The Grail Works Mission Dossier (Discussion & Ideas)

[Comartemis]

Hmm... thanks for the information, you guys, I appreciate it a lot.

Now, I would've said something earlier, but I was bone tired and I only a short bit ago woke up. Anyway, what can I say...? Hmm, this sure is ridiculous.

...

...

Oh, right! I have a rather interesting idea, namely in terms of how my character can go through the story benefits of "leveling up". Everyone? Meet Han Jee-Han... AKA The Gamer!

...okay, in more serious terms, the base powerset behind Kyou's powers is based around the titular power of The Gamer, only it's more based on Tabletop RPGs, instead of online games as of right now. In short, whenever she levels up (so to speak), there's a specific amount of time when she has to wait before the stat points go up like they do in Tabletop RPGs. In fact, during the first two stories, you'll see that she's going to be going into the "epic" levels of Star Wars Saga Edition (when I have to jury rig the system to allow for it to begin with).

Then again, to compensate for the jury rigging of the system, I'll have to make practically every villain more dangerous than they were in canon according to the Star Wars Saga Edition rules! I really wish that the heroes would have it easier in Star Wars, but, well... I want to tell a good story that has all the challenges a good story should. As they should say, if one makes Frodo a Jedi, give Sauron the Yuuzhan Vong (the aliens who are Force-dead in terms of how it fails to work on them and so on and so forth) on top of the Death Stars and other super weapons the Empire has!

The big problem with using The Gamer for anything is that I've never seen a fic use game mechanics and not get completely bogged down by them. Ryuugi's The Games We Play over on SB for example turns into an endless loop of level grinding and skill growth and explaining how the skills work together to make bigger numbers and it's just boring as hell. The Gamer itself arguably has this problem too: the first 30-ish chapters is just constant level grinding with no conflict or anything else involved.

[Xamusel]

That sounds like an idea that would make GW a lot more confusing for me. I don't know the rules of anything other than 3.5.

Actually, I was planning to make it so that the story would stay the focus, over the rules and such... if that makes sense.

that said, if you're familiar with The New Jedi Order series and got pissed off at how they started killing off fan-favorites to compensate for lack of writing ability, I have a fanfic you might want to check out.

Not familiar enough with the NJO timeline, sadly, so I'll have to give that a pass.

I tend to agree with the above - especially since you'll be jury-rigging the system. Homebrew content tends not to work well . . . There's nothing wrong with using the d20 system to describe the character, of course; you just don't need to get so explicitly meta with it.

I appreciate the heads up. Nominally, I wouldn't use this method, but I feel that I have to... mainly to keep the heroes from having too much going for them at any one time.

. . . And, if you want an "epic" level system that's probably more compatible with the Star Wars Saga Edition (and definitely better-organized and balanced than D&D's version), might I recommend the Pathfinder mythic system?

I actually never heard good things about the Mythic System, Kieran... though probably because I never used it myself and listened to the viewpoints of those who did, anyway.

The big problem with using The Gamer for anything is that I've never seen a fic use game mechanics and not get completely bogged down by them. Ryuugi's The Games We Play over on SB for example turns into an endless loop of level grinding and skill growth and explaining how the skills work together to make bigger numbers and it's just boring as hell. The Gamer itself arguably has this problem too: the first 30-ish chapters is just constant level grinding with no conflict or anything else involved.

I'm working on fixing that part, believe me. It might be one of the most tricky things out there to do, but I'll pull it off (I think).

[Kieran]

. . . So I've been working on retooling my SI character back into a Celtic Scion (even if it doesn't seem like I've been doing anything on this front for a while), and something occurred to me this morning: an apparently unwritten Rule of Type-Moon that has two major points of manifestation.

1) Celtic heroes are invariably screwed over. This is not really a problem, as with my SI and style of writing, this would be pretty much be a given anyway . . .

2) They invariably have one diehard (sometimes in the literal sense) fangirl - whether we're talking about Bazett and Cu Chulainn, or Diarmuid and Sola Ui . . . So, on that note: anybody have any candidates they can think of for the second part?

[Draconic]

Well, you can't have a self-insert character be fangirled over by a canon character, so here's what I propose:
Write a character based on one of the other male Beast's Lair patrons as a girl.
I suggest Arashi.

Also, I'm gonna go hide now, because I have this weird feeling like when he sees that he'll kill me.

[Xamusel]

I propose Takara.

[hatori]

Xam's suggestion holds more weight actually...

Given that Takara managed to call Kieran Holt from across Dimensions( with Ilya's and Zeltretch's help, true, but imagine what will be the result if she actually wanted to call him...)

who's betting against that?

[Kieran]

Well, you can't have a self-insert character be fangirled over by a canon character, so here's what I propose:
Write a character based on one of the other male Beast's Lair patrons as a girl.
I suggest Arashi.

Also, I'm gonna go hide now, because I have this weird feeling like when he sees that he'll kill me.

. . . I'm sure that once my brain reboots, I might be tempted to - so hiding sounds like a plan.

I propose Takara.

Xam's suggestion holds more weight actually...

Given that Takara managed to call Kieran Holt from across Dimensions( with Ilya's and Zeltretch's help, true, but imagine what will be the result if she actually wanted to call him...)

who's betting against that?

. . . Yeah, that could actually work. It's just a question of which Takara - the original "Legacies of Fate" version, the one from the one ending where she was going to go across dimensions looking for him, or an all-new(ish) alternate?

[Xamusel]

I vote for the one with the most potential for humor.

...what? Can't we get humor to go along with the seriousness?

[Draconic]

Wait, why do you want to kill me? I'll admit, I kind of look like poultry right now, but…

[Kieran]

I vote for the one with the most potential for humor.

...what? Can't we get humor to go along with the seriousness?

That is kind of the point . . .

. . . Mm - means the vanilla "Legacies of Fate" Takara is out, and probably the more standard Grail War variations, too; Takara a la "Prisma Ilya," maybe . . .?

Wait, why do you want to kill me? I'll admit, I kind of look like poultry right now, but…

Because I immediately pictured feminised versions of Lair Dwellers I know, and - No. Just no.

. . . And lucky you: I avoid poultry, as a rule.

[Draconic]

I'll, admit that I only suggested it because it seemed absurd, but it seems like you've visited the BL cam thread. I care very little for what the other patrons actually look like, more the image that their personality paints of them.

[Xamusel]

Wait... Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Takara?!

Dude, you're evil... and sooo HIRED!! Please, write that!

[Kieran]

I'll, admit that I only suggested it because it seemed absurd, but it seems like you've visited the BL cam thread.

Honestly, I had no idea such a thing existed; I just have a too-vivid-for-my-own-good imagination.

I care very little for what the other patrons actually look like, more the image that their personality paints of them.

Likewise, though obviously I've been reasonably thorough in my own description.

Wait... Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Takara?!

More or less - though obviously, working out the logistics would take some time and effort. Even if I do Takara at Ilya's age in the series (i.e., 10 or 11), Rin won't be a teenager, and presumably her rivalry with Luvia will be dealt with by then. Then there's the question of the Class Cards - do I use the Fifth Grail War Servants as in canon, the Sixth Grail War ones, or take advantage of Fate/EXTRA and Grand Order to cherry-pick my favourites?

. . . And finally, the rival. I adore Miyu, but a more Tsukihime-oriented one might be nice for Takara to deal with. Shin Tohno's the obvious choice, but there are so many potential options - even my SI, if you think about it . . .

Heck, Mana Ryogi might work, at that!

Dude, you're evil... and sooo HIRED!! Please, write that!

I'll certainly file it as "under consideration" - if nothing else, it'd be shorter than most of what I do . . . And I do have the first two seasons, so I can work with it, if that makes sense.

[Xamusel]

To answer your questions as best as I can, Kieran, take advantage of Fate/EXTRA and Grand Order for your Servants in the Class Cards. As for the rival... we need more Rakkyo. Send in Mana!

Can't help regarding Rin and Luvia, mind, but that's the best I can do.

[Kieran]

. . . So, I've brought up this character before, several iterations ago - but there's been a development of late where I can actually show her to you:





I think she'd make an interesting foil for my SI, even if she's not a Type-Moon character - she certainly takes after EMIYA Archer in attitude, among other things.

[Xamusel]

Kieran... I'll give you some feedback when I have the time for it.

[Draconic]

Mana Ryougi! Do it! Do it now! Wait… what am I cheering for?…

[Kieran]

I'm not sure . . . *Blinks* Were you maybe supporting the idea of Mana being the rival if I wrote "Prisma Takara?" That's the only possible mention of her I can think of.

. . . And just to add to the confusion, by the way, I've been looking into Magic: The Gathering of late, and I think Kurai as a newly-ignited Planeswalker might have potential . . .

[Xamusel]

How would it work out for the Grail Works? Just as a matter of curiosity and concern.

[Kieran]

How would it work out for the Grail Works? Just as a matter of curiosity and concern.

Since he's both newly-ascended, and following the newer (read: more mortal) template, not much immediately. Essentially, if I'm reading it correctly, he'd be a magical savant capable of learning spells and concepts with astonishing speed - think something akin to Shirou, with magic instead of weapons. He can "mirror" things (including creatures) to summon - if not bond or even create them outright? It's a bit unclear, so far. I really need to track down some of the Magic: The Gathering novels to get an idea of how exactly it's supposed to work outside of cards . . .

Of course, to use any of it, he has to have links to sources of the appropriate Mana - which are not necessarily all that easy to come by. Moreover, he doesn't actually know how to create those, either.

In practical terms, I have a Magic Intro Deck, of the Blue colour. This means that what magic I have available lends itself well to Knowledge, Illusions, Air and Water, and Chronomancy. It's less about direct damage, and more about manipulating the battlefield; counterspells, and the like.