The Millennium War: I bid you welcome to Castle Brunestund (discussion thread)

[Ergast]

...No. Dracula can't die for good, or is very hard to do so, but that is not a measure of his power. That's more like a Conceptual Weapon or inherent ability than a measure of his power levels. Calling Dracula as powerful as Crimson Moon is very misleading. Dracula is nowhere near being a TYPE.

He is called literally the strongest being in Earth. In raw power he is stronger than anything.

Consider me fooled.

Also, regular gear being worthless against Dracula has no precedence that I can recall. The Vampire Killer is very effective, but that doesn't mean mundane weapons are worthless. I certainly don't recall any story details that say as much, and considering that every protagonist to stuffed full of subweapons like axes, knives, and a few holy talismans, I'm not convinced Dracula is 'in story' immune to mundane weapons. He certainly isn't in gameplay.

I don't remember where, but it was stated that the only things that really damages Dracula are powerful magic and the Vampire Killer, and almost all the vampire hunters in the series (except Shanoa from Order of Ecclessia and maybe Charlotte from Portrait of Ruin) are related to some degree to the Belmonts. Usually the subweapons are imbued with the energy of the user, and when the characters begun to use other weapons besides the vampire killer, either the weapon is magical and really powerful (the Alucard Spear) or the guy is really powerful (Alucard, Soma, Jonathan Morris)

*headdesk*

My point is that while they have credible ways to hurt him, Dracula is not so overwhelmingly powerful that they are as ants before him. He might toy with them at first, but he eventually pulls out all the stops and he still loses.

As for non Belmonts, I wasn't thinking people related to Dracula. I was thinking people like Maria from Rondo of Blood and Symphony of the Night. For the record, Maria can beat Dracula in Rondo of Blood and she's still a child. I can't even call her a joke character, because when she returns in Symphony of the Night she's still a threat to Alucard in battle.

Maria Renard is as powerful as some of the most powerful Belmonts. It's like saying that Shanoa is dangerous towards Dracula. In fact, Maria is stronger than Shanoa in sheer power. Shanoa is just more versatil.

Moreover, the Vampire Killer left the possession of the Belmont's after Richter, and other non Belmonts used it. Even though it gobbled up their life to use it, they still beat Dracula. I'd have to do research, but I'm nearly certain that non Belmonts have successfully killed Dracula without the Vampire Killer. One guy had Alucard's Spear, I think. They might have also had the Vampire Killer, but in one game it starts out piss weak and the main character has to beat the memory of Richter to unlock its full strength. They can still beat Dracula without its full strength, but I can't guarantee that the True End is acquired.

So yeah. Lots of non-Belmonts that have kicked Dracula's ass. Dracula may be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to permanently kill, but he is not someone I'd consider equal to Crimson Moon. Not without more evidence.

I don't remember why the Belmonts dissapeared after Ritcher till Julius Belmont finally kicked Dracula's ass, but the guy you mentioned is Jonathan Morris, a distant family of the Belmonts, almost as powerful as them and trained since he was a child to fight vampires. And he has Charlotte Aulin's help, and she is one of the strongest magicians ever. The guy with the Alucard Spear is possibly related to Alucard and the spear is a strong magical weapon, almost at the level or at the level of the Vampire Killer.

To be fair, everyone who bested Dracula in the Castlevania's saga would qualify as a Legendary Soul in the Nasuverse. At least, powerwise.

[Bloble]

...Now I want to make a character sheet for Simon Belmont, Alucard or Soma Cruz.

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

He is called literally the strongest being in Earth. In raw power he is stronger than anything.

Seriously? Where did the games say that?

I don't remember where, but it was stated that the only things that really damages Dracula are powerful magic and the Vampire Killer, and almost all the vampire hunters in the series (except Shanoa from Order of Ecclessia and maybe Charlotte from Portrait of Ruin) are related to some degree to the Belmonts.

That's another thing I don't remember. But yeah, the writers are really bad about making everyone relevant some offshoot of the Belmonts, now that I think about it. Even if it means shoving games into non-canon...

Usually the subweapons are imbued with the energy of the user, and when the characters begun to use other weapons besides the vampire killer, either the weapon is magical and really powerful (the Alucard Spear) or the guy is really powerful (Alucard, Soma, Jonathan Morris)

I'm not sure some of those details are explicit, but it's been a while since I cracked open the manuals.

Maria Renard is as powerful as some of the most powerful Belmonts. It's like saying that Shanoa is dangerous towards Dracula. In fact, Maria is stronger than Shanoa in sheer power. Shanoa is just more versatil.

I never said Maria was weak. But until someone said in an interview that Maria is an offshoot of the Belmonts, she's pretty much proof that a non-Belmont can kick Dracula's ass. A weakling can't win, but you don't need to be a Belmont or have the Vampire Killer to achieve victory. And frankly, the fact that Dracula can be beaten by such a wide variety of people tells me that while he may be unkillable, he's really not all that powerful. He has Dominance and that gives him an army of dark creatures, but he doesn't have overwhelming power.

I don't remember why the Belmonts dissapeared after Ritcher till Julius Belmont finally kicked Dracula's ass,

I think the fanon theory is that the Belmonts were tainted after Richter.

but the guy you mentioned is Jonathan Morris, a distant family of the Belmonts, almost as powerful as them and trained since he was a child to fight vampires. And he has Charlotte Aulin's help, and she is one of the strongest magicians ever. The guy with the Alucard Spear is possibly related to Alucard and the spear is a strong magical weapon, almost at the level or at the level of the Vampire Killer.

Eh. Fair enough.

To be fair, everyone who bested Dracula in the Castlevania's saga would qualify as a Legendary Soul in the Nasuverse. At least, powerwise.

Yeah....and forget Simon. Simon isn't even the first belmont to beat Dracula!

Not since the prequels anyways. Still, Richter and Julius are the strongest Belmonts I believe and oh man does it show. Richter has the Belmont Pimp Walk down to an art, holy fuck is Julius fast, and Soma's just a fucking beast.

Actually, when Soma fights, the only reason he one is because Julius was barely even trying. A serious Julius in his prime would have to be terrifying.

[lantzblades]

Seriously? Where did the games say that?

well it makes sense although I myself am confused where it comes from.

I never said Maria was weak. But until someone said in an interview that Maria is an offshoot of the Belmonts, she's pretty much proof that a non-Belmont can kick Dracula's ass.

aw come on hymn, she's using the powers of four gods. I think that's a wee bit harsh to say she's proof that drac is a pussy.

I think the fanon theory is that the Belmonts were tainted after Richter.

given that Simon was curse by drac himself at one point that theory does hold some weight.

Still, Richter and Julius are the strongest Belmonts I believe

much as i hate the 3d games i have to disagree with you there, leon has to be the strongest (oh god i can't believe i had to type that, unclean)

Soma's just a fucking beast.

fan wank ugh.

he's reincarnated dracula i get it, but he's hella broken in HOD and that makes me a sad Alucard

...Now I want to make a character sheet for Simon Belmont, Alucard or Soma Cruz.

save them bro, i'll be done tinkering with an rp system based on extra soon.

[Bloble]

save them bro, i'll be done tinkering with an rp system based on extra soon.

I can't wait for it, but dude, are you sure you can handle writing a fic and GMing at the same time? I find just writing fanfiction to be hard enough personally...

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

well it makes sense although I myself am confused where it comes from.

Agreed. Short of God there's not really a known runner-up. Maybe Death if he wasn't bound to Dracula.

aw come on hymn, she's using the powers of four gods. I think that's a wee bit harsh to say she's proof that drac is a pussy.

Oh hell no. Four gods my ass. Castlevania's used predominantly Christian themes and imagery and I'm not bringing Eastern religions into it and going the extra mile to call it real in the games. My biggest complaint with the Sorrows games is the heavy Japanese religion shoved in. Soma being a Japanese student and Castlevania suddenly showing up in Japan made my grind my teeth.

Legendary creatures, sure, we already got them on Team Evil. Bonafide Eastern deities? Hell. No. GTFO.

much as i hate the 3d games i have to disagree with you there, leon has to be the strongest (oh god i can't believe i had to type that, unclean)

Actually, I think this Richter and Julius being the strongest is canon. I just can't remember where I found the source...

fan wank ugh.

he's reincarnated dracula i get it, but he's hella broken in HOD and that makes me a sad Alucard

Actually I was thinking he has a truly absurd arsenal of offensive, defensive, and support techniques. Black Panther is so much goddamn fun...

And I've never played HOD. My opinion is strictly based on how many powers Soma has in the Sorrow games. If Dracula made use of that kind of versatility he'd have been way more dangerous.

[Bloble]

Actually, I think this Richter and Julius being the strongest is canon. I just can't remember where I found the source...

Well, I don't know about Richter, but wasn't Julius the dude who a) killed Dracula once and for all in 1999, and b) did the same almost 40 years later when fighting against Dracula possessed Soma (not sure if canon). Oh, and c) killed bosses that are impossible to kill without magic seals, without magic seals, something that pretty much defies all game mechanics.

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

Well, I don't know about Richter, but wasn't Julius the dude who a) killed Dracula once and for all in 1999, and b) did the same almost 40 years later when fighting against Dracula possessed Soma (not sure if canon). Oh, and c) killed bosses that are impossible to kill without magic seals, without magic seals, something that pretty much defies all game mechanics.

Yep, that's him. After the Vampire Killer was out of the Belmont's possession for a few hundred years, Julius is the one to pick it up and kick enormous ass with it.

After the first time he beat Dracula, he lost his memory. He only started remembering who he was in his sixties in the middle of Castlevania. That's still more than enough to give Soma the fight of his life.

Also, first game, Julius has unlimited super jump the renders Julius invincible and damages enemies. I used it to wtfpwn a boss. Didn't even need the whip. Second game, he 'merely' has a triple jump. The man's Agility Stat would be insane.

[Ergast]

Errr, no. Soma has the potential to be as strong as Dracula. That's not fanon. He has more raw power than Alucard without being maxed, and even if Julius didn't fought him at 100%, he is still the strongest Belmont (maybe he draw with Ritcher), and Soma won that fight. Alucard at the very least is at the level of Julius. In Dawn of Sorrow Alucard is beaten (okay, with his powers sealed, but still) while Soma destroys the bad guy. In fact, in DoS, if we follow the bad end, the good guys need Julius Belmont, Yoko Belnades and Alucard to try and defeat Dark Lord Soma. So yes, Soma is a beast, the strongest canon main character. Alucard is the second, though.

Leon is strong, but the lore says that Ritcher and Julius are the strongest Belmonts.

About the Dracula thing about being the strongest... its implicitly(sp?) said in Order of Ecclessia (or maybe Dawn of Sorrow). Something about being the opposed to God.

[lantzblades]

I can't wait for it, but dude, are you sure you can handle writing a fic and GMing at the same time? I find just writing fanfiction to be hard enough personally...

the game is designed with the board, it's users and my time constraints in mind.

GMing is Easy for me.

Legendary creatures

that is what's she's using, she draws on the power of their mortal existences.

Actually, I think this Richter and Julius being the strongest is canon. I just can't remember where I found the source...

Julius I buy but I have to say Simon was way stronger then ric. he's a great guy but Simon hauled his ass across Europe while curse and though castlevania fought death and then killed drac dispelling the curse.

And I've never played HOD. My opinion is strictly based on how many powers Soma has in the Sorrow games. If Dracula made use of that kind of versatility he'd have been way more dangerous.

thing is he kinda wrecks Als position in the game and at the same time is a glitch gremlin.

[Bloble]

I seem to recall that in DoS Alucard with sealed powers was beaten because Dimitrii used some kind of flow reversing trick to temporarily disable him.

And in DoS the cult said for there to be ultimate good there has to be ultimate evil as well which is why they're trying to summon Dracula (again).

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

Errr, no. Soma has the potential to be as strong as Dracula. That's not fanon. He has more raw power than Alucard without being maxed, and even if Julius didn't fought him at 100%, he is still the strongest Belmont (maybe he draw with Ritcher), and Soma won that fight.

To be fair, Julius was holding back. Soma notes that the power of a Belmont, or just a vampire hunter, was greater than what Julius displayed. Julius couldn't fight seriously because he knew Soma was still in there.

Still didn't stop Julius from giving one hell of a fight.

Also, I like to think of 'the power of a Belmont, no, the power of a vampire hunter is greater than this' is just the writers trying to sell Julius' real skill. Because Julius is the hardest boss in the game bar none. His Holy Affinity really doesn't help.

Alucard at the very least is at the level of Julius. In Dawn of Sorrow Alucard is beaten (okay, with his powers sealed, but still)

Ugh. I called that bad writing too. Sealing Alucard's powers because some jack-off copied Dominance and siphoned friggin' Alucard's power. It's a good enough explanation to work, but not good enough to avoid triggering bullshit alarms.

while Soma destroys the bad guy. In fact, in DoS, if we follow the bad end, the good guys need Julius Belmont, Yoko Belnades and Alucard to try and defeat Dark Lord Soma. So yes, Soma is a beast, the strongest canon main character. Alucard is the second, though.

I think I'd actually argue that Julius may be Alucard's equal. Maybe not in his old age, but a young Julius in his prime? Quite possibly. That's something to keep in mind if someone wants to draw up Servants Stats for Julius. He is old and out of practice in Aria, better but older in Dawn, but he's still kicking ass.

About the Dracula thing about being the strongest... its implicitly(sp?) said in Order of Ecclessia (or maybe Dawn of Sorrow). Something about being the opposed to God.

Oh God I remember. That pile the Sorrow series shoveled about if God is perfectly good, then there must also be someone perfectly evil, but it doesn't need to be Soma. Seriously, it makes me want to cry when I consider the earlier Castlevania lore. God damn it Japan, keep your dualism out of Castlevania! You are undermining Dracula's character!

Also, Dawn of Sorrow's artwork and opening animation is wretched and I want to kill it. That is all.

that is what's she's using, she draws on the power of their mortal existences.

If you're implying there's immortal aspects of them, NO.

I seem to recall that in DoS Alucard with sealed powers was beaten because Dimitrii used some kind of flow reversing trick to temporarily disable him.

And in DoS the cult said for there to be ultimate good there has to be ultimate evil as well which is why they're trying to summon Dracula (again).

*sighs*

Ye~ep, that's the size of it.

If Sorrow's gameplay wasn't so mind bogglingly fun I would loath for its story contributions and scream that it be non-canon.

[lantzblades]

If you're implying there's immortal aspects of them, NO.

well one of them is a phoenix so their kinda of is. I mean that whole reborn eternally from fire and all that.

as to the castlevania pl discussion. I hate to say it but it is off topic at this point. so make a thread in the games section or such to discuss it please.

[lantzblades]

hmm, alright guys, I've been tweaking some stuff and I find myself at a loss for power ups for the main group. particularly Rin since I think the jewelled sword is a bit over used. anyone got a good substitute?

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

hmm, alright guys, I've been tweaking some stuff and I find myself at a loss for power ups for the main group. particularly Rin since I think the jewelled sword is a bit over used. anyone got a good substitute?

Jewel Knuckles from Castlevania? They were a good, fast, and reliable melee weapon back in Symphony of the Night (but without a special attack) and may compliment Rin well. Maybe you can justify Rin being able to put passive enchantments on it. Or she realizes the weapon already has passive enchantments to be so good, eventually, reverse engineers them, and improves them.

[lantzblades]

Jewel Knuckles from Castlevania?

I'm facepalming right now, not because that idea is bad but rather because it's good and I already use the idea of such a weapon in another work but completely forgot about it.

well that works for Rin, I need Kiritsugu and Hisui figured out still though.

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

Kiritsugu, Stopwatch, Agunea subweapon, and a ghost familiar for scouting. All Symphony of the Night.

I'd have to think more of Hisui.

[VelspertheCat]

Hisui can get the Persephone soul. Her attacks drain vitality and heal her. (reverse the polarity on that Synchronizer ability)

[Hymn of Ragnarok]

Hisui can get the Persephone soul. Her attacks drain vitality and heal her. (reverse the polarity on that Synchronizer ability)

Succubus Soul for Akiha?

[lantzblades]

Kiritsugu, Stopwatch

obvious but hey it makes sense and stops the strain on Kiritsugu's body.

Agunea subweapon, and a ghost familiar for scouting.

no and, hmm no I think i want to leave the familiar's bit to the three seriously capable in the group.

Hisui can get the Persephone soul. Her attacks drain vitality and heal her. (reverse the polarity on that Synchronizer ability)

interesting idea...

Succubus Soul for Akiha?

Actually I have other Ideas for her.