The Grail Works Mission Dossier (Discussion & Ideas)

[Kieran]

And having gone through my entire "Exiles" collection (which is less of the series than I've read, but all I own to work with), I've more or less worked out how Ilya sets things up:

* Shirou makes his wish, and Ilya/the Grail accesses the Second Magic to make it possible (if the Grail can pull off the Third, it can do the Second)

* Ilya downloads the experience of an alternate of herself which has access to an extension (Servant class) with extensive knowledge of parallel worlds - including the Panoptichron, an observatory which lies outside of space and time, cataloguing the multiverse. And while the extension doesn't possess the knowledge of how to safely operate it (only that one such attempt broke the multiverse), it does know of a system which can potentially handle it - and is, funnily enough, also an alternate of Ilya . . .

* Ilya downloads the experience of the Moon Cell/the Holy Grail, enabling her to interface with the Panoptichron's alien technology - more or less.

Cue Grail Works setup . . .

[Gray]

Are they immortal? Not undying just ageless. Do they get a decent power boost because Shirou while versative isn't exactly a power house.

[Xamusel]

I wouldn't call them immortal... but, well, let Kieran answer that one for us.

[Kieran]

Are they immortal? Not undying just ageless. Do they get a decent power boost because Shirou while versative isn't exactly a power house.

I wouldn't call them immortal... but, well, let Kieran answer that one for us.

. . . By "they," I assume you mean the Works operatives?

Not as a group, no. Saber, Rider and Arcueid would qualify, given their natures (as would Ilya, probably), but the rest are just themselves.

Yeah, it means the odds are against them - Shirou wanted to be "able to save everyone," so Ilya set him up to do exactly that. He has the ability: the Panoptichron's temporal scanners can tell them how to fix a timeline, and what will happen if they don't, or if they do certain things, and he can reach everywhere he needs to - but ultimately, it's just the chance to save everyone. Actually pulling it off requires him to work for it . . . And a whole lot of luck.

Hence, assembling the Works - skilled people with an interest in helping (or who can be bribed to do so) - and scavenging every usable scrap they can. And when things are really bad, they can use the Grail, though that requires gathering a ridiculous amount of energy first.

[Gray]

They have the second magic can't they just take mana from a lifeless world. Or hey stars give energy take some from a dying star? Pull a Thor and all that.
If we can somehow fit a version of Lancelot on the team I'm game.

[Vigilantia]

. . . By "they," I assume you mean the Works operatives?

Not as a group, no. Saber, Rider and Arcueid would qualify, given their natures (as would Ilya, probably), but the rest are just themselves.

Yeah, it means the odds are against them - Shirou wanted to be "able to save everyone," so Ilya set him up to do exactly that. He has the ability: the Panoptichron's temporal scanners can tell them how to fix a timeline, and what will happen if they don't, or if they do certain things, and he can reach everywhere he needs to - but ultimately, it's just the chance to save everyone. Actually pulling it off requires him to work for it . . . And a whole lot of luck.

Hence, assembling the Works - skilled people with an interest in helping (or who can be bribed to do so) - and scavenging every usable scrap they can. And when things are really bad, they can use the Grail, though that requires gathering a ridiculous amount of energy first.

McNab: Well that's easy, all we have to do is setup a Dyson sphere around a sun in an uninhabited universe and syphon the energy into the Grail. Construction costs would be high but I know of...

Ilya: Idiot! The Grail doesn't work like that. It needs magic energy.

McNab: Well that shouldn't be difficult. If we can manipulate the Quantum Tunneling affect to transport energy from the Twisting Nether to the Panoptichron, we should be able to deliver a constant stream of magical energy to fill the Grail. Of course, that would require breaching the Kiwozaki dimensional barrier via a Tessarium Black Fusion reactor but I'm sure...

Ilya: GAH!!!! (smacks McNab)

[Xamusel]

Vigilantia, you made me laugh at that, dude.

[Mattias]

Yeah, it means the odds are against them - Shirou wanted to be "able to save everyone," so Ilya set him up to do exactly that. He has the ability: the Panoptichron's temporal scanners can tell them how to fix a timeline, and what will happen if they don't, or if they do certain things, and he can reach everywhere he needs to - but ultimately, it's just the chance to save everyone. Actually pulling it off requires him to work for it . . . And a whole lot of luck.

But even the first arc of Exiles was proof that if you try to save everyone you also create monsters. A theme which they constantly brought up in their run. And a decidedly Archer-like way of thinking. What happens the first time Shirou has to kill a young Franklin Richards before he goes crazy and kills off 90% of humanity? Sabertooth tried to save him and even after raising the kid, still failed.

[Xamusel]

Ouch... that does not sound good.

[Gray]

Yeah so no magically fixing things with grail without great cost got it Vigilantia.
Is this not just a wish fullfillment thing for Shirou running to other worlds and being awesome at saving people. Let's try not to drag it down with things like moral ambiguity. Let's treat it like a golden age comic book instead of the grim dark 90s.

[Vigilantia]

Yeah so no magically fixing things with grail without great cost got it Vigilantia.
Is this not just a wish fullfillment thing for Shirou running to other worlds and being awesome at saving people. Let's try not to drag it down with things like moral ambiguity. Let's treat it like a golden age comic book instead of the grim dark 90s.

Huh? my post was just making a joke. I think you meant Mattias.

This isn't any of the above. It's a util for crossover fics (as said in the first post). You can make it as 90's comic book or noir-dark as you want it. The mood/atmosphere depends on the author.

[Mattias]

My point was more that in the original stories, people came to the Works asking for help, often because their world has gone off the rails, normally due to a missing person, and needs to be set right again. Even then they still screened applicants. But there isn't always going to be an easy solution if you go looking for work. If you wanted to do a nice golden/silver age story where everyone lives and Hitler gets punched in the face, you shouldn't look to a 90's morally ambiguous comic for inspiration.

[Kieran]

They have the second magic can't they just take mana from a lifeless world. Or hey stars give energy take some from a dying star? Pull a Thor and all that.

Now that the initial wish is done with, they're limited to Rin's skill with Kaleidoscope - or disassembling the Panoptichron, since that's part of how it's powered. Neither is an course of action they feel confident in doing.

If we can somehow fit a version of Lancelot on the team I'm game.

No one's tried bringing him in yet - but I like it. Give it a try, if you can.

Ilya: Idiot! The Grail doesn't work like that. It needs magic energy.

That, too.

But even the first arc of Exiles was proof that if you try to save everyone you also create monsters. A theme which they constantly brought up in their run. And a decidedly Archer-like way of thinking. What happens the first time Shirou has to kill a young Franklin Richards before he goes crazy and kills off 90% of humanity? Sabertooth tried to save him and even after raising the kid, still failed.

If you want to write a tale that way, be my guest. I'm aiming for something a little lighter-hearted and more comedic than, say, "Trinity" - which has enough grim/dark in it to depress me.

Incidentally, the Works is designed as a crossover mechanism for anybody - any writer, any setting. Just because I'm using a Marvel device (now), don't assume it's limited to just that.

. . . And yes, this means that "Beast of the Moon" is going back up - it's just easiest. However, it will obviously need some revision (and maybe a better title.)

Yeah so no magically fixing things with grail without great cost got it Vigilantia.

Yeah - make them work for it, because if it's too easy, what's the point, narratively speaking?

The Grail is available as a deus ex machina, if you really need it, but you shouldn't pull it out too often, much like they don't use Dragon Balls or Infinity Gems or other items of that type too often. Except, given its nature, the limitation is on charging the damned thing up to do any good.

[Gray]

We ever see an origin story of Dragon Saber and her Plushie horde because that sounds hilarious.

[Kieran]

We ever see an origin story of Dragon Saber and her Plushie horde because that sounds hilarious.

I can probably add that in, if you like.

I've already received a request to tone down Saber's animosity to Kurai - and looking back, I can see that I probably overdid it - so this will likely take a while, but I'll see what I can do.

[Gray]

That would be fun to be honest. I think I'll try to write a short snippet but you're dealing with a teenager's understanding of literature so it might not be the greatest thing.

[Kieran]

Everybody has to start somewhere - if you'd seen some of the utter drek that I used to write . . . *Shudders*

If you're really unsure, try posting a bit of it here, first - we can play sounding board.

[crystalwatcher]

Huh... So we're scouring the omniverse to find help and to hand out help on mass-scale pretty much?

And what if we accidentally create several monsters along the way? Pausing and thinking about this we could have several mutually exclusive stories going on all at the same time. For example one author writes our that his chosen characters go to the world of Escaflowne and they save them from that assimilation plot. Then another author writes out that they accidentally released the time-compression dude getting released into Final Fantasy 8's world where he meets Ultimecia and another group of characters scramble to fix it before shit hits the fan and blows the roof off the house.

Honestly I feel this gives the entire thing a more concrete backdrop. It'd also allow us to pull off some other possible contingencies where we also go in and keep several universes from colliding with eachother and created that kind of clusterfuck.

huh... lots to think about.

[Kieran]

. . . I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

[Gray]

Could we have something that works like the Doctor's Tardis and Phsycic paper. Show cries of help and the people go to answer them. Then we use the main base to monitor the areas that were saved. This would alert us when those accidental monster creation stories show up. We then send another squad or redeploy the original squad to clean up the mess. This way we have a convenient excuse to go wherever we want and a reason to do follow ups.