded him). And to be fair, Shirou and Saber were fair game at that moment. I said it several times, but for all the talking he does about not having pride, he shows pride enough in a few things for me to suspect that he wouldn't try to kill a helpless child unless something really makes him do (and with that, I mean forcing him against his will)
Spoiler:
So which Indian mythological heroes would get Vimana?
Ravana, duh. (wait, where did this question come from?)
You can't make an omelet without breaking a few Tohsaka. -Fafnir
Naruto is just a shitty little boy taking up space that would be otherwise taken up by competent, otaku-ego-crushing badasses. -Five_X
I anticipate the day when the HA translation comes out and everyone realizes that Caren is the least sexually dominant character in the universe. -Kotonoha
Gun control programs are actually a mage-financed government plot to make mankind start generating hero units again. -McJon
I'm just being lazy and felt this thread was more appropriate than the Questions one.
Also wondering on the opinion of BL members who are knowledgeable about this.
Quick idea: Multiversal Servant Shirou Gambit Trainwreck
Archer isn't the only time-traveling version of Shirou in the 5th War.
A Magus Killer incarnation of Shirou appears in the 5th War as Assassin. Kiritsugu never grew out of his "Hero of Justice" phase in Assassin!Shirou's universe, and raised Shirou like a much more powerful Maiya. This version of Shirou ultimately won his universe's War, and wished to become Servant Assassin for one Kaleidoscope universe after another. He'd "fix" every Heaven's Feel throughout the multiverse, one at a time. Forever.
As it happens, though, Assassin!Shirou enjoys his job. He wants to convert Canon Shirou to his own peculiar brand of thinking, and starts getting suspicious about Rin's silver-haired Archer. The guy looks rather familiar...
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