writing out the routes (discussion)

[lantzblades]

In that case, you'll have to take into consideration the fact

it's nice you're trying to help(I hope that's what you're doing) but the fact is I know the boundries of the characters, I'm not a rookie. go look at Shinji's route I play him straight without any mysterious additions or changes.

and Caster will continue to cause those gas leak incidents.

speculation and nothing more

Sterile as in Hemlock, Caster hates men

an aversion to men because of a bad event is different then actual hatred.

Honestly, Saber and Caster combined can probably defeat any other servant 2vs1.

in theory yes but in theory shiki could kill berserker and we all know that's bull shit.

[Eveonder]

it's nice you're trying to help(I hope that's what you're doing) but the fact is I know the boundries of the characters, I'm not a rookie. go look at Shinji's route I play him straight without any mysterious additions or changes.

Ya, I'm trying to help, it has more influence to complain now than after you've written the fic. At that point, I wouldn't bother to criticize.

speculation and nothing more

Well, Caster did it without Kuzuki's knowledge since she needed prana. Shirou's not much better as a prana supply. Though when Rin confronted Kuzuki, he didn't care, Shirou on the other hand isn't an ex-assassin and would react differently.

an aversion to men because of a bad event is different then actual hatred.

Might not be 'hatred' but she still used that Hemlock according to the Rin perspective interlude.

in theory yes but in theory shiki could kill berserker and we all know that's bull shit.

Sorry, I don't get that reference, which Shiki and which theory? Perhaps that doujin? In canon, it should be impossible.

[lantzblades]

Well, Caster did it without Kuzuki's knowledge since she needed prana.

the major differences here would be

1) shirou's whole attitude toward caster and in general
2) Saber's presence
3) Kojiro's clearly more active role in things as at the emiya house he'd be more then just a guard

these combined elements would alter her choices drastically in regards to omnomnoming on souls.

Might not be 'hatred' but she still used that Hemlock according to the Rin perspective interlude.

rin's more unreliable then shirou narration wise. and hemlock kills anyways...

which Shiki and which theory?

tonho. the idea is because he can instant kill anything then he should be able to do so to berserker. tis bull shit i say.

[Eveonder]

Ah, right, Kojiro's pretty much stuck at the gate, since the gate was used as a catalyst and he is bound to the mountain. You should come up with a workaround for that.

I don't disagree that her choices might change but she still needs a source of prana.

MEoDP can't see death on Servants because they don't have a Gaia concept of death... probably because they're already dead. Shiki can't kill servants unless it's a game or a hax doujin.

[eddyak]

a Gaia concept of death

Facepalm.

There's no such thing as a "gaian concept of death". Not everything under Gaia has the same type of death, Shiki can only see the deaths of things he can understand, and the MEoDP have nothing to do with Gaia.

Shiki can probably see as much of their lines as he could see on the TATARI clones. Probably couldn't see the dots, though, since they can't really be killed- they're already dead.

[Tobias]

the poll finished out and counting out the switches i'm pretty certain (if someone want to check back and correct me feel free) caster won.

that said I'd like you all to tell me what you'd like to see in her route.

a few notes/thoughts, use as you like.

one of the most interesting dynamics is, assuming caster fell for shirou, is her fanatical loyalty and canonical willingness to hide things from her master, so caster might easily take actions she knew shirou wouldnt agree with to protect him.

pretty sure FA could be summoned to leave the gate if he had an actual master and prana support, caster just didnt do it that way because she wanted a guard and personal control of FA's command spells. she would still need to use the gate as a summoning catalyst.

caster is absolutely not used to being put up on a pedastal, let alone having someone else risk their life for her, its always the other way around.

[Eveonder]

Facepalm.

There's no such thing as a "gaian concept of death". Not everything under Gaia has the same type of death, Shiki can only see the deaths of things he can understand, and the MEoDP have nothing to do with Gaia.

Shiki can probably see as much of their lines as he could see on the TATARI clones. Probably couldn't see the dots, though, since they can't really be killed- they're already dead.

What it means is that Gaia does not allow the thing to die. MEODP is limited to "predetermined life span, as in what binds the object to the relevant plane of existence, in other words, the time limit, is seen." Heroic Spirits and Counter Guardians exist outside time. Gaia's concept of death or time limit does not exist. Like how Shiki can't see any lines or points on Arc when the moon is full. But I just realized that Shiki might be able to see the 'class' and cut those sending the actual heroic spirits to the lesser grail. Since Servants or at least their materialization can be destroyed (but still, they're not killed, they're just sent to the lesser grail).

[eddyak]

What it means is that Gaia does not allow the thing to die. MEODP is limited to "predetermined life span, as in what binds the object to the relevant plane of existence, in other words, the time limit, is seen." Heroic Spirits and Counter Guardians exist outside time. Gaia's concept of death or time limit does not exist. Like how Shiki can't see any lines or points on Arc when the moon is full. But I just realized that Shiki might be able to see the 'class' and cut those sending the actual heroic spirits to the lesser grail. Since Servants or at least their materialization can be destroyed (but still, they're not killed, they're just sent to the lesser grail).

The Heroic Spirits in the Throne couldn't be killed, but the copies of them that are called Servants can be. They probably don't have dota, since that's complete and utter death, but the lines where they break down should be visible.

[lantzblades]

one of the most interesting dynamics is, assuming caster fell for shirou, is her fanatical loyalty and canonical willingness to hide things from her master, so caster might easily take actions she knew shirou wouldnt agree with to protect him.

sounds a lot like Saber.

caster is absolutely not used to being put up on a pedastal, let alone having someone else risk their life for her, its always the other way around.

that's be a big factor in the baby face turn here.

[Tobias]

Maybe, but to a far greater extent. Actually I was thinking about how caster hid the fact that she was draining the town for magic from kuzuki because she didn't know if he would approve.


Then he was like lol, you should be killing them, not just leaving them unconscious!

[Mike1984]

Rin has the worst luck, it can't be helped.

Rin also managed to come to the conclusion that that her little sister was just fine despite her being constantly depressed and having purple hair, and plus she spent the last ten years trying to become a true magus at all costs, including her humanity, so I don't think she's really suited to showing Shirou how not to make mind-numbingly stupid decisions....

Caster would probably appreciate his kindness but being Caster, I doubt she wants to put her Shirou at risk

Of course not, but since when has a silly thing like being totally powerless

Rin is also crazy for him. It's just that she's a tsuntsun virign, but even so, she always initiates the H scene.

Not in quite the same way as Sakura is. And, in Sakura's case, the extreme nature of her devotion to him is due to her circumstances rather than his actions theirselves.