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Thread: The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

  1. #14501
    don't look at the ears Marmadillo's Avatar
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    Gil has a skirt so it's obviously not just for girls
    A bit more seriously, look at Proto-Arthurs design and compare it to Saber's. There are clear similarities including having something skirt-like, but Saber's ir redesigned to look "girlier".

    Speaking about king needing to be male, the text feels a bit contradictory to me. How I see it, Saber needs to be male for ceremonial/customary reasons, but no one actually cares what her sex is.

  2. #14502
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Some translators go literally for "sailing skirts" and some use "kilt" [...]
    And others use "robes" or "tunic", for instance. Considering even in modern English "skirt" can be used to refer to the free-hanging part of a piece of clothing that extends from the waist down - like, say, with a tunic -, you'll understand if I don't take the usage of "skyrtez" (which, again, was also used for Gringolet) to mean Gawain dressed like this.

    Which is Kirby's argument, by the way; that this is historically accurate to 6th-century Britain and doesn't look feminine enough to be noticeable even when the person wearing is attempting to pass off as a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmadillo View Post
    Speaking about king needing to be male, the text feels a bit contradictory to me. How I see it, Saber needs to be male for ceremonial/customary reasons, but no one actually cares what her sex is.
    I think that part means that, as long as Saber behaves like the ideal king, people won't ever notice she's actually a woman, not that if they ever do notice it, they will accept it.
    Last edited by SpoonyViking; February 29th, 2016 at 07:51 AM.

  3. #14503
    XV. Snow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    Kilts are a 16th century invention.
    They date at least as far back as the 16th century, and they had to have a precedent even before that, in the Middle Ages - which are, by your own words, the visual inspiration for how Arthur and her knights look and dress in TM materials.

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    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpoonyViking View Post
    And others use "robes" or "tunic", for instance.
    You're gonna have to point these to me, since that's just a bad translation when

    Ryche robes ful rad renkkez hym broȝten,

    exist separately right there earlier in the passage and is deliberately worded separate.

    Considering even in modern English "skirt" can be used to refer to the free-hanging part of a piece of clothing that extends from the waist down - like, say, with a tunic -, you'll understand if I don't take the usage of "skyrtez" (which, again, was also used for Gringolet) to mean Gawain dressed like this.
    Actually, if you study the story, that's exactly what you're supposed to take from it. Part of the story is a commentary on masculine-feminine issues and it's deliberate that he's being dressed in ways that could be interpreted as somewhat feminine while remaining all within his character and the times. Pearl Poet was deliberately questioning some of the issues of the somewhat effeminate French-influenced court life that Gawain represents to the "masculine" and hardy life up north further away from that influence--the way he dresses so comfortably and beautifully and that he's lounging around the castle while Bertilak goes out and does some hunting gruntwork is part of that point, as is how Gawain ends up with women's underwear tied around his waist at the end.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    I'll be honest: I know that interpretation exists, but I haven't read it, so I can't comment on it. I've always interpreted the story mostly as a struggle between the chivalrous ethos and earlier pagan ideologies, but I can't say I'm up to date on scholarly thinking regarding the poem.
    That said, that interpretation still maintains an association between skirts and femininity, so it would actually support my point about how Arturia, who wanted to present herself as a man, wouldn't wear the clothes she does?
    Last edited by SpoonyViking; February 29th, 2016 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #14506
    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    I don't exactly think it's a recent idea of scholarly thinking. The whole point of using the bob-and-weave narrative form and the deliberate wording has pretty much always pointed out at a "you dainty southern people and your Frenchy courts can't even fathom how I'm using the language to mock your culture." Even the ending, of Gawain supposedly learning something only to turn his journey into a fad when he returns is meant to be mockery. The pagan vs recent chivalry is just the surface trappings.

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    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Hm! Very interesting. Can you please suggest any papers on the topic - preferably ones available for free, or perhaps at JSTOR?

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    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    All of my notes are in storage as my schooling on it is four years removed. And I don't think I studied papers on it, I think that was mostly physical books for that section. I'll go looking for books later when its light out...fucking lit always upgrading books and being unable to sell them back...

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    Gorgeous~! Happy~! Elegant~! Bobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobin View Post
    Hrunting helps with tan.
    that has been proven, yes

  11. #14511
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    I'll go looking for books later when its light out
    Thanks!

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    Inactive Ereus's Avatar
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    I wonder if MeoDp can be ripped out and implanted in someone else and still work.
    With the way the keep adding shit to gils vault, soon he will have the root in it.

    Life is short, we don't need to shitpost at eachother about nasu.

  13. #14513
    birb against urb Dullahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereus View Post
    I wonder if MeoDp can be ripped out and implanted in someone else and still work.
    nope
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  14. #14514
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six forumghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ereus View Post
    I wonder if MeoDp can be ripped out and implanted in someone else and still work.
    Nah, MEoDP basically work by having the Brain connect to a different 'channel' then normal- The lines are just how the Brain interprets the information. You could gouge Tohno's eyes out with a Corkscrew and he'd still have the MEoDP, because it's not really in his eyes, it's in his brain.

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    Inactive Ereus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumghost View Post
    Nah, MEoDP basically work by having the Brain connect to a different 'channel' then normal- The lines are just how the Brain interprets the information. You could gouge Tohno's eyes out with a Corkscrew and he'd still have the MEoDP, because it's not really in his eyes, it's in his brain.
    Hmm k, so one would need brain surgery or something to acquire it. However why are shiki ryogi's eyes so much stronger?
    With the way the keep adding shit to gils vault, soon he will have the root in it.

    Life is short, we don't need to shitpost at eachother about nasu.

  16. #14516
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    If I recall it correctly, they work differently because hers are a result of her having a direct link to the Root, which is why they're better than Tohno's at killing Concepts (although I think I remember seeing something about how Tohno's eyes are better when it comes to seeing death?).

  17. #14517
    Κύρια Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    It's more a matter of the user than the Eyes: the power is fundamentally the same. But Ryōgi has more experience with the Eyes than Tōno for most of the time we see them, spent years in a near-death state, has the Akashic Records hanging out in the back of her head, and I think that the Ryōgi breeding programme means her body's a better vessel.

    Ah, there we go:
    To begin with, Tsukihime's Shiki was never supposed to be an ability user of that caliber. His talent was only at the level of pure eyes. Kara no Kyoukai's Shiki, on the other hand, is the greatest masterpiece of the Ryougi clan, the "shell" that they had been cultivating for hundreds of years. Her potential alone is already almost cheating. On top of that, because she connected to "there" and learnt the concept of death while she was still comatose, it comes as easily to her as breathing.
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  18. #14518
    Inactive Ereus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    It's more a matter of the user than the Eyes: the power is fundamentally the same. But Ryōgi has more experience with the Eyes than Tōno for most of the time we see them, spent years in a near-death state, has the Akashic Records hanging out in the back of her head, and I think that the Ryōgi breeding programme means her body's a better vessel.

    Ah, there we go:
    To begin with, Tsukihime's Shiki was never supposed to be an ability user of that caliber. His talent was only at the level of pure eyes. Kara no Kyoukai's Shiki, on the other hand, is the greatest masterpiece of the Ryougi clan, the "shell" that they had been cultivating for hundreds of years. Her potential alone is already almost cheating. On top of that, because she connected to "there" and learnt the concept of death while she was still comatose, it comes as easily to her as breathing.
    But than why cant tohno turn of his eyes? or would he be able to if he learned how or something? and why doesn't ryogi get brain damage?
    With the way the keep adding shit to gils vault, soon he will have the root in it.

    Life is short, we don't need to shitpost at eachother about nasu.

  19. #14519
    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    If you stare directly at the sun, it'll eventually damage your eyes and you'll lose sight in the center of your vision, seeing only a black dot. Guess what happens if you stare at death.

    Ryougi is hardwired to be a host for 「」, and 「」 is tied to the very nature of death. Like she's a mutant that has retinas that are immune to UV damage.

  20. #14520
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six forumghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    If you stare directly at the sun, it'll eventually damage your eyes and you'll lose sight in the center of your vision, seeing only a black dot. Guess what happens if you stare at death.

    Ryougi is hardwired to be a host for 「」, and 「」 is tied to the very nature of death. Like she's a mutant that has retinas that are immune to UV damage.
    This basically. Ryougi has a connection to the Origin/Void/「」/whatever you want to call it. Tohno is a dude that died and came back. She kinda has an unfair advantage.

    As for why Tohno can't turn them off? His eyes don't come with an off switch. Normally that'd be fine, since he naturally only has Pure Eyes (the ability to see the unseeable). But since his accident 'attuned' him to seeing death (which he shouldn't normally be able to) his puny brain meats are straining from looking at that-which-should-not-be.

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