Chiron was Ajax's teacher.
He totally could have gotten his hands on Aegis.
This makes a frightening amount of vague sense.
Chiron was Ajax's teacher.
He totally could have gotten his hands on Aegis.
This makes a frightening amount of vague sense.
That's very, very likely, but goddammit I'm trying to be reasonable here!Originally Posted by I3uster
Classical source? If this is true, it's fairly obscure. Even when Xenophon's trying to list as many of the traditions about Chiron's teachings as possible, he doesn't mention Aias.
Not to me. The link between Chiron, Aias and the Aegis being?He totally could have gotten his hands on Aegis.
This makes a frightening amount of vague sense.
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Yo Seika, don't you think Chiron would have been a fantastic cook?!
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It shows up on Google search when I run a Chiron + Ajax search, but the source is admittedly Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(mythology) which doesn't source its claim in any way aside from saying the Iliad said so. The Wiki page on Chiron lists Ajax as one of his students too, but again, unsourced.
Beyond that I just get a lot of miscellaneous, non-academic websites listing them together. So if untrue, it's at least floating around pretty widely.
Last edited by Sunny; December 28th, 2012 at 08:41 PM.
They all seem to be repeating each other, in the circle-jerk of internet sites.
If there is some evidence of this (and it's quite possible there is), I'm just interested to hear where - as I said, it looks like a pretty obscure tradition. I might well be missing something obvious: I hope not, because I've both been doing checking now, and I did a read-through of the Iliad a while back looking for references to Aias, and an apprenticeship to Chiron seems like the sort of thing I should have picked up.
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Honestly, the first link I got, going by the "would-be-awesome-how-could-they-make-this-happen" line of thought, was that Achilles could have gotten the shield because they were bros, and I knew that Chiron was his teacher. So I checked wiki on Ajax to see which died first, and it mentioned that Chiron was his teacher, sending me into the Totally Legit mode.
In retrospect, the original version being silly, both are a leap of logic. Even if Achilles could indeed pick the shield up, he obviously couldn't get it back to Chiron, because he kind of died, so that's that. It would require Chiron to have some skill that gives him every Phantasm that his students have, or something like that.
By the way, wasn't Ajax a could-have-been heroine of Fate? Like, wasn't she a little girl in character material?
That was "Stray Servant". Identity is speculation.
This is news to me.
Unless, of course, you're referring to the orphaned, "stray Servant" who was scrapped at some point in the planning process. We don't know much of her other than that she wielded a sword-and-shield and would have been a rival-of-sorts to Saber.
But before I go running off on a fanon tangent (fangent!), that's just me spitting random kernels. The two might not be related at all.
But Zeus/Athene's Aegis has nothing to do with Aias' shield.
There was a discarded Servant concept, of a girl who used a shield. Some people like to extrapolate that to it being a gender-swapped Aias, because Aias' shield is notable in the Nasuverse. I think they're kinda reaching.By the way, wasn't Ajax a could-have-been heroine of Fate? Like, wasn't she a little girl in character material?
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Well, sorry about that. I assumed they had etymological relation. In conclusion, I was just talking about Ajax's shield.
I'll assume less next time.
I actually was not joking when I asked whether Chiron would be a good cook or not.
Hope Rides With His Godly Ronin/Cowboy Brother In Law
Mmm. That is true. But while it is reaching, it goes a long way towards explaining the existence of Rho Aias in Archer's collection, IMO. It's plausibly a hand-me-down from a scrapped design, given how unlikely it is EMIYA actually ran into it anywhere as canon is forced to claim. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a cut character's NP Nasu didn't want to throw away - though obviously such will never be more than fandom speculation.
Last edited by Sunny; December 28th, 2012 at 09:25 PM.
I bet he can whip up a mean basashi.
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Because it's so likely he ran into literally everything else he's got, right?
Point, but a fair amount of that could be hand-waived by things like recording alot of them from his own exposure to Gilgamesh (assuming that still happens) or things like that. Rho Aias is even less likely than all the historical swords Gil threw around. I'm not saying I buy it completely, because it's still a lot of stretching and idle speculation, but I could see Rho Aias being something Nasu didn't want to throw away when he scrapped a Servant who just happened to use a shield. Not that it matters for much even if it was Stray Servant.
But most of what we see aren't the same things Gil has, they're eventual descendents of the things Gil has.
well that would be because he can see the complete structure of a weapon from just a part of it right? like with the ax-sword. so he probably saw the prototypes Gil has, and weaved that together with the legends he knew about them and the potential he aw in them to get the (degraded version) of the complete thing. or an own design based on that yet, like with Caladbolg 2.
of course, it could also be that EMIYA has so much loot because he sw them in his various exploits as counter guardian.
Hrm, I was misremembering a bit there. ^^; I still think it's fundamentally alot more unusual that Swordguy who records swords would have a shield in the first place, which lends itself to at least a possible guess that it was something Nasu came up with for someone else that he didn't want to waste, but I suppose I can't guess where Archer finds any of his swords any more than you can guess where he found Rho Aias, lol. I'm just a fan of the Stray Servant/Ajax fanon.
Last edited by Sunny; December 28th, 2012 at 09:55 PM.
wasnt it said during the scene that he found a piece of the original rho aias and usd it a s abasis for his own version? and that the original rho aias is not the lasershield he makes, his rho aias is basically rho aias 2 just liek caladbolg 2 is not really caladbolg any more.
They are all Greek and stuff.
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