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Thread: Fate/Apocrypha Translation (no spoilers)

  1. #1181
    Dapper Deathwing YeOfLittleFaith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
    Not really. Just because his skills are unaffected, doesn't mean his tactical mind isn't. And his ability to change forms seems like a really good NP, depending on speed of transition he might be able to pull of some pretty cool shit.
    I think it's stated he'd outright be able to pretend to be the other servants if he wasn't insane. As it was, Kariya had to use a Command Seal just to make him replicated Rider's appearance.

    And yeah, Kariya was a pretty good Master, if crappy magus, allowing Berserker Lancelot to fight to the best of his potential. He wouldn't have been able to end unscathed from Gate Of Babylon otherwise. And he had pretty good reserves, logic states, since even though he was constantly being drained by the worms he managed to sustain Berserker for quite a while.

    Agreed on the Saber Lancelot claims. A sound tactical mind, full use of his identity/appearance concealing and altering NP, and the added magic resistance would've likely made it more worth it to summon him as Saber.
    Zouken is just an evil bastard who wanted Kariya to suffer.



    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
    Not my fault Shirou is an awesome bro to lesbians.

  2. #1182
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors BlackField's Avatar
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    I think he would've been able to get out of the sword rain unscathed even if his stats were lower, he just wouldn't have been able to do the whole grab NPs out of the air and swing them back deal. Saber was said to be able to dodge 18NPs in UBW, without harm, and she could deal with 32NPs in fate with only moderate damage, I don't think Lancelot would do worse than that.

    I would be interested in if "For Someone's Glory" would be like an instant action spell. If it was, he could possibly do stuff like switch to a baby to dodge attacks then become a tall lanky man to do other attacks. It would be pretty ridiculous.
    Last edited by BlackField; May 20th, 2013 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #1183
    Dapper Deathwing YeOfLittleFaith's Avatar
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    Yeah, some people tend to forget Saber was actually facing GoB without backing down or taking noticeable damage at the last night of Fate. Which says a lot about Saber. Even under Shirou she could do that.
    She has Instinct though, which probably has something to do with how she managed it. Which Lancelot doesn't. That said, I do agree that he probably would've been able to evade GoB NP rain even without the ME stat boost, but not grab weapons out of the air like he did. But without the stat boost, larger amounts of NPs raining down could've meant bad news for him.

    And if he could do that, it'd be pretty ridiculous. xD



    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
    Not my fault Shirou is an awesome bro to lesbians.

  4. #1184
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors BlackField's Avatar
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    Lancelot does have higher luck(protection of the fairies) and agility, I think that'd make up for the lack of instinct. And with Arondight out, his stats go even higher and his saving throw rate doubles. He might just do better than Saber anyway, even if he was in the Saber class, against GoB.

  5. #1185
    祖 Ancestor Black Sword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Look, I know downwanking Saber is uber cool on this forum, but come on. Up to the point where he takes off his helmet and reveals his identity she is winning. He can't land a shot on her with his SMGs and she manages to strike him in the head. He only survived because the distance between them was too big for Excalibur to do more than just graze him - if she were one foot closer he would have lost his head right then and there.
    And even after he draws Arondight and goes full force on her, and she goes all emo and is just blocking his blows to defend herself, he still can't kill her, the battle goes on and on and Lancelot eventually drains all of his mana.

    Lancelot might be a better warrior overall because he has mastered every weapon there is, but Arturia is certainly a better swordsman and would not lose to him unless it's a battle in which she has to use some other weapon.
    It's not downwanking, it's canon.

    Fate/zero Saber vs Berserker (final)

    The two machine guns were not in any way inferior to the black knight‘s angry howl; screeching
    hotly, they attacked Saber. The bullets, faster than the speed of sound, were still unable to
    surpass the speed of Saber‘s sword. Nevertheless, the speed of twenty-odd bullets per second left
    her only able to parry.


    Saber was so restricted by the curtain of bullets that she could not close in; she looked around in
    search of a method by which she could return from certain defeat. Then, she saw a small truck
    parked in a lot at the corner of the car park.

    [text]


    On Saber‘s side, because of the blocking shield, she too could not directly see her target. Even
    though she had indeed scored a hit on the other by relying on her intuition to attack, she had
    ultimately not been lucky enough to score a critical hit in that blow. The front part of Invisible
    Air, though it had accurately made contact with the center of the forehead of the black helmet, it
    had been unable to smash the skull inside.


    The outside of the truck was subject to a heavy rain of bullets, and its inside had been pierced by
    a sword; this time it finally broke into two pieces. Although Berserker had not received a fatal
    wound, the fierce attack to his face made him stagger backward and left him unable to recover
    for a short moment. That was time enough for a follow-up attack. Now the scales of victory were
    tipped toward Saber.


    Saber kicked aside the burning vehicle wreckage and lifted her sword high into an upward stance.
    This time, she would definitely not let him off. She aimed at the top of Berserker‘s defenseless
    head and gambled victory on the following direct attack.


    The stance, speed, and timing were all perfect. It was a strike worthy of the name of the swordwielding
    Heroic Spirit, enough to make one believe that the outcome had been decided—
    precisely for this reason, the instant when Saber‘s sword was stopped in midair was especially
    surprising.


    Berserker threw away the machine guns, trapping the blade of Invisible Air between his bare
    hands before her eyes. That consummate skill was unbelievable on two counts: the first was that
    he had used an impossible stance to respond to Saber‘s follow-up killing blow, and the second
    was that he had done so even though it was impossible to perceive the path of Invisible Air. But
    the Black Knight had grabbed the white blade with his bare hands to seal Saber‘s attack as if he
    had known every detail of Saber‘s sword, from the shape to the length, like the back of his hand.


    [text]


    The strongest sword-wielding Servant? Who had fabricated this? —Now she was like a small
    boat in a storm. Facing Berserker‘s waving black sword, she could only give up resistance and
    suffer the attack; she could not even make a single decent retaliatory blow. She did not even feel
    indignant at this. Her heart, immersed in hopelessness, had long since become devoid of all
    fighting spirit. She was no longer the heroic King of Knights that was named the incarnation of
    the dragon. This was truly too tragic; it made one sigh.


    But she could not win. Facing that man, that sword, there was no way to obtain victory.


    He had been the unrivalled 'perfect knight' admired by the masses; he had been a flower that
    bloomed on the precipitous peak of the way of the knight. His form and his actions had once
    been the greatest treasure of all who had the ambition of becoming a knight.


    I didn't paste the entire fight, but Saber herself acknowledges he is stronger than her not only then but in life. She's the King of Knights, yet he is the "unrivaled perfect knight." There was one point in the fight when she was close to winning, but she failed her luck roll and wasn't able to deliver the final blow. Even when Lancelot was open and she performed a flawless finishing attack, he blocked it. This is Saber, the same hero who required two Noble Phantasms (Rho Aius and Bellerophon) deployed at the same time in order to lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    That thread has simultaneously respawned my disgust for 4chan, and ripped away some of what little hope I have left for humanity.

    Was still hilarious, though.
    The first time I was overwhelmed by anime cuteness
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sword View Post

    Oh my God they look like adorable kittens I want to take them home with me!

  6. #1186
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors BlackField's Avatar
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    Man, Black Sword you could be the only one to interpret it that way.

    Saber was clearly winning prior to him revealing his identity. He uses 2 smgs, causes no damage and then she breaks his helmet. After the revealing of identity and using Arondight, Saber completely lost to the will to fight. So you can't say much from that, except for the fact a completely hopeless person held off a person who was going at it as hard as they could.

    Anyway you look at it, Lancelot threw everything he had at Saber and Saber held him off and in the process caused more damage to him than he did to her. The terminology does seem to suggest that Lancelot is the overall superior swordsman though, what with the whole "Even if Saber had been uninjured right now, she might not have been able to withstand that strong momentum" part but yeah, Lancelot was definitely far from winning that fight.

  7. #1187
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Polly's Avatar
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    What BlackField said, for the most part. The "The strongest sword-wielding Servant? Who had fabricated this?" part can also validly be interpreted as a third-person narration of Saber's own despairing thoughts, rather than as an objective statement of an omniscient narrator. In fact, it makes more sense, considering the narrative and the context.
    "I'm supposed to be the strongest swordsman? Who the fuck fabricated that?!" /angst mode.

    And like I said, Lancelot is a better warrior overall because he can beat the crap out of his opponents using only a tree branch, but Arturia is a better swordsman. He couldn't beat her in a swordfight in a situation where he has not only the ME boost, but also a boost from using Arondight and she's going all emo and merely blocking/parrying his blows.
    Last edited by Polly; May 21st, 2013 at 10:24 AM.
    My attempts at being a (fanfic) writer:

    Eclipse - a Saber Alter oneshot
    Requiem for a Race - Altrouge and Ortenrosse hunt the TAs ( 1/3 chapters, discontinued )
    Memories of a King - a 'Saber Origins' story ( 8/? chapters, discontiuned )
    A Small Warmth - a post UBW-Good oneshot, Saber/Rin
    Devil's Thrill - Narbareck hunts down a DAA Blackmore ( 10/10 chapters, finished )
    Boundary of Loneliness - Ryougi Shiki/Alphard Al-Shua oneshot. Lemon-flavoured

  8. #1188
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors BlackField's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I read it as Lancelot being the inferior swordsman. Its evident that he's considered the superior swordsman by the story but he didn't win that fight.

    This was truly too tragic; it made one sigh.
    WTF Urobuchi, thanks for ruining all immersion. The fight is from Saber's perspective and then that line.
    Last edited by BlackField; May 21st, 2013 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #1189
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Polly's Avatar
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    He didn't win any fights. Iskandar only won against Assassin. Gilgamesh lost to Lancelot ( kinda ) and in Fate to Saber ( who apparently sucks ). Lancer committed suicide. Assassins... enough said. Basically, they ALL suck. Only Gilles is the true boss.

    Anyways, Nasu repeatedly states that Arturia is the strongest Saber-class Servant. Then Gen comes and wanks Lancelot. It's up to the reader to decide who they want to wank.
    My attempts at being a (fanfic) writer:

    Eclipse - a Saber Alter oneshot
    Requiem for a Race - Altrouge and Ortenrosse hunt the TAs ( 1/3 chapters, discontinued )
    Memories of a King - a 'Saber Origins' story ( 8/? chapters, discontiuned )
    A Small Warmth - a post UBW-Good oneshot, Saber/Rin
    Devil's Thrill - Narbareck hunts down a DAA Blackmore ( 10/10 chapters, finished )
    Boundary of Loneliness - Ryougi Shiki/Alphard Al-Shua oneshot. Lemon-flavoured

  10. #1190
    Dapper Deathwing YeOfLittleFaith's Avatar
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    Lancelot was a Berserker in Fate/Zero though. ^c^



    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
    Not my fault Shirou is an awesome bro to lesbians.

  11. #1191
    祖 Ancestor Black Sword's Avatar
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    I now understand food's struggle with the waifu cancer, because that is some impressive selective obliviousness. There's absolutely nothing to support either of your contentions in the text. It's fanwankery on both your parts.

    BlackField, you are seriously going to call it "winning" when Saber herself said she her defeat was certain in her situation? She was pinned down and unable to fight back until she did her truck shield gambit. She would have won if she had gotten that critical hit, but her luck failed and she only staggered Lancelot.. Furthermore... you know what? Forget it. Your entire career when it comes to canon is saying something wrong and getting your spine crushed. One need only look at Questions to prove that much.

    Polly, when your best support is BlackField, just gracefully admit defeat. Your waifu is awesome and I like her too, but she's not the strongest.
    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    That thread has simultaneously respawned my disgust for 4chan, and ripped away some of what little hope I have left for humanity.

    Was still hilarious, though.
    The first time I was overwhelmed by anime cuteness
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sword View Post

    Oh my God they look like adorable kittens I want to take them home with me!

  12. #1192
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors BlackField's Avatar
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    But Saber is the strongest Saber class servant, that doesn't mean she's the best swordsman.

    Saber Alter>Rin Saber with Excalibur>Herakles>Lancelot with Arondight>Lancelot without Arondight>=Sasaki Kojiro=Saber without Excalibur, from a pure powerlevel among swordsman perspective. From a pure swordsmanship perspective; Sasaki Kojiro>Lancelot=Herakles>Saber.

    ^I think I got proven wrong once in GD and that was because Food's translation was wrong. But nice, Black Sword, nice. Oh and arguing that I'm wrong because Saber is my waifu when I've said that she's my least favourite female member of the fate franchise, well that's just silly.
    Last edited by BlackField; May 21st, 2013 at 10:42 AM.

  13. #1193
    In Memoriam Kelnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    He didn't win any fights. Iskandar only won against Assassin. Gilgamesh lost to Lancelot ( kinda ) and in Fate to Saber ( who apparently sucks ). Lancer committed suicide. Assassins... enough said. Basically, they ALL suck. Only Gilles is the true boss.

    Anyways, Nasu repeatedly states that Arturia is the strongest Saber-class Servant. Then Gen comes and wanks Lancelot. It's up to the reader to decide who they want to wank.
    He did win a fight. The fight for our hearts.

  14. #1194
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Polly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sword View Post
    I now understand food's struggle with the waifu cancer, because that is some impressive selective obliviousness. There's absolutely nothing to support either of your contentions in the text. It's fanwankery on both your parts.

    BlackField, you are seriously going to call it "winning" when Saber herself said she her defeat was certain in her situation? She was pinned down and unable to fight back until she did her truck shield gambit. She would have won if she had gotten that critical hit, but her luck failed and she only staggered Lancelot.. Furthermore... you know what? Forget it. Your entire career when it comes to canon is saying something wrong and getting your spine crushed. One need only look at Questions to prove that much.

    Polly, when your best support is BlackField, just gracefully admit defeat. Your waifu is awesome and I like her too, but she's not the strongest.
    You wanted me to assist you with procrastination? Then stop complaining about the methods I choose.
    And my support is/was Seika, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kelnish View Post
    He did win a fight. The fight for our hearts.
    Truly, the Ultimate M is the hero we deserve.
    My attempts at being a (fanfic) writer:

    Eclipse - a Saber Alter oneshot
    Requiem for a Race - Altrouge and Ortenrosse hunt the TAs ( 1/3 chapters, discontinued )
    Memories of a King - a 'Saber Origins' story ( 8/? chapters, discontiuned )
    A Small Warmth - a post UBW-Good oneshot, Saber/Rin
    Devil's Thrill - Narbareck hunts down a DAA Blackmore ( 10/10 chapters, finished )
    Boundary of Loneliness - Ryougi Shiki/Alphard Al-Shua oneshot. Lemon-flavoured

  15. #1195
    Dapper Deathwing YeOfLittleFaith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
    Rin Saber with Excalibur>Herakles>Lancelot with Arondight>Lancelot without Arondight>=Sasaki Kojiro=Saber without Excalibur, from a pure powerlevel among swordsman perspective. From a pure swordsmanship perspective; Sasaki Kojiro>Lancelot=Herakles>Saber.
    Sounds about right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelnish View Post
    He did win a fight. The fight for our hearts.



    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
    Not my fault Shirou is an awesome bro to lesbians.

  16. #1196
    So if just one person isn't won over does that mean he lost?
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  17. #1197
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Polly's Avatar
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    Yes. Yes it does.
    My attempts at being a (fanfic) writer:

    Eclipse - a Saber Alter oneshot
    Requiem for a Race - Altrouge and Ortenrosse hunt the TAs ( 1/3 chapters, discontinued )
    Memories of a King - a 'Saber Origins' story ( 8/? chapters, discontiuned )
    A Small Warmth - a post UBW-Good oneshot, Saber/Rin
    Devil's Thrill - Narbareck hunts down a DAA Blackmore ( 10/10 chapters, finished )
    Boundary of Loneliness - Ryougi Shiki/Alphard Al-Shua oneshot. Lemon-flavoured

  18. #1198
    祖 Ancestor Black Sword's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    You wanted me to assist you with procrastination? Then stop complaining about the methods I choose.
    Touché.
    Quote Originally Posted by eddyak View Post
    That thread has simultaneously respawned my disgust for 4chan, and ripped away some of what little hope I have left for humanity.

    Was still hilarious, though.
    The first time I was overwhelmed by anime cuteness
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Sword View Post

    Oh my God they look like adorable kittens I want to take them home with me!

  19. #1199
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackField View Post
    No. Read the Seika doc. Kariya is great, he lasted to the final day of the war for a reason.
    Because Kotomine is a troll?

    I mean Tokiomi and Kayneth were great masters and they were among the first ones to croak.

    There isn't much correlation between quality as a Master and success at war.

  20. #1200
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors BlackField's Avatar
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    It was more along the lines of he was great at supplying prana, rather than an actual statement that he was a good overall master. IIRC Most Berserker class masters croak pretty early from the Berserker taking too much of their od. It was impressive for him to last that long considering everything.

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