That, too.
That, too.
I actually decided to watch SM3 recently due to this thread! And I'm surprised to say I really enjoyed it. It's definitely a flawed movie and has a lot stuffed into it, but I think it makes the series feel like a complete story by resolving the Harry subplot running along all three films. Plus, the way it ended up being a trilogy with Spider-man's 3 biggest foes (Green Goblin, Dr. Octopus and Venom) is kind of neat.
If Raimi's Spider-man had some more jokes, then he'd definitely be the perfect film incarnation of the character. As it is, Maguire is the best Peter Parker for capturing his sheer dorkiness and his more selfish side (which Holland's Parker really lacks) and I love that Harry Osborn is such an important character throughout the movies.
I know a lot of people said that Venom's addition brings the movie down, and it's true that Raimi didn't want to include the character, but I think he was kind of necessary. I can't see Sandman being the climactic villain for Harry and Peter to team up against, and I really liked seeing those two team up. Plus the scene where Peter uses the metal poles to exploit the symbiotes weakness is really good.
Sandman's a much easier character to cut, even though Thomas Haden Church is excellently cast as him. It's true, the plot can run just fine without him (the movie starts by focusing on Peter vs Harry, then Venom comes around after Peter beats Harry and they team up) and I don't like the obvious retcon into Ben's death... but I still think I prefer him being there. A lot of the scenes he had were really good (like his forming and the deleted sandcastle scene) and he's important to the theme of revenge with Peter initially being consumed by revenge and learning to forgive him (mirrored by Harry's desire for revenge). Plus, I think it's important to have two villains for the final fight to suitably increase the stakes where Peter really needs Harry's help, as well as have a lesser threat that the two can successfully beat before Harry's sacrifice. The way Peter/Harry worked together to beat Sandman was super sweet.
Personally, I'd just change it so that he didn't accidentally shoot Ben (that's a weak resolution) because I think it works pretty well for him to shoot Ben because he THOUGHT Ben was mocking him instead of trying to help (he says as much in the film, but that's just not the reason he shot him). Then add a scene at the end where he turns himself in after Peter forgives him, and I think that's a better resolution.
Also watching this made me realize, for all the flak that MJ/the relationship writing gets, I don't mind her role either outside of getting damseled. Prior to that, she's got her own goals and we see her relationship with Peter from her perspective. It also helps that in the relationship problems they have, we can very easily see how Peter is at fault, and it's understandable that he acts that way when everything goes to his head. Just cut the part of MJ being damseled again - it'd make just as much sense for Brock to go after Gwen, giving that he was kind of obsessed with her and it could be one of the things he blamed Peter for. Or even don't have a damsel at all! Venom could just publicly threaten to expose Spider-man's identity if he doesn't come to the confrontation.
Then MJ can go and be the one to convince Harry to help Peter, similar to the editor's cut where it's looking at an old photo of them that convinces him rather than his butler. With that said, I don't really get the hate on Bernard telling him that Norman Osborn died by his own hand. The classic complaint is that he didn't tell Harry sooner, but there was no indication that Bernard knew that Harry had found out Norman was the green goblin or become the new goblin (nor any indication Bernard knew Peter was Spider-man). It makes sense for him not to tell Harry that to try and keep him in the dark and protect him (admittedly, the movie should have made that clear).
All in all, the movie could have been made a lot tighter, but I still really enjoyed it. I wish Raimi had been given a proper timeframe to work on Spider-man 4 so he didn't quit the series, it would have been cool if Raimi's Spider-man got to be part of the MCU as that would be truer to the comics with him as one of the first heroes and more of an independent character.
You know, this may be an off the wall idea, but what if Sandman was still cut and Thomas Haden Church had been cast as Eddie Brock?
Also, now I'm thinking of rewatching that movie, too. I wonder if it's on Netflix or Prime?
Yeah, it was a shame we never got to see Connors becoming the Lizard, and maybe even the creation of Carnage.Originally Posted by Saiga
Huh. Yeah, Church would make for a good Brock as well.
They also should have stuck closer to Brock's comic counterpart having cancer and going to church to ask forgiveness before he killed himself, not wanting God to kill Peter (that was dumb). Yeah, Church could make sympathetic Brock work well.
Fun while it lasted I guess.
Aw, damn it.
"Sony will be fine without Feige" Yeah, sure. Tell that to Amazing Spiderman and Venom. Literally the only success Sony has had was the one no one expected anything from, and Lord and Miller are not going to make an entire franchise for you. Unless they let them revive Clone High or something.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
Eh, this was always going to be a thing. Sony gave Spidey to Disney so they could salvage his reputation after the coathanger abortion that was their last attempt, and now they want to pump out a couple cheapies of their own to cash in on the popularity.
The fact that this will hurt the brand in the long term doesn't matter to them, not when they've proven that people will go to dumpster fires like Venom.
Seems like it was more on Disneys side than Sony. From what I hear Sony was willing to continue with the same system they had up til now: Sony funds movie and gets box office income, Disney gets merch income. But now Disney wanted half of the box office money too.
Tbh to me personally this affects MCU more than it does Spiderman. I will always watch a Spiderman movie even if its ASM2 tier, while MCU's future is looking weak as hell with mostly characters I dont have any strong feelings towards. I guess I'll check out Black Panther 2, Guradians 3 and maybe Shang Chi because martial arts, but Spidey was the only thing really keeping me invested until Xmen appear. Plus the future narrative they've been building up of Peter Stark the Ironboy-Spiderman becoming a central part of Avengers has to be rewritten. They really put too many eggs in the spidey basket.
Oh, we're gonna have a Shang-Chi movie? Cool!
Wouldn't it be terrible if Black Panther 2, or whatever the next movie is, starts with a casual reference to how Spiderman died during the manhunt for him.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
Yes. It would be terrible. For Marvel to make a move that will only alienate fans and make it really awkward if they get the right to use the character again.
I've seen this blow up with a whole lot of hate thrown Sony's way, which is incredibly unfair given that we don't know all the details of the negotiation (but what is being floated around paints this as Disney wanting more). There's always two parties in a negotiation, it's beyond asinine to blame one party as if they should have just given in to whatever the other party wants.
Holland is contracted on for another film, so it's likely Sony will continue FFH's story. Not being able to reference the MCU is going to be really weird with Peter shaping up to be an avenger and succeeding Stark. Especially with how FFH put Peter in a position where he should immediately turn to Shield for help.
I'm not terribly optimistic for the movie, but then I wasn't a huge fan of the MCU Spidey beforehand. Being separate from the MCU isn't all bad, given that they've had some absolute stinkers themselves.
So Spiderman: Homeless runt is confirmed？
Unless they decide to do another origin story. Then we get to enjoy Holland going through all the same scenes with Uncle Ben death & responsibility talks, Peter trying to learn to swing, etc.
Oh God no
Wouldn't that be a trip? The third movie as the origin story. It would almost top the Fast and Furious for worst timeline shenanigans.
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
I think this is just going to end with Disney caving and going back to the old deal or maybe even a deal that that gives Sony some of the merch profits too.
Spiderman is one of the most popular characters in the mcu, Sony's got Disney by the balls and they know it.
What's unfair about it
It's fucking disney and sony, there are no good guys and bad guys here they're both cocks and frankly I don't give a damn which one fucks the other as long as I'm entertained by my comic movies in the end
Last edited by Mcjon01; August 22nd, 2019 at 12:25 AM.
As someone put it to me earlier "If Disney hadn't spent years sticking their dick into copyright law to keep the Mouse out of the public domain we wouldn't be having this discussion. Fuck them all."
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