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Thread: Fate/phoenix burning, an Open Idea

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    後継者 Successor Prince Charon's Avatar
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    Fate/phoenix burning, an Open Idea

    Imagine a Shirou who was healed without Avalon, and whose Origin is Fire, which is most likely his element, as well. He still develops a Reality Marble, but it looks like an eternal conflagration. The Great Fire of Fuyuki still burns in his soul

    He was saved from the Great Fire by a minor magus, a mere formalcraft user with less than twenty magic circuits. The one who saved him nearly exhausted himself keeping the boy alive long enough to reach a hospital, but it was enough. Shirou was saved, and the person who saved him, adopted him.

    I've been considering the idea that the person who saved him might have been a relative of Sajyou Ayaka, perhaps her father, and did not so much formally adopt him as become his guardian, with the hope of arranging a marriage to her. That requires knowing that Shirou has more magic circuits than one would expect, though. If the magus does find out, there's still an issue he hadn't considered: Shirou thinks of Ayaka as his sister, not a potential wife. Maybe they should have explained things when he was brought home.

    Was also thinking that the magus, whether a Sajyou or not, was an employee of the Fujimura clan. A man who joined the yakuza to help his community, and sees it as a true chivalrous organization, not the group of violent thugs many outsiders and police consider it to be. Of course, Raiga certainly encourages that belief. This Shirou could still wish to be a Champion of Justice, but would have a different (though clearer) idea of how to go about it.

    Shirou's training in formalcrft goes well enough, but he lacks canon-Shirou's talent for Projection, and thus, has to use real things as sacrifices, rather than Tracing them. His true talent lies in Fire, both its its destructive and creative aspects, and while he can use formalcraft to convert it to other elements when he has time, any magic used in a hurry (like, say, combat), without a Mystic Code or Conceptual Weapon, is going to be Fire-based. I'm not sure how good formalcraft is at creating Mystic Codes, as the wiki doesn't say, but as Shirou is capable of using Fire's creative aspect, he should be able to forge Mystic Codes, but would have difficulty crafting any that did not involve Fire in their creation. Conceptual Weapons are probably right out, though he might have a small chance of obtaining one through other means.

    I do not have an Aria for his Reality Marble, though I do have a possible name for it: Birth of the Phoenix.

    One may wonder what happened to Emiya Kiritsugu, that he was not there to save Shirou. Perhaps he found someone else to save, but that involves either creating a new character, or changing the story of an existing one.

    One possible point of divergence for this is that Tohsaka Sakura was not given to the Matou family, but to another. Let's say, a childless couple who use crystal magic, something similar enough to gem magic for Sakura to perform more easily than the Matou style. This Sakura, while still a very nice girl, has a much better sense of self-esteem, and occasionally shows an impish sense of humour, such as teasing Rin about Shirou by calling her 'Tsundere-neechan'. She may or may not even live in Fuyuki, or be interested in Shirou beyond 'nice, handsome guy', and might not be chosen as a Master. Perhaps the couple is more eccentic (from a magus's perspective), and Sakura is developing technomagic. (Weird idea: Babylon 5 came out before the Fourth Holy Grail War, so Sakura could be a Technomage fangirl, with a stylke to match.)

    Another idea is that the couple or person she was given to was killed in the Great Fire, and Kiritsugu saved her, thus explaining why he didn't find Shirou, since her was busy saving Sakura. Not sure how plausible either option is.

    Either of the above would mean that Matou Kariya had no reason to enter the Fourth Heaven's Feel, which would change that War severely. Tokiomi might not even be dead, and Aoi might be sane. Also, someone else would have summoned Berserker, and would most likely have gotten a different Berserker, at that, which means the Great Fire might not have happened, at all. So, perhaps 'Sakura goes to a family other than the Matous' should have its own TL, where first the alternate Fourth Holy Grail War is played out, then the interbellum decade, and only then the Fifth. Moving on:

    Perhaps Kiritsugu found no-one to save, in which case his future might go along the lines depicted in Tainted Ideals, which I probly shouldn't spoil by explaining. There are two possibilities: either he makes it there alive, or he doesn't, and that's going to strongly affect how Saber's Master behaves.

    Its also quite possible that he dies in the fire, and Avalon is either lost, or found by someone else, who will most likely be Saber Arturia's Master in the Fifth Heaven's Feel. Having that person be Shirou is out, as that strains SoD too far. Rin, perhaps? Maybe she found it during the time before the Fifth, or maybe Kotomine found it, and thought it would be amusing to give it to her. Maybe Ayaka or Sakura has it, and angsts over having to fight Shirou and/or Rin. Maybe Mitsuzuri Ayako has it, and is even less prepared for Saber's arrival than canon Shirou was. Maybe its hanging in the Ryuudouji Temple, and Caster uses it to summon Saber.

    Maybe it stays lost until the War begins, or isn't in the story at all, so the Saber of the Fifth War is not Arturia.

    I tried to come up with a good Servant for this Shirou, and my mind wandered to Azula, and from there, to this odd idea: Avatar: the Last Airbender, the cartoon, is in this version of the Nasuverse, a distorted account of events that took place in pre-Imperial China, Korea, and Japan, during the Age of Gods. Caster (or Berserker) Azula is pretty much the person she was in canon (maybe more sane, maybe less), and might have the ability to summon other spirits attached to her Legend - or not, considering that they abandoned her at the end. Depends on how close the end of the series is to what 'really' happened in the Nasuverse, and whether they got close to her again, after. Using Azula saves the trouble of creating an entirely new character, but if there's a canon Nasuverse character that would fit, the author is certainly free to use them.

    EDIT: You may want to ignore most of the first four pages of this thread. Sorry.
    Last edited by Prince Charon; September 15th, 2011 at 07:20 AM.


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    Well, if you're having Sakura remain as in canon, then her finding Avalon might be an interesting change, since the healing ability it provides might allow her to free herself from Zouken, or at least allow her to be freed more easily.

    Also, Shirou summoning someone who is (IIRC) a villain seems rather unlikely, TBH.

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    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Maybe Mitsuzuri Ayako has it, and is even less prepared for Saber's arrival than canon Shirou was.
    My word, fund it.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


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    Shirou: If you can't beat them, join them *eye rolls* burningclaw2's Avatar
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    Lina inverse is pretty good with fire spells. If Shirou ends up with a phoenix familiar I will laugh.
    Words to live by: Fate is a B****, Destiny is a whore, while Karma is just doing her job.

    Violence solves all problems. If its not working then you are not using enough.
    Even though I am male after taking a 'Which Fate/stay night Character are you?' quiz I am...

    Tohsaka Rin You are Rin. Cool and collected, you think logically about most situations. You strive for self-perfection, and rely on others only for your benefit. You may be cold toward most people, but you can be friendly when you try. Indeed, it could be said you enjoy helping others that you care for. Whatever the case, you tend to think logically and don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

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    This may hurt a little Neir's Avatar
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    WITCH CRAFT WORKS.
    Quote Originally Posted by lantzblades View Post
    says the hater, you keep on hating, i'll be around ignoring your invalid, incorrect opinion.
    [18:00] Spinach: Because I don't like Saber's personality but boy oh boy does she make my dick turn to diamonds when I see her getting tentacled.
    [18:01] Leo: feeling superior to EU makes me hard
    [16:16] <Bloble> Drakengard? Is that a rhythm game?

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors lethum's Avatar
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    So, Shirou dies in a fire, but comes back to life...in the fire! His life now begins and ends in fire, death, destruction, birth, creation and rebirth. Phoenix Force? Or a convenient Nasu-verse equivalent?

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    Shirou: If you can't beat them, join them *eye rolls* burningclaw2's Avatar
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    Shirou is an incarnation of fire it cannot kill him.
    Words to live by: Fate is a B****, Destiny is a whore, while Karma is just doing her job.

    Violence solves all problems. If its not working then you are not using enough.
    Even though I am male after taking a 'Which Fate/stay night Character are you?' quiz I am...

    Tohsaka Rin You are Rin. Cool and collected, you think logically about most situations. You strive for self-perfection, and rely on others only for your benefit. You may be cold toward most people, but you can be friendly when you try. Indeed, it could be said you enjoy helping others that you care for. Whatever the case, you tend to think logically and don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

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    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    It's an interesting idea. About Azula, I have to say that I don't have the foggiest idea about Avatar, so I can't say anything, but she doesn't seem to match Shirou's personality, unless this Shirou is way too different from his canon version.

    @Mike Avalon could hardly helps Sakura there. If only because Zouken doesn't have anything to do with her in this setting. That aside, I would be right with her having Avalon. Or Rin. But Rin has to summon EMIYA, if only to fuck with him, as this time he wouldn't be able to go for the paradox. And what the hell, he isn't exactly my favorite character, but when he isn't being an asshole, he is a nice character to have around.

    @TheSpy Spellcasters in manga/anime tends to be overkill, and Lina Inverse is one of the most broken magic users. I'll dare to say she is almost at the level or at the level of Dark Snider.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
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    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ergast View Post
    @Mike Avalon could hardly helps Sakura there. If only because Zouken doesn't have anything to do with her in this setting. That aside, I would be right with her having Avalon. Or Rin. But Rin has to summon EMIYA, if only to fuck with him, as this time he wouldn't be able to go for the paradox. And what the hell, he isn't exactly my favorite character, but when he isn't being an asshole, he is a nice character to have around.
    If Sakura had had Avalon in HF, removing the worm in her heart would have been much easier.

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    This may hurt a little Neir's Avatar
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    No, we discussed this. Avalon does not have ivermectin.
    Quote Originally Posted by lantzblades View Post
    says the hater, you keep on hating, i'll be around ignoring your invalid, incorrect opinion.
    [18:00] Spinach: Because I don't like Saber's personality but boy oh boy does she make my dick turn to diamonds when I see her getting tentacled.
    [18:01] Leo: feeling superior to EU makes me hard
    [16:16] <Bloble> Drakengard? Is that a rhythm game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    No, we discussed this. Avalon does not have ivermectin.
    Avalon when you have a contract with Saber allows the healing of virtually any wound, which would surely include the removal of Zouken's worm from Sakura's heart.

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    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    Avalon when you have a contract with Saber allows the healing of virtually any wound, which would surely include the removal of Zouken's worm from Sakura's heart.
    Whether Zouken's worm is a wound is debatable.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


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    This may hurt a little Neir's Avatar
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    Surely it would. If you make ungrounded assumptions.

    It's been there long enough that Avalon would just restore it anyway, even if your handwavium worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by lantzblades View Post
    says the hater, you keep on hating, i'll be around ignoring your invalid, incorrect opinion.
    [18:00] Spinach: Because I don't like Saber's personality but boy oh boy does she make my dick turn to diamonds when I see her getting tentacled.
    [18:01] Leo: feeling superior to EU makes me hard
    [16:16] <Bloble> Drakengard? Is that a rhythm game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeopardBear View Post
    Whether Zouken's worm is a wound is debatable.
    It's not, but it is stated by Kotomine that it can be removed, but doing so would kill her. Ergo, if you give her Avalon, it could likely be removed without killing her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    It's been there long enough that Avalon would just restore it anyway, even if your handwavium worked.
    Erm, what?

    Why would that happen? It's not part of Sakura, it's a foreign body that is inside her (hence why it is controlled by Zouken).

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    This may hurt a little Neir's Avatar
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    It's been part of her for 11 years. LONGER THAN AVALON HAS BEEN IN SHIROU.

    But go on. Continue your groundless statements.
    Quote Originally Posted by lantzblades View Post
    says the hater, you keep on hating, i'll be around ignoring your invalid, incorrect opinion.
    [18:00] Spinach: Because I don't like Saber's personality but boy oh boy does she make my dick turn to diamonds when I see her getting tentacled.
    [18:01] Leo: feeling superior to EU makes me hard
    [16:16] <Bloble> Drakengard? Is that a rhythm game?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    It's been part of her for 11 years. LONGER THAN AVALON HAS BEEN IN SHIROU.
    And?

    Avalon heals the body, it doesn't revert it back to its former state. However long the worm has been in Sakura, it is still a foreign object and, thus, there is no reason why Avalon should be expected to recreate it, and indeed it would be stupid if it even could.

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    This may hurt a little Neir's Avatar
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    even if she made a contract and had avalon inside her long enough for it to work on her body (ie 10 years), it would only heal her back to the point she was at when it was in there (ie still wormed).

    Also, it's a stupid idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by lantzblades View Post
    says the hater, you keep on hating, i'll be around ignoring your invalid, incorrect opinion.
    [18:00] Spinach: Because I don't like Saber's personality but boy oh boy does she make my dick turn to diamonds when I see her getting tentacled.
    [18:01] Leo: feeling superior to EU makes me hard
    [16:16] <Bloble> Drakengard? Is that a rhythm game?

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    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors shiningphoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    even if she made a contract and had avalon inside her long enough for it to work on her body (ie 10 years), it would only heal her back to the point she was at when it was in there (ie still wormed).
    Bullshit! If that were the case it couldn't have healed Shirou from the fire!
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    This may hurt a little Neir's Avatar
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    I believe it only stopped him from getting WORSE while natural healing and medicine did the real work. Besides, without Saber around, it doesn't do nearly as much.

    Edit: Regarding sickness, yes. Which is why I said it doesn't do nearly as much. Again, more preventative than restorative without Saber.
    Quote Originally Posted by lantzblades View Post
    says the hater, you keep on hating, i'll be around ignoring your invalid, incorrect opinion.
    [18:00] Spinach: Because I don't like Saber's personality but boy oh boy does she make my dick turn to diamonds when I see her getting tentacled.
    [18:01] Leo: feeling superior to EU makes me hard
    [16:16] <Bloble> Drakengard? Is that a rhythm game?

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    全力後輩 - Zenryoku Kohai Altima of the Gates's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    even if she made a contract and had avalon inside her long enough for it to work on her body (ie 10 years), it would only heal her back to the point she was at when it was in there (ie still wormed).

    Also, it's a stupid idea.
    If that was the case, her ripping it out in HF wouldn't have worked, and would have created another soul jar in it's place.
    Hell, she was ripped apart by Gil, her regen would then mean that every worm would have been restored, as, in your theory, the body
    would remember them being there.

    Just wut.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    I believe it only stopped him from getting WORSE while natural healing and medicine did the real work. Besides, without Saber around, it doesn't do nearly as much.
    He also said he never actually had illness in his life, so it's possible it stays minor pathogens.



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