The Grail Works Mission Dossier (Discussion & Ideas)

[Xamusel]

Right... though I know next to nothing on Dresden, anyway, so there's that issue.

[Kieran]

Well, aside from the fact that I just spoiled the mystery of the fourth book for you (sorry about that), much like with any of my crossovers, you'd get it explained as you go along. Especially since, at the moment, our narrator is just me, rather than any Being of Power in particular, not to mention where and when he's been dropped in - and the variations to this particular setting . . .

Point of interest: I also thought about his being bound to the Winter (read: Unseelie) Court, in which case the title of the snippet (and probably story) would've been Cold Case - but I figured that Avalon, being what it is, was more likely a gift to Arturia from the Summer Court, instead.

[Kieran]

Writer's Notes: For those unfamiliar with the "Dresden Files" novel series, I will warn you that a fair amount of spoilers are now involved - particularly but not limited to the fourth book, "Summer Knight."


Continuing . . .








Now, despite being in his city (and fairly early in his personal timeline, somehow), I wasn’t Harry Dresden—though I might get mistaken for him by somebody working off a general description.

To start with, we were both tall, though I was around six feet, and he was closer to seven; we were both lanky of build, though I was more accurately described as “gaunt.” We both had brown hair—though I was a light chestnut, and Dresden was a deeper hue—frequently got in over our heads, and thought we were funnier than most other people apparently did. And though Dresden’s age was never outright given in the series, it was implied that he wasn’t that much older than me.

There were also a number of important differences between us, however. He had brown eyes to my blue, for example, and a lot more muscle and scarring. Also, more independence, more actual friends (I love my online communities, but I can count the number of times I’ve met people from them on one hand), and a higher-paying job.

Of course, said job came with a significantly higher risk of maiming, mutilation, death and annual Apocalypse threats than mine did, so maybe that wasn’t such a plus.

In any case, Dresden also had the good luck to have a guy who paid his bills by writing the snarky quips and pop culture references that came out of Dresden’s mouth behind him, whereas I had to rely on my own, often meagre (or at least, scattered) wits. It was one of the benefits of being a literary character, versus an actual person—at least, relative to my home universe . . .

Yeah. I’d had to rewrite my definition of “real,” lately, and this current assignment looked it was going to have me adding a few new clauses to it.

In any case, there was one other major difference between Harry Dresden and me: he was a professional wizard-slash-private investigator, and I wasn’t. As such, dealing with this sort of supernatural mystery was his job, and the smartest move I could possibly make at this point was to pass it on to him.

So, naturally, I looked him up in the phone book—starting with the Yellow Pages, under “Wizards” (. . . What? That’s how the novels of his series said he advertised, so it made sense to look there).

And when I didn’t find him there, I looked under “Private Investigators,” and then “Dresden, Harry.”

. . . And when I didn’t find anything, I spent five to ten minutes panicking.

Once that cleared (for the moment), I started considering things more thoroughly. I was in the Dresdenverse, or some variation thereof—the presence of Aurora, the Summer Lady, Queen-to-Be of the Seelie Court (and probably other titles I’d never been told of), was enough to prove that.

And I was in Chicago, according to the phone book—and it was a 2002 edition, which was current, more or less, to the timeframe I’d have expected, given the events currently going on. Said edition was about fifteen years behind my personal experiences, but that was neither here nor there; what mattered was that everything that I knew and could verify at the present time said that Dresden should exist here.

And everything I knew about what was up ahead said that if he didn’t, this planet was screwed.

One crisis at a time, I reminded myself. First, figure out how to not get killed by the secretly-insane Summer Lady or her minions while trying to prevent them from triggering a new ice age; worry about stuff like the vampire/wizard war, the genocidal cultists, the necromancer god-wannabes—and oh so much more after that . . .

Did I neglect to mention that in addition to my talent for getting in over my head, I have an absolute genius when it comes to understatement?

In any case, my immediate problem was getting out of here without arousing any suspicions, followed by figuring out a way to finger Aurora for the crime without getting killed for it. The former, in all honesty, probably wouldn’t be an issue unless I got nervous, panicked, or did something incredibly stupid (which, I’ll admit, was more likely than I wanted it to be). So far as she knew I was working for her, or her side, at least, after all—

I stopped. Why was I working for her side? In the book, the Summer Court’s emissary in the investigation had been Elaine Mallory: Dresden’s first love, a fairly powerful wizard in her own right, and a semi-unwitting cat’s-paw of Aurora’s. Why wasn’t she available to do this?

And there was an even better question waiting in the wings: who was Winter’s emissary in this, since Dresden was apparently unavailable?

I shivered. That was a question whose answer would undoubtedly qualify as rocket-grade nightmare fuel. The obvious answer was Lloyd Slate, the current Winter Knight: a drug-addicted rapist who, in collusion with Aurora, was the Summer Knight’s actual killer. And yet . . .

And yet, Queen Mab had gone to an outside source in Dresden, rather than use her Knight, who was supposed to be her representative in the mortal world—granted, usually in the capacity of “hitman,” but still. So had Queen Titania, really; Aurora might’ve manoeuvred to put Elaine in her position, but the only tie either wizard had to the Sidhe was that they owed them favours.

Maybe that was the point of the Emissaries: to be relatively neutral investigators, or arbitrators, in a dispute between the Courts?

I shook my head, dispelling the train of thought. It was a tangent, and while it was definitely important—the Sidhe, among all fairies, lived and breathed these kinds of politics and intrigue—it wasn’t helpful right this second. I’d still need to figure it out, since my life might eventually depend on the obligations and boundaries (and potential loopholes) inherent in my position, but not now.

OK, back to the problem at hand: I wasn’t Harry Dresden, and I had neither the magical nor the mundane training to do what he did; in this case, investigate a homicide. I did, however, have a mental list of his contacts within Chicago, and they were as good a place as any to start—so what did I know, and how could I best make use of it?

For starters, the Chicago police department had a Special Investigations division that handled anything that belonged on an episode of “The X-Files”; they existed mainly to explain it away, but supernatural (or at least, “weird”) crimes were still their beat. I doubted that walking in and explaining my situation would do anything other than net me a night in their drunk tank, but their department head, Lieutenant Karrin Murphy, was a close friend of Dresden’s, and she lived in the city.

Bracing Murphy at home might get me something; probably my ass kicked, but Murphy at this point in the series was a believer, and she had a drive to see justice done. Better still, she was armed, trained, and experienced in political manoeuvring, if not necessarily all that great at it—Special Investigations was the Chicago P.D.’s last stop, career-wise.

Still, maybe she could figure out a way to get me out of this intact. If nothing else, maybe she could tell me what the hell had happened to Harry Dresden.

With Elaine missing, too, I’d have suspected Dresden of dying as teenagers—and maybe they had—but if that was the case . . .

I checked the phonebook. No, Karrin Murphy was listed (well, actually a lot of “Murphy, Ks,” but I chose to be optimistic for once), and so presumably still among the living. Given that I could think of at least four occasions in the books prior to the one whose events I was experiencing now where she would have died without Dresden, I doubted his absence was a result of something different occurring in his youth.

I turned my mind to other potential resources, flipping through the phonebook to confirm their existence. McAnally’s Pub was around, which was good. It was a watering hole for supernaturals; mostly minor magical practitioners who didn’t have the raw power Harry did as a wizard. Also the home of a great steak sandwich, apparently, which I really wanted to try now that I realised I had the option.

But most importantly, to the supernatural world in Chicago, it was neutral ground—stringently-enforced neutral ground, which made it a great place to hold interviews and consultations. Assuming, of course, I ever got around to having any.

The crime lord known as “Gentleman” Johnny Marcone didn’t have a listed number; shocking, I know. Truthfully, I’d have preferred to avoid dealing with the man anyway, but he was a reasonable devil to make a deal with, if I absolutely had to. He’d brought violent crimes within the city down to an absolute minimum, had strict rules against harming children, kept his word when he gave it, and by now he was looking into augmenting his security against supernatural foes.

I figured that as long as I had something to offer him, I could probably get away with asking for his help. And since I knew a secret he would kill to keep, I could think of at least one offer I could make—but phrasing it so I’d live long enough to do that might be a problem.

But while both Murphy and Marcone might be useful, they had limitations, not least of which being that they were both cynics. Murphy was the safer option, but convincing her that had a genuine need for her help would take time I couldn’t afford. Marcone wouldn’t necessarily care, so long as I paid him for his time and resources spent, but his price would be correspondingly high.

They were also both humans; plain, vanilla mortals in Dresdenverse parlance, and that came with its own set of limitations in this kind of situation. The supernatural in the Dresdenverse relied on a certain willful blindness among humanity in order to stay hidden, but neither did they go out of their way to attract mortal attention. That was as a whole, though; individually, it was the rare mortal who could match most supernatural creatures and live to tell the tale.

What I needed, basically, was one of those. Fortunately, I knew a few names, and of one in particular that might be willing to help me simply because I’d asked.

He was in the phonebook, too (which was a bit surprising, until I considered his security package), but I thought that showing up at his house might be a bad idea. Not when there was somewhere else relatively peaceful and secure I could meet him—and ask for an introduction through an intermediary, in the process.

It was time to go to church.

[hatori]

ooh goody

[Kieran]

I thought you might like this one.

. . . I admit, I got the general concept from a thread on Spacebattles - "Which Craft" - though it's taken in an entirely different direction.

[Xamusel]

Ugh... why, oh why, must I be such an ignoramus? I was hoping to get back to this after getting some work done on my entry in the setting... this is not my year, is it, guys?

Well, just thought I'd give a status update about my stuff. I'm pretty far behind on this one... sadly. I hate being distracted by multiple projects at once.

Still, I'll be sure to upload the origin story for Kyou here, first... to make sure I don't screw up. I'd say "give me a couple days to finish this", but I honestly need more, if possible.

[Xamusel]

Ugh... why did I have to make that annoying (to me) declaration? I need to get off my butt to get it done, I know, but I have so many other things on my plate... like working on an original book series.

Speaking of which: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

That's an excerpt from the prologue. Hope you guys can give me input on it.

[Kieran]

. . . Offhand, I'd say the only major problem is that you're reaching too far; more specifically, the setup seems unnecessarily elaborate. Trying scaling it back somewhat.

[Xamusel]

Oh, brother... how do you suggest I do that, then?

[Kieran]

I'll send it as a PM, so it doesn't feel like a public dressing-down, if that's OK.

[Xamusel]

...okay, perhaps I should've been more specific. That's an excerpt from the original book series' prologue, guys. Sorry about the confusion.

[Kieran]

. . . Why yes - I am still working on this project; if only in my head, for the moment. I am just so close to finishing Trinity . . .

Anyways, an idea has occurred to me, and I wanted to run it by everyone - that it would make more sense to set up (or at least move, to avoid a truly tedious amount of rewrites) the Works base of operations to the Moon Cell.

Going by the events of Fate-Extella, it is a Holy Grail (of sorts), and the state of Ilya makes a bit more sense, that way: she would be materialised in the cyberspace of SE.RA.PH, but lack a physical presence of her own. She would also be operating as the Moon Cell Sys-Admin while leaving the system itself autonomous, much like Archimedes. Given the state of Earth and magic, it might have no Umbral Star presence (or need for a Regalia), but obviously it would go to Shirou.

I was just considering it, because it would allow for pretty much everything that has already been set up in the Works, but be a bit more canon-compliant. I would interested to hear your thoughts.

[Xamusel]

Sounds good to me... now if only I could find playthroughs of the game.

[Vigilantia]

. . . Why yes - I am still working on this project; if only in my head, for the moment. I am just so close to finishing Trinity . . .

Anyways, an idea has occurred to me, and I wanted to run it by everyone - that it would make more sense to set up (or at least move, to avoid a truly tedious amount of rewrites) the Works base of operations to the Moon Cell.

Going by the events of Fate-Extella, it is a Holy Grail (of sorts), and the state of Ilya makes a bit more sense, that way: she would be materialised in the cyberspace of SE.RA.PH, but lack a physical presence of her own. She would also be operating as the Moon Cell Sys-Admin while leaving the system itself autonomous, much like Archimedes. Given the state of Earth and magic, it might have no Umbral Star presence (or need for a Regalia), but obviously it would go to Shirou.

I was just considering it, because it would allow for pretty much everything that has already been set up in the Works, but be a bit more canon-compliant. I would interested to hear your thoughts.

I've literally got no intel on Extella. Isn't it not released in English yet? All I know is its a continuation of Fate/Extra where Nero was chosen as canon.

That might also be a problem with other authors given how sparse information is. i.e. whats an Umbral Star? How does a sysAdmin work compared to Archimedes? Regalia?

In any case, wasn't the moon cell basically a computer and everything is virtualized? Meaning there really isn't much physically on the moon? That part of Fate/Extra was always confusing :/

All of it would be basically in VR wouldn't it?
Cheers, luv! The Tracer/Saber pairings are here!

[Kieran]

Sounds good to me... now if only I could find playthroughs of the game.

It's not hard, but as I recall, direct-linking to that sort of thing is against the forum rules, so I'm afraid I'm limited in how I can help . . .

I've literally got no intel on Extella. Isn't it not released in English yet?

Actually, it's been out for a month or so.

All I know is its a continuation of Fate/Extra where Nero was chosen as canon.

This is mostly true . . .

That might also be a problem with other authors given how sparse information is. i.e. whats an Umbral Star? How does a sysAdmin work compared to Archimedes? Regalia?

In order (and I hope I'm giving enough information while keeping things spoiler-lite/free:

1) The Umbral Star is the bad guy, where the game is concerned; and not relevant unless an author or authors choose to make it so - which would more or less require bringing in this Servant. So long as no one does, it really doesn't have to matter.

2) The Sys-Admin (in the game, the Caster-class Servant, Archimedes) is responsible for oversight and maintenance of the Moon Cell's systems. Their authority is second only to that of the Regalia wielder, but their actual knowledge is likely broader - basically, think Merlin to the Regalia-wielder's King Arthur. In this case, Ilya would fill that role . . . Although if so, she might question why her Cyber Frame (avatar) looks like this.

. . . In short, though, it's basically nothing Ilya's not already doing, or capable of - it's just a canon-compliant(-ish) reason for it.


As for the Regalia itself, it's a ring that's "the symbol of the Moon Cell's Royal Authority," marking its bearer (be they Servant or Master) as the "Sovereign of the Moon Cell." In practice, it allows for something akin to administrator access, and actual lets the Master astralise (into it) as a protective feature, allowing the Servant wearing it to act freely without fear of anybody taking a cheap shot. It also has the ability to access the Moon Cell's full power, briefly, as an offensive measure.

It was designed as the Moon Cell's countermeasure against the Umbral Star - but again, isn't really necessary.

In any case, wasn't the moon cell basically a computer and everything is virtualized? Meaning there really isn't much physically on the moon? That part of Fate/Extra was always confusing :/

All of it would be basically in VR wouldn't it?

This is true (more or less); however, the explanation given involves "spiritrons," which is a concept Fate/Grand Order revisits as the reason for their ability to time-travel: they "rayshift" themselves into spiritrons, project those back into the past, and rematerialize.

. . . Granted, it's a projection a la James Cameron's "Avatar" - they apparently leave their true bodies in stasis - but given that that's accomplished by a device far less powerful than the Moon Cell, I'd argue that total ray-shifting is possible. In fact, the Extella game implies it by stating that a Cyber Frame (avatar) requires a Body, Mind and Soul to be considered complete; from the game's events, the digital avatar itself is not considered the Body in question.

. . . In any case, as I said - it's an idea to make the Works a bit more canon-compliant; I'm not firmly attached to it, but I thought it was worth discussing.

Cheers, luv! The Tracer/Saber pairings are here!

. . . And I'm afraid I have no idea what you mean.

[Vigilantia]

Oh, it is released in English, color me suprised. Anyways, my head hurt strying to figure out how all this regalia fits into this timetraveling positrons stuff. So let's go with the more relevent questions because me finishing Extella at my current rate of free time will take a full year (can't even bloody finish my Overwatch dailies let alone write nowadays):

What's the GW going to look like, where's it going to be, how's our current cast going to be affected in comparison to their current selves, and are all GW going to need a VR headset to get into the GW because that's gonna be weird....

[Kieran]

Oh, it is released in English, color me suprised.

Me, too - but I'm not complaining.

Anyways, my head hurt strying to figure out how all this regalia fits into this timetraveling positrons stuff.

As noted, the Regalia is more or less irrelevant, unless someone actually wants to write a run-through of the game. The spiritron nature is a bit more important, but otherwise, not much will actually change, I think.

So let's go with the more relevent questions because me finishing Extella at my current rate of free time will take a full year (can't even bloody finish my Overwatch dailies let alone write nowadays):

What's the GW going to look like, where's it going to be, how's our current cast going to be affected in comparison to their current selves, and are all GW going to need a VR headset to get into the GW because that's gonna be weird....

The Moon Cell is capable of generating an entire world, more or less; at the very least, cities (Nero had a Roman-style capital, Tamamo went for a more traditional Japanese city style). It can undoubtedly replicate Fuyuki, or anywhere else they'd prefer to be. And while digital in origin, the experience is essentially real; there's food, water, day/night cycles, smells . . . The Works, if you'll pardon the pun.

I essentially see them as rayshifting in and out for missions - it's no less capable of the Second Magic than the actual Holy Grail (in fact, that's something of a plot point in the game: that the Moon Cell is capable of, and does, monitor multiple potential realities at once). So, save for Ilya, anyone can leave, if they wish - and I'm placing that limitation both because of her "admin" status, and because there's nothing left of her actual body to rayshift (a limitation that comes up in Fate/Grand Order).

The only real difference is that, through the Moon Cell, Ilya can summon virtually any Heroic Spirit from the Throne (though they will need Masters to maintain them); the Anti-Heroes are stored in a separate area on the Far Side of the Moon (Tsukihime reference!), and so's Gilgamesh.

The exception would be the Saber, Altera - if she's used, then she's in the Zero Dark, a quarantine area that's physically cut off from the rest of the Moon Cell . . . But, again, unless somebody actually wants to write that bit . . . *Shrugs*

. . . Like I said, basically, nothing changes beyond where they're based becoming a more canon-compliant source - and having a broader potential character base.

[Vigilantia]

So what, it's like a holodeck and a replicator combined into one? Wait, can I take a steak from the Moon Cell and then eat it in another universe?

Also, I'm kinda hinky on Servant generation via stasis. It kinda makes it more difficult to care if the servant is removed from true danger (so to speak) because its just a clone. Sacrifice and real danger and all that. Its less apparent in FSN or Extella maybe, but if we have a continue story/universe, the fact summoned servants can't really die makes their deaths/dangers feel cheap. I'm still not completely sure how this rayshifting works between universes. Is it just teleportation?

[pureauthor]

I have no issues, but everyone packing up and moving will most likely need to be a story in and of itself.

[Kieran]

So what, it's like a holodeck and a replicator combined into one? Wait, can I take a steak from the Moon Cell and then eat it in another universe?

Anything the Moon Cell's scanned, theoretically; in practice, I'd say limit it to common/mundane items. So steak, yes - a dozen Excaliburs, no. The Moon Cell's power, while significant, is still finite, and a lot of it is tied up in scanning and cataloguing the Earth, and maintaining SE.RA.PH. This means the team will still have to go hunting external energy resources to use its "Grail" function without putting undue stress on the system.

Also, I'm kinda hinky on Servant generation via stasis. It kinda makes it more difficult to care if the servant is removed from true danger (so to speak) because its just a clone. Sacrifice and real danger and all that. Its less apparent in FSN or Extella maybe, but if we have a continue story/universe, the fact summoned servants can't really die makes their deaths/dangers feel cheap.

As the game explains it, when the Moon Cell does is access the Throne of Heroes, much like the standard Holy Grail does - so when I said "stored," I really meant the data for them, the records themselves.

As for the rest . . . Like I said, they still need a Master to manifest, so it's basically no different than what we were looking at before, having other Servants as characters.

I'm still not completely sure how this rayshifting works between universes. Is it just teleportation?

From the little the Grand Order special talks about the process, combination teleportation/digitisation. With the added bonus that it's not limited to one point in time - they can project themselves to any trouble spots (Fuyuki in 2004 in the special, but basically any point in the game - which includes London 1888, Camelot, and ancient Babylon, among others).

So effectively, it's just a technical basis (meaning an actual explanation) for Ilya's already-shown Door mechanism.

I have no issues, but everyone packing up and moving will most likely need to be a story in and of itself.

Well, actually, I was considering (in lieu of the "Reign of Winter" storyline) having one of the Seldarine transport Kurai to the Moon Cell - under the assumption that the Works would be able to locate and retrieve him - whereupon he gets involved with the Holy Grail War there . . .

The only real problem I'm having is in deciding whether the Servant he ends up with is Nero ("Arturia is going to kill me . . .") or Elizabeth (". . . Seriously?!").