Type-Moon Fanfic Idea Thread

[Wolf Paladin]

I think he meant that the Spear was there (in Lancer's hands) in the VN.

Yep that was the idea.
Lancer was close to Shirou and the circle and if it weren’t for Avalon coupled with Servant compatibility then the closest thing to a catalyst would have determined which Servant would be summoned. Plus it doesn’t have to be necessarily the spear itself. You could have Medb being summoned as a Saber using Caladbolg just because Cu himself was there and she sensed he was there.
Speaking of which here another one.

A no Avalon run for Shirou. Summons with affinity (most likely gets Siegfried). Let’s see how far he goes. And don’t forget the prior changes of a Shirou that doesn’t Avalon to help him when he uses magecraft.

[forumghost]

I mean I don't think that GB would work for any Saber servants we know though, so if that was his Catalyst he'd probably just have to roll the Gatcha rely on a compatibility summon.

[You]

If Shirou didn't have Avalon he'd just have died from the Gae Bolg to the heart.

[Historia]

If Shirou didn't have Avalon he'd just have died from the Gae Bolg to the heart.

Or the fire.

[RoydGolden]

If Shirou didn't have Avalon he'd just have died from the Gae Bolg to the heart.

Wait, I thought Avalon had no effect on Shirou after it was initially implanted in him. Wasn't it Rin's jewel that saved him after his heart was stabbed?

[Historia]

Without Avalon inside him he would've died instantly.

Same as when Kirei crushed Kiritsugu's heart.

[RoydGolden]

When he got shanked by Lancer on day 3? That was all Rin; Avalon didn't do anything for him besides change his origin into Sword until he summoned Saber.

Found it. This is the where I got the idea Avalon had no effect. I guess Raffles could've been just mistaken, but no one stepped in to correct him and he seems like a fairly respected user to me...

[You]

It's not too severe, but it's all over when the brain doesn't get any more blood.
No, basically, if his heart were pierced, he should have died instantly.

"…But it's amazing he isn't dead yet."
…Yes.
He's still breathing faintly as if to give his last scream.
But that will only last a few more seconds.
He can't heal his own wounds, and I don't have enough power to save him either.

Q: Before he summoned Saber, why did Shirou dream about the Excalibur? Was the Greater Grail contacting Shirou in order to select him as a Master?
A: During the preparations leading up to the Holy Grail War, when it was decided that Saber (Artoria) would be summoned, “All is a Distant Utopia -- Avalon” within Shirou reacted with his mana flow to cause the image of a “sword” to manifest in his subconscious.

Q: Archer's greatest defense is "Rho Aias", but if he were the same person as Shirou, shouldn't his greatest protection be "Avalon"? In the Rin route, Archer knew that the holy sword's sheath was inside Shirou, so wouldn't the Heroic Spirit form of the Shirou that "knew" that the sheath was merged with him be Archer?

A: Avalon’s power won't work if Saber's not connected to it. It's a different story during the Grail War, but all it does when Saber isn't around is make Shirou's magic attribute into "sword". Also, after the Grail War is taken apart, the line between him and her will be gone, so it's best to think that his image of "Avalon" also disappeared.

So we have Rin saying that by all means Shirou should have died. And lets face it, stab to heart.
Then we have Avalon shouldn't work if Saber isn't connected to it.
However we also have Avalon already stirring before Saber is summoned but it is fate that she'll be summoned. Therefore, there is a connection.

Most likely explanation to why Shirou didn't die instantly is Avalon

[RoydGolden]

So we have Rin saying that by all means Shirou should have died. And lets face it, stab to heart.
Then we have Avalon shouldn't work if Saber isn't connected to it.
However we also have Avalon already stirring before Saber is summoned but it is fate that she'll be summoned. Therefore, there is a connection.

Most likely explanation to why Shirou didn't die instantly is Avalon

Thanks You.

[Historia]

[Peanut-007]

Medea would be interesting since that leaves an Assassin free.

Why would the Emiyas just happen to have a random unaffiliated NP lying around?

Something something back up catalyst. I mean the Einzbern's just found Avalon the long lost sheath of King Arthur so I don't doubt they could get their hands on some spares. That or Taiga brought one in and he just tossed it into the back of the shed.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I don't doubt the Einzberns could get things either, but the question actually still remains, since that still doesn't follow at all. What are you backing up when you already summoned King Arthur? Why would ultra-fixated-on-killing-efficiency Kiritsugu take something nobody can use to Japan? Why would he keep such a dangerous thing just lying around after becoming not-ultra-fixated-on-killing and doesn't even want the magical side of stuff infringing on life anymore?

And as to his "its in there trying to kill him," yeah, it still is a case of Avalon > Gae Bolg, which is explicitly laid out, and if you take Avalon, then you don't even get to the point of Gae Bolg being relevant.

[RoydGolden]

I don't doubt the Einzberns could get things either, but the question actually still remains, since that still doesn't follow at all. What are you backing up when you already summoned King Arthur? Why would ultra-fixated-on-killing-efficiency Kiritsugu take something nobody can use to Japan? Why would he keep such a dangerous thing just lying around after becoming not-ultra-fixated-on-killing and doesn't even want the magical side of stuff infringing on life anymore?

And as to his "its in there trying to kill him," yeah, it still is a case of Avalon > Gae Bolg, which is explicitly laid out, and if you take Avalon, then you don't even get to the point of Gae Bolg being relevant.

Well, there's ways you could justify it if you didn't mind being a little silly. For instance, you could say that Taiga went on vacation to a foreign country and brought back a souvenir that (unbeknownst to both buyer and seller) turned out to belong to a real legendary hero. Honestly, the more interesting question is how Shirou would survive the great fire without Avalon in the first place.

[Historia]

Well, there's ways you could justify it if you didn't mind being a little silly. For instance, you could say that Taiga went on vacation to a foreign country and brought back a souvenir that (unbeknownst to both buyer and seller) turned out to belong to a real legendary hero. Honestly, the more interesting question is how Shirou would survive the great fire without Avalon in the first place.

Why do you keep putting Avalon in bold.

Anyway, he doesn't. He dies. The end.

[Wolf Paladin]

I don't doubt the Einzberns could get things either, but the question actually still remains, since that still doesn't follow at all. What are you backing up when you already summoned King Arthur? Why would ultra-fixated-on-killing-efficiency Kiritsugu take something nobody can use to Japan? Why would he keep such a dangerous thing just lying around after becoming not-ultra-fixated-on-killing and doesn't even want the magical side of stuff infringing on life anymore?

And as to his "its in there trying to kill him," yeah, it still is a case of Avalon > Gae Bolg, which is explicitly laid out, and if you take Avalon, then you don't even get to the point of Gae Bolg being relevant.

As I said I only meant it in the second option I have never said that Kiritsugu found and kept Gae bolg.
And you are right Avalon is superior to Gae bolg as a catalyst.
However don’t forget that compatibility also plays a role in summoning. Sure summoning a hero with a catayst is nice but if said hero has a compatibilty with you then it is better.
It one of the reasons why Kairi pulled Mordred out of all the members the Round table : she was the most compatible with him out of all the summonable heroes with his catalyst.
Having a catalyst helps but it isn’t a hundred percent guarantee unless the catlyst is strong.
Plus we don’t know how two strong catalysts would interfere with each other.

So in this case Shirou had around 95% chance of summoning Saber, 4% of summoning someone with the spear/Cu as catalyst, 0,9% of summoning out of affinity's alone and 0,1% chance of summoning someone else because of bad luck.
Keep in mind that I am being VERY generous towards the last two as their actual chance is even lower.
However VERY VERY unlikely doesn’t mean impossible.

[Peanut-007]

So in this case Shirou had around 95% chance of summoning Saber, 4% of summoning someone with the spear/Cu as catalyst, 0,9% of summoning out of affinity's alone and 0,1% chance of summoning someone else because of bad luck.
Keep in mind that I am being VERY generous towards the last two as their actual chance is even lower.
However VERY VERY unlikely doesn’t mean impossible.

Actually it was just a saber rate up banner so it was only .7% for Artoria. Seriously though that isn't how it works.

[Wolf Paladin]

Actually it was just a saber rate up banner so it was only .7% for Artoria. Seriously though that isn't how it works.

Yeah I think I phrased that wrong. I realized that I don’t have any backing for those numbers and they are very big approximations.
But basically what I wanted to say is that most of the time Shirou would summon Saber (or any of her variations) HOWEVER they are possibilites where Shirou doesn’t summon her. In said possibilities Shirou would most likely summon either someone he is compatible with or someone linked to Cu/Gae bolg.

However to avoid any further confusion I will ask this : in the case of two catalysts (A and B) can Catalyst A negate all possibilities that a Servant linked to catalyst B is summoned just because Catalyst A is stronger than Catalyst B ?

[eddyak]

At Slieve Fuad, Cu Chulainn came once again upon Medb's army and her allies. Lugaid (Lewy) taunted him to give him his spear. Cu Chulainn hurled the gae bolg, missing Lugaid but killing nine men. Lugaid used the gae bolg and cast it back at Cu Chulainn. The spear missed and killed Laeg, the hero charioteer. A satirist mocked him; Cu Chulainn again cast his spear, killing the satirist. Erc, king of Ireland, then used the gae bolg, mortally wounded Cu Chulainn's favourite horse. Cu Chulainn again killed another satirist who taunted him. Lugaid hurled the gae bolg back at the hero. The gae bolg disembowelled the hero.

I can't help but laugh at the thought that there were once really sarcastic The Onion writers, who strolled around on the battlefield, taking the piss out of anybody who failed to kill someone else, and if their articles were scathing enough, the warriors would have to chase them down and kill them.

[Dullahan]

well, you know, back in the day, right, you can't call it a proper battle unless you've got a skald or two hanging around to make sure everyone's heroic deeds are recorded

[SpoonyViking]

Or you were a skald yourself.