The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

No one actually wants to answer that question. Take a hint. However, I'd like to try this again. Do you guys think Servant Xtreme Beach Volleyball would be cool?

[Iceblade44]

No one actually wants to answer that question. Take a hint. However, I'd like to try this again. Do you guys think Servant Xtreme Beach Volleyball would be cool?

Emiya will constantly gun at killing Shirou

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Emiya will constantly gun at killing Shirou

Well yeah, but if we were just restricting it to Servants, it's not like he could do that because Shirou in that case couldn't play. Admittedly, that scene was funny and badass, and the background music was surprisingly epic.

[Lily Emilio]

Ophelia Helen of Troy.

Sinmara Ophelia. Give Surtr-kun both his real myth waifu and his Crypter crush.

[hayate]

AU fanfic where Rin is a Dead Apostle when?

Not a DA though.

old man of the jewels is Rin's ancestor even before he became a DA.

For reference, HF and Kagetsu Tohya.

Magecraft of the Tohsaka lineage consists of jewels.

Three guesses on who taught the Tohsaka that kind of Magecraft.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Not a DA though.

old man of the jewels is Rin's ancestor even before he became a DA.

For reference, HF and Kagetsu Tohya.

Magecraft of the Tohsaka lineage consists of jewels.

Three guesses on who taught the Tohsaka that kind of Magecraft.

Um, Zelrecht wasn't actually Rin's ancestor, if that's what your saying. He's only the "ancestor" of the Tohsaka line in that he was the one who taught them magecraft. Also, their true magecraft is just storing prana in objects. Most of their jewel magic came from the Edelfelt family, as did their proficiency in curses.

[Tobias]

You don’t have to be related by blood to be an ancestor, just ask zepia

[Altima of the Gates]

Wasn't there those implications that he got Nagato's daughter as....collateral for being a bro and teacher to Nagato?
And that maybe his daughter was the talented one?

[Deathhappens]

Basically this guy's logic is that if his headcanon does not apply, it's bad.

I don't agree with that guy either, but seriously, give the ad hominem a rest.

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No one actually wants to answer that question. Take a hint. However, I'd like to try this again. Do you guys think Servant Xtreme Beach Volleyball would be cool?

I want to see Servant basketball first.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

You don’t have to be related by blood to be an ancestor, just ask zepia

And I wasn't saying that. I simply said that ancestor in this case meant source of magical lineage in that he taught them magic.

Wasn't there those implications that he got Nagato's daughter as....collateral for being a bro and teacher to Nagato?
And that maybe his daughter was the talented one?

Nagato's daughter was definitely the more talented one and the one more involved in the HF ritual, but nowhere that I know of has it ever been stated Zelrecht got her as collateral. Hell, he taught Nagato magic to repay a hotel bill.

I want to see Servant basketball first.

Sure, why not? I personally find beach volleyball a more exciting sport in general, and we've already seen how it might look, but to each his own.

[Mcjon01]

Um, Zelrecht wasn't actually Rin's ancestor, if that's what your saying. He's only the "ancestor" of the Tohsaka line in that he was the one who taught them magecraft. Also, their true magecraft is just storing prana in objects. Most of their jewel magic came from the Edelfelt family, as did their proficiency in curses.

“Uh... I don't know, but is this any good? It looks pretty crappy."

"That's fine as is. The sword is an extraordinary demonic sword that can only be used by Schweinorg's lineage.
Well, I guess it's fate. Sakura is receiving the protection of the third and Rin's going to try to use the second. It wouldn't end up as mere investigation if the Association were here. Every department would be running to put them on trial."
Ilya laughs.

I mean, lineage is a weird choice of words if it’s just talking about students, and the operation of the gem sword doesn’t seem to have much to do with Tohsaka magecraft in the first place.

Plus there’s that bit about how Nagato wasn’t really a student of Zelretch’s anyway and he mostly just gave him the jewel sword homework as one of those classic Zelretch pranks

[Tobias]

Again, while I’m not saying it definitely is true, it’s worth noting in an oddly similar manner, there is an entire game built around the premise that when it comes to ability usage, a blood link is not nearly as important as someone who uses a compatible skill set.

Sion’s Mistake was assuming the link between her and zepia was due to him being her grandfather, when in actuality the true connection was in her mastery of etherlite being similar to his usage of malignant rumors.

Rin being linked to zelretch might be more in relation to her absurd level of skill with gem magic was a good foundation for learning to control the jeweled sword.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I mean, lineage is a weird choice of words if it’s just talking about students, and the operation of the gem sword doesn’t seem to have much to do with Tohsaka magecraft in the first place.

Plus there’s that bit about how Nagato wasn’t really a student of Zelretch’s anyway and he mostly just gave him the jewel sword homework as one of those classic Zelretch pranks

Actually, lineage isn't that odd a choice of words when referring to an intellectual lineage or a line of students. It's done all the time in real life, whether you refer to a lineage of violin-makers who all trace their skills to one person, whether you refer to a religious antecedent, as is the case with numerous sects of Hinduism, or even a philosophical lineage.

Also, even if Zelrecht himself didn't really consider Nagato a student in anything but the loosest sense of the word, to the wider world, he is a legitimate student of Zelrecht, and the Tohsakas are one of the lineages he created nonetheless, and the one he entrusted with the Jewelled Sword design.

[Dullahan]

randumb thingken

knk has very little to say about justice. judgment of moral good or evil never really enters into it as in eg. FSN. rather its focus is explicitly pre-judicial (hmm). it's not about determining who is good or bad, or even relative degrees of either - the question in each case (except maybe 6 but lol) is instead that of life's very qualification to be the object of judgement - i.e. whether one is included within or fundamentally excluded from the judicial order. the lingering because intangible injunction of patriarchal authority - Shiki's grandfather's parting words - conceptualise murder as a radical transgression which places one entirely outside judgement - outside society - outside human life as such. Can't die a human death...by committing murder a person is stripped of life's political qualification and reduced to a state of bare life. Homo sacer. Very much in the sense developed by Giorgio Agamben (1998). In Lio we find the fullest expression of this logic - a metaphor made literal:

Rodolphe Jhering was, with these words, the first to approximate the figure of homo sacer to that of the wargus, the wolf-man, and of the Friedlos, the "man without peace" of ancient Germanic law. [...] What had to remain in the collective unconscious as a monstrous hybrid of human and animal, divided between the forest and the city -- the werewolf -- is, therefore, in its origin the figure of the man who has been banned from the city . That such a man is defined as a wolf-man and not simply as a wolf (the expression caput lupinum has the form of a juridical statute) is decisive here. The life of the bandit, like that of the sacred man, is not a piece of animal nature without any relation to law and the city . It is, rather , a threshold of indistinction and of passage between animal and man, physis and nomos, exclusion and inclusion: the life of the bandit is the life of the loup garou, the werewolf, who is precisely neither man nor beast, and who dwells paradoxically within both while belonging to neither .

thingken some more. perhaps the root of this injunction - this kind of approach on the part of Shiki's grandfather - lies in the ryougi family's history as part of a demon-hunting organisation. specialised - indeed devoted - to destroying inhuman or demi-human threats. Excluded & taboo offspring of miscegenation. demon hybrids - not equal subjects under the law, rather they occupy a position of radical exteriority to it. perhaps this is why they came to think that way. Shiki - so to speak - is the last of the DHO. hmm

need to think on this further

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I actually understood that.

[Mcjon01]

Actually, lineage isn't that odd a choice of words when referring to an intellectual lineage or a line of students. It's done all the time in real life, whether you refer to a lineage of violin-makers who all trace their skills to one person, whether you refer to a religious antecedent, as is the case with numerous sects of Hinduism, or even a philosophical lineage.

Also, even if Zelrecht himself didn't really consider Nagato a student in anything but the loosest sense of the word, to the wider world, he is a legitimate student of Zelrecht, and the Tohsakas are one of the lineages he created nonetheless, and the one he entrusted with the Jewelled Sword design.

Ilya should be well aware of the Tohsaka family’s real connection to Zelretch though, as the inheritor of Justeaze’s will. And the Japanese word they used can mean a master/student connection too, that’s true, but it’s overwhelmingly used in the context of an actual bloodline connection and it’s more fun to imagine Zelretch the dirty old man.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Ilya should be well aware of the Tohsaka family’s real connection to Zelretch though, as the inheritor of Justeaze’s will. And the Japanese word they used can mean a master/student connection too, that’s true, but it’s overwhelmingly used in the context of an actual bloodline connection and it’s more fun to imagine Zelretch the dirty old man.

I personally find that more disturbing than funny considering his age and species, but okay, I guess, and it's nice knowing how the exact Japanese word they used is typically used because lineage in English isn't necessarily tied to blood relations.

[You]

Again, while I’m not saying it definitely is true, it’s worth noting in an oddly similar manner, there is an entire game built around the premise that when it comes to ability usage, a blood link is not nearly as important as someone who uses a compatible skill set.

...... Just what has changed in my life since then?
I do not look any different in the mirror.
Since I was an Eltnam, a once-noble house, the others treated me with contempt.

I excelled as a student to erase the sin of my ancestor.
The others wanted only to have me removed.
As long as I was the top student in the class, all they could do was ignore me.
Once I became Atlasia, I had the power to remove them.

They were afraid of my retribution.
They probably believed I would treat them in the same manner they treated me.
They did not want to receive any contempt.

I am a noble.
The blood of the sinner Eltnam runs through me, but I am not ruled by my emotions.
In the first place, I do not feel any emotions towards them anyway.

"Oh... like that Etherlite you have?"

"The Etherlite is a technique handed down in the Eltnam family. The foundation techniques of Atlas are Thought Acceleration and Thought Partition.
After that, acceleration and conversion alchemy is acquired."

"??? Thought Acceleration just means thinking really fast... but Thought Partition is......"

"Just what I said. Ciel, if you do not leave at once, I will burn up Shiki's brain."

"The artificial nervous system implanted in Shiki, my Etherlite, is connected to me through my bracelet. I can destroy his brain at any time if you do not agree to leave me alone."

"Etherlite...... I've heard of that before. I thought it sounded familiar, but the name Eltnam is related to that man... typical of Atlas. I'll accept this temporarily."

"You should not speak of knowledge gained from Roa. I am different from that man you speak of."

A monster that drinks human blood.
A usurper who steals human blood.
That monster let me alone escape.
I asked it why it let me go.

"What do you mean? I feel sorry for my own kind."

Saying that as it smiled, it disappeared.
To think that is one of my relatives makes me so angry I could go crazy.
One in whom the blood of Eltnam flows.
The same blood of Eltnam within me.
This body which can no longer turn back.

Sion and Zepia are related by blood

[Tobias]

Sion and Zepia are related by blood

And sion thinking that was the connection between them was the literal problem that she struggled with in melty blood. As in, the entire game where she keeps seeking where her calculations went wrong, it was in assuming that the reason zepia was showing her consideration was because of the blood tie

In reality the connection was the similarity between their skills.

[You]

oh you mean like he chose Sion as his successor because of her abilities rather than just her blood
Yeah that's true but it might be different for vampires than for magi
Magecraft is more lineage locked than i vant to suck your blood