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Thread: Melancholy of One (A Grail Works. LTD. Story)

  1. #21
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors pureauthor's Avatar
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    You do not appear to have any issue with the lack of Rider, Kurai, Garm, Len, Akiha, Kohaku, and Hisui, despite the fact that they are equally 'ignored'.

    In any case, since you feel strongly about this, I would like to ask you for what contributions you believe Sakura could have made to the meeting, since I myself am drawing a blank on the matter.

  2. #22
    Shirou: If you can't beat them, join them *eye rolls* burningclaw2's Avatar
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    This is a Grail War, and I doubt you want the possiblity of Sakura killing a child no older then 10 on her conscience do you Mike -.-
    Words to live by: Fate is a B****, Destiny is a whore, while Karma is just doing her job.

    Violence solves all problems. If its not working then you are not using enough.
    Even though I am male after taking a 'Which Fate/stay night Character are you?' quiz I am...

    Tohsaka Rin You are Rin. Cool and collected, you think logically about most situations. You strive for self-perfection, and rely on others only for your benefit. You may be cold toward most people, but you can be friendly when you try. Indeed, it could be said you enjoy helping others that you care for. Whatever the case, you tend to think logically and don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningclaw2 View Post
    This is a Grail War, and I doubt you want the possiblity of Sakura killing a child no older then 10 on her conscience do you Mike -.-
    Well, there's no way Sakura would be getting involved in the war, but that doesn't mean she won't have an opinion on it. She's part of the team, so it makes no sense to exclude her. And, indeed, it also doesn't make sense to exclude Rider.

    Hell, Sakura isn't even mentioned here. It's like she doesn't even exist, despite the fact that they've just decided to send Shirou off to (potentially) get killed. You'd think they'd at least have the courtesy to let her have a say in the decision on who to send, rather than keeping her entirely out of the loop and acting as if she doesn't even exist.

  4. #24
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors pureauthor's Avatar
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    Well, there's no way Sakura would be getting involved in the war, but that doesn't mean she won't have an opinion on it. She's part of the team, so it makes no sense to exclude her. And, indeed, it also doesn't make sense to exclude Rider.

    Hell, Sakura isn't even mentioned here. It's like she doesn't even exist, despite the fact that they've just decided to send Shirou off to (potentially) get killed. You'd think they'd at least have the courtesy to let her have a say in the decision on who to send, rather than keeping her entirely out of the loop and acting as if she doesn't even exist.
    The entire premise of the Grail Works continuity is that Shirou et al go off to do dangerous things and potentially get killed. Am I giving Sakura (and any of the others) too much credit when I say that they should have accepted that as a fundamental part of their lives from here on out?

    And I ask once again - what concrete, actual contribution in terms of opinions or decisions do you think Sakura would have made to the meeting had she been there?

    Also, what makes you think she's being kept out of the loop? First thing they did after the meeting was for Shirou to tell everyone who wasn't present that he'd be going away for a while, and the basic details if they wanted to know. I didn't mention it in the same manner I didn't mention that he also ate dinner and took a bath. It's a fundamental part of his life by now.

  5. #25
    Pwetty Pwease? qsurf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    Ah, so the usual excuses to ignore Sakura on the grounds that she "doesn't fight", then, even though that assertion is in itself dubious...?

    Yeah, I dunno why I bothered asking, because I could have pretty much predicted that answer from the very start.
    Mike, you're not being fair when you read what you want to read when people honestly try to answer your questions.

    The only person truly qualified to answer your question, the author, had in fact answered you as best as they could without spoiling their story's plot. Now remember, this is the Author's Word, so generally, that's how it is...as a reader, yes you can ask some more, tease some things out or help patch up any holes you find, but like Pure said, you crossed that line into harassment. No one, and I mean, no one, will take the effort to answer you properly if all they can expect from you is harassment, for some of us, you tend to end up as a plaything.

    Remember Mike, relax, calm down, chill.

    This is a fanfic written by someone else with their own ideas, their own goals, their own plans; don't stomp all over someone else's hard work with your own views, don't look at everything as something targeted at you or your interests.

    You have your answers, take off your blinds and read them properly this time.


    It's a shame you're always like this man, you're otherwise a pretty cool guy.

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    I wonder if 'Nero' is from Grail Wars...
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pureauthor View Post
    The entire premise of the Grail Works continuity is that Shirou et al go off to do dangerous things and potentially get killed. Am I giving Sakura (and any of the others) too much credit when I say that they should have accepted that as a fundamental part of their lives from here on out?

    And I ask once again - what concrete, actual contribution in terms of opinions or decisions do you think Sakura would have made to the meeting had she been there?

    Also, what makes you think she's being kept out of the loop? First thing they did after the meeting was for Shirou to tell everyone who wasn't present that he'd be going away for a while, and the basic details if they wanted to know. I didn't mention it in the same manner I didn't mention that he also ate dinner and took a bath. It's a fundamental part of his life by now.
    I'm sure Sakura accepts that Shirou, Rin etc. going off to do dangerous things and getting killed is a possibility, but that doesn't mean she should be excluded from the meetings when they decide such things. And, whilst I'm not convinced Sakrua would have had much to contribute to the meeting, that doesn't mean she shouldn't be there. When you're planning a mission like that, it's not good to exclude members of the team because you don't know that they have something important to say. Indeed, nor does Rin, really.

    Plus, they're having a discussion. What's to say that Sakura wouldn't come up with some important insight? It's clearly more than just deciding who should go, they're planning out the entire job, and I see absolutely no reason why Sakura (and the rest) should not be part of that. Sakura is part of the team, not a general dogsbody who isn't important enough to have an opinion, like you seem to think.

    Quote Originally Posted by qsurf View Post
    Mike, you're not being fair when you read what you want to read when people honestly try to answer your questions.

    The only person truly qualified to answer your question, the author, had in fact answered you as best as they could without spoiling their story's plot. Now remember, this is the Author's Word, so generally, that's how it is...as a reader, yes you can ask some more, tease some things out or help patch up any holes you find, but like Pure said, you crossed that line into harassment. No one, and I mean, no one, will take the effort to answer you properly if all they can expect from you is harassment, for some of us, you tend to end up as a plaything.

    Remember Mike, relax, calm down, chill.

    This is a fanfic written by someone else with their own ideas, their own goals, their own plans; don't stomp all over someone else's hard work with your own views, don't look at everything as something targeted at you or your interests.

    You have your answers, take off your blinds and read them properly this time.


    Spoiler:
    It's a shame you're always like this man, you're otherwise a pretty cool guy.
    Sorry, but it's just utterly ludicrous for them to have a team planning session without half the team. Yes, Sakura has nothing specific to add, but nor does Rin, and she's still there. She is perfectly capable of having an opinion, and I see absolutely no reason why she should be kept out and then just informed of the decision afterwards, as if she's not an important enough member of the group to be given the right to even have a say in how they operate.

    And, honestly, the lack of Sakura in this chapter has nothing to do with the plot of the story. It's simply that he seemingly doesn't think she's important enough to warrant a mention.
    Last edited by Mike1984; November 7th, 2011 at 01:06 PM.

  7. #27
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    They weren't "planning" anything. They were just deciding who will go. What input can Sakura possibly put into that decision?

    [09:23] <Ariadniensis> spin
    [09:23] <Ariadniensis> you are the dark souls of internet friends

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    They weren't "planning" anything. They were just deciding who will go. What input can Sakura possibly put into that decision?
    They were discussing the situation and who to send. I see no reason why Sakura has any less of an "input" on that than e.g. Rin does. She's part of the group, she should have the ability to contribute to their decisions like everyone else, not merely be informed of them as if she were just some lackey who they use as a healer.

  9. #29
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors reborn214's Avatar
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    You know is it me or is extra saber in this fic actually
    Spoiler:
    Mordred

    which would explain why she isn't keen about revealing her identity

  10. #30
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    They were discussing the situation and who to send. I see no reason why Sakura has any less of an "input" on that than e.g. Rin does.
    Rin is a candidate to go. That's why she's there. It's really as simple as that.

    [09:23] <Ariadniensis> spin
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  11. #31
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors pureauthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    I'm sure Sakura accepts that Shirou, Rin etc. going off to do dangerous things and getting killed is a possibility, but that doesn't mean she should be excluded from the meetings when they decide such things. And, whilst I'm not convinced Sakrua would have had much to contribute to the meeting, that doesn't mean she shouldn't be there. When you're planning a mission like that, it's not good to exclude members of the team because you don't know that they have something important to say. Indeed, nor does Rin, really.

    Plus, they're having a discussion. What's to say that Sakura wouldn't come up with some important insight? It's clearly more than just deciding who should go, they're planning out the entire job, and I see absolutely no reason why Sakura (and the rest) should not be part of that. Sakura is part of the team, not a general dogsbody who isn't important enough to have an opinion, like you seem to think.
    Ilya called this meeting with a specific question in mind - who of the people present will be the one to go?

    It's not a brainstorming session where they toss out ideas and someone gets a flash of insight, it is a simple decision based on 'Who is willing and able to go, and likely to be able to resolve this problem.'

    Recall that this was not put a vote - Shirou was chosen as the one to go on the basis of the fact that he is the person most suited to the task.

    Sorry, but it's just utterly ludicrous for them to have a team planning session without half the team. Yes, Sakura has nothing specific to add, but nor does Rin, and she's still there. She is perfectly capable of having an opinion, and I see absolutely no reason why she should be kept out and then just informed of the decision afterwards, as if she's not an important enough member of the group to be given the right to even have a say in how they operate.

    And, honestly, the lack of Sakura in this chapter has nothing to do with the plot of the story. It's simply that he seemingly doesn't think she's important enough to warrant a mention.
    It is not a 'team planning' session. It is a 'Who will go' session, and frankly adding more people to the mix would only bog the decision making process down. Only the people who would potentially be going at all attended.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    Rin is a candidate to go. That's why she's there. It's really as simple as that.
    I understand that, but it just seems wrong to exclude half of the team from the discussion. They're treating Sakura like a second-class member just because she doesn't generally go out and perform missions.

    Quote Originally Posted by pureauthor View Post
    It is not a 'team planning' session. It is a 'Who will go' session, and frankly adding more people to the mix would only bog the decision making process down. Only the people who would potentially be going at all attended.
    I just find it extremely annoying that, as usual, people seem to be looking for excuses not to include Sakura, even when she is actually an integral part of the canonical setting.

  13. #33
    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    This isn't exactly the canon setting, you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


  14. #34
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    I give up.

    I look forward to the next update, Pureauthor.

    [09:23] <Ariadniensis> spin
    [09:23] <Ariadniensis> you are the dark souls of internet friends

  15. #35
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors pureauthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    I understand that, but it just seems wrong to exclude half of the team from the discussion. They're treating Sakura like a second-class member just because she doesn't generally go out and perform missions.
    In which case the crux of the matter appears to be that we have different opinions on how tasks such as these are supposed to be executed.

    I just find it extremely annoying that, as usual, people seem to be looking for excuses not to include Sakura, even when she is actually an integral part of the canonical setting.
    Well, if it makes you feel better, I can tell you in all honesty that that is not the case in this particular story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeopardBear View Post
    This isn't exactly the canon setting, you know.
    What do you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by pureauthor View Post
    In which case the crux of the matter appears to be that we have different opinions on how tasks such as these are supposed to be executed.
    Perhaps.

    However, your way seems to have them treating Sakura as if she is of absolutely zero importance except when they come crawling to her with wounds to heal, so....

    Well, if it makes you feel better, I can tell you in all honesty that that is not the case in this particular story.
    Well, I can't see how Sakura is going to be strongly involved in any of the rest of it, given that it's set in Extra's world....

  17. #37
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors pureauthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    What do you mean?
    Well, at it's core it's following the 'Ilya Route' for FSN, so... yeah.



    Perhaps.

    However, your way seems to have them treating Sakura as if she is of absolutely zero importance except when they come crawling to her with wounds to heal, so....



    Well, I can't see how Sakura is going to be strongly involved in any of the rest of it, given that it's set in Extra's world....
    In a more generalized meeting, yes, Sakura will be there and contributing overall in terms of ideas. (At least for my part, Grail Works is supposed to be collaborative storyline after all). But not in this very focused meeting with a single specific question.

    And yes, Sakura isn't going to play a big role in this particular storyline. But that's not the same as (in your words) 'looking for excuses' not to include her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pureauthor View Post
    Well, at it's core it's following the 'Ilya Route' for FSN, so... yeah.
    Which makes Sakura "unimportant" how, exactly...?

    And yes, Sakura isn't going to play a big role in this particular storyline. But that's not the same as (in your words) 'looking for excuses' not to include her.
    You don't seem to bother to even need to "look", you seem to have a ready-made one at hand....

    Anyway, whatever. Our opinions on this clearly differ, and you're not going to suddenly magically include her (and nor, indeed, would it make sense to give her a significant role in the fic overall), so there's no point in me continuing to argue this.

  19. #39
    Chasing After that Elusive Dream Heroslayer's Avatar
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    It's a long story that will have several arcs. Sakura is not really included in this one, but she will be in future ones. It's not that he's attempting to exclude a member, but he's just keeping it simple. I mean, there are plenty of stories where a character doesn't come in until several chapters in. The author wasn't trying to be mean to that character, they just didn't have a proper place for them yet. I think you're just seeing too deeply into this, Mike. You see it as Sakura being ignored again, while I see it as simple not including her as a pointless cameo in this arc.

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    Well, I understand that Sakura isn't going to play a big role in this particular story, but they didn't even bother to acknowledge that she existed.

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