Marvel Cinematic Universe Discussion Thread

[Kieran]

Finally saw Thor 2.

Well, I could nitpick every instance (not really, I don't want to), but in the end let's say this movie was... really, really silly.

Not in a "what the fuck am I watching?" way, but still not in a good way. There were a lot of "mmmyeh, really, no" stuff going on.

A shame. I liked it for more or less that very reason.

Some things to say though: I realized how good Hiddleston is in portraying Loki. I mean, he is Loki, incarnated. He totally portrays a character that feels "real".

Hell, yes - and it was nice to see Thor continuing to mature.

On the other hand, though, Natalie Portman's Jane Foster is completely superfluous).

Mm, maybe a little. The problem, of course, is that Sif is also one of his love interests (to the extent that he seriously indulges in one) in the comics (not to mention his mythological wife), so Jane as a character is kind of superfluous. She's one of many mortals he flirts with over the course of his series - one of the more serious ones, true, but still not the major one.

Dem hints at the Infinity Gems~

AND THAT POST CREDIT SCENE, MEN. I was totally blown away. Like literally, "shiiiiiiiit!!". I was already surprised at Loki's betrayal, but okay, I could have expected that, but not the post credit scene!

Which one (there are two)? I assume you mean the mid-credits scene . . .?

Ah, that's him! I knew I had already seen that face!

Yeah - once you know, it's obvious, but otherwise, he's just maddeningly familiar.

To be fair (or better, as not a particular hardcore comic fan), I'd say that switching the colors (and relative powers) of some gems is a minor and overall irrelevant change.

True - and as I'm not a huge Infinity Gems nut, it's not a big deal. It's just a curiosity, since it's the kind of minor detail it seems silly to change (assuming, of course, that they have).

[Sherrinford]

A shame. I liked it for more or less that very reason.

Not that I didn't like it, but... let's say this, I would have expected something more serious and better planned out. I mean, this movie has a pretty weak backbone. Enjoyable, but it left me with a sense of "I hoped it was better". Maybe I could say that the movie was "uninspired". Oh well.

Btw, maybe it's because of those weird elves... but am I the only one who thought about Hellboy: The Golden Army during the intro? ...

Hell, yes - and it was nice to see Thor continuing to mature.

On the other hand, Odin...

Mm, maybe a little. The problem, of course, is that Sif is also one of his love interests (to the extent that he seriously indulges in one) in the comics (not to mention his mythological wife), so Jane as a character is kind of superfluous. She's one of many mortals he flirts with over the course of his series - one of the more serious ones, true, but still not the major one.

Oh, in this movie they try to make her one, but really, one or two mentions without effect.

I mean, I can understand the "damsel in distress" or the woman whose only character orbits around the male hero, but really, did Jane Foster had any raison d'etre int his mvoie? She's just a plot device, and not a particularly remarkable one at that.

Which one (there are two)? I assume you mean the mid-credits scene . . .?

Spoiler:

Yeah, Loki impersonating Odin. Which begs the question... WHERE IS ODIN?!

The Collector's scene was one of the many things that left me confused in this movie... why give something this powerful to an unrelated person, to add it to his private collection (and who happens to be after them int he first place). See, this is what I meant.

I do like his character design though. Very Dune-like.

True - and as I'm not a huge Infinity Gems nut, it's not a big deal. It's just a curiosity, since it's the kind of minor detail it seems silly to change (assuming, of course, that they have).

Although I doubt they would have to "retcon" this detail. So far, the internal continuity of Marvel's movies seems to be well planned out (or at least they can change plotpoints at the last time but doing a good job at it).

[Mattias]

The Collector's scene was one of the many things that left me confused in this movie... why give something this powerful to an unrelated person, to add it to his private collection (and who happens to be after them int he first place). See, this is what I meant.

I assume because in fiction any person who is known as the Collector very rarely want to let things go from their collection, so they invest in the most sophisticated security system they can. Otherwise everyone and their brother would be breaking into his place all the time, just because he has so much stuff.

[Kieran]

Not that I didn't like it, but... let's say this, I would have expected something more serious and better planned out. I mean, this movie has a pretty weak backbone. Enjoyable, but it left me with a sense of "I hoped it was better". Maybe I could say that the movie was "uninspired". Oh well.

There's some justification for that opinion, but since I liked both this and the prior movie as "popcorn munchers" (my term for light, brain-disengaged entertainment), I was pleased with the way it all went.

On the other hand, you have to admit - the setup for the third movie makes it look quite promising.

Btw, maybe it's because of those weird elves... but am I the only one who thought about Hellboy: The Golden Army during the intro? ...

Until just now, yes.

On the other hand, Odin...

Consider his grief over his own loss, and the fact that Jane's lifespan is a fraction of theirs - is it unbelievable that he'd wish to spare his son the suffering?

Spoiler:

Yeah, Loki impersonating Odin. Which begs the question... WHERE IS ODIN?!

Yeah, my sister and I thinking the same thing.

Oh, in this movie they try to make her one, but really, one or two mentions without effect.

I mean, I can understand the "damsel in distress" or the woman whose only character orbits around the male hero, but really, did Jane Foster had any raison d'etre int his mvoie? She's just a plot device, and not a particularly remarkable one at that.

Pretty much. Now, that said, I would have maimed for a scene where Sif and Jane had time to sit down and talk . . . Or trade threats - or punches.

The Collector's scene was one of the many things that left me confused in this movie... why give something this powerful to an unrelated person, to add it to his private collection (and who happens to be after them int he first place). See, this is what I meant.

This is a case where Infinity Gem lore is important. First, as stated, having them close together is bad - because they tend to attract the others, if nothing else. Second, the Collector is an Elder of the Universe - almost as old as Galactus, and nearly as powerful. He's noted for collecting the rare and unusual, so his security measures aren't exactly something to sneeze at. But we'll see more of him in "Guardians of the Galaxy," so it ought to fill in the gaps easily enough.

That's what teasers are for, after all - we might've seen it in "Thor," for example, but we weren't sure what the Tesseract was until "Captain America" came out.

I do like his character design though. Very Dune-like.

I'll take your word for it.

Although I doubt they would have to "retcon" this detail. So far, the internal continuity of Marvel's movies seems to be well planned out (or at least they can change plotpoints at the last time but doing a good job at it).

Yeah - hence my surprise at the minor detail. They don't tend to do that.

[Elf]

Part of the problem with Natale Portman is that Tom Hiddleston and Chris Hemmingsworth have more chemistry together than the love interest.

[Vigilantia]

Relevent:



even MORE appropriate. I think you'll remember this one Elf:

[Sherrinford]

On the other hand, you have to admit - the setup for the third movie makes it look quite promising.

OH, indeed.

Consider his grief over his own loss, and the fact that Jane's lifespan is a fraction of theirs - is it unbelievable that he'd wish to spare his son the suffering?

I'm not talking about that in particular, but... well, not to use memetic terms, but it felt like the Allfather was handed the idiot ball throughout the movie (as a personal note, it didn't help the fact that his official Italian dubber could have done a better job IMHO), right from the start of the movie (yeah Odin, piss off Loki even more...) to the end (where the heck was he when Malakit started using aether on earth? Wouldn't it have been better if he had shown up to, you know, stop him?).

Yeah, my sister and I thinking the same thing.

Even more because, well, Odin is Odin. You can't just tie his hands, gag him and put him into a locker.

Pretty much. Now, that said, I would have maimed for a scene where Sif and Jane had time to sit down and talk . . . Or trade threats - or punches.

At some points it felt like we were going to have such a scene, but then nothing. Oh well, ok.

This is a case where Infinity Gem lore is important. First, as stated, having them close together is bad - because they tend to attract the others, if nothing else. Second, the Collector is an Elder of the Universe - almost as old as Galactus, and nearly as powerful. He's noted for collecting the rare and unusual, so his security measures aren't exactly something to sneeze at. But we'll see more of him in "Guardians of the Galaxy," so it ought to fill in the gaps easily enough.

Ah, I see. But still, instead of giving it to some unaffiliated guy, I think it would have been better to hide it.

I'll take your word for it.

You haven't read Dune? (Or maybe you just haven't watched the live action adaptations?)

[Kieran]

OH, indeed.

What do you figure - 2016? Or will they try for another two-year gap between sequels?

I'm not talking about that in particular, but... well, not to use memetic terms, but it felt like the Allfather was handed the idiot ball throughout the movie (as a personal note, it didn't help the fact that his official Italian dubber could have done a better job IMHO), right from the start of the movie (yeah Odin, piss off Loki even more...) to the end (where the heck was he when Malakit started using aether on earth? Wouldn't it have been better if he had shown up to, you know, stop him?).

I can't speak for the dubber, of course - but if you think about it, the belligerent approach worked on Thor when nothing else had, so perhaps he was hoping that that was the way to reach Loki, as well. As to the end - yeah, it would've made sense, but what action movie sends in the Army to do the job at the last minute, rather than the protagonist? (Though I admit that it would've been the perfect excuse to send in Sif and the Warriors Three, again.)

Even more because, well, Odin is Odin. You can't just tie his hands, gag him and put him into a locker.

No, you really can't - so what did Loki do . . .?

At some points it felt like we were going to have such a scene, but then nothing. Oh well, ok.

"OK," yeah - but disappointing. (Mainly because I'm of the opinion that more Jaime Alexander is always a good thing. )

Ah, I see. But still, instead of giving it to some unaffiliated guy, I think it would have been better to hide it.

His collection is mostly hidden - and by the fact that they gave it to him, at least as well-secured as Asgard's vaults (which, when you consider that all of Asgard theoretically protects them, says a lot about the Collector's capabilities). *shrugs* Like I said, we'll see in "Guardians of the Galaxy."


. . . If you really want a bonehead manoeuvre, I'm trying to figure out why Marvel is releasing an "Ant-Man" movie in their Phase Three plans - Ant-Man sucks.

You haven't read Dune? (Or maybe you just haven't watched the live action adaptations?)

Neither, actually.

[Laith]

. . . If you really want a bonehead manoeuvre, I'm trying to figure out why Marvel is releasing an "Ant-Man" movie in their Phase Three plans - Ant-Man sucks.

Depends on the Ant-Man. If its Hank then yeah he sucks. More so because his reason to exist, Ultron, would already exist making him useless. Unless the movie has Wasp on it, because man did I enjoy Wasp in the Avengers cartoon.

[Kieran]

Yeah, but if that's the case, why not give her a movie of her own? Why include him at all?

[Sherrinford]

What do you figure - 2016? Or will they try for another two-year gap between sequels?

Two years seems a bit too far away in my opinion. Even more considering that I guess Loki (and "Asgard" as a whole) would have to do very little with Ultron, so I don't think that would be a tie-in for Avengers 2, more likely to Guardians of the Galaxy. Therefore there is no need to postpone Thor 3 that much. But hey, I'm very bad at this kind of guessing.

Wait a minute... if he isn't created by Pym, do we know how Ultron comes to be in the movie yet?

I can't speak for the dubber, of course - but if you think about it, the belligerent approach worked on Thor when nothing else had, so perhaps he was hoping that that was the way to reach Loki, as well.

Ah, I see your point. But Odin failed to realize that Thor's and Loki's personalities and circumstances are very different.

No, you really can't - so what did Loki do . . .?

Yeah yeah!

"OK," yeah - but disappointing. (Mainly because I'm of the opinion that more Jaime Alexander is always a good thing. )

Eh, what can you do about it. *shrugs*

. . . If you really want a bonehead manoeuvre, I'm trying to figure out why Marvel is releasing an "Ant-Man" movie in their Phase Three plans - Ant-Man sucks.

Trying to appeal to Fantastic Voyage and Honey, I Shrunk the Kids fans?

Dunno what other Avengers they could bring on the table (there surely are, but I can't think of anyone)

Neither, actually.

Then dooo eeet.

[Mcjon01]

The whole Collector scene reminded me of the Fifth Element for some reason.

[Mattias]

Depends on the Ant-Man. If its Hank then yeah he sucks. More so because his reason to exist, Ultron, would already exist making him useless. Unless the movie has Wasp on it, because man did I enjoy Wasp in the Avengers cartoon.

Apparently the movie is based on Ant Man 1&2, so Pym will be there, probably as a mentor to Lang. And the next week of SHIELD will probably be the Irredeemable version, which is the best.

[TheInfamousMan]

Apparently the movie is based on Ant Man 1&2, so Pym will be there, probably as a mentor to Lang. And the next week of SHIELD will probably be the Irredeemable version, which is the best.

Would be interesting if the Ant Man here is Hank Pym with hints of Irredeemable in it. Like he's a genius with a snarky and jerkass attitude, spends some time with his powers being just a petty asshole, and then gets a conscious and becomes a hero.

[Kieran]

Two years seems a bit too far away in my opinion. Even more considering that I guess Loki (and "Asgard" as a whole) would have to do very little with Ultron, so I don't think that would be a tie-in for Avengers 2, more likely to Guardians of the Galaxy. Therefore there is no need to postpone Thor 3 that much. But hey, I'm very bad at this kind of guessing.

Well, it takes time to film them, of course - but even if they don't include the gap in the continuity, the question is how long it'll take to create it.

Wait a minute... if he isn't created by Pym, do we know how Ultron comes to be in the movie yet?

As far as I know, yes - and the answer is fairly logical, when you think about it. It actually makes more sense than the comic-book origin. (I'm sure you can guess.)

Ah, I see your point. But Odin failed to realize that Thor's and Loki's personalities and circumstances are very different.

True - but when you're desperate, you'll try anything.

Eh, what can you do about it. *shrugs*

What I always do - gripe, of course.

Trying to appeal to Fantastic Voyage and Honey, I Shrunk the Kids fans?

Maybe, but that's awfully sad.

Dunno what other Avengers they could bring on the table (there surely are, but I can't think of anyone)

So many, it's not even funny: Wonder Man, Sersi, the Vision (since "Ant-Man" will follow "Avengers 2") - and that's just the higher-tier ones you could use as potential antagonists before recruiting them that I can think of, off the top of my head.

Then dooo eeet.

Maybe, eventually.

Apparently the movie is based on Ant Man 1&2, so Pym will be there, probably as a mentor to Lang. And the next week of SHIELD will probably be the Irredeemable version, which is the best.

Interesting . . .

Would be interesting if the Ant Man here is Hank Pym with hints of Irredeemable in it. Like he's a genius with a snarky and jerkass attitude, spends some time with his powers being just a petty asshole, and then gets a conscious and becomes a hero.

Maybe.

[Sherrinford]

As far as I know, yes - and the answer is fairly logical, when you think about it. It actually makes more sense than the comic-book origin. (I'm sure you can guess.)

I'm sorry to betray your expectations...

So many, it's not even funny: Wonder Man, Sersi, the Vision (since "Ant-Man" will follow "Avengers 2") - and that's just the higher-tier ones you could use as potential antagonists before recruiting them that I can think of, off the top of my head.

Aren't Wonder Man and Vision a bit too "cartoonish" though?

[Vigilantia]

I'm sorry to betray your expectations...



Aren't Wonder Man and Vision a bit too "cartoonish" though?

Not sure about Wonder man, but Vision is basically a sentient AI construct in an android/robot body that gains free will from it's AI creator and learns to value life instead of destroying it as its creator instructs. That's kind of easy to extrapolate that into a realistic version on the cinematic screen.

[Kieran]

I'm sorry to betray your expectations...

I shall send it to you privately.

Aren't Wonder Man and Vision a bit too "cartoonish" though?

Not sure about Wonder man, but Vision is basically a sentient AI construct in an android/robot body that gains free will from it's AI creator and learns to value life instead of destroying it as its creator instructs. That's kind of easy to extrapolate that into a realistic version on the cinematic screen.

Particularly with said creator being Ultron - it's a natural sequel progression.

[Mattias]

Particularly with said creator being Ultron - it's a natural sequel progression.

I kind of expect Vision to show up as Ultron's chief muscle in Avengers 2 and halfway through turn good and help overthrow his master.

[Kieran]

Like I said.