4.2 Upgrade Complete.

[Mike1984]

Actually Mike, if you responded like this all the time and didn't use that many quotes, you might find the word limit a little more palatable.

Plus, it would help your stances as it would then look like you're actually arguing against concepts and premises in the other person's posts, as opposed to coming off as overly pedantic. Might want to sub out the cursing for words like "absolutely despicable" though.

Quotes are useful, though, because it allows me to respond to points rather than to the post as a whole. Sometimes what you're saying is valid, but for a longer post it doesn't work at all, and nor does it work when I'm responding to multiple posts.

[SeiKeo]

Quotes are useful, though, because it allows me to respond to points rather than to the post as a whole. Sometimes what you're saying is valid, but for a longer post it doesn't work at all, and nor does it work when I'm responding to multiple posts.

This is the problem.

[Dark Pulse]

In general, yes, but that's not always the case.

And sometimes, less is more.

Fics should not be uploaded in attachments, if that's what you're implying.

No reason they can't be.

Except that I can't make four posts in a row (at least if the system applies to blogs), because your new system won't allow it. Which was the entire point I was trying to make in the first damn place....

I mean, seriously, did you actually read a single word of what I said? Because you seem to be under the distinct impression that I'm arguing against post length limits when I'm not. Hell, you've taken so little notice of me that you even suggested the very thing I complained about not being able to do as a solution to the issue with the limit you've placed on blog post lengths....

Sure you can. Just wait a little bit. Perhaps use the time to trim it down some, too.

Either way, I need to stop the walls. Upping limits isn't going to do that - only making it become shorter is. Like it or not, this is one way to do it. Another way would be counting on you to get your point across quicker, which this assists in.

Again, sometimes less is more. Efficiency, not verbosity.

Well, yes, sure, but I needed to go through all that argument to get there.

Which isn't going to happen again; ergo, the shorter limits. If you want to put up four posts, fine, but then expect me to reply using only one.

Well, I've never seen an issue with posts, but I'm not convinced about the blogs. But, whatever.

The only time blogs turned into an issue was when you and I argued. Otherwise there was never a reason to raise it even above 10,000. 25,000 is a decent medium without making it inflate as quickly as the posts table has.

Those are all reasons to have a post limit, yes, and I fully accept them.

However, my original point was not that post length limits are a bad thing, it's that, occasionally, there is a need to bypass them, and the ability to double-post allows for that. If the double-post protection doesn't allow for merging posts beyond the post length limit, then it will simply not be possible for someone to do that under any circumstances. And that, to me, is a bad thing, because inflexible rules like that just hinder people.

...Or just wait ten damn minutes. Is it going to bug you that much to go post in a few other threads, if for some reason you absolutely, positively, somehow cannot say what you need to say in a single post?

They're cut off but no longer painful! <3

No they're not.

[Mike1984]

And sometimes, less is more.

For you, perhaps. But, of course, you're in charge, so as far as you're concerned your opinion is the only one that matters....

No reason they can't be.

Because attachments are a pain in the ass to read. For one thing, half the people on this board seem to automatically assume that everyone has MS Word.

Sure you can. Just wait a little bit. Perhaps use the time to trim it down some, too.

No, you can't, because the person replying will see half a post to reply to.

Either way, I need to stop the walls. Upping limits isn't going to do that - only making it become shorter is. Like it or not, this is one way to do it. Another way would be counting on you to get your point across quicker, which this assists in.

Why do you "need to stop the walls"?

Sure, every post being 100,000 words would be a bad thing, but that's not going to happen. The only real argument for a post length limit is the possibility of spammers. Other than that, if the limit is too short for large numbers of people to do what they wish to do, then you will eventually be forced to raise it anyway, and if it's not then it won't matter. There is no reason to limit the post length or blog comment length just to get rid of one or two long posts. It makes no significant difference to the total size of the post table.

Again, sometimes less is more. Efficiency, not verbosity.

And sometimes it is not.

Which isn't going to happen again; ergo, the shorter limits. If you want to put up four posts, fine, but then expect me to reply using only one.

That's fine, as long as I can do that. But, I can't, if your system works as I fear it will.

The only time blogs turned into an issue was when you and I argued. Otherwise there was never a reason to raise it even above 10,000. 25,000 is a decent medium without making it inflate as quickly as the posts table has.

Well, I agree that you usually won't need long comments in a blog but, then, if no-one ever goes up to the post length limit, then it doesn't matter anyway.

...Or just wait ten damn minutes. Is it going to bug you that much to go post in a few other threads, if for some reason you absolutely, positively, somehow cannot say what you need to say in a single post?

Yes, because you will respond to half a post, which might change how you read it entirely.

[SeiKeo]

Because attachments are a pain in the ass to read. For one thing, half the people on this board seem to automatically assume that everyone has MS Word.

You have no program capable of reading .doc files?

[Cruor]

Any circumstances? Couldn't they just wait 10 minutes or an hour or whatever it is?

Well, that's kinda the thing, the only time you make a post that huge is if you are in an argument and the other guy is reloading the page every five seconds waiting for your reply and then this post limit thing also screws him up.

But yeah, again, the reason I keep making multiple posts is exactly because of this reason. Because there are crazies who reload the page every five seconds for a new post here and will not notice any changes to your post unless you make another one. And then they reply to the old one before the second post and/or ensuing edits and then some people read the quote from the reply. Which fucks everything up. Otherwise, I'm kinda okay with this.

[Kyte]

I don't think fics as attachments would work. If it's txt, you lose all formatting plus endline weirdness. If it's doc, you run into import issues. If it's HTML, some browsers try to download them instead of displaying directly. Smartphones are good for reading while in the commute but don't deal with attachments. Blah blah.
Plus it's more of a hassle to both post and edit. Some of our writers are really, really, really tech-unsavvy.

Well, that's kinda the thing, the only time you make a post that huge is if you are in an argument and the other guy is reloading the page every five seconds waiting for your reply and then this post limit thing also screws him up.

But yeah, again, the reason I keep making multiple posts is exactly because of this reason. Because their are crazies who reload the page every five seconds for a new post here and will not notice any changes to your post unless you make another one. And then they reply tot he old one and then other people read the quote. Which fucks everything up. Otherwise, I'm kinda okay with this.

You shouldn't encourage that behavior. Plus, if you find your edit ignored, just cut it and repaste it into a new post. :V

[Mike1984]

You have no program capable of reading .doc files?

.doc files are fine, .docx files are not.

But, regardless, people browse this site from all sorts of places, including phones. Assuming that everyone can read attachments of any kind is just wishful thinking.

[Cruor]

You shouldn't encourage that behavior. Plus, if you find your edit ignored, just cut it and repaste it into a new post. :V

Nah, here's the thing, I'm the type that makes hundreds of edits to a post as my initial one normally makes little sense. And then immediately someone replies to it 10 seconds after I posted (srsly, some people in GD do this when its a big argument I am not making that part up literally a page a minute). Also, how can I repaste it when it gets added to my next post? Also, again, this is gonna really mess up arguments as then no one can really reply to later posts for 10 minutes.

But yeah, I started to do it after I saw someone make a post on the post number ending in 8/9/0 area back when there were only 10 posts per page and someone quotes a small line that was pretty sarcastic and then they changed to to say something more literal and then one guy replied to the sarcastic on the next page and nobody bothered going back to the page before and everyone literally copy and pasted the quote and made their own reply without actually looking at the post. It was hilarious. So yeah, while this should work in theory it doesn't work on some parts of BL like during the huge argument moments that often go on when everyone is talking as if they are on fire or some shit.

In other words 10 minute wait too long for the big arguments lolololol.

[Kyte]

Fair enough. That's how forums live, I guess.

Or you could try to make your point clear before posting and leave the edits for minor cosmetic changes, addenda and the like. Don't use the edit as preview. :P

[Dark Pulse]

For you, perhaps. But, of course, you're in charge, so as far as you're concerned your opinion is the only one that matters....

Done for the good of the board. None of the rest of the board felt even a 10,000 character limit was "too tight" for blogs, or if they did, they did a very poor job of communicating that to me.

You're the only one who seems to really fight the text limits, at this point.

Because attachments are a pain in the ass to read. For one thing, half the people on this board seem to automatically assume that everyone has MS Word.

OpenOffice. Heard of it? It works just fine. If you don't like that, there's also LibreOffice. Both are 100% free.

No, you can't, because the person replying will see half a post to reply to.

If they're writing a longer post and it must be split for some reason, they could always add on a note or something.

Why do you "need to stop the walls"?

Sure, every post being 100,000 words would be a bad thing, but that's not going to happen. The only real argument for a post length limit is the possibility of spammers. Other than that, if the limit is too short for large numbers of people to do what they wish to do, then you will eventually be forced to raise it anyway, and if it's not then it won't matter. There is no reason to limit the post length or blog comment length just to get rid of one or two long posts. It makes no significant difference to the total size of the post table.

Because it's fucking annoying to everyone else to see them.

Also, every character typed, in every post, takes a byte of space (and potentially more if it's kanji or whatever). The more you allow in a post, the quicker (and more exponential, in theory) the post table grows. While it's true that most blogs will never hit that limit, the way that vBulletin stores posts (in an SQL database) means that bigger posts are, simply put, less efficiently-stored than smaller ones.

Furthermore, as I said, it decreases the incidence of walls. The idea is to say what you need to say using less words, not more. Even in an argument, it should be your general views on the situation, and then, if asked or requested for clarification, should you go into detail. As they say, "keep it simple, stupid."

And sometimes it is not.

I'm sure you could reduce the size of your arguments if you actually tried. And if you don't care to try, well that's fine too, but you're going to have to wait a bit as a result, during which time you should think of how you can tighten up your argument so that it takes less words, not more, to express the same idea.

That's fine, as long as I can do that. But, I can't, if your system works as I fear it will.

Doublepost prevention works by checking if a person made a post, and then another one afterward. If there's an intervening post inbetween, the limit is waived (as it's not a doublepost). If not, it checks how long it's been; if it's 10 minutes or less, it attempts to merge them if it can. If it's more than ten minutes, it allows it as a separate post.

If it can't merge them (I don't know if it can override the per-post limit) then presumably it will spit an error to this effect, or it may simply allow it anyway.

Well, I agree that you usually won't need long comments in a blog but, then, if no-one ever goes up to the post length limit, then it doesn't matter anyway.

Because some people will just ramble on and on and on, and the more room you give them, the more they will ramble.

This is basically an automated way to tell them to STFU.

Yes, because you will respond to half a post, which might change how you read it entirely.

...Then make it shorter or else put in a "To be continued" or something.

[Mike1984]

Done for the good of the board. None of the rest of the board felt even a 10,000 character limit was "too tight" for blogs, or if they did, they did a very poor job of communicating that to me.

You're the only one who seems to really fight the text limits, at this point.

Again, the point is that you do not need that limit.

OpenOffice. Heard of it? It works just fine. If you don't like that, there's also LibreOffice.

It can't read docx files, which is what many people use. And, as I pointed out, good luck getting a phone that runs it....

If they're writing a longer post and it must be split for some reason, they could always add on a note or something.

Perhaps, but you're making it painfully awkward for people to just post normally, just because it's convinient for you to do so.

Because it's fucking annoying to everyone else to see them.

How is it?

For one thing, they do not need to read them.

Also, every character typed, in every post, takes a byte of space. The more you allow in a post, the quicker (and more exponential, in theory) the post table grows. While it's true that most blogs will never hit that limit, the way that vBulletin stores posts (in an SQL database) means that bigger posts are, simply put, less efficiently-stored than smaller ones.

Well, of course but, like I said, if the post limit is anything like reasonable, it'll rarely or never get hit anyway, so it won't matter.

Furthermore, as I said, it decreases the incidence of walls. The idea is to say what you need to say using less words, not more. Even in an argument, it should be your general views on the situation, and then, if asked or requested for clarification, should you go into detail. As they say, "keep it simple, stupid."

That's a stupid way of doing it. It just wastes effort on everyone's part to leave out important details for the sake of brevity.

I'm sure you could reduce the size of your arguments if you actually tried. And if you don't care to try, well that's fine too, but you're going to have to wait a bit as a result.

Exactly.

In other words "fuck you, if you won't do things my way, then you'll have to suffer".

Doublepost prevention works by checking if a person made a post, and then another one afterward. If there's an intervening post inbetween, the limit is waived. If not, it checks how long it's been; if it's 10 minutes or less, it attempts to merge them if it can. If it's more than ten minutes, it allows it as a separate post.

Yes, but what happens if it can't merge it, due to the post length?

Because some people will just ramble on and on and on, and the more room you give them, the more they will ramble.

This is basically an automated way to tell them STFU.

In other words, "I don't like how you talk, so fuck you". Yeah, that's about par for the course from you....

...Then make it shorter or else put in a "To be continued" or something.

That's just a dumb way of arguing. Of course, you couldn't care less, because you expect everyone to fall into fucking line and argue the DP-approved manner.

Are you going to be handing out fucking "DP-approved arguer" certificates next or something?

[Cruor]

yeah, and what if 6 posts that you could reply to by the time you finished your argument/wall-of-text-of-your-explanation-of-whatever-scene while you were making your post? And then you start to write up a reply to them (I specifically remember one time we were arguing and we somehow got so fast that we did a page in like 40 seconds so we stopped arguing just to joke about how everytime we reloaded there were two or three more posts and whatnot before going back to arguing) and you write what you want pretty fast and end up higher in the queue of posts and end up before everyone else when they spam you with replies of the previous argument and ignore everything in your new post which was put at the bottom of the old one they already replied to?

(saying such a specific event because I actually seen it happen here and it has also happened to me here)

[SeiKeo]

Are you going to be handing out fucking "DP-approved arguer" certificates next or something?

I want one.

[Lianru]

No they're not.

You changed it, no fair.

[Mike1984]

yeah, and what if 6 posts that you could reply to by the time you finished your argument/wall-of-text-of-your-explanation-of-whatever-scene while you were making your post? And then you start to write up a reply to them (I specifically remember one time we were arguing and we somehow got so fast that we did a page in like 40 seconds so we stopped arguing just to joke about how everytime we reloaded there were two or three more posts and whatnot before going back to arguing) and you write what you want pretty fast and end up higher in the queue of posts and end up before everyone else when they spam you with replies of the previous argument and ignore everything in your new post which was put at the bottom of the old one they already replied to?

(saying such a specific event because I actually seen it happen and it has also happened to me)

Well, actually, with the new system, it would work perfectly. You make your double-post, and it either gets merged into the old post or posted seperately depending on whether or not anyone posted before you.

[Cruor]

Yeah, but since you had made your second reply before everyone finished reading and replying to your jumbo wall of text you did and made replies to the parts that were relevant to their interest and made their post you had already finished writing up a reply to whatever small replies happened during the span of writing the post. In this case all of that post would be put into the old one which they already read and had replied to and were flooding the page replies so there's no way they'll check your post again to read whatever addition was done to it.

[Kyte]

Rejoice, Cruor, for now you shall double-post with impunity!

Also: GOD split that paragraph, I can't fucking read it.

Oh, and that kind of fast-paced argument needs to die, anyways.
Or maybe not, but shorter also means faster. Yayifications!

[Mike1984]

Yeah, but since you had made your second reply before everyone finished reading and replying to your jumbo wall of text you did and made replies to the parts that were relevant to their interest and made their post you had already finished writing up a reply to whatever small replies happened during the span of writing the post. In this case all of that post would be put into the old one which they already read and had replied to and were flooding the page replies so there's no way they'll check your post again to read whatever addition was done to it.

Erm, no, because if someone posted before you, then the second post will be posted just like it is now. If they didn't, then your post will be added to and will bump the thread, with the new timestamp. It's no more likely to get ignored than your double-post is.

[TypeWannabe]

Hey cool, this thing just eliminated the need for edits (prior to 10 minutes).