Jojo's Bizarre Threadventure

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

^ To expand on that, rather than Jotaro randomly gaining the ability to fight The World Over Heaven they should have indeed had Jonathan stab himself with the Stand Arrow as a final resort, gain a Stand and rumble with DIO.

Would've way more epic.

Or simply by coming into contact with DIO, the Stand DIO awakened in his body should have awakened, and then he should have stabbed that Stand with the Requiem Arrow, making it a combat type, and then they should have thrown down.

[Skull]

Mmm.

Always fascinating to think about what kind of Stand Jonathan would get if the Arrow had replaced the Stone Mask.

[You]

Mmm.

Always fascinating to think about what kind of Stand Jonathan would get if the Arrow had replaced the Stone Mask.

Isn't Jonathan's stand The Crown
The one DIO used to make spirit photos

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Isn't Jonathan's stand The Crown
The one DIO used to make spirit photos

Yeah, Jorge Joestar calls it The Passion, but yes, that is his Stand. It's an HP variant, and it has to be, since HP and any variants are the Stands of Hamon as stated by JoJonium Volume 2. At the very least, it's the physical manifestation of Hamon.

[Skull]

Isn't Jonathan's stand The Crown
The one DIO used to make spirit photos

No, for a couple of reasons but the simplest one is the databook confirms that DIO is using Joseph's power through the link he has with Jonathan's body.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

No, for a couple of reasons but the simplest one is the databook confirms that DIO is using Joseph's power through the link he has with Jonathan's body.

Which databook? Also, Jonathan's body definitely reacted to the arrow, and that's why all the Joestars alive at the time got Stands. You can't tell me Jonathan's body didn't manifest a Stand when his soul clearly reacted.

[Skull]

It's all Papa Araki's fault for retconning the whole "DIO has every Stand ability!!!" concept only after he showed DIO using Hermit Purple.

I won't claim to know the answer to what Jonathan's Stand actually is, since there isn't really one in canon (which renders this argument pointless). However there are a few things that should be taken into consideration before anyone starts claiming what Jonathan's Stand is.

• DIO states more than once that his Stand - "The World" came from Jonathan's body/lifeforce this is why it creates a ripple (lol) effect with his descendants.
• Vampires should not be able to create Stands themselves since they lack the lifeforce to do so. Note I said "create" to differentiate from Vanilla Ice who had a Stand prior to becoming a vampire.
• Ignoring Whitesnake shenanigans, a person cannot have multiple Stands so it doesn't make sense that multiple Stands came from his body.
• A Stand's appearance and power is determined by the user's personality, Jonathan being dead throws a wrench into either The World or Purple Hermit being his. Rather it makes more sense that The World has the abilities it does because of DIO's mindset.

I know it's just a fan theory but I am partial to the idea that The World's power is to steal the abilities of Jonathan's descendants (Spiritography, Time Stop and Restoration) since it creates the least amount of plotholes and it makes so much thematic sense since Araki was going for the whole "Heroes represent the positive traits of their unique Tarot cards whilst the antagonists represent the negative Reverse readings of their cards". And The World represents (among other things) passing on one's knowledge to the next generation and so the reverse of that would be to take power from one's descendants.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

It's all Papa Araki's fault for retconning the whole "DIO has every Stand ability!!!" concept only after he showed DIO using Hermit Purple.

I won't claim to know the answer to what Jonathan's Stand actually is, since there isn't really one in canon (which renders this argument pointless). However there are a few things that should be taken into consideration before anyone starts claiming what Jonathan's Stand is.

• DIO states more than once that his Stand - "The World" came from Jonathan's body/lifeforce this is why it creates a ripple (lol) effect with his descendants.
• Vampires should not be able to create Stands themselves since they lack the lifeforce to do so. Note I said "create" to differentiate from Vanilla Ice who had a Stand prior to becoming a vampire.
• Ignoring Whitesnake shenanigans, a person cannot have multiple Stands so it doesn't make sense that multiple Stands came from his body.
• A Stand's appearance and power is determined by the user's personality, Jonathan being dead throws a wrench into either The World or Purple Hermit being his. Rather it makes more sense that The World has the abilities it does because of DIO's mindset.

I know it's just a fan theory but I am partial to the idea that The World's power is to steal the abilities of Jonathan's descendants (Spiritography, Time Stop and Restoration) since it creates the least amount of plotholes and it makes so much thematic sense since Araki was going for the whole "Heroes represent the positive traits of their unique Tarot cards whilst the antagonists represent the negative Reverse readings of their cards". And The World represents (among other things) passing on one's knowledge to the next generation and so the reverse of that would be to take power from one's descendants.

Did he state the World came from Jonathan's body because it's Jonathan's body or because he now has a body and isn't a disembodied head? I personally think the latter because when he thanks Jonathan's body, it's more for becoming his and allowing him to prosper once more. In addition, Jojonium and JoJo a Go-Go both state that Hermit Purple is the Stand of Hamon, and Jonathan, as a Hamon user, would awaken it if he were to get one (and I believe he did). In addition, there's nothing stating vampires can't develop Stands, since there's nothing stating they don't have souls or a life force because all the changes in JJBA from human to vampire are physical, not necessarily spiritual. Furthermore, if DIO's body awakened two stands, it's not actually a case of one body, two Stands, but two souls, two Stands both housed in a single body because shenanigans. Jonathan's soul may be dormant, but it appears to be around, and Stands are based on Souls. Also, a Stand's nature is also influenced by the experiences of a user and can be the culmination of a skill like Pearl Jam and Dragon Dream. Finally, if that one chapter in SBR is to be believed, the Stone Mask basically pulls out Stands from vampires and Pillar Men.

[SpoonyViking]

Considering what we see in Steel Ball Run, I don't think The World is Jonathan's Stand.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Considering what we see in Steel Ball Run, I don't think The World is Jonathan's Stand.

Of course not, and Skull wasn't implying that either. He rather subscribed to the fan theory of DIO being able to use the powers of all the Joestar family's Stands.

[Mcjon01]

What do you think George Joestar’s Stand would have been

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

What do you think George Joestar’s Stand would have been

Airplane does not Crash.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

BTW, I can now officially say I'm caught up with the entirety of JJBA thus far.

[SpoonyViking]

Of course not, and Skull wasn't implying that either.

I wasn't replying to him specifically, I was making a general comment.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Point taken. It just seemed like you were. Also, do you agree that the HP Stand DIO used was Jonathan's or not?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Quick question. Do we know how DIO somehow collected Stands to give to Pucci despite the World not being able to do so because Survivor was definitely from DIO, yet Pucci has it as a disk, unless Pucci can somehow collect the Stand from DIO's memories of it?

[Skull]

Considering what we see in Steel Ball Run, I don't think The World is Jonathan's Stand.

I don't think anyone disputes that since DIO is always listed as the Stand Master every time. But it is a fact that that DIO's The World is connected to Jonathan. Personally I see Jonathan getting something similar to Gold Experience since "giving life" always reminded me of Hamon and Giorno is technically Jonathan's son as much as DIO's.

Regarding SBR...

I have mixed feelings about AU Diego's appearance in SBR as it just reeks of fanservice and also wasted opportunity but that's neither here nor there. I don't see him having an alternate version of The World as having any effect on what happens in Part 3 since Killer Queen in Part 8 straight up has a different ability but is still recognised as the same Stand.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I don't think anyone disputes that since DIO is always listed as the Stand Master every time. But it is a fact that that DIO's The World is connected to Jonathan. Personally I see Jonathan getting something similar to Gold Experience since "giving life" always reminded me of Hamon and Giorno is technically Jonathan's son as much as DIO's.

Regarding SBR...

I have mixed feelings about AU Diego's appearance in SBR as it just reeks of fanservice and also wasted opportunity but that's neither here nor there. I don't see him having an alternate version of The World as having any effect on what happens in Part 3 since Killer Queen in Part 8 straight up has a different ability but is still recognised as the same Stand.

I don't think it is, and Alternate World Diego at least proves that much. I personally think Giorno's abilities are a combination of Hamon and Dio's ability to play mix and match with critters back in Phantom Blood when he was making zombies. Remember mancat or catfalcon? I do. They were horrifying. Also, considering Holly too had a vine Stand, and we can only assume she had some latent Hamon potential, it stands to reason Jonathan would too, and combined with what's said in JoJonium about HP, Jonathan's Stand would be some version of HP, maybe stronger than Joseph's and maybe with some extra abilities, but still HP at its base.

Spoiler:

Also, I do agree Alternate World Diego came way out of the blue, even if he was better explained than Araki's numerous other asspulls. He just was there to deprive Johnny of a win or a place in the race despite his father coming specifically to apologize and say how proud he was of him.

[Skull]

^ So I went off to read said Jojonium interview and after doing so all I can think about is how it just creates further plotholes.

The most blatantly obvious one being: If Hermit Purple is a "Stand of Hamon" then how is DIO using it?

Dammit Araki. :\

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

^ So I went off to read said Jojonium interview and after doing so all I can think about is how it just creates further plotholes.

The most blatantly obvious one being: If Hermit Purple is a "Stand of Hamon" then how is DIO using it?

Dammit Araki. :\

The obvious answer, Jonathan's soul/body because his soul awakened it separately.