Jojo's Bizarre Threadventure

[Skull]

You miss my point.

If it's Hamon, and DIO is a Vampire then he should be exploding like Straits did when he tried to use it as a vamp.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

You miss my point.

If it's Hamon, and DIO is a Vampire then he should be exploding like Straits did when he tried to use it as a vamp.

Huh. However, I think it also may be more like Tusk in that it is a perfect channel for Hamon on its own as opposed to a 100% physical manifestation like Ball Breaker, since the language was also kind of ambiguous on that front.

Actually, you're right. Goddamit Araki.

[SpoonyViking]

Guys, remember that Steel Ball Run will probably be animated and we should probably be careful not to spoil anything, including the existence of certain characters.

I don't think anyone disputes that since DIO is always listed as the Stand Master every time. But it is a fact that that DIO's The World is connected to Jonathan.

Is it? I wonder.

Spoiler:

Aside from a few cosmetic differences, the only difference between AU!Diego's The World and DIO's is that DIO's looks much more physically imposing, and seems to be a lot more physically powerful.

Now, there's definitely a connection between The World and Star Platinum, and the easiest explanation for that is that The World is somehow related to the Joestar bloodline, but considering Steel Ball Run, I don't think we can just take that as a fact.

Also, do you agree that the HP Stand DIO used was Jonathan's or not?

It seems like the easiest explanation, particularly with Holly's own undeveloped Stand.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Also, about the DIO being able to use HP without exploding, I have one possibly stretchy explanation. The blood-brain barrier. In the human body, the blood vessels feeding the head and brain are separate from those that circulate blood through the body, and since DIO as a vampire could live as an autonomous head and grafted himself onto another's body, the divide is likely even stronger than in a normal human, possibly protecting him.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Guys, remember that Steel Ball Run will probably be animated and we should probably be careful not to spoil anything, including the existence of certain characters.

Sorry, will remember in the future.

Is it? I wonder.

Spoiler:

Aside from a few cosmetic differences, the only difference between AU!Diego's The World and DIO's is that DIO's looks much more physically imposing, and seems to be a lot more physically powerful.

Spoiler:

That last difference may be due to DIO being physically stronger than AU!Diego, since he's a vampire and AU!Diego is just a human horseman.

[Skull]

Seeing as we're on the topic of theorising about Stands, I've been re-watching the first half of Stardust Crusaders recently and I'm curious about what y'all think Holly's Stand would have been had she actually been able to manifest it properly...

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Seeing as we're on the topic of theorising about Stands, I've been re-watching the first half of Stardust Crusaders recently and I'm curious about what y'all think Holly's Stand would have been had she actually been able to manifest it properly...

Simple. It'd have been another HP variant since it already looked like a raspberry bush with thorns or something. Besides, she does have some latent Hamon potential. As for any specific abilities, I'd think it'd either have the heart-reading aspect of HP up to 11, or it'd have some ability that healed or caused tranquility in targets.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I wonder if Araki tried to write Hamon again as he is now as compared to 30 years ago, how might he have written it differently? Personally, I like Hamon as is, but the execution is a bit rough.

[You]

Contemporary Hamon is Spin though

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Contemporary Hamon is Spin though

Yeah, no. Despite how common that meme(?) is in the fandom, the two are almost nothing alike, the only commonality being that they both are inspired from nature. I was just asking that if Araki were to rewrite Hamon with the same general concept as 30 years ago, what might come out now that he has proven himself to be a much more experienced and creatively free mangaka?

[SpoonyViking]

I think that's the point of You's reply: Araki, having the chance to come up with another "super martial arts style", went with something quite different from Hamon.

Regarding SBR...

I don't see him having an alternate version of The World as having any effect on what happens in Part 3 since Killer Queen in Part 8 straight up has a different ability but is still recognised as the same Stand.

Spoiler:

Sheer Heart Attack is the same, and it's main ability (which is only described, not seen, if I recall it correctly) is basically a reference to Killer Queen + Stray Cat.

[Skull]

Spoiler:

Sheer Heart Attack is the same, and it's main ability (which is only described, not seen, if I recall it correctly) is basically a reference to Killer Queen + Stray Cat.

Spoilers

You miss my point which was that because Diego almost certainly didn't get his Stand through the same means as DIO (i.e creating it from Jonathan's lifeforce) it can explain why he doesn't have all the extra powers that DIO seemed to get - being clairvoyance and healing touch.

I brought up Killer Queen because Part 8 Kira didn't get his Stand through the same method as Part 4 and as such despite getting the same Stand its abilities are subtly different - Creating explosive bubbles instead of turning what he touches into a bomb, and SHA is no longer a remote controlled heat seeking bomb instead it is directly controlled by Kira and he can create multiples of it. The reason I brought it up was to help reinforce my point that DIO's The World and Diego's The World might not exactly be the same as described above.

Also we did see Kira's bubble ability twice, both times when he was with Josefumi.

Though ultimately this is boiling down to various intradiegetic explanations for a continuity mistake made by an author who forgets things sadly too often. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I think that's the point of You's reply: Araki, having the chance to come up with another "super martial arts style", went with something quite different from Hamon.

Spoiler:

Sheer Heart Attack is the same, and it's main ability (which is only described, not seen, if I recall it correctly) is basically a reference to Killer Queen + Stray Cat.

Point taken, but my question was if Araki had decided to keep the general concept, as opposed to scrapping it and inventing something else, how might Hamon have looked then? Hypothetically speaking.

Spoilers

You miss my point which was that because Diego almost certainly didn't get his Stand through the same means as DIO (i.e creating it from Jonathan's lifeforce) it can explain why he doesn't have all the extra powers that DIO seemed to get - being clairvoyance and healing touch.

I brought up Killer Queen because Part 8 Kira didn't get his Stand through the same method as Part 4 and as such despite getting the same Stand its abilities are subtly different - Creating explosive bubbles instead of turning what he touches into a bomb, and SHA is no longer a remote controlled heat seeking bomb instead it is directly controlled by Kira and he can create multiples of it. The reason I brought it up was to help reinforce my point that DIO's The World and Diego's The World might not exactly be the same as described above.

Also we did see Kira's bubble ability twice, both times when he was with Josefumi.

Though ultimately this is boiling down to various intradiegetic explanations for a continuity mistake made by an author who forgets things sadly too often. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Spoiler:

The other thing about Part 8 v Part 4 Kira is that the two were also fundamentally different people despite having some of the same OCD tendencies (and I mean that in the clinical sense), so even though they both got Killer Queen, their abilities are somewhat different. DIO and AU!Diego aren't really fundamentally different as characters far as we know, so the manifestation of their souls is likely the same. Also, DIO's clairvoyance and healing touch don't even come from the World, but rather Jonathan's Stand and his vampire abilities, though I know you will disagree with me and Spoony on that one.

[Skull]

Since we've brought up the subject of Extradiegetic Narrative, can I just say that the sheer number of continuity errors in Jojolion really prevent me from enjoying its otherwise good story.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Since we've brought up the subject of Extradiegetic Narrative, can I just say that the sheer number of continuity errors in Jojolion really prevent me from enjoying its otherwise good story.

Spoiler:

Which ones? There isn't much of a continuity between Parts 7 and 8 anyway. Are you referring to the sudden lack of importance of characters such as Kyo, Karera, and many of the Higashikatas? Is it that Damo should have been the main villain and that the plot seemed to have been rewritten at some point after release, though I can't pinpoint where?

[SpoonyViking]

Spoilers

You miss my point which was that because Diego almost certainly didn't get his Stand through the same means as DIO (i.e creating it from Jonathan's lifeforce) it can explain why he doesn't have all the extra powers that DIO seemed to get - being clairvoyance and healing touch.

Oh, sorry, I really did miss that. And yeah, that's as good an explanation as any.
Also, sorry - "healing touch"? I forget, when did he display that?

Spoiler:

I brought up Killer Queen because Part 8 Kira didn't get his Stand through the same method as Part 4 [...]

Weren't they both born with their Stands?

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Oh, sorry, I really did miss that. And yeah, that's as good an explanation as any.
Also, sorry - "healing touch"? I forget, when did he display that?



Weren't they both born with their Stands?

Nah. Part 4 Kira got his Stand from the arrow Yoshihiro had in his possession from DIO and Enya. Before then, he had to murder Reimi and her family the old-fashioned way, and he forgot to take her hands.

Also, the only thing I can map to a healing touch for DIO is when he attached Vanilla Ice's head back to his body, but that's because DIO was a vampire that he could do it.

On a random note, I've been sorta rereading the Phantom Blood manga, and I noticed when the driver tried to warn Jonathan not to go to Ogre Street, he said it was a place for the cursed and that every epidemic struck there. Seems like that'd be something for a Rohan side material since Rohan's already dealt with cursed locations before such as the Millenium Villa or the Louvre. What do you guys think?

[Skull]

Spoiler:

Which ones? There isn't much of a continuity between Parts 7 and 8 anyway. Are you referring to the sudden lack of importance of characters such as Kyo, Karera, and many of the Higashikatas? Is it that Damo should have been the main villain and that the plot seemed to have been rewritten at some point after release, though I can't pinpoint where?

I'm referring to literal errors of continuity within Jojolion itself where either the narrative or a character states one thing but then we see what they're talking about and it turns out to be something that completely contradicts them.

To list a few examples off the top of my head...

Jojolion spoilers

• Oujiro Sasame claims the first time he met Yoshikage Kira, the latter tricked him into eating his fingers off his hands. But when they meet again just before the earthquake, Sasame still has all his fingers.
• During the Oujiro fight, Josuke sees a memory of the last thing Kira saw before he died which was of a mysterious person and wonders who that was. Charitably I would suggest that this was meant to be an early design of either Josefumi or Damo but the fact that he saw this person never comes up again when he meets either of them is odd.
• Josuke comes out of the ground with the hat Kira bought 3 days prior at the hat store. But when we see Kira and Josefumi go into the ground, Kira is wearing his regular hat that he always has.
• Yotsuyu claimed that he killed Josefumi and Kira was the one to bring him back. But we see that it was Damo who killed Kira and Josefumi sacrificed himself to bring him back.
• Karera is a hot mess of errors, she produces a photo that shows herself, Kira and Josefumi all hanging out despite that never taking place, the photo shows Josefumi with the Joestar birthmark despite the fact that he's not blood related to the Joestar family nor was there any reasonable way he could have gotten it and finally Karera states that Kira hid her from the world despite the fact that they didn't meet until the day of Kira's death. Also, this isn't a direct contradiction but Karera states that Josefumi and Kira shared the apartment that Josuke fights Oujiro in which is strange that Oujiro didn't mention anything about it.

It's not enough to make me hate Jojolion, but it does make it difficult to get attached to what's going on when plot points that appear can easily change or disappear at the drop of a hat.

Also, sorry - "healing touch"? I forget, when did he display that?

Stone Ocean spoilers

It was in the flashback where Pucci met DIO for the first time. Out of gratitude for giving him a place to stay during the day, DIO touches Pucci's Club Foot and then once DIO has left Pucci takes off his shoe and realises that his once twisted foot has miraculously become a normal functioning foot. (Maximum Jesus allegory )

I'm assuming that Araki forgot that DIO's healing abilities only extend to his own body.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I'm referring to literal errors of continuity within Jojolion itself where either the narrative or a character states one thing but then we see what they're talking about and it turns out to be something that completely contradicts them.

To list a few examples off the top of my head...

Jojolion spoilers

• Oujiro Sasame claims the first time he met Yoshikage Kira, the latter tricked him into eating his fingers off his hands. But when they meet again just before the earthquake, Sasame still has all his fingers.
• During the Oujiro fight, Josuke sees a memory of the last thing Kira saw before he died which was of a mysterious person and wonders who that was. Charitably I would suggest that this was meant to be an early design of either Josefumi or Damo but the fact that he saw this person never comes up again when he meets either of them is odd.
• Josuke comes out of the ground with the hat Kira bought 3 days prior at the hat store. But when we see Kira and Josefumi go into the ground, Kira is wearing his regular hat that he always has.
• Yotsuyu claimed that he killed Josefumi and Kira was the one to bring him back. But we see that it was Damo who killed Kira and Josefumi sacrificed himself to bring him back.
• Karera is a hot mess of errors, she produces a photo that shows herself, Kira and Josefumi all hanging out despite that never taking place, the photo shows Josefumi with the Joestar birthmark despite the fact that he's not blood related to the Joestar family nor was there any reasonable way he could have gotten it and finally Karera states that Kira hid her from the world despite the fact that they didn't meet until the day of Kira's death. Also, this isn't a direct contradiction but Karera states that Josefumi and Kira shared the apartment that Josuke fights Oujiro in which is strange that Oujiro didn't mention anything about it.

It's not enough to make me hate Jojolion, but it does make it difficult to get attached to what's going on when plot points that appear can easily change or disappear at the drop of a hat.

Stone Ocean spoilers

It was in the flashback where Pucci met DIO for the first time. Out of gratitude for giving him a place to stay during the day, DIO touches Pucci's Club Foot and then once DIO has left Pucci takes off his shoe and realises that his once twisted foot has miraculously become a normal functioning foot. (Maximum Jesus allegory )

I'm assuming that Araki forgot that DIO's healing abilities only extend to his own body.

Oh, the Pucci part? I assumed that was DIO's vampiric powers at work. He definitely displayed the ability to manipulate the bodies of others, I mean look at the disturbing menagerie of zombies he created in Part 1. He definitely has some power over the biology of others. That or he gave some of his vampiric flesh/cells to Pucci to somehow correct the club foot.

Also, I had yet to notice all those errors because I just binged it this weekend, but now that I think about it, yeah...SBR was way better in that regard.

[mAc Chaos]

He also spent 100 year under the sea, so who's to say he didn't develop new powers while down there.