Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 99

Thread: Holding Back the Sea [Percy Jackson and the Olympians/Fate/Stay Night]

  1. #41
    夜魔 Nightmare Garlak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Age
    34
    Posts
    280
    Someone, in some other thread, story, BROB/Quest or whatever, brought up the point that the Grail grants two wishes. One for the Master, and one for the Servant. They seemed pretty sure of that. Is that, in fact, the case?
    The telescope at one end of his beat
    And at the other end the microscope,
    Two instruments of nearly equal hope,
    And in conjunction giving quite a spread.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by LeopardBear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that only applies to heroic spirits and other magical constructs, because there's no way in hell an ancient warship could defeat a modern one.
    This is Nasu. A trireme would totally ram a 122 gun SotL and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mereo Flere View Post
    But it's mostly the arguments. This had to be my favorite moment:

    "You don't own BL."
    "Actually, he does..."
    "Well, he may legally own it, but it's not morally right, just like giving cancer sticks to children and being Satan. N-not that I'm comparing him to those or anything, baka."

  2. #42
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    England, UK
    Age
    39
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22,666
    Blog Entries
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Garlak View Post
    Someone, in some other thread, story, BROB/Quest or whatever, brought up the point that the Grail grants two wishes. One for the Master, and one for the Servant. They seemed pretty sure of that. Is that, in fact, the case?
    The Grail doesn't "grant wishes" as such, I believe. It's just a huge collection of prana that, as a consequence, allows the wielder to bring about virtually any outcome they desire. It's not clear how that turns into a wish for the master and servant, but I think that that is the intention or, at least, that the servants are supposed to think they get a wish alongside the master.

  3. #43
    Ahahahahahahaha! Hymn of Ragnarok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,983
    Blog Entries
    2
    *cheers all over again*

    I've always loved this chapter. This is how you write a real White Knight people. No posturing, no speeches, no schadenfreude, just smooth efficiancy to do the maximum good with minimal risk.

    Also, Terry Pratchett is extremely relevant here.

    "If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power... they will talk, they will gloat. So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word.”

    So nice to see that sentiment put into practice. Makes me smile every time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok
    I refuse to believe that any eroge scene with Taiga would not make allusions to her Christmas Cake status, and this being Nasu, include references to making a cake. Stirring the batter, whisking the eggs, swirl the mixture around....
    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam
    ....

    IS THIS REVENGE, HYMN? REVENGE FOR ALL THE ABUSE I PUT YOU THROUGH?
    That's all, folks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy, Vlad_the_II (3 times), Radiantbeam (5 times), YeOfLittleFaith, Ars Poetica, The Curious Fan, Raven2785, zhead
    Damn you Hymn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach, KAIZA (2 times), Old_Iron, YeOfLittleFaith (2 times), Trevelyan, ianmuff, ZidanReign, Sage of Eyes, legoguydude, KooriRenchuu, Break, Keyne
    Bless you Hymn.

  4. #44
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    England, UK
    Age
    39
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22,666
    Blog Entries
    8
    Yeah, he just shows up, kills the monster (and, let's be honest, Zouken is a monster) and saves the innocent child. As much as he wanted to punish Zouken for what he's done (and, honestly, who can blame him...?), the most important thing was to save Sakura and ensure that Zouken can never harm anyone else again.

  5. #45
    Ahahahahahahaha! Hymn of Ragnarok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,983
    Blog Entries
    2
    Pretty much.

    Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Riptude can only kill monsters. So Zouken has already met the literal qualifications of monsterhood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok
    I refuse to believe that any eroge scene with Taiga would not make allusions to her Christmas Cake status, and this being Nasu, include references to making a cake. Stirring the batter, whisking the eggs, swirl the mixture around....
    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam
    ....

    IS THIS REVENGE, HYMN? REVENGE FOR ALL THE ABUSE I PUT YOU THROUGH?
    That's all, folks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy, Vlad_the_II (3 times), Radiantbeam (5 times), YeOfLittleFaith, Ars Poetica, The Curious Fan, Raven2785, zhead
    Damn you Hymn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach, KAIZA (2 times), Old_Iron, YeOfLittleFaith (2 times), Trevelyan, ianmuff, ZidanReign, Sage of Eyes, legoguydude, KooriRenchuu, Break, Keyne
    Bless you Hymn.

  6. #46
    New E Tom B NuitTombee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Age
    34
    Posts
    455
    Blog Entries
    3
    Riptide*

    And, IIRC, it can hurt gods and demi-gods as well.

  7. #47
    Ahahahahahahaha! Hymn of Ragnarok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,983
    Blog Entries
    2
    *facepalms*

    Wow, that's just embarassing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok
    I refuse to believe that any eroge scene with Taiga would not make allusions to her Christmas Cake status, and this being Nasu, include references to making a cake. Stirring the batter, whisking the eggs, swirl the mixture around....
    Quote Originally Posted by RadiantBeam
    ....

    IS THIS REVENGE, HYMN? REVENGE FOR ALL THE ABUSE I PUT YOU THROUGH?
    That's all, folks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy, Vlad_the_II (3 times), Radiantbeam (5 times), YeOfLittleFaith, Ars Poetica, The Curious Fan, Raven2785, zhead
    Damn you Hymn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach, KAIZA (2 times), Old_Iron, YeOfLittleFaith (2 times), Trevelyan, ianmuff, ZidanReign, Sage of Eyes, legoguydude, KooriRenchuu, Break, Keyne
    Bless you Hymn.

  8. #48
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    England, UK
    Age
    39
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22,666
    Blog Entries
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hymn of Ragnarok View Post
    Pretty much.

    Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Riptude can only kill monsters. So Zouken has already met the literal qualifications of monsterhood.
    I see....

    Well, he's a 500-year-old semi-immortal collection of penis worms. I don't think you could really call him anything but a "monster". The only difference is that he became a monster out of choice.

  9. #49
    Someone, in some other thread, story, BROB/Quest or whatever, brought up the point that the Grail grants two wishes. One for the Master, and one for the Servant. They seemed pretty sure of that. Is that, in fact, the case?


    I'm pretty sure it's not, or I don't recall any such thing. The original idea was that the Grail would open a path to the Root with the energy provided by seven dead Servants, after all.

    Actually, if I'm not mistaken, Riptude can only kill monsters. So Zouken has already met the literal qualifications of monsterhood.
    It can hurt all sorts of things, including Gods, Demigods, Monsters, Titans, Giants, and the Undead. It even works on the Sorceresses Medea and Circe, though Medea was undead at the time and Circe is a Goddess herself.

    (Also, they're both technically Goddesses. Including Medea. Her father Aeetes is a God (son of Helios and an Oceanid (a minor Goddess)) and her mother was Eidyia was the daughter of (Oceanus and Tethys, making here 100% Goddess). But I don't think Riordan knew that, since it's not common knowledge, so where it falls with normal Magi is still up for debate.

  10. #50
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    England, UK
    Age
    39
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22,666
    Blog Entries
    8
    Well, Zouken is pretty much "undead" anyway, so I think it makes perfect sense for it to work on him.

  11. #51
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Perilous Hall
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,736
    Blog Entries
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuugi View Post
    (Also, they're both technically Goddesses. Including Medea. Her father Aeetes is a God (son of Helios and an Oceanid (a minor Goddess)) and her mother was Eidyia was the daughter of (Oceanus and Tethys, making here 100% Goddess). But I don't think Riordan knew that, since it's not common knowledge, so where it falls with normal Magi is still up for debate.
    Divinity is not an absolute bloodline trait. As noted by me here, there are a number of mortals born of two immortal parents. For a more direct point of comparison, Dionysos the god is the offspring of Zeus and a mortal. Sarpedon the mortal is the son of Zeus and a mortal. It's a bloody great toss-up as to what will happen.

    I can also add the idea of mortal heroes being worshipped after their deaths: Herakles and Achilles are the famous ones, but it's very common, and the worship persists into the Classical era. And Aeëtes' descent from gods/thence Medea's descent is pretty prominently mentioned in the usual mythological reference points (Diodorus, Hyginus, Apollodorus, etc. and Apollonius' Argonautica), so it should be difficult to miss it. It seems unlikely to me that this would be unknown to a professor of Classics - although, his Wiki page only credits him as a middle-school teacher, with no tertiary education in the subject. Anyway, I think he's quite right to make Medea mortal - whilst lots of Classical sources associate her strongly with the divine, she is never a goddess pretending mortality on some whim.
    Beast's Lair: Useful Notes
    (Lightweight | PDF)
    Updated 01/01/15

    If posts are off-topic, trolling, terrible or offensive, please allow me to do my job. Reporting keeps your forum healthy.
    Seika moderates: modly clarifications, explanations, Q&A, and the British conspiracy to de-codify BL's constitution.

    Democracy on Beast's Lair

  12. #52
    Divinity is not an absolute bloodline trait. As noted by me here, there are a number of mortals born of two immortal parents. For a more direct point of comparison, Dionysos the god is the offspring of Zeus and a mortal.
    Dionysus is a bit of a special case, though, since he was 'twice-born' and all. Either he was born Zagreus, from Persephone and Zeus, but torn to pieces by Titans, and then his still beating heart was feed to Semele or Semele died after she saw Zeus' form and then he was sown into Zeus thigh and born again. Either way, that could affect his birth a lot.

    Sarpedon the mortal is the son of Zeus and a mortal. It's a bloody great toss-up as to what will happen.
    Was Sarpedon a mortal? I hadn't heard anything that said he wasn't a Demigod.

    But regardless, I don't really remember anyone besides Medea who technically has full divine blood not considered divine. Hell, her aunt was flat-out considered a Goddess. So I always found it weird, because she's not even mentioned as a demigod, or part god from what I recall. It's been awhile.

    And Aeëtes' descent from gods/thence Medea's descent is pretty prominently mentioned in the usual mythological reference points (Diodorus, Hyginus, Apollodorus, etc. and Apollonius' Argonautica), so it should be difficult to miss it. It seems unlikely to me that this would be unknown to a professor of Classics - although, his Wiki page only credits him as a middle-school teacher, with no tertiary education in the subject. Anyway, I think he's quite right to make Medea mortal - whilst lots of Classical sources associate her strongly with the divine, she is never a goddess pretending mortality on some whim.
    Everyone knows about Aeetes, but I've come across a lot less that knew about Eidyia, too. Also, he may know and it just didn't come up. I wouldn't know; I don't know the guy.

  13. #53
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Perilous Hall
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,736
    Blog Entries
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuugi View Post
    Dionysus is a bit of a special case, though, since he was 'twice-born' and all. Either he was born Zagreus, from Persephone and Zeus, but torn to pieces by Titans, and then his still beating heart was feed to Semele or Semele died after she saw Zeus' form and then he was sown into Zeus thigh and born again. Either way, that could affect his birth a lot.
    Perhaps it did, perhaps it didn't. Either way, it supports my point that bloodline is far from the only factor in Greek godhood.

    Was Sarpedon a mortal? I hadn't heard anything that said he wasn't a Demigod.
    Well, it depends on the definition of 'demi-god'. But put it this way: if you've been born of a mortal parent and a divine one, you will either be a god (Dionysos) or a mortal. If you're mortal, you will be extra-special on account of being the son/daughter of a god - probably stronger, more beautiful and so on - but you will still be quite liable to die. In that sense, 'demi-god' is simply a special (somewhat superior) sub-set of 'all mortals'. Sarpedon is both demi-god and mortal. Hence, you know, his dying in the Iliad.

    But regardless, I don't really remember anyone besides Medea who technically has full divine blood not considered divine. Hell, her aunt was flat-out considered a Goddess. So I always found it weird, because she's not even mentioned as a demigod, or part god from what I recall. It's been awhile.
    Well, for a start, Aeëtes, her actual father. Pretty patently not a god: no mention of him being a god, no Olympian scenes, no consultation with the rest of the gods and so on. He's treated like any other mortal offspring of a god. (And I should stress at this stage that this does therefore mean that Medea is actually the daughter of a god and a mortal, albeit a mortal with full divine heritage himself). If you followed that link I gave you, then you'll also have seen that Aiakos is likewise born of two immortals in all the primary accounts I researched for that occasion. I also speculated that Endeis (most often a daughter of two immortals, though not necessarily, and one of those immortals is pretty low-ranking) would have been mortal, since Peleus' very mortal status is a pretty big thing, and you'd expect some mentions of an immortal mother. Particularly in Homer, since it would so strongly parallel the situation of Thetis and Achilles. However, even though I find it very likely, it can't be proven as there is almost nothing about Endeis. Anyway, that's at least one pretty famous example.

    Everyone knows about Aeetes, but I've come across a lot less that knew about Eidyia, too. Also, he may know and it just didn't come up. I wouldn't know; I don't know the guy.
    You've told me that he's done his research. I can't imagine him missing such a basic fact as Medea's or Aeëtes' parentage. As I've said, it's pretty evident in primary sources, and it should be in any secondary source with pretensions to scholarly merit. Again, I think it more likely that he just followed the ancient and modern consensus that Aeëtes was a mortal son of two gods, with Medea thereby becoming the daughter of a mortal and a god.
    Last edited by Seika; February 24th, 2012 at 11:06 PM.
    Beast's Lair: Useful Notes
    (Lightweight | PDF)
    Updated 01/01/15

    If posts are off-topic, trolling, terrible or offensive, please allow me to do my job. Reporting keeps your forum healthy.
    Seika moderates: modly clarifications, explanations, Q&A, and the British conspiracy to de-codify BL's constitution.

    Democracy on Beast's Lair

  14. #54
    Perhaps it did, perhaps it didn't. Either way, it supports my point that bloodline is far from the only factor in Greek godhood.
    True enough.

    Well, it depends on the definition of 'demi-god'. But put it this way: if you've been born of a mortal parent and a divine one, you will either be a god (Dionysos) or a mortal. If you're mortal, you will be extra-special on account of being the son/daughter of a god - probably stronger, more beautiful and so on - but you will still be quite liable to die. In that sense, 'demi-god' is simply a special (somewhat superior) sub-set of 'all mortals'. Sarpedon is both demi-god and mortal. Hence, you know, his dying in the Iliad.
    Ah, okay, I was just confused then.

    Well, for a start, Aeëtes, her actual father. Pretty patently not a god: no mention of him being a god, no Olympian scenes, no consultation with the rest of the gods and so on. He's treated like any other mortal offspring of a god. (And I should stress at this stage that this does therefore mean that Medea is actually the daughter of a god and a mortal, albeit a mortal with full divine heritage himself).
    Except, you'll note that his sister Circe is a Goddess of Magic, if a minor one. His other sister, Pasiphae, was also worshiped as a Goddess. A number of Nymphs and Minor Gods don't have Olympian Scenes or scenes with other Gods.

    If you followed that link I gave you, then you'll also have seen that Aiakos is likewise born of two immortals in all the primary accounts I researched for that occasion.
    I found this.

    Pindar, Nemean Ode 7. 82 ff :
    "The almighty king of the gods [Zeus]. It was he, so runs the tale, begot great Aiakos (Aeacus) to be his son within a mortal [i.e. Aigina's] womb, and to be ruler of his country of splendid name."
    But it's just one source, so granted. It doesn't make much sense, either, since we know she was a nymph.

  15. #55
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Perilous Hall
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,736
    Blog Entries
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuugi View Post
    Except, you'll note that his sister Circe is a Goddess of Magic, if a minor one. His other sister, Pasiphae, was also worshiped as a Goddess. A number of Nymphs and Minor Gods don't have Olympian Scenes or scenes with other Gods.
    The Circe point goes both ways. You, coming from the idea that bloodlines ought to affect this, think that she's good proof that Aeëtes should also be a divinity. I, coming from the idea that it is far from fundamental, think that it's damn good evidence on my side: even a brother and sister can be of varying levels of divinity. As to the failure to have an Olympian scene, it is obviously true that not every god can have such a scene. On the other hand, they should when the subject matter (i.e. the Argonautica) impinges on them so closely. His treasure is stolen, his daughter leaves him, and his son is brutally murdered (and, if Medea is supposedly a god on account of her bloodline, why would her brother be mortal? You see this again?) Thetis doesn't normally live on Olympos and wouldn't normally be involved. But in the Iliad she has a number of Olympian scenes, because we're basically dealing with her son's anger and the determining of his fate.

    I found this.
    Pindar, Nemean Ode 7. 82 ff :
    "The almighty king of the gods [Zeus]. It was he, so runs the tale, begot great Aiakos (Aeacus) to be his son within a mortal [i.e. Aigina's] womb, and to be ruler of his country of splendid name."
    But it's just one source, so granted. It doesn't make much sense, either, since we know she was a nymph.
    Interesting, and a fair point. I will note that Pindar is trying to balance a praising of the mortal realm (because his odes celebrate victors at the various games - these being the Nemean ones, obviously), and avoiding making the mortal winners equal to gods. Actually recently browsed a book on this, so you can see it's a fairly serious topic. Anyway, that does affect his writing. For example, when he's praising a short wrestler (Isthmian 4), he makes Herakles a short wrestler (line 53). Whilst wrestling is fair, shortness is weird. The heroes are meant to be huge people - the Athenians get all excited when they find an outsize human skeleton and decide that it's Theseus', because only great heroes could be so big. *shrug*
    The real point being that Pindar may be making a reference to the winner, and therefore have to tone down the 'divnity level' of the person whom he's comparing the mortal to, lest people think he lacks respect for the gods.

    As I noted in that linked post, I did find mention when I was looking up Achilles' geneaology that Europa was sometimes the mother of Aiakos, but I couldn't find a good source for that. Maybe this is a reference to that tradition? Maybe not - I need to look up that ode properly. (ED: Nope, Aigina is clearly named elsewhere in the Ode)

    Anyway, I will argue that the overwhelming tradition is in favour of the two divine parents for Aiakos.

    Oh, er, actually? I just looked up the Ode. The translation you're using is wrong, so far as I can tell. The Greek text from 82-85:

    ... βασιλῆα δὲ θεῶν πρέπει
    δάπεδον ἂν τόδε γαρυέμεν ἁμέρᾳ
    ὀπί: λέγοντι γὰρ Αἰακόν
    __________νιν ὑπὸ ματροδόκοις γοναῖς φυτεῦσαι,
    ἐμᾷ μὲν πολίαρχον εὐωνύμῳ πάτρᾳ,
    It is right to sing of the king of the gods
    on this spot, today,
    with reverence: for they say that he begot* him, Aiakos,
    __________with** seed*** received by the mother,
    to be a leader-of-cities for my well-renowned fatherland.

    *As silly as this sounds, would you rather I said that he 'planted' his son instead?
    ** 'with' in the same sense as 'He kissed her with his lips'. In grammatical terms, the 'seed' is the instrument.
    ***This is a horrible word. The dictionary definitions are: offspring; fruit; race, stock, family; generation; that which engenders - seed (animal and plant); organs of generation (sometimes specifically for the womb); the act of generation; child-birth; cure for sterility; unity. I am deeply grateful that it was qualified by the incredibly specific word 'received by the mother' (also slightly by the fact that it's plural).

    So whoever was translating that was ... being non-literal, to put it politely. And whoever your editor was, they were apparently misled by this translation.
    Last edited by Seika; February 25th, 2012 at 12:51 PM. Reason: Sorry, forum ate half my post. Plus some later clarification.
    Beast's Lair: Useful Notes
    (Lightweight | PDF)
    Updated 01/01/15

    If posts are off-topic, trolling, terrible or offensive, please allow me to do my job. Reporting keeps your forum healthy.
    Seika moderates: modly clarifications, explanations, Q&A, and the British conspiracy to de-codify BL's constitution.

    Democracy on Beast's Lair

  16. #56
    The Circe point goes both ways. You, coming from the idea that bloodlines ought to affect this, think that she's good proof that Aeëtes should also be a divinity. I, coming from the idea that it is far from fundamental, think that it's damn good evidence on my side: even a brother and sister can be of varying levels of divinity. As to the failure to have an Olympian scene, it is obviously true that not every god can have such a scene. On the other hand, they should when the subject matter (i.e. the Argonautica) impinges on them so closely. His treasure is stolen, his daughter leaves him, and his son is brutally murdered (and, if Medea is supposedly a god, why would her brother be mortal? You see this again?) Thetis doesn't normally live on Olympos and wouldn't normally be involved. But in the Iliad she has a number of Olympian scenes, because we're basically dealing with her son's anger.
    Ah, I forgot about her family who died. Sort of hard to consider them immortal after that, then. Conceded.

    Interesting, and a fair point. I will note that Pindar is trying to balance a praising of the mortal realm (because his odes celebrate victors at the various games - these being the Nemean ones, obviously), and avoiding making the mortal winners equal to gods. Actually recently browsed a book on this, so you can see it's a fairly serious topic. Anyway, that does affect his writing. For example, when he's praising a short wrestler (Isthmian 4), he makes Herakles a short wrestler (line 53). Whilst wrestling is fair, shortness is weird. The heroes are meant to be huge people - the Athenians get all excited when they find an outsize human skeleton and decide that it's Theseus', because only great heroes could be so big. *shrug*

    As I noted in that linked post, I did find mention when I was looking up Achilles' geneaology that Europa was sometimes the mother of Aiakos, but I couldn't find a good source for that. Maybe this is a reference to that tradition? Maybe not - I need to look up that ode properly. (ED: Nope, Aigina is clearly named elsewhere in the Ode)

    Anyway, I will argue that the overwhelming tradition is in favour of the two divine parents for Aiakos.

    Conceded, then. Curse my inability to read moon ruins myself!

    Also, if you want sources for Europa, I did find these:

    Hesiod, Catalogues of Women Fragment 19 (from scholiast on Homer's Iliad 12.292) (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or C7th B.C.) :
    "She [Europa] conceived [by Zeus] and bore three sons, Minos, Sarpedon and Rhadamanthys."
    Hesiod, Catalogues of Women Fragment 19A (from Oxyrhynchus Papyri) :
    “[Europa] bare sons to the almighty Son of Kronos [Zeus], glorious leaders of wealthy men--Minos the ruler, and just Rhadamanthys and noble Sarpedon the blameless and strong."
    Aeschylus, Fragment 50 Europa (from Papyrus) (trans. Smyth) (Greek tragedy C5th B.C.) :
    "Zeus succeed in his unlaboured theft of me [Europa] from my aged sire . . . Thrice in childbirth did I endure the pangs of womankind . . . First of these mighty implantings that I bare was Minos . . . Second, I brought forth Rhadamanthys, he who of my sons is free from death [i.e. transported to Elysion]; yet, though he lives, mine eyes behold him not."
    Again, I can't actually translate them myself, but if you're looking for sources, that might be a good place to start.

  17. #57
    祖 Ancestor nitewind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Wherever I want
    Age
    38
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,519
    As interesting as all this is, is this really the place for it?
    Spoiler:
    As a general rule I hold no opinions that I have not been paid to hold.
    I am now a beta, so if you need help with a story feel free to ask.

    Words of wisdom from ItsaRandomUsername:
    "Pssh, with proper writing almost anything can be logical. If it can work believably, then there's no reason why it shouldn't.
    Please note the keywords: "proper" and "almost". Bad storytelling mixed with nonsensical couplings are the drunk-driving of literature."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
    Nothing helps you mature more than a little murder, especially in the Nasuverse.
    We are Beast's Lair!
    Derailer among derailers!
    Look upon the continuity of thy threads ye mighty, and DESPAIR!

  18. #58
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Perilous Hall
    Age
    30
    Posts
    12,736
    Blog Entries
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuugi View Post
    Conceded, then. Curse my inability to read moon [runes] myself!
    The Moon, Japan and Greece are all the same?!


    But, yeah, not your fault at all. Just that of whichever prat decided to screw around in their translation. And a most gentlemanly concession.

    Also, if you want sources for Europa, I did find these:
    Again, I can't actually translate them myself, but if you're looking for sources, that might be a good place to start.
    Neatness! Thanks very much - I was getting quite curious after seeing that reference and it not appearing where I'd have expected it to.


    Quote Originally Posted by nitewind View Post
    As interesting as all this is, is this really the place for it?
    *shrug* Ryuugi's the OP. Besides, I think we've about wrapped the discussion up?
    Beast's Lair: Useful Notes
    (Lightweight | PDF)
    Updated 01/01/15

    If posts are off-topic, trolling, terrible or offensive, please allow me to do my job. Reporting keeps your forum healthy.
    Seika moderates: modly clarifications, explanations, Q&A, and the British conspiracy to de-codify BL's constitution.

    Democracy on Beast's Lair

  19. #59
    Holding Back the Sea
    A Soldier to War
    Percy opened the door of Kariya’s house the same way he had before, which made him increasingly aware of how easily any other Servant could break in.

    But he couldn’t work on that problem until after his Master awoke, so he put it out of his mind.

    “Are you hungry?” He asked Sakura awkwardly. “I…guess I can cook.”

    Sakura nodded before adopting a weird expression. For a moment she looked unsure, but she spoke anyway.

    “Thank you.” She said.

    Percy knew immediately that she wasn’t talking about the food.

    He smiled warmly at her and wink.

    “Don’t worry about it. I have to save any damsel in distress I come across or turn in my Hero License. It’s the rule.”

    “Are you a Hero, Jack-san?”

    Percy paused for a moment as he realized something that brought a smile to his face.

    “If I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be here.”

    It felt kind of nice, knowing that one had been recognized as a Hero and become a Heroic Spirit—for if he hadn’t, he wouldn’t have been summoned.

    Even if he was not the ‘real’ Percy Jackson, he took pride in that achievement.

    But Sakura was waiting for him, so he put the happy thought aside and looked back at the girl.

    “Tell me Sakura-chan…do you like the color blue?”

    The girl just looked at him in confusion. Chuckling, he patted her on the head.

    “Well…don’t worry about it. I was just remembering something my mother used to make me; I’m not sure how well I can imitate her, but I’ll try my best.”

    XxXXxX

    “The Tohsaka made their move last night.” Hisau Maiya said. “And while seemingly unrelated, the Matou Mansion fell.”

    Of the various forms of magecraft Kiritsugu had taught her, Maiya had particular skill with the management of familiars, and he’d often trusted her with scouting and reconnaissance missions. This time, he’d assigned her to watch both the Tohsaka and Matou families—the other two great families, despite their advantages, had a simple weakness in that their locations were already defined. He didn’t even bother to ask Maiya if there had been other familiars watching, for the answer could only have been yes.

    But still…a move by one of the families wasn’t surprising, but for one to have fallen already…

    He didn’t want to admit it, but even he was surprised.

    Before Kiritsugu could raise a question, Maiya had already moved towards the TV.

    “Please, first watch the recordings of it.”

    Of course. There was no point in asking uninformed questions if he didn’t need too.

    Maiya’s prized familiars were bats, which, on Kiritsugu’s suggestion, had been equipped with CCD camera’s. The illusions and disguises of magi were often based on influencing the mind of the observes, but that sort of thing had no effect on a camera. They were also useful for rewatching, and even if they slowed down the familiar, you could always pair multiple cameras with multiple familiars to keep the option viable.

    Because of that, the entire happenings of last night was replayed. With the initial surprise of the Matou’s fall out of the way, Kiritsugu watched Tohsaka Tokiomi’s golden servant obliterate a white masked Servannt that could only have been Assassin.

    It could have been nothing more than what it seemed.

    But situations that were exactly what they seemed were pretty rare for Kiritsugu, at least when he was on a mission.

    Still, times like these were the reason he had a second opinion.

    “What do you think?”

    “It went too well.” Maiya asked repeatedly. “The time between Assassin’s arrival and that Servant’s response was too small. Disregarding the possibility that he was in exactly the right place at exactly the right time, it seems likely that Tohsaka’s Servant was ready for them. I could accept it if it had been any other Servant, but it was an Assassin with the ability of ‘Presence Concealment.’ It seems probable that Tohsaka had been aware of the attack prior to it.”

    Kiritsugu nodded. The assessments of both master and student were identical.

    Even so, the situation raised questions.

    “If Tohsaka knew of the attack, why make such a public display?” Rather than talking to himself, it was more like he was sharing his thoughts with Maiya, even while not expecting an answer.

    The Tohsaka family, which was now participating in its fourth Grail War, had the advantage of experience. They obviously knew that the other masters were watching them, so creating a public spectacle made little sense unless there was a hidden purpose behind it.

    The Grail War was a war of legendary heroes, meaning, of course, that all of its participants were legendary. They are all famous and the information about them was readily available, including their strong and weak points. This means, it was natural that any Master who had prepared properly for the Holy War to know everything about an enemy Servant once their identity became known.

    As such, it was an iron-clad rule that all Servant’s hide their true identities, which was why they were all called by their class names.

    In Assassin’s public execution, Tohsaka revealed two things—his Servant’s appearance and a form of attack that looked like a Noble Phantasm. Neither were enough for Kiritsugu to identify the Servant, but it was a risk that could have easily been avoided. If he was aware of Assassin’s presence and wished for his death, his Servant could have easily done it outside the view of the watching Masters.

    “He showed us something he didn’t have too—which means he wanted to show us.” Maiya stated.

    “Possibly. And if that’s the case, the reason is obvious…Maiya, what happened to the Master of Assassin?”

    “He requested the Church supervisors protection last night. His name was Kotomine Kirei.”

    At the name, Kiritsugu’s eyes went cold.

    “Send a familiar to watch the Church. One should be fine for now.”

    “…Is that okay? The Church is an area where conflict between the Master’s is supposed to be prohibited.”

    “It’s only breaking the rules if someone finds out about it. Stay at a safe distance and see that they don’t.”

    “…Understood.”

    Not understanding Kiritsugu’s orders, but also not questioning them, Maiya switched tapes and began to play the events that had unfolded at the Matou household.

    This time, there wasn’t much to see. For several minutes, Kiritsugu simply watched a recording of the front of the Matou household. He didn’t bother asking what he was waiting for; if Maiya wanted him to see it, it was important, and he’d know when he saw it.

    And then a man carrying a small child literally ran out of the house, pulling with him a bag and running to his car.

    “Matou Byakuya and Matou Shinji.” Maiya supplied.

    “What are they running from?” He asked, glancing at her.

    “No one was recorded entering the house,” Maiya said meaningfully. “But someone certainly left.”

    Turning his eyes back to the screen, he was just in time to witness a man leave the house, carrying a small girl.

    “Matou Sakura—formerly, Tohsaka Sakura, being carried by a man who was never recorded entering the house.”

    A Servant. Even without Maiya’s words, that conclusion was obvious. The black haired main stood, proud and confident, exiting the house like a triumphant conqueror. He was covered in bronze armor, though it was hard to make out precise details at the distance the Familiar had been recording at.

    And if his attire and unexplained arrival at the house didn’t prove his nature, the supernatural speed with which he left the scene did.

    “And what of the Family Head, Matou Zouken, and the Master, Matou Kariya?”

    “Unknown. Neither was recorded leaving the house since my familiars were in place.”

    “What do you know of Matou Sakura?” Kiritsugu asked, as his research had not been focused on the younger members of the Matou Household.

    “Little, except that she was formerly Tohsaka Sakura, and was given to their old allies, the Matou’s, approximately one year ago. However…I looked into who might take an interest in her, and only two people seem probable. Tohsaka Tokiomi, her biological father, and Matou Kariya, a friend of Tohsaka Aoi and now her uncle. And…”

    “And Tohsaka already has a Servant.” Kiritsugu finished. “Could they be working together? If Matou Kariya was a friend of Tohsaka’s wife and now the uncle of one of his daughters…”

    “All records seem to imply that they had a falling out approximately one year ago.” Maiya said, in a tone that implied nothing.

    Kiritsugu understood her nonetheless.

    “At which point, Tohsaka had already been chosen by the Holy Grail and Matou Kariya was designated as the intended Master for the Matou family.” He said. “As well as when the prodigal son returned to the Matou family and was quickly accepted as the Master in the upcoming war.”

    “You think they’ve been working together.”

    Kiritsugu wasn’t sure how to answer. Up to this point, he’d been sure that the conflict between Tohsaka Tokiomi and Matou Kariya had been real. And he’d thought Matou Zouken’s acceptance of his nephew, who’d strangely decided to return, was an act of desperation.

    And yet…

    “I don’t know what to think yet. But I know that Matou Kariya’s first target was not his supposed enemy Tohsaka Tokiomi, but his own Uncle, Zouken. I think that Tohsaka’s daughter, Sakura, was, for some reason, spared from the violence in the Matou Household and taken to a different location, completely unharmed. I think Zouken was never recorded leaving, while his Eldest Son and Grandson were sent fleeing. I think that if, theoretically, someone chose to oppose an alliance between the Tohsaka’s and the Matou’s, everyone in a position to realistically do so is either dead or gone. And I think that everything which happened at the Matou Household, perhaps by coincidence, took place while everyone was busy looking at Tohsaka’s Servant.”

    “And if that theory happens to be correct…” Maiya began, looking at the screen once more. “Then Tohsaka may as well have two Servants. In the worst case scenario…of the three Knight Classes, Lancer and Archer are both unaccounted for.”

    No. That wasn’t the worst case scenario.

    The worst case scenario was that his suspicions were correct and everything that happened at the Tohsaka manor was an act and Assassin was, somehow, still alive. In which case, there was a team of three Servants in this war, including an Assassin that nobody would suspect.

    And he wasn’t sure the other two Servants being Archer and Lancer was the worst possibility.

    Just the worst one he’d thought of yet.

    But no matter what-whether it was a ploy or there was a team of Servants—one thing was absolutely certain.

    In this city, there were now two Servants with unknown classes and no real evidence for which they belonged to or their true identities, except for the fact that they could not be Saber or Assassin.

    And if that was the best case scenario, he wasn’t comforted.

    XxXXxX

    Beside the city of Fuyuki, a plane landed, and with its arrival, the last of the Seven Servants arrived.

    Even if it was winter in Japan, it couldn’t even be compared to the frigid cold of Einsbern Castle. Or, perhaps, it was simply the fact that this was the first time Irisviel was been allowed to move freely and leave the castle.

    Either way, as the Homunculus stepped out of the plane, sincere happiness filled her heart.

    In order to avoid drawing attention to themselves, both Irisviel and Saber had put aside their usual clothing and disguised themselves in order to blend in with the people of the city.

    Or, at least, that was the intention. But perhaps a Homunculus raised in a secluded castle and a king from an era over a thousand years before the modern one were not the best judges of ‘common sense.’

    With her silk blouse, knee-high boots, and silver fox-fur coat, Irisviel failed utterly in her attempts to blend in with the people of Japan. But given her long silver hair and beauty, it would have been impossible for her to fade into the crowd to begin with.

    Completely oblivious to this fact, the smiling woman turned and smiled brightly at her companion.

    The soul of the hero Arturia functioned differently from other Heroic Spirits, though she didn’t know why. Even now, she was unable to dematerialize. That draw back wasn’t something that could be easily accounted for—unlike all the other Servants, Saber couldn’t abandon her physical form to preserve her Master’s prana. More than that, she couldn’t go invisible to avoid drawing attention, so they’d had to dress her in modern styles and had her accompany Irisviel.

    And rather than being worried about the downsides, Irisviel was amused.

    Glancing quickly at the Servant, she turned her face away and laughed quietly.

    Saber looked at her silently for a long moment.

    “…When you laugh like that, it means you’re hiding something. Tell me what it is.”

    “It’s not a problem for you to remain physical; as long as you do, I get to have fun choosing your clothes like this.

    The reborn hero, a woman who wasn’t even 155 centimeters, was dressed in a dark, French suit, and once more disguised as a man.

    Whether it was the suit or her features, the fact remained that she blended in no better than Irisviel.

    Still, even having been dead in every way that mattered for many centuries, the King still had a basic grasp of the modern era. Looking down at herself, she had to ask.

    “Irisviel, are these clothes really fit for walking around town?”

    XxXXxX

    Several hours after eating breakfast, Sakura had decided to go to sleep—on his lap. Sitting around waiting for his Master to wake up while a small girl slept on top of him wasn’t the most exciting experience of his life, but Sakura had grown attached to him since he’d saved her, and he didn’t have the heart to tell her she couldn’t.

    Percy kind of wanted to go to sleep, even if he didn’t really need too. He had a short attention span and had been waiting for his master to wake up for more than twelve hours—eight of which had been spent with a little girl sleeping on top of him. He was bored.

    But he was also a Servant and he now had a duty to protect two people. He’d already proven how easy it was for a Servant to invade someone’s house and kill them, even if they weren’t Assassin. At least this way, he should be able to sense the presence of other Servants, except ones with Presence Concealment.

    Further, he kept the people he was trying to protect close by, in case something happened.

    Which, again, it hadn’t.

    As it was, he was beginning to worry about the amount of prana he was wasting, simply by staying materialized.

    But then his Master awoke.

    “Berserker?” He immediately asked.

    “I’m right here.” He said, keeping his voice low. “Please be quieter, Master.”

    Kariya blinked a few times to correct his blurred vision, turning his head towards his Servant and promptly freezing at the sight.

    “Sakura?” He asked, his voice nearly ragged.

    Berserker rested a hand gently on the girl’s head.

    “She’s sleeping. She’s had a long…year, you said?”

    Kariya completely ignored the question. Standing so quickly that he nearly fell over, he quickly shuffled towards them, his speed making his limp all the more pronounced.

    Not so much kneeling as collapsing to his knees, he reached out towards Sakura with trembling hands, only to draw back, not wanting to wake her.

    “How…? Why…?” He asked, unable to even comprehend the situation.

    “It was your wish to save her, Kariya,” Percy said. “And your wish is my command.”

    XxXXxX

    Moving as gently as he could to avoid waking Sakura, he set her down and followed Kariya into another room of the house. He didn’t know which one—he hadn’t really had a chance to go exploring.

    Kariya stood by a window, looking even weaker than before, even though only a day had passed. His Servant quickly joined him, scanning the outside of the house. He didn’t sense any other Servants, but he still didn’t know where Assassin was. The thought that a Servant, even a physically weak one, could be watching him or preparing his attack without him ever knowing was nerve-wracking. He’d need to find that Servant and kill him as soon as possible; only then would he be able to guarantee his Master’s safety.

    “What happened?” Kariya demanded, though he kept his voice low as his Servant had asked.

    “I promised that when you awoke, I would provide proof that you summoned exactly who you needed.” Percy smiled. “And maybe I wanted to be a hero again, just for a little while. I wanted to show you that I’m not summon who needs to be forced into helping people. And also…your method was too slow. If I had to beat every Servant to save her, it would have taken all week. So I just went and saved her myself.”

    Kariya let out a sound that could have been a laugh or a choking cough.

    “And Zouken?”

    “Dead. I cut off his head.”

    Kariya looked relieved, but also concerned.

    “In the basement,” He said. “There are thousands of worms. They’re Zouken’s and it would be dangerous to leave them there—“

    “Then it’s a good thing I killed them all, too. I hope you weren’t too attached to that house—there’s a lot of property damage, now.”

    “I’m not, and I’d be just as happy if I never went back again. I wouldn’t have in the first place, if not for Sakura.” He grimaced. “What about my brother and Shinji?”

    “The man and the boy? I scared them off. They were gone by the time Sakura and I left.”

    Kariya swallowed, beginning to let himself believe it was really over—that Sakura was really safe and Zouken really dead. It was like something out of a dream for him—something he’d desired and strived for, but could scarcely believe was actually possible, much less this easy.

    “Thank you. Thank you so much. The Grail War hasn’t even begun and yet, my wish has already been granted.” He said, bowing as deeply as he could in his state.

    And then, he hesitated.

    If his wish had been granted, then he had no need to take part in the Holy Grail War.

    Which was the same as saying: He didn’t need a Servant any longer.

    And yet, for someone who’d done for him what his Servant had done, dispelling him was something he couldn’t even consider. Yet, at the same time, keeping him around meant that he would have to constantly fight for his life against the other Servants.

    Once again, Kariya realized the tragedy inherent in the Servant system—great heroes resurrected for the sole purpose of fighting to death for the wishes of others. But even so…he could not say he regretted in the least his summoning of Berserker.

    But in that case, wouldn’t it make more sense to ask Berserker for his own opinion?

    “What do we do next, Berserker?”

    The Servant blinked, surprised, not so much by the question, but as if he had thought the answer obvious.

    “Naturally, I will continue to fight, Kariya.”

    “Why? For what reason do you continue to fight? You have already granted my wish, so…there is no reason for you to continue to risk your life in this war.”

    Berserker shook his head.

    “Even if your wish has been granted, my work is not yet done. Have you really not even thought about it? At this rate, you will surely die soon, Kariya.”

    The nature of what he was implying took Kariya by surprise and made him stiffen, but the Servant continued as if he hadn’t noticed.

    “At the end of this war, Servants like me will fade away, even if we survive until the end. And you…will die shortly after. And then, Sakura will be alone in this world. Surely, even if you don’t value your life, you should at least be worried about that.”

    “…Even after I am gone, it will be okay. She will still have her mother and sister—“

    “Her mother and sister could not keep her from being given to the Matou’s, Kariya.” Berserker said, having learnt the whole story from Sakura. “And so they cannot be trusted to keep her safe.”

    His words made Kariya remember the reason Sakura was no longer a Tohsaka and he clenched his hands into fists.

    “It’s because of Tokiomi,” He all but snarled. “Aoi couldn’t even hide her tears when I spoke to her a year ago, and yet Tokiomi had still given his own daughter away!”

    “Then you realize, if you give her back to them, even if Aoi and Rin disagree, they could not keep her safe. And…” Berserker paused, briefly wondering if he should say this and deciding to go for it. “How do you even know that Sakura wants to return to her family?”

    Kariya had no answer to that, so his Servant just kept talking.

    “She is your niece, now, Kariya. It is unlikely anyone would object to you looking after her. I think that she would be safest with you. Perhaps she can reconcile with her mother and sister, but it’s not something that would happen quickly, and she would need someone to watch over her, at least until she does. And I think that person should be you, Kariya, so…I still have a wish. And I am willing to fight in this Grail War if I can have it granted.”

    “…Even if that is true…if you had the Holy Grail, you could make any wish you wanted. You could even wish for a new body and live again.”

    His Servant closed his eyes and quietly chuckled.

    “That may be true, but…while it would be nice to live again, if I have been given a chance to fight for a wish and live for even just one week…I think I’d rather spend both that wish and that time saving the life of a good man, rather than waste it on things that don’t matter. I may not look it, Kariya, but I have already lived one life…I think you should have the chance to do the same.”

    And then, he surprised his Master by kneeling before him.

    “When you summoned a Hero, I was the one who responded. And I found a good man who needed help; at the very least, I think there’s a reason I am your Servant. I let my body rest under your dominion. So let thy fate rest in my blade…Matou Kariya.”

  20. #60
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    England, UK
    Age
    39
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    22,666
    Blog Entries
    8
    Hmm, nice chapter. I like Percy....

    Although, I'm not sure that Kariya would be so unsure about handing Sakura back to Aoi. After all, it was his original goal.

    Also, I have a few typos etc. that I've seen. Also, as a general grammatical comment, you keep using "'s" an a plural, for example Matou's and camera's. It should just be "Matous" and "cameras".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuugi View Post
    He smiled warmly at her and wink.
    "Smiled warmly and winked"?

    I wanted to show you that I’m not summon who needs to be forced into helping people.
    "Not someone"?

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •